AerospaceFan
Topic Author
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:09 pm

CNN reports in breaking news that it has confirmed that former Enron Chairman Kenneth Lay has died.

The news of Lay's death was also carried by Fox News Channel and MSNBC.

The cause of death was reportedly a heart attack.

More as events may warrant.

[Edited 2006-07-05 16:28:13]
What's fair is fair.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: CNN: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:12 pm

Heard that too, no link yet. But it was on TV.

Sadly, he won't get to serve his sentence . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:13 pm

There will be some schadenfreude going on here, but I feel bad for his family.

I hope that justice carries on, and I'm content to leave his in the hands of God.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ZakHH
Posts: 1570
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:32 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:15 pm

I don't intend to sound tasteless, but if he was convicted, how could he die in Aspen? Do they have a prison there?
Tired of a.net? Join a friendly aviation community!
 
GDC2006
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:15 pm

What is the mood over in the US like about Ken Lay?

A fallen hero or simply a criminal?

Either way justice has been served perhaps in one way or another.....

GC
Trust a woman? How can you trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die?
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Did the prosecution show a death photo of him like how the US Military did with the Al-Quada leader?? LOL!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:17 pm

He wasn't yet in prision. He was awaiting sentencing. And he was no fallen hero, rather a symbol of corporate greed and arrogance. I don't think people wanted him dead (ex Enron workers, maybe) but few will shed any tears.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:18 pm

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4025339.html

The sonofabitch had a heart attack! Can you beat it?

I would normally say this is karma, but real karma would have been at least serving a stint in general population pound-you-in-the-ass prison.

There's gonna be a lot of people spitting on your grave, you bastard!

Anyone think it wasn't a heart attack? Maybe he offed himself.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting GDC2006 (Reply 4):
What is the mood over in the US like about Ken Lay?

A fallen hero or simply a criminal?

He's a criminal who defined the worst stereotypes of excess and fraud. He served himself to the highest level of luxury and comfort at the expense of people to whom he returned no value in the end while lying to them.

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 6):
I don't think people wanted him dead (ex Enron workers, maybe)

There's some former stockholders and pensioners who may be irritated that he went 'too easy'. See Sliders comments.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
MattMSP767
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:28 pm

Wow, I would have thought he would have commited suicide.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:28 pm

"ENRON'S KEN LAY DIES: 'HIS HEART SIMPLY GAVE OUT'"

How can something give out that you do not even have!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:38 pm

Best thing for that asshole. He got off easy. What about the scores of familes that are broke? That had their life savings stolen from them? He was the worst possible theif imaginable.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
MKEdude
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:55 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:38 pm

Ken Lay dodges justice for the final time. I'm just sorry he won't rot in prision.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
dc10s4ever
Posts: 700
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:46 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:42 pm

Actually it is a possibility he has faked it. He has the money, to pull it off and disappear out of the country for ever. This has been done before with Elvis and JFK.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 7):
I would normally say this is karma, but real karma would have been at least serving a stint in general population pound-you-in-the-ass prison.

No way he'd have served his time in general population at a max facility. He'd have been sent to a country club like Danville.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:01 am

It's too bad he didn't die in a jail or some flea infested cheap hotel on the bad side of Houston. Many hope he had a deeply painful heart attack, but most probably he died in his sleep.
The house in Aspen as well as all but a tiny amount of his assets (for his wife's retirement funds) should go to the retired employees of Enron who lost their pensions.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
There will be some schadenfreude going on here, but I feel bad for his family.

I don't, I hate to say. They lived in lavish comfort because of his crimes. While others had their whole life savings wiped out, this guy and his family STILL had millions to live on. I don't feel sorry for them at all. They knew what he was-a thief-and they enjoyed life because of it.

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 3):
I don't intend to sound tasteless, but if he was convicted, how could he die in Aspen? Do they have a prison there?

He was awaiting sentencing, so he remained free, which is not unusual.

Well, looks like the Good Lord exacted his own sentence on him, and he's having to explain himself today, before taking the elevator to the bottom floor.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 14):
No way he'd have served his time in general population at a max facility. He'd have been sent to a country club like Danville.

Yeah, I know. But the prospect would have been nice. Ken Lay being someone's bitch. And his cellmate Bubba tattooing tits on him.  rotfl 
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6576
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 7):
Anyone think it wasn't a heart attack? Maybe he offed himself.

Hrrmmmm, What fortuitus timing. Wonder if Skilling is looking into the heart attack route.
Made from jets!
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Sadly, he won't get to serve his sentence . . .

Well, depending on your belief system, he might be serving one "hell" of a sentence.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
CNN reports in breaking news that it has confirmed that former Enron Chairman Kenneth Lay has died.

I'm surprised that nobody has blamed Bush or Cheney for this!
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 19):
Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
CNN reports in breaking news that it has confirmed that former Enron Chairman Kenneth Lay has died.

I'm surprised that nobody has blamed Bush or Cheney for this!

Give it time, someone undoubtedly will.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:20 am

It saves the taxpayers the cost of keeping him in prison.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
HOMER71
Posts: 2123
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:56 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 13):
Actually it is a possibility he has faked it. He has the money, to pull it off and disappear out of the country for ever. This has been done before with Elvis and JFK.

What kind of a lame-brained plan is that?

Sincerely,
D.B. Cooper
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
Quoting Pope (Reply 19):
Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
CNN reports in breaking news that it has confirmed that former Enron Chairman Kenneth Lay has died.

I'm surprised that nobody has blamed Bush or Cheney for this!

Give it time, someone undoubtedly will.

Their fault? Hardly. But Bush should be at the funeral. I mean, Bush did to shareholders at company that he was at what Lay did at Enron. On a smaller scale, but he still made off with about 600 thou with his rip-offs.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
Their fault? Hardly. But Bush should be at the funeral. I mean, Bush did to shareholders at company that he was at what Lay did at Enron. On a smaller scale, but he still made off with about 600 thou with his rip-offs.

Pope - See, I told you!
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
Their fault? Hardly. But Bush should be at the funeral. I mean, Bush did to shareholders at company that he was at what Lay did at Enron. On a smaller scale, but he still made off with about 600 thou with his rip-offs.

Pope - See, I told you!

Hellooooooooooo! Halls? Did you not read the first 3 words? Let me put them in bold and in caps. "THEIR FAULT? HARDLY."

It's NOT Bush's fault, Sherlock, but he's no different than Ken Lay. Get a clue, and read it right.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
lijnden
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 1:34 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:37 am

Who says he really died? He could be in some sort of witness/rebuilding program from the US Government. Probably he had some 'too-hot-to-handle' issues that forced a deal. These guys are always very prepared in case it goes wrong.

And if he is dead, one must wonder if he did not die (read: get killed) under suspicious circumstances.
Be kind to animals! Next trip: ORF-ORD-NRT-IAH-ORF
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
Pope - See, I told you!

It's like fishing in a stocked pond. You throw the bait and they bite every time.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:45 am

I would get paid for that funeral upfront!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:46 am

And no need to cremate as he is already going to HELL!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
learpilot
Posts: 783
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 11:07 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 26):
And if he is dead, one must wonder if he did not die (read: get killed) under suspicious circumstances.

If that is in fact the case (which I'd bet my life savings it isn't), I'm amazed it took that long.

What baffles me is that his wife apparantly owns some boutique in Aspen. I can't believe it hasn't been burned to the ground by some ex-Enron employee. But then again, it is Aspen. They probably put a police officer outside full time.  Yeah sure
Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
 
nitrohelper
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:32 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:56 am

I wish he would have got sentenced and taken away in irons first. A few years in prison, and then a heart attack so we don't have to feed him. It would have been better for other CEOs to hear & think about his sentence.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Learpilot (Reply 30):
What baffles me is that his wife apparantly owns some boutique in Aspen. I can't believe it hasn't been burned to the ground by some ex-Enron employee. But then again, it is Aspen. They probably put a police officer outside full time.

I thought his wife had a consignment shop in the Houston area that she was selling off stuff?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:04 am

The name was Jus' Stuff not sure if it still operates or not?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:16 am

 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 27):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
Pope - See, I told you!

It's like fishing in a stocked pond. You throw the bait and they bite every time.

Unfortunately, all you got back was algie, Pope, because you're not bright enough, apparently, to READ WHAT I WROTE!
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
Their fault? Hardly. But Bush should be at the funeral. I mean, Bush did to shareholders at company that he was at what Lay did at Enron. On a smaller scale, but he still made off with about 600 thou with his rip-offs.

Pope - See, I told you!

Hellooooooooooo! Halls? Did you not read the first 3 words? Let me put them in bold and in caps. "THEIR FAULT? HARDLY."

It's NOT Bush's fault, Sherlock, but he's no different than Ken Lay. Get a clue, and read it right.

I read it right. You tried to qualify what was an an indirect slam at Bush, and now you are trying to wiggle your way out of it.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 36):
I read it right. You tried to qualify what was an an indirect slam at Bush, and now you are trying to wiggle your way out of it.

No, you didn't read it right. Bush had nothing to do with it. Nothing. You seem to miss that part.

But as for slamming Bush, it wasn't indirect-it was direct. He ripped off stockholders and investors at an oil venture he was involved in, and got away with about 600 thou.

You don't seem to have a problem with that, do you? Why am I not surprised.

Either way, he should be at the funeral of "Kenny boy",
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
But as for slamming Bush, it wasn't indirect-it was direct. He ripped off stockholders and investors at an oil venture he was involved in, and got away with about 600 thou.

And the liberal hypocrisy rears its ugly head once again. If I remember correctly there's a certain junior Senator from NY that made 300k on inside commodity information. I guess that making a 300k profit illegally is ok but once you cross into 600k then it's all wrong.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
You don't seem to have a problem with that, do you? Why am I not surprised.

Why should Bush be at his funeral? Was he an Enron employee or board member? Defendant in the Enron trial?

For that matter, while I am glad Lay was convicted, and regret the pain Lay inflicted on Enron employees, for most of them, greed was just as responsible for their financial downfall.

Anyone who puts most or all of their financial eggs into one basket, and enjoys stratospheric return on that one investment, deserves what they get. Long before Enron, my dad - a blue collar worker, mind you - if it looks too good to be true - like a double digit annual return on investment - it probably is.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
saxdiva
Posts: 2329
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 6:51 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 39):
Why should Bush be at his funeral? Was he an Enron employee or board member? Defendant in the Enron trial?

The Bush family had personal ties with the Lays that went back to GB senior. I can't imagine they'd risk the political fallout, though I've been wrong before.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 40):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
Unfortunately, all you got back was algie

Naw. I think I caught the a.net equivalent of the BIG mouthed bASS!

ROTFL. I think you have it bass ackwards, Pope.

And, pray tell, why did YOU bring up Bush's name in the first place?

Well, we all know the Bush's and Lay's of the world are your poster-boys for the modern right, so I guess you coudln't resist.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Saxdiva (Reply 41):
The Bush family had personal ties with the Lays that went back to GB senior. I can't imagine they'd risk the political fallout, though I've been wrong before.

I have personal ties with people who die, and I don't always attend their funerals. Falcon's suggestion still makes no sense whatsoever.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
And, pray tell, why did YOU bring up Bush's name in the first place?

Maybe to see who'd take the bait?  biggrin 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AR385
Posts: 6735
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 39):
Lay inflicted on Enron employees, for most of them, greed was just as responsible for their financial downfall.

Anyone who puts most or all of their financial eggs into one basket, and enjoys stratospheric return on that one investment, deserves what they get. Long before Enron, my dad - a blue collar worker, mind you - if it looks too good to be true - like a double digit annual return on investment - it probably is.

What do you mean for most of them? Nobody deserves what they got. You have no clue about ENRON'S compensation program. And not everyone knows much about portfolio investment theory. For its last three years ENRON's stock price kept rising, so for most of us it made sense to hold our savings on the different programs offered by ENRON based on its stock.

I, however, never held to ENRON stock whenever it was given to me as a bonus. It's a bad idea to have your savings invested in the company you work for, but most people, secretaries, floor administrators etc. don't have an MBA. It was as much a surprise to us as it was for the rest of the world when ENRON went kaput.

You also have to remember that when we started hearing rumors about ENRON going to the dumps, we were unable to sell our stock due to a technicality in our yearly compensation revision. That whole month the stock was crashing the only thing we could do was watch as our savings slowly disappeared.

At the same time, Skilling, Lay, Fastow and some others were happily selling away millions of their own stock. That is greed and inhumane behavior.

I'm not glad Lay died. Nobody deserves such a wish. But he was more than your common thief. He was someone who did not care about the pain, suffering and anxiety he and his cronies inflicted on his employees.

So please, don't even compare us to the guy by saying it was our fault for being greedy.

I am thankful I did not loose much
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 44):
I'm not glad Lay died. Nobody deserves such a wish. But he was more than your common thief. He was someone who did not care about the pain, suffering and anxiety he and his cronies inflicted on his employees.

As an aside to all the money issues that people go thru, I have been a little surprise over the bad money thrown into the current real estate (ka)boom, where a lot of people, professionals included, have no idea how to invest money.

The financial markets depend a good deal on trust, where the value of the stocks has trust about the company's finances behind its value. The books were cooked, therefore the stock value was cooked. But very few people knew this, and therefore had no idea of the debacle to come.

I feel sorry for those Enron employees that suffered and lost money thru the collapse. As for Ken Lay, apparently his judgement has already come and gone.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
And, pray tell, why did YOU bring up Bush's name in the first place?

See Reply #27
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 44):
I, however, never held to ENRON stock whenever it was given to me as a bonus. It's a bad idea to have your savings invested in the company you work for, but most people, secretaries, floor administrators etc. don't have an MBA. It was as much a surprise to us as it was for the rest of the world when ENRON went kaput.

You also have to remember that when we started hearing rumors about ENRON going to the dumps, we were unable to sell our stock due to a technicality in our yearly compensation revision. That whole month the stock was crashing the only thing we could do was watch as our savings slowly disappeared.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only stock any Enron employee had to hold was the employer discretionary award granted by Enron to 401k participants. All other Enron stock grants could immediately be sold. Right?

Therefore, any Enron employee holding Enron stock in their 401k assumed the very same risk that the stock would lose value that any other investor who purchased the stock assumed.

While the 401k lock out period did coincide with the collapse of Enron any employee could have sold the stock before the lock out period took effect. If I'm not mistaken ERISA regulations require a 30 day warning period before any lock out. While my heart goes out to people who lost money in this, I think what Halls120 is getting at is that the greed of many (not all) Enron employees led them to put all their 401k holdings in one investment (Enron stock). That's just a stupid decision regardless of what investment option you choose as the portfolio has no diversification.

Had employees done the rational thing and diversified their portfolios the maximum they would have lost would have been the dollar value of the discretionary 401k contributions made by Enron to its 401k participants. Instead, as they saw the stock rise they placed a greater and greater amount of their holdings in this one investment vehicle. They became consumed by greed.

Now the notion that all these people lost fortunes is sort of misleading. Until you liquidate a position you don't really have the fortune. Therefore, if as is now widely known, the stock was never worth the $90+/share it reached at its peak, these paper Enron millionares really never had the millions of dollars to lose.

I think the one thing that the government could do to address this sort of problem going forward is to catagorically exclude companies from allowing their own 401k plans to hold their own stock.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 44):
What do you mean for most of them? Nobody deserves what they got. You have no clue about ENRON'S compensation program. And not everyone knows much about portfolio investment theory. For its last three years ENRON's stock price kept rising, so for most of us it made sense to hold our savings on the different programs offered by ENRON based on its stock.

Please provide a link to one legitimate financial adviser/web site that advises its OK to keep all your retirement savings in one basket, and I'll reconsider my position on this issue.

My dad had a high school education, but he knew better than to risk his retirement the way Enron employees did.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 44):
It's a bad idea to have your savings invested in the company you work for, but most people, secretaries, floor administrators etc. don't have an MBA.

You don't need an MBA to know you don't invest solely in the company you work for.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 44):
It was as much a surprise to us as it was for the rest of the world when ENRON went kaput.

And those double digit returns on investment weren't a clue?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:23 am

Wonder if he killed himself?  confused 

Karmas a bitch.  no 
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC: Ken Lay Has Died

Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 44):
It was as much a surprise to us as it was for the rest of the world when ENRON went kaput.

Anyone looking at the entity's statement of cash flows could, would and did see this coming. IMO, analyst focus too much on income statement earnings (both pre- and post-Enron). Instead of GAAP earnings focus on cash flow from continuing operations. That's a metric that is very hard to screw with.

At the end of the day you've got to pay your bills. You can either borrow it, raise it through equity sales or earn it through your operations. Companies with huge income statement earnings and negative operating cash flows are destined for trouble.

Those who didn't see it coming where just drinking the kool-aid.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: scbriml, T prop, Yahoo [Bot] and 35 guests