Mir
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Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:32 am

The Olympics have started to get a little more attention, but other than that, it really seems like the US could care less about playing other countries in tournaments. Whereas pretty much everywhere else in the world it´s a huge thing.

Of course, it would help if the two biggest sports in the US were played in other countries (yes, I know baseball is played elsewhere, but still a very small number of countries - and even then the WBC wasn´t given the attention it deserved).

I´m just wondering why, since the atmosphere here in Munich for the World Cup was fantastic.

-Mir
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bill142
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:35 am

The Baseball World Series is a bit of a joke in naming terms considering that teams from outside the American Leauges can't compete. Hardly the world if you ask me.
 
texdravid
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:43 am

Americans only like international competition if they win. All the time. Convincingly.

Games that America sucks in, Americans don't care about.

Plain and simple.
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Bobster2
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:43 am

I think there are some foreign golfers on the PGA tour. Does that count?

All I can think of is the U.S. vs Soviet Union hockey "miracle". And the Tour de France is moderately popular, at least more than soccer.
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travelin man
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:45 am

What do you mean "Americans don't like international competition"?

Don't like playing or don't like watching?

It would be nice if you could back up that sweeping generalization with some facts. Frankly, it is American broadcasting rights that make the Olympics even remotely profitable. And those rights are based on the large American viewership levels.

What other large "international competitions" are there besides the Olympics and the World Cup? The whole "Soccer is not popular with Americans" has been beaten to death.

Any other examples of where we do not "like" international competition? The Goodwill Games? The Special Olympics? The Commonwealth Games?

What, exactly, are you talking about?
 
pbottenb
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
The Olympics have started to get a little more attention, but other than that, it really seems like the US could care less about playing other countries in tournaments. Whereas pretty much everywhere else in the world it´s a huge thing.

Of course, it would help if the two biggest sports in the US were played in other countries (yes, I know baseball is played elsewhere, but still a very small number of countries - and even then the WBC wasn´t given the attention it deserved).

I´m just wondering why, since the atmosphere here in Munich for the World Cup was fantastic.

Huh? The Olympics are HUGE here - and have been since almost the beginning. US cities have been chosen to host the the Summer Olympics 4 times and the Winter Olympics 4 times (total of 8). This is the list of the countries where cities were chosen by the IOC to host the Olympics (that were actually held):
Country # Olympics Hosted (winter/Summer)
United States 8
France 5
Canada 3
Germany 3
Great Britain 3
Greece 3
Italy 3
Japan 3
Australia 2
Austria 2
Norway 2
Switzerland 2
Belgium 1
Finland 1
Holland 1
Korea 1
Mexico 1
Russia 1
Spain 1
Sweden 1
Yugoslavia 1
China 0 (1 after 2008)

US Cities would never have been chosen so often if Americans did not like international competition...

IMHO the US pays ALOT of attention to the Olympics. This is why US TV Networks spend BILLION$ on the rights to televise, because the Olympics are so Popular here. In the US an Olympic medal winner (especially a gold medal winner) becomes a national hero and often can never work again if desired.....
 
halls120
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 4):
It would be nice if you could back up that sweeping generalization with some facts. Frankly, it is American broadcasting rights that make the Olympics even remotely profitable. And those rights are based on the large American viewership levels.

Excellent point. The Olympics would be a small sideshow without US TV dollars.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
StarAC17
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 1):
The Baseball World Series is a bit of a joke in naming terms considering that teams from outside the American Leauges can't compete. Hardly the world if you ask me.

It's called the World Series because a newspaper called "The World" sponsered it and the name suck. Also the best baseball, hockey and basketball players usually play in North America anyway so the team that wins probably is still the best in the world. Its the same with good soccer players in North America play in Europe because the market is much better there.
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eatmybologna
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:04 pm

And don't forget the Ryder cup. Not sure if it is US vs. world or Europe. Anyway, good international competition and very popular on both sides of the pond.

E-M-B
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bill142
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:44 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 7):
It's called the World Series because a newspaper called "The World" sponsered it and the name suck.

Thats interesting. I didn't know that.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 7):
Also the best baseball, hockey and basketball players usually play in North America anyway so the team that wins probably is still the best in the world. Its the same with good soccer players in North America play in Europe because the market is much better there.

I think it has more to do with the market then all the best players going there. You are correct in saying that the best players go there, but thats because a market exists and the interest in the sport is high enough for fans to come out and pay top dollar to see them play which in turn, lines their pocket. If they could achieve that in their own country they would probably stay.
 
FlyUSCG
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:18 pm

We have entire leagues boasting around 30 teams in baseball, football, hockey and basketball. We dont need international competition because we have MORE THAN ENOUGH here. Plus in the sports we care about, we would kick the crap out of any team the world could muster. Europe and the rest of the worlds countries dont have the numbers or economies to host huge leagues in many sports so therefore their ONLY competition is international.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Why Don�t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:24 pm

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
it really seems like the US could care less about playing other countries in tournaments.

I would take that a bit more relaxed. US-American successes in cycling and in skiing are quite impressive, having in memory how relatively few US-Americans can be seen on bicycles, and how relatively few US-Americans actually are skiing. And I remember big US-teams participating in Olympics, the stream of them almost NOT ending. And their team in the World Cup in fact was not that bad, given the relatively low role of Football in the USA, where American-Football and Baseball and Basketball dominate.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Why Don�t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 1):
World Series

to name domestic competitions "World Series" indeed is a rather weird and queer way to conduct the sports "business" !  Big grin
 
N1120A
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:31 pm

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
Of course, it would help if the two biggest sports in the US were played in other countries (yes, I know baseball is played elsewhere, but still a very small number of countries - and even then the WBC wasn´t given the attention it deserved).

NASCAR and Football  Silly? Given that Basketball is generally considered bigger than Baseball and it is played at a high level in other countries, I would disagree with the assertion that the two biggest aren't played elsewhere. Further, it isn't a "very small number" of countries that also play baseball at a high level, and they are pretty spread out geographically.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 1):
The Baseball World Series is a bit of a joke in naming terms considering that teams from outside the American Leauges can't compete. Hardly the world if you ask me.

Well, MLB does have a Canadian team  Wink

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 2):
Games that America sucks in, Americans don't care about.

I disagree only because we don't suck at anything particularly.

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 3):
And the Tour de France is moderately popular, at least more than soccer.

The Tour WAS popular until Lance retired, and mildly popular when Le Mond did his thing. This year, no one cares. Further, soccer is the number one youth sport in the US

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
Excellent point. The Olympics would be a small sideshow without US TV dollars.

Maybe, maybe not. The Olympics are set up to rely on US TV dollars, but look how well the World Cup does.

Quoting Eatmybologna (Reply 8):
And don't forget the Ryder cup. Not sure if it is US vs. world or Europe. Anyway, good international competition and very popular on both sides of the pond.

US v. Europe. The President's Cup is US v. Rest of the World.
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KROC
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
Excellent point. The Olympics would be a small sideshow without US TV dollars.

Maybe, maybe not. The Olympics are set up to rely on US TV dollars, but look how well the World Cup does.

The Olympics and the World Cup are like comparing Apples and Oranges. Olympic broacasting rights in America is indeed as others have said, what keeps the game profitable. Last time I checked, thats internationa lcompetition. And Americans watch it, becuase they like it. Unlike Soccer.
 
christeljs
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:00 pm

There's too many games within USA itself, for them to care international. And I do believe USA think they are the best in "everything"  Wink
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casinterest
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:15 pm

Quoting KROC (Reply 14):
The Tour WAS popular until Lance retired, and mildly popular when Le Mond did his thing. This year, no one cares. Further, soccer is the number one youth sport in the US

well there are a few guys from that are doing well this year. One even wore the yellow jersey for a day.
However, this year is a bit tainted due to the doping scandal.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
KROC
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Further, soccer is the number one youth sport in the US

Soccer is popular with youth, because its something a lot of kids can play. However one they get older...they stop caring about Soccer. Thats why there is no interest in Soccer in this country. Why Soccer leagues will never be succeessful (in current times). The US women with the World Cup and Olympic Gold, and still nobody cares here.
 
Derico
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 10):
Plus in the sports we care about, we would kick the crap out of any team the world could muster.

So this is why the US kicked butt in the World Baseball Classic?

So this is why the US has never lost in basketball Olympics? (the World Cup of that sport)

So this is why the US dominates ice hockey?

Face it, you are just another country, and for it's size not particularly dominant head to head against other countries in head to head play. Very good in some sports, but not dominant to kick anyone like you claim since of course official stats just in the last few years indicate otherwise.

Of course you can still claim dominance in American Football and Women's Baseball (forgot it's name)... A dominance of 1 in an international field of play of... 1.

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 10):
Europe and the rest of the worlds countries dont have the numbers or economies to host huge leagues in many sports so therefore their ONLY competition is international.

Sophistry. Huge leagues or lack of them does not mean an attraction or not for international play. Each European country has their own huge football league, and they still have international tournaments. And also their baskeball leagues, many have their hockey leagues. They still enjoy playing in international competition.

It's just a cultural viewpoint. In other parts of the world international competition is cherished, in a very few others not.
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Arrow
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 7):
It's called the World Series because a newspaper called "The World" sponsered it and the name suck.

Interesting typo there. I assume you meant "stuck."

Just like everything else, sports in the US developed in isolation from the rest of the world over a 200 year period. But interest in international competition continues to grow, largely through the Olympics. The fact that some US-developed sports -- basketball and baseball -- are now popular internationally means US sports fans will contimue to be more interested.

Don't forget that for the rest of the world, beating the US at anything from tiddlywinks to chess is always a big deal. Just watch Australian coverage of any swimming event. Canadians dislike losing to anyone at hockey, but they absolutely detest losing to the US.

All that is very healthy. I suspect football (soccer) will be a big deal in the US in another 20 years. US football is going nowhere internationally.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
travelin man
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:39 am

I notice there has been no follow up regarding the original assertion that "Americans Don't Like International Competition".

Probably because the original assertion is total BS.
 
beefstew25
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:46 am

Anothe topic for bitter individuals to pick bones...
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evomutant
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
I disagree only because we don't suck at anything particularly.

The U.S.A rugby team is pretty bad, though a couple of players play in England and one is a class act (Mike Hercus-really an aussie though). I think Rugby is a sport that Americans would like if they saw it, good for showing how big and strong you are  Wink
 
mt99
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
So this is why the US has never lost in basketball Olympics? (

Hasnt it? Didnt it loose to Russia in Berlin?
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slider
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 5):
US Cities would never have been chosen so often if Americans did not like international competition...

Not necessarily.

Follow the money. The Olympics and the pork associated with it is what drives the train.
 
Mir
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 20):
I notice there has been no follow up regarding the original assertion that "Americans Don't Like International Competition".

Probably because the original assertion is total BS.

Or probably because I have to go to an internet cafe if I want to get online, since I´m away from home. Not to mention that I have other shit to do during my day besides spend it all on the internet. Forgive me for not being available instantly to answer comments.  Yeah sure

I stand by my assertion that the US doesn´t take as much interest in international competition as it should, given the quality of play that generally takes place.

Even the most obscure sports are going to have their rabid fan base (take curling for instance, which was wildly popular in Northern Minnesota, but not so much in other locations). But on the whole, do people in the US who are merely casual fans of a certain sport take notice when there was some sort of international tournament going on? I´ve found the answer to generally be no.

And regarding the Olympics, of course people watch the Olympics, but is that because they care about the games or because it´s the Olympics? My experience indicates that it´s the latter (certain events excepted, like women´s figure skating, but I don´t think I´m going too far out on a limb to say that most people watching that aren´t really watching it for the technical elements).

I agree that the World Cup is not a good litmus test, but what about the World Baseball Classic? That should have been very popular in the US - I don´t remember it being that way.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Given that Basketball is generally considered bigger than Baseball

What are you basing this on? I´d put it the other way around.

-Mir
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halls120
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
I stand by my assertion that the US doesn´t take as much interest in international competition as it should, given the quality of play that generally takes place.

If your position is that Americans ought to be more interested in international competition because the quality of play at that level is better, then that is your problem, IMO. The quality of play at the international level isn't always that much better than the professional teams, and even if it is, you are missing out on what draws fans to a given team.

Part of the reason the World Baseball Classic failed to gather much interest in the US is that we tend to root for favorite players and teams, not a once-every-four year conglomeration of athletes who happen to be American.

For example, I have three favorite baseball teams - the LA Dodgers, and any team playing the Yankees and Giants. You put a Giant or a Yankee in a US uniform, and I still see him as part of the evil empires. Dusty Baker used to be a player for the Dodgers. He was beloved. When he retired and managed the Giants, he became a traitorous turncoat. At the end of Jackie Robinson's career with the Dodgers, the Giants tried to sign him. He refused, knowing he could never wear that hated uniform.

My favorite golfers these days are Vijay Singh, Phil Mickelson and Ernie Els. I actually rooted for Colin Montgomerie to with the US Open, given his past failures. I like Ryder Cup, but I don't care if the US wins or loses - I just want to watch good golf.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
usnseallt82
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
it really seems like the US could care less about playing other countries in tournaments.

I'm not real sure where you get this information from. I love international competitions and most of the people I know do too.

I see it more as a lot of Americans just don't like watching sports unless they're mainstream ones, but I don't think it has anything to do with the international scene.

Besides, the Olympics are huge here and this years World Cup was a massive ratings boost for both ABC and ESPN.
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FlyUSCG
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
So this is why the US kicked butt in the World Baseball Classic?

The majority of players in MLB all left to go play for their home countries. The teams we have now, as they are, would beat pretty much any team other countries could field.

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
So this is why the US has never lost in basketball Olympics? (the World Cup of that sport)

Correct me if i'm wrong, but dont the U.S. teams like that only get together maybe a week or two before the Olympics to start practicing? Plus with most players being professional now (which goes against the whole idea of the Olympics) they usually dont care if they win or loose because they are making a shit load of money back home.

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
So this is why the US dominates ice hockey?

It may not seem like it, but hockey is probably ranked after baseball, football, and basketball for most watched in this country (correct me if i'm wrong). While it's a great sport and all, it's a very geographical one not to mention they destroyed their fan base with their recent strike.

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
Huge leagues or lack of them does not mean an attraction or not for international play. Each European country has their own huge football league,

The U.S. has 4 huge leagues that are always playing year around (that is at least one of them is always on). International competition would just add to that and frankly, that is more than enough. Plus, international competition for the U.S. would mean flying all over the world (vs. driving the relatively short distances in Europe) which would draw out the seasons even longer.
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travelin man
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
I stand by my assertion that the US doesn´t take as much interest in international competition as it should, given the quality of play that generally takes place.

And I stand by my assertion that your assertion is complete BS that is not backed up by FACTS.

Please provide EVIDENCE that Americans are not interested in international competition (or at least up to the imaginary benchmark you have created).

The World Baseball Classic? That was a stunt put on by MLB. First off, nobody knew much about it -- it was the first time they ever tried it. Secondly, as Halls120 stated, Americans are not so nationalistic when it comes to baseball -- we follow individual teams.

So again -- Americans participate in and watch plenty of international competitions. HOWEVER, only a few rise to the "Global Event" standard -- The Olympics and The World Cup. We have already been over how the US is not so much a soccer country, and the Olympics are very popular in the US.
 
bongo
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:02 am

Nothing against USA and Americans, I love USA, but maybe they think USA is the World ?
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deltadc9
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
how relatively few US-Americans can be seen on bicycles

Ever hear of BMX or Mountain Biking? IN the summer you see bikers all the freaking time. We have bike paths everywhere also.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
and how relatively few US-Americans actually are skiing

Then explain all the ski facilities in most states, even ones that are too warm for real snow.

Quoting Christeljs (Reply 15):
And I do believe USA think they are the best in "everything"

Maybe because we have people from every country in the world, and many of the best at what they do.

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
Face it, you are just another country

No, not really. If we were why is our GNP ten times every other countries but Japans? Why are we and Russia the only space legitimate faring nations? Why does the US have such a massive military? Why does the US account for 50% of all air travel? Simple, the US is 50 "countries" working together with immigrants from all over the world providing diversity.

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
Each European country has their own huge football league, and they still have international tournaments

Comparing the US to an individual European country is like comparing a rose to a rose bush.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 19):
Just like everything else, sports in the US developed in isolation from the rest of the world over a 200 year period

I disagree, we have derived most of what we have from the rest of the world because the rest of the world came here. How can you be isolated when everyone is from someplace else?

Quoting Arrow (Reply 19):
I suspect football (soccer) will be a big deal in the US in another 20 years. US football is going nowhere internationally.

I suspect you are wrong, the biggest turnout for an NFL game was not in the US, and Japan is next. We dont like soccer, just accept it.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 20):
Probably because the original assertion is total BS.

Yes it is.

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Given that Basketball is generally considered bigger than Baseball

What are you basing this on? I´d put it the other way around.

Football and Baseball dominate the tube and the attendance. Basketball and Hockey are a notch down for sure.

Quoting Bongo (Reply 30):
Nothing against USA and Americans, I love USA, but maybe they think USA is the World ?

We are the world, a nation of immigrants. Even the Native Americans are not really native. Airbus is a perfect example, even with their current hiccups, of what greatness diverse cultures working together can obtain beyond any individual culture. That is why the EU is a great idea, and why Russia is weaker without its former satellites.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
nitrohelper
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:00 pm

Yes ,I agree that most people in the USA believe that they are the "best" in most things,because they haven't traveled or studied other parts of the globe. However what other country has achieved the success in science & industry of the USA in their first 250 years of existence ? Perhaps because of the strong willed people that left their stagnant, or autocratic country for a better life.
As to the topic on hand ,I have been in auto racing for more than 40 years,we believe that the "stick & ball" sports get more coverage in the media because it is something that children can play.
If you can't get killed or injured,is it a sport ,or just a kids game ? What is all the discussion about a head butt ? "Oh my what a Brut "! How about if he could catch fire !
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 4):
The Commonwealth Games?

...which I'm still convinced you'd be entitled to compete in, should the US go ahead with any plans to join the commonwealth of nations.

If anything, it would inject a little interest in the games for us Australians who are sick and tired of winning almost everything!

QFF
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
The Olympics have started to get a little more attention, but other than that, it really seems like the US could care less about playing other countries in tournaments.

The only tournament the World goes crazy about and the U.S. just shrugs our shoulders is the World Cup. And even that is slowly growing in popularity.

Otherwise the U.S. is typically very interested in international sports like tennis and golf. The Olympics are very popular and have been for my entire life at least...

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
I´m just wondering why, since the atmosphere here in Munich for the World Cup was fantastic.

Glad you enjoyed.

But keep in mind, just because it's very popular abroad doesn't mean everyone must find it universally appealing. If everyone in the world found competitive lawn mowing entertaining, would Germans feel compelled to join in? A lot of us find football as exciting as watching paint dry...
 
mhodgson
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:27 pm

The World Series was NOT called that because of a newspaper:

Quoting Wikipedia:
A persistent myth is that the "World" in "World Series" came about because the New York World newspaper sponsored it. Baseball researcher Doug Pappas refutes that claim, demonstrating a linear progression from the phrase "World's Championship Series" (used to describe the 1903 series as well as some of the 19th-century postseason series) to "World's Series" (a term first used in the 1880s and which persisted for decades) to "World Series". Furthermore, investigation of the New York World for the relevant years revealed no evidence of the supposed sponsorship. (For details, see Mr. Pappas' web page on the subject.)
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par13del
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RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting Arrow
"Just like everything else, sports in the US developed in isolation from the rest of the world over a 200 year period"

From a hsitorical perspective, this happened because of what the framers of the US constitution did. Football is the largest sport in the world, where did it originate, and how much did the colonial empire of the British, French and Spanish contribute to it? What native sports were played in the colonies before the colonial master brought in their sports? How about cricket, and squash, do you see a parallel here? How come England, sometimes called the father of soccer could only win one world cup and it was played in England?
For years the Khans - Jahangir and Jansher - dominated squash, the West Indies and Australia, Pakistan, India dominated cricket?

If America was a colonial power would we be playing US football instead of soccer, baseball is gradually catching on over the world, as is American Football, however, they have centuries of colonial rule to overcome, but it can be done, basketball is certainely getting very popular all over the world, so sports is gradually moving out beyond its first enforced boundaries. Wonder what native sports we can look forward to in the near future?
 
evomutant
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:47 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 33):
...which I'm still convinced you'd be entitled to compete in, should the US go ahead with any plans to join the commonwealth of nations.

Technically, only the 13 original colonies plus Hawaii would be eligible to join since they were the only parts of what is now the USA that were part of the British empire, although an exception was made to allow Mozambique to join a few years ago despite it being a former Portugese colony.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 14):
The Olympics and the World Cup are like comparing Apples and Oranges. Olympic broacasting rights in America is indeed as others have said, what keeps the game profitable. Last time I checked, thats internationa lcompetition. And Americans watch it, becuase they like it. Unlike Soccer.

And what I am saying is the reason the Olympics rely so much on the US is because they are set up to do so. The World Cup is set up so it doesn't need the US

Quoting KROC (Reply 17):
Why Soccer leagues will never be succeessful (in current times).

The MLS has seen booming popularity since its inception and we are in the midst of a flurry of stadium building with big sponsors signing on, even at the USL level. I would call that successful

Quoting KROC (Reply 17):
Soccer is popular with youth, because its something a lot of kids can play.

A lot of kids can play basketball, swim, dive, run track, etc. but soccer still rules the youth roost.

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
Women's Baseball (forgot it's name)...

Softball

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
A dominance of 1 in an international field of play of... 1

You left out basketball and swimming

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 23):
Hasnt it? Didnt it loose to Russia in Berlin?

Munich, however, that game is considered highly suspect and the US team never accepted their silver medals.

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
What are you basing this on? I´d put it the other way around



Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 31):
Football and Baseball dominate the tube and the attendance. Basketball and Hockey are a notch down for sure.

Baseball dominates the tube because they play it everyday, not 2-3 times a week. The attendance figures are high because the tickets are dirt cheap relative to other sports (I can see a Dodger game for less than $10). Basketball has significantly more marketing muscle than baseball and relies a lot less on wasteful practices.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 31):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
how relatively few US-Americans can be seen on bicycles

Ever hear of BMX or Mountain Biking? IN the summer you see bikers all the freaking time. We have bike paths everywhere also.

What he means is riding bikes as a means of transport, and he is correct. Only in New Orleans, Chicago (summer), New York (summer), Seattle, Portland and Boston (summer), do you see much bike transport at all.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 31):
If we were why is our GNP ten times every other countries but Japans?

Horrible use of an outdated indicator

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 31):
Why does the US have such a massive military?

Do you really want to get into this one?

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 35):
The World Series was NOT called that because of a newspaper:

Quoting Wikipedia:

And I still leave that one open for interpretation because Wikipedia is an invalid source
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 7):
It's called the World Series because a newspaper called "The World" sponsered it and the name suck.



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 9):
Thats interesting. I didn't know that.

Urban myth see: http://www.snopes.com/business/names/worldseries.asp

Quoting Bongo (Reply 30):
Nothing against USA and Americans, I love USA, but maybe they think USA is the World ?

Ah, this might be closer to the truth.

But they do forget that 'American Football' was first played in Montreal, American Basketball was invented by a Canadian, Ice Hockey - well won't comment on the proportion of Canadian players to Americans and that leaves ... Baseball? Isn't that Rounders?
 
mhodgson
Posts: 4673
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:47 pm

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competi

Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
And I still leave that one open for interpretation because Wikipedia is an invalid source

Backed up by Bill Bryson in his book 'Made in America'. And his research in that book is impeccable.
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
The Olympics have started to get a little more attention, but other than that, it really seems like the US could care less about playing other countries in tournaments.

Its kind of like the Berlin Olympics where Jesse Owens proved to the whole
world that Whites were not the master race. Americans don't like it because
international competition proves they are not the greatest at something.
The Part that kills me is that they Have not only lost baseball but also
Basketball, what next......Football?

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
iamcanadian
Posts: 704
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 6:53 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 18):
So this is why the US dominates ice hockey?

Past Olympic Medal Positions in Men's Ice Hockey:

Year Gold Silver Bronze
1920 Canada- United States- Czechoslovakia
1924 Canada- United States- Great Britain
1928 Canada- Sweden- Switzerland
1932 Canada- United States- Germany
1936 Great Britain- Canada- United States
1948 Canada- Czechoslovakia- Switzerland
1952 Canada- United States- Sweden
1956 Soviet Union- United States- Canada
1960 United States- Canada- Soviet Union
1964 Soviet Union- Sweden- Czechoslovakia
1968 Soviet Union- Czechoslovakia- Canada
1972 Soviet Union- United States-Czechoslovakia
1976 Soviet Union- Czechoslovakia- West Germany
1980 United States- Soviet Union- Sweden
1984 Soviet Union- Czechoslovakia- Sweden
1988 Soviet Union- Finland- Sweden
1992 CIS- Canada- Czechoslovakia
1994 Sweden- Canada- Finland
1998 Czech Republic- Russia- Finland
1998 United States- Canada- Finland
2002 Canada- United States- Russia
2006 Sweden- Finland Czech- Republic

Canada: 7 Gold-5 Silver-2 Bronze

United States: 3 Gold-7 Silver-1 Bronze

Domination? Not really...

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 28):
It may not seem like it, but hockey is probably ranked after baseball, football, and basketball for most watched in this country (correct me if i'm wrong). While it's a great sport and all, it's a very geographical one not to mention they destroyed their fan base with their recent strike.

Not only is hockey ranked behind baseball, football, and basketball, but it's ranked behind the stations showing softball and watching grass grow and paint dry.

Unfortunately, one sport the USA does NOT care about, is ice hockey.
Shut up and calculate.
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:08 am

Quoting Evomutant (Reply 37):
Technically, only the 13 original colonies plus Hawaii would be eligible to join since they were the only parts of what is now the USA that were part of the British empire

Well, going by that theory, people from Quebec would not be allowed to compete in the Commonwealth games either. There really is no defining prerequisite for joining the Commonwealth of nations, and the USA has stronger historic links with the UK than many current commonwealth members (Brunei, Tonga, Mozambique etc).

One could also possibly argue that countries like Jordan and Israel are eligible for membership.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Christa
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RE: Why Don�t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting Evomutant (Reply 22):
The U.S.A rugby team is pretty bad, though a couple of players play in England and one is a class act (Mike Hercus-really an aussie though). I think Rugby is a sport that Americans would like if they saw it, good for showing how big and strong you are

The USA Rugby team isn't exactly the best, but they are by no means bad. Mike Hercus is actually half American and half Australian. He did play for Sale Sharks in the Guinness Premiership, but transferred to Llanelli Scarlets, to play in the Magners Celtic League. Since then, the Scarlets have purchased Stephen Jones from ASM Clermont Auvergne in France. He is a much better fly-half than Mike Hercus and is also Welsh (as are the Scarlets). The Scarlets also have a lot of talent coming through. However, Mike Hercus has moved to another Welsh team, called the Gwent Dragons.

If the US Sports networks started showing Rugby Union and there was a greater amount of funding for Rugby in the USA, they could be World Champions. I'm 100% sure of that! Maybe one day.. who knows!?

Regards,
Chris
Croeso i Faes Awyr Rhyngwladol Caerdydd - Welcome to Cardiff International Airport
 
evomutant
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:47 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competi

Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 43):
One could also possibly argue that countries like Jordan and Israel are eligible for membership.

They are, as is Ireland and a whole load more who just choose not too. And ask yourself who the head of state of Quebec is.

Quoting Christa (Reply 44):
The USA Rugby team isn't exactly the best, but they are by no means bad. Mike Hercus is actually half American and half Australian. He did play for Sale Sharks in the Guinness Premiership, but transferred to Llanelli Scarlets, to play in the Magners Celtic League. Since then, the Scarlets have purchased Stephen Jones from ASM Clermont Auvergne in France. He is a much better fly-half than Mike Hercus and is also Welsh (as are the Scarlets). The Scarlets also have a lot of talent coming through. However, Mike Hercus has moved to another Welsh team, called the Gwent Dragons

I was a big fan of Hercus at Sale, sublime passing ability and tactical kicking although his defence was poor and his place-kicking somewhat erratic. From what i saw of him at LLanelli this season his defence has stepped up and he is a genuine quality player. I was dissapointed my team, Wasps, didnt sign him when it became clear he was available, he beats Alex King anyday and Dave Walder is steady but unspectacular.

Evo
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting Christa (Reply 44):

If the US Sports networks started showing Rugby Union and there was a greater amount of funding for Rugby in the USA, they could be World Champions.

Rugby isn't shown on television in the United States except for some costly pay-per-view events. Any chances that ESPN and ESPN2 might show some rugby are fairly slim, as they're on this fetish of showing poker tournaments every time you look (nothing against poker, but these are supposed to be sports networks and poker isn't a sport).
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting Evomutant (Reply 45):
They are, as is Ireland and a whole load more who just choose not too. And ask yourself who the head of state of Quebec is.

Head of state has nothing to do with it. A minority of Commonwealth member states actually have Queen Elizabeth as head of state.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
evomutant
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:47 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competi

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:27 pm

But all once did come under the Crown, (except Mozambique).
Remember the progression of the name of the Commonwealth:

British Empire->British Empire and Commonwealth->British Commonwealth->The Commonwealth.

[Edited 2006-07-14 13:31:41]
 
QANTASforever
Posts: 5794
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:03 am

RE: Why Don´t Americans Like International Competiton?

Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting Evomutant (Reply 48):
But all once did come under the Crown

No they didn't. As I said, there is no single defining prerequisite to membership of the commonwealth of nations. Tonga has always been an independent kingdom, and as you point out Mozambique has never been "British". Protectorate status as with Brunei couldn't really be classified as being "under the crown".

I think Wikipedia sums things up pretty well (from the "Commonwealth of Nations" article):

"Membership is open to countries that accept the association's basic aims and have a present or past constitutional link to a Commonwealth member. Not all members have had direct constitutional ties to the UK: some South Pacific countries were formerly under Australian or New Zealand administration, while Namibia was governed by South Africa from 1920 until independence in 1990. Cameroon joined in 1995 although only a fraction of its territory had formerly been under British administration through the League of Nations mandate of 1920–46 and United Nations Trusteeship arrangement of 1946–61. There is only one member of the present Commonwealth which has never had any constitutional link to the British Empire or a Commonwealth member. Mozambique, a former Portuguese colony, was admitted in 1995 on the back of the triumphal re-admission of South Africa and Mozambique's first democratic elections, held in 1994. The move was supported by Mozambique's neighbours, all of whom were members of the Commonwealth and who wished to offer assistance in overcoming the losses incurred from the country's opposition to white minority regimes in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and South Africa. In 1997, amid some discontent, Commonwealth Heads of Government agreed that Mozambique's admission should be seen as a special case and not set a precedent."

As I've said, the United States is quite entitled to join the Commonwealth.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.

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