nkops
Posts: 2161
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

New Jersey To Shut Down?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:24 am

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/n...aking/story/6489848p-6341671c.html


New Jersey gov't shut down at 0930 because our government was unable to reach a budget.

This will have a huge effect on tourism if it doesn't get solved because the casino's cannot operate without state funded inspectors (who are considered non-essential). This will be interesting to watch. The other problem is that all state funded construction (road, airport, etc.) will immediately cease.

They picked a great weekend for this!!
:evil:
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Nkops (Thread starter):
They picked a great weekend for this!!

Definitely - at least they can say they turned NJ into the Land of the Free-from-gambling for time being.  duck   Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:56 am

Shocking, a Democrat not wanting to tax and spend. What's the world coming to?
International Homo of Mystery
 
dw747400
Posts: 1091
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:24 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Nkops (Thread starter):
They picked a great weekend for this!!

The reports I've seen state that tourism-related operations will continue operating until 5 July.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Nkops (Thread starter):
This will have a huge effect on tourism

More importantly, it makes the New Jersey government look like a bunch of idiots, also possibly affecting tourism.

Hope they get their shit together soon.
Crye me a river
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12502
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:57 am

About the only departments that will be open will be the State Police, Forest Fire, Child Protection (DYFS) and other public safety agencies. The problem is that the budget has to be balanced (like all other states), they cannot borrow any more, the state owes a lot of back state employee pension funding (about a $1 Billion short?) and the refusal of all state Assembly and Senate members (as don't want to lose their seats) to raise the Sales Tax to 7% from 6% and extending it to more products. Add to this the increasing demands on states to fund homeland security, growing state employee union power, increasing mandates without funding by the Federal Government, way too high local/school property taxes (hurting seniors, others on fixed incomes and a home), demands on funding for major city school systems, no one wanting the state to cut spending to their interests and you have a real crises that has to be dealt with.
It looks like a hot summer in NJ for at least the next week or so.
 
nkops
Posts: 2161
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 4):
More importantly, it makes the New Jersey government look like a bunch of idiots,

That happened way before this!!!! Remember when our last govenor went on national TV to come out of the closet and admit he had an affair with one of his staff members.....

The worse part to me is the closing of the state forest and state parks, thats the one thing NJ has that is good!!
:evil:
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 6):
That happened way before this!!!!

True. I was trying to be sensitive to the fact.  Big grin

Hopefully things will get straightened out soon. Otherwise, there will be a handful of politicians looking for new jobs.
Crye me a river
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
Shocking, a Democrat not wanting to tax and spend. What's the world coming to?

Actually, I believe impasse was created by a democratic governor asking for an increase in the sales tax rate, and the legislature is refusing.

Seems to me there are two ways to cover a budget deficit - increase taxes (Corzine's way) or cut spending.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 8):
Seems to me there are two ways to cover a budget deficit - increase taxes (Corzine's way) or cut spending.

Yup, when I made my post I was looking at the bottom of the article where the Assembly Speaker, also a Democrat, had proposed spending cuts and alternative sources of tax revenue as part of the overall budget package.
International Homo of Mystery
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:39 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 8):
Seems to me there are two ways to cover a budget deficit - increase taxes (Corzine's way) or cut spending.

Yup, when I made my post I was looking at the bottom of the article where the Assembly Speaker, also a Democrat, had proposed spending cuts and alternative sources of tax revenue as part of the overall budget package.

Sorry - thought you were referring to Corzine. Didn't he campaign on a promise not to raise taxes?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:44 am

Maybe New Jersey should issue IOU's to the state employeesand vendors like California did in the early 90's? Sure fire way to catch the attention of everyone and resolve the problem.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
Didn't he campaign on a promise not to raise taxes?

According to this summary of his campaign promises:

http://www.apatheticvoter.com/Campaign%20Promises%20-%20NJ.htm

... he only promised to "reform the gross receipts tax". (Whatever that means in politicspeak.  Wink )
International Homo of Mystery
 
Roger136913
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:19 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:57 am

Looks like the Casinos are ordered to close on the 5th as well......... Talk about taking more money away from the State and hurting alot of wrokers  Sad
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:20 pm

While were on the topic of Jersey, is New Jersey really a bad state? I hear all the jokes about Jersey being full of rude people, the state smelling like a landfill ect. I've been there and didnt see any of that although I was in Newark. I also got a lot of friends from NJ and they are cool as shit.

-Delta767300ER
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 14):

There are bad areas (Irvington, Paterson, Camden), but the majority of the state is really nice, from the Pine Barrens and the shore down south, to the highlands in the north. The refineries and factories in the northeast and crime in Camden give the state a bad name.

Unfortunately, most of these bad places are right on the NJ Turnpike corridor, which is all most people see of NJ.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
CaptainJon
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:21 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 15):
Unfortunately, most of these bad places are right on the NJ Turnpike corridor, which is all most people see of NJ.

thats why there is the Parkway which goes through some bad areas but for hte most part is a pretty ride.
 
LFutia
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:04 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:18 pm

Camden is the worst. Passaic county isnt that bad. Irvington near Newark Airport is pretty rough as well as Elizabeth.

Leo
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
nkops
Posts: 2161
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 14):
While were on the topic of Jersey, is New Jersey really a bad state?

Living here my whole life (stop laughing)... NJ is not that bad. Of course, there are bad parts , but for the most part it is nice. Lots of farms and the best tomatoes anywhere!!! Even North Jersey in the mountains is beautiful, especially if you like skiing or hiking.
:evil:
 
corey07850
Posts: 2335
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:33 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:52 am

I'm not complaining... My driver's license was due for renewal by the end of June, and it got extended to the end of July since the DMV's all shut down  Smile
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 13):
Looks like the Casinos are ordered to close on the 5th as well

The state owns the casinos?

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12502
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 20):
The state owns the casinos?

No, the state doesn't own any casinos, only regulates them. The Casino Control Commission and it's enforcement officers are a state authority and officers have to be on the premises of all casinos at all times they are open to monitor operations. They are not considered 'vital' like other law enforcement, public health and safety agencies.
As of late Monday, nothing is happening, and the Governor has ordered the Legisature to be in session tomorrow, July 4th. Nobody wants to raise any taxes or make funding cuts.
To me the quickest and best answer would be to raise the tax on Gasoline or apply the state sales tax of 6% on gasoline (not diesel as mainly used for commercial vehicles) with the new income going to the general funds. That would raise our gasoline prices about $.18/gallon, to about $ 3.15-3.29/gallon, similar to prices paid by NY State residents and close to the national average. It could also encourage conservation by reducing gas demand to the benefit to the enviroment.
 
slider
Posts: 6818
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 8):
Seems to me there are two ways to cover a budget deficit - increase taxes (Corzine's way) or cut spending.

I'm glad they have to spend their July 4 holiday in legislature. I hope the air conditioning goes out in the state hall. I hope they fight, argue, scrap, bitch and moan and then they'll realize what average Americans have to do in balancing their budgets....guess what?

We have to reduce spending. Average Americans can't simply snap their fingers and increase revenue.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 21):
To me the quickest and best answer would be to raise the tax on Gasoline or apply the state sales tax of 6% on gasoline (not diesel as mainly used for commercial vehicles) with the new income going to the general funds. That would raise our gasoline prices about $.18/gallon, to about $ 3.15-3.29/gallon, similar to prices paid by NY State residents and close to the national average. It could also encourage conservation by reducing gas demand to the benefit to the enviroment.

Oh yeah, raise taxes to equal the misery in a neighboring state. that's an insane idea!

the answer is never to raise taxes. Raising the gas tax hurts average people (again).

REDUCE SPENDING. PERIOD.

I hope the deadlock continues. There's nothing so unnecessary as a "nonessential" government employee.
 
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KaiGywer
Crew
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RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:08 am

This brings a flashback from last year, when the Minnesota legislature pulled the same stunt.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
slider
Posts: 6818
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:15 am

According to the AP and an article by Tom Hester today, NJ has the nation's highest property taxes, 5th higest corporate taxes and is #15 and 16 respectively in income and sales taxes.

72% of the NJ budget is spent for entitlement, social, welfare programs!!!

Corzine is out of his mind.

Gotta love it- the Democrats want to raise taxes on freaking Independence Day. Too funny.

There's instant campaign fodder....
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 24):
According to the AP and an article by Tom Hester today, NJ has the nation's highest property taxes, 5th higest corporate taxes and is #15 and 16 respectively in income and sales taxes.

72% of the NJ budget is spent for entitlement, social, welfare programs!!!

Corzine is out of his mind.

Gotta love it- the Democrats want to raise taxes on freaking Independence Day. Too funny.

Guess I can cross New Jersey off the list of potential retirement locations.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
slider
Posts: 6818
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 25):
Guess I can cross New Jersey off the list of potential retirement locations.

Yeah!! 98% urban, taxed up the ass, yeah, perfect place to settle down.

And NJ is getting lapped by other states in terms of companies that are moving there, HQ there, less onerous taxes, regulations, traffic, and quality of life.

Corzine better figure it out that you can't raise taxes and reduce spending and call it a cut. What a moron.

But like lemmings, the idiots in NJ never demand better. So they get what they get. Kinda like our national dynamic.
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2621
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 26):
Corzine better figure it out that you can't raise taxes and reduce spending and call it a cut. What a moron.

But like lemmings, the idiots in NJ never demand better. So they get what they get. Kinda like our national dynamic.

Okay, as a citizen of NJ, I take offense to your comments. In my opinion, Corzine is an excellent governor, and the problems we're facing are not a result of his actions. I was reading a great deal about the situation, and he inherited all of the state's financial problems when he began his term as governor. There was nothing he could do to prevent hard decisions from having to be made; he is doing the best he can given the situation.
 
nkops
Posts: 2161
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 27):
he is doing the best he can given the situation.

That is correct... it is still left over from the Whitman and McGreevey era's.... the problem is Corzine is the first one with the balls to try to find a solution and pull our state out of debt.

Anyway, the update is that the casino's will shut down as of 0800 Wed. morning. The lottery has already been stopped, and alot of people told not to show up to work tomorrow. Also, ACY (unlike EWR) is operated by a state authority, so I don't know what kind of effect that will have on stuff.
:evil:
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 28):
That is correct... it is still left over from the Whitman and McGreevey era's.... the problem is Corzine is the first one with the balls to try to find a solution and pull our state out of debt.

So does the democratic solution always involve raising taxes? Why doesn't Corzine cut services?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
nkops
Posts: 2161
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 29):
So does the democratic solution always involve raising taxes? Why doesn't Corzine cut services

Yes... it does (I'm Republican)... I don't know what services he could cut, but I would think with even cutting services, there would still be more needed. (Yes, this state is that much in debt.) However, I think stopping a great revenue source like the lottery and casino's isn't going to help things
:evil:
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12502
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 28):
That is correct... it is still left over from the Whitman and McGreevey era's.... the problem is Corzine is the first one with the balls to try to find a solution and pull our state out of debt.

Both of the former Governors and the assembly bought labor peace of state workers by raises and not being realistic as to benefits, especially retirement benefits. Neither of them or their respective parties would make the cuts they really needed while reducing taxes to keep getting reelected. They all remember what happened to Gov. Florio, a one term governor who basically got booted out in 1993 due to correctly raising taxes.
The shutdown will really hit hard tomorrow with the Casinos, state parks, and many agencies shut down. Worse, the affects will start to affect other businesses like car dealers will be prevented from getting new titles, businesses that need to consult with state agencies for license renewals will be screwed, people getting mortgages will not be able to get them due to the need for state involvement. Unlike NY State for example, NJ cannot pass continueances or extensions of the budget year until the budget is passed and operate all agencies.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 30):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 29):
So does the democratic solution always involve raising taxes? Why doesn't Corzine cut services

Yes... it does (I'm Republican)... I don't know what services he could cut, but I would think with even cutting services, there would still be more needed. (Yes, this state is that much in debt.) However, I think stopping a great revenue source like the lottery and casino's isn't going to help things

Here's the deal. If the voters aren't willing to pay for the services the state is providing, then services should be cut. It's really that simple. If services are cut, and the people complain, politicians can then explain that taxes need to be raised, and the choice will be theirs.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
slider
Posts: 6818
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 27):
my opinion, Corzine is an excellent governor, and the problems we're facing are not a result of his actions.

Doesn't matter. And no matter how altruistically one may think he's acting, he is legally duty bound to close state government based on the NJ constitution. He doesn't have a choice.

And if he was such a hotshot, he wouldn't be proposing new spending. Period!

If he truly wants to be a hard-liner, then be one. But from a non-Jersey observer, it sure sounds as if he's trying to play both sides.

And now today, the casinos stand empty. Closed. During peak season. More state revenue disappearing. Penny wise, dollar foolish.

The bureaucrats never learn.
 
pilotsmoe
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 5:21 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 24):

72% of the NJ budget is spent for entitlement, social, welfare programs!!!

If they keep the casinos closed long enough, I'll be on some of these programs! Time to cash the welfare check!
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: New Jersey To Shut Down?

Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:37 am

Well, here's the "deal" that has reopened New Jersey state government.

Quote:
The deal will increase the state sales tax from 6 percent to 7 percent and use half the $1.1 billion that it will raise to help lower property taxes, which are among the highest in the nation. It allows the possibility that, in future years, the entire increase will go to property tax relief.

"I honestly think that in the end with the agreement that we have reached, our state and more importantly our citizens are all emerging as winners," said Senate President Richard J. Codey.

Democrats who control the state Assembly had opposed the sales tax increase, which would cost the average New Jersey family an estimated $275 per year.

"This is a very, very fair resolution: good for the state, good for the taxpayers," said Assembly Speaker Joseph Roberts Jr., who had been the main opponent of the sales tax hike.

Republicans, the minority party in New Jersey, blasted the agreement.

"Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not the solution to our property tax crisis," said Senate Minority Leader Leonard Lance.

Why the complicated raise the sales tax, but partially offset it with lower property taxes? Why not just limit the increase in the sales tax?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography

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