oldeuropean
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Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:12 pm

We`ve had some discussions about the expansion of WalMart in the world and its problems in Germany.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1155175 Walmart Taking Over Earth!
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1049389 Wal-Mart: Good, Bad Or Evil?
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/825485 Is Wal Mart Good For America?
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/898011 Wal-Mart, One Of The Best Things About America

Now WalMart gives up his fight in one of the most important markets in the world. The stores will be sold.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,428975,00.html

The mights of the dark side will be defeated!!!

Axel

[Edited 2006-07-28 11:41:27]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
skyman
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:47 pm

What they are leaving?  goodvibes   goodvibes  One bad company less in Germany.
 
stormbringer
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:20 pm

Now where are you going to get cheap lederhosen and beer stiens at 3am?
It's not road rage. It's COURTESY ENFORCEMENT.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:29 pm

Yeah, big difference, so instead of Wal-Mart trying to control the German market, now the METRO-Group will be more powerful in attempting the same feat  Yeah sure .
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting Stormbringer (Reply 2):
Now where are you going to get cheap lederhosen and beer stiens at 3am?

I don`t know, where you buy Lederhosen and beer stiens. I and everyone here never has any need for this stuff.  Yeah sure No matter, at what time.  Wink

Axel
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KaiGywer
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:55 pm

I once shopped at K-Markt in Frankfurt. Is that in any way related to the American K-Mart (Came-apart)?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
stormbringer
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:06 pm

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 4):
I don`t know, where you buy Lederhosen and beer stiens. I and everyone here never has any need for this stuff.

You've shattered my illusions of Germany  Confused
It's not road rage. It's COURTESY ENFORCEMENT.
 
sccutler
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:17 pm

All this hostility toward Wal-Mart is confusing. If you don't like them, exercise your right to shop elsewhere. It appears that the German market has spoken in this way.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:19 pm

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 7):
All this hostility toward Wal-Mart is confusing. If you don't like them, exercise your right to shop elsewhere. It appears that the German market has spoken in this way.

Walmart is just the company we love to hate. "Everybody" hates Walmart, yet the parking is ALWAYS a zoo, and there are ALWAYS people shopping there, even at 3-4 am.

I love Walmart, where else can you get everything you need at that time of night  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:24 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 8):
Walmart is just the company we love to hate. "Everybody" hates Walmart, yet the parking is ALWAYS a zoo, and there are ALWAYS people shopping there, even at 3-4 am.

It's the same with McDonalds. Supposedly, around 110% of this planet's population absolutely hates McD's from the bottom of their hearts, yet McD's continues to grow, make more money, and sell more burgers. Most people who hate something like McD or Wal-Mart just say that because it's the "in" thing to do.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:30 pm

They made a serious mistake going into Germany in the first place. They could never force their 'American' style of treating employees and shop hours there. Germany has very rigid labor laws and retail shop hours, along with strong business and consumer support for them that they never could challange or change. They have been far more successful in the UK when they took over Asda as the UK is far more flexible as to labor utilization and retail shop hours. For those that bash WalMart, are they really that much worse than Target, K-Mart and other 'big box' retail stores as to treatment of their employees and how they affect the communities they have stores in?
 
PSA727
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:06 pm

Was???!!!!!

I must admit that I've gone to Berlin's Neukoelln location a few times, as
well as the one in Essen's Porsche Platz. They were always busy, but
I do think that being restricted from setting their own operating hours
prevented them from maximizing their potential revenue.

However, I will always be faithful to Real Supermarkt. They are my first
choice for grocery shopping (except for fruits and vegetables).
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
texasaggie
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:20 pm

I was kind of surprised when I saw this this morning.

When I was in Germany, I could definitely sense the feelings of hostility toward McDonald's, and I could tell a little bit that people were against Wal-Mart.

What's the popular attitude toward Aldi in Germany?
 
bill142
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:06 pm

Walmart fails to realise that the tactics it uses in the US market, don't work in other markets. This is why they failed in Germany, Korea and other markets which it has pulled out of.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:44 pm

Quoting Texasaggie (Reply 12):
What's the popular attitude toward Aldi in Germany?

You do realize that Aldi is a German company...not American.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:30 pm

I find that the Wal Marts in Germany are in comparison to it's North American counterparts (from a shoppers point of view). Most of the Wal Marts in NA are more of a department store with a smaller grocery section. Lots of good prices on a large selection of clothes, household items, electronics, etc. Most of the Wal Marts I shopped at in Germany, were the complete opposite. Large grocery section with the other departments being much, much smaller.

The prices in Germany were quite reasonable to other stores such as REAL, but if there is one thing that Germany has alot of, its discount grocery stores. I'm sure it was quite hard for Wal Mart to compete with the likes of Aldi, Lidl, Penny Markt and the bunch. Could this also have been a factor?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:38 pm

Compared to Walmarts in the US I've seen the German counterparts seem to be cleaner as well. Maybe especially German housewives have a lower tolerance for dirt than their American counterparts and would refuse to go shopping in a dirty store.

Jan
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clipperhawaii
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:45 pm

The German consumer loses and Wal*Mart makes a good decision as it had...

1. Language barriers.
2. Difficulty with German labor and their unions (Wal*Mart is not unionized)
3. Stagnant German consumer spending (No growth)
4. Wal*Mart's business strategies did not work in Germany

A very good business decision on Wal*Mart's part. The shareholders are happy to dump Germany believe me.

Good luck with Metro AG.  biggrin 
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
NoUFO
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:23 pm

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 17):
The German consumer loses

I don't exactly feel like losing ...

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 14):
You do realize that Aldi is a German company...not American.

This is not really relevant, since other US companies are successful in Germany, last was Starbucks, and I admit that it did surprise me to see the quick expansion of Starbucks in Germany against the background of a very strong competition. In the case of Starbucks, being American supposedly helped.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 17):
4. Wal*Mart's business strategies did not work in Germany

That's the quintessence of the story.
I support the right to arm bears
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:05 am

The main reason for their billion Dollar loss was their arrogant entrance on the market. They didn`t make analyses of the conditions in Germany. They came and expected to conquer a market without any clue about it and underestimated the competition. Analysts criticised their appearance from the beginning.

Der Spiegel in english: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,429137,00.html

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 17):
A very good business decision on Wal*Mart's part. The shareholders are happy to dump Germany believe me.

Fine that you find it so positiv. Yes, in respect of the great loses they are happy.

But loosing on the third greatest market in the world in such a mournful way should be a shame for this spoiled company (actually for every company) and some heads should roll now at Wal Mart.

Axel

[Edited 2006-07-29 18:21:40]

[Edited 2006-07-29 18:22:13]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
halls120
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 19):
Analysts criticised their appearance from the beginning.

Walmart stores are incredibly ugly on the outside, and unkempt on the inside. Only K mart is worse. On the other hand, Target stores in the US are just the opposite - and they manage to make a profit while maintaining low prices.

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 19):
But loosing on the third greatest market in the world in such a mournful way should be a shame for this spoiled company (actually for every company) and some heads should roll now at Wal Mart.

Maybe heads should roll, but I find it refreshing that not every country is going to look alike. When we went to Ireland two years ago, the only McDonalds we saw was at Shannon, and we saw no (yea!) Starbucks. Don't get me wrong, I like Starbucks, but I don't want to see one on every street corner of the globe.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
greasespot
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:32 am

Yeah from what i heard the germans here they still have a place they can go get cheap crap.....  Smile

Not sure what CH thinks they are supposed to be losing...

For the Germans on here...Do you see this as a good thing or bad thing?


GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
Walmart stores are incredibly ugly on the outside, and unkempt on the inside. Only K mart is worse. On the other hand, Target stores in the US are just the opposite - and they manage to make a profit while maintaining low prices.

Sorry, I used the wrong word. I meant more: Analyst criticised their acting from the beginning.  sorry 

But you are right. Their stores are really ugly and unkempt. Even more than Aldi stores.

Axel
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
halls120
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 23):
But you are right. Their stores are really ugly and unkempt. Even more than Aldi stores.

Axel

You should see some of their older stores here is the US. Disgusting, quite frankly.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 21):
For the Germans on here...Do you see this as a good thing or bad thing?

Here is a strong competition by different companys, which are even cheaper than Wal Mart, and many others on Wal Marts price level (and indeed others more expensive). It`s a strong and tough market. Nobody misses Wal Mart or will miss the next looser. We can shop everywhere for every price we want. (Cheap or luxurious goods) Big grin

Axel
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
NoUFO
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 21):
For the Germans on here...Do you see this as a good thing or bad thing?

Couldn't care less. I often avoid supermarkets in general and buy groceries on a market, a farmer's market that is.

Some things Wal Mart - in my opinion, but I'm no analyst - got wrong were

- I'd never think of driving half an hour out of Berlin and spend a small fortune on fuel only to save a couple of bucks, sorry: Euro.

- I hate getting lost between the racks of a supermarket. A supermarket can be too small (= expensive, small range of products) or too big. So keep clothings, DVD and guns out. I wouldn't try on and buy a shirt at a supermarket *shudder*.

- I generally appreciate motivated, helpful employees, but please leave me alone when I wonder which of the 30 mineral waters is safe to drink. And I don't need - nor want - someone who gives me a hand putting my items into a bag.

- The only report on wal Mart Germany I readt referred to some amusing guidelines of anno domini 1812 for today's employees which caused a little stir.
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texasaggie
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 14):
You do realize that Aldi is a German company...not American.

What led you to believe I thought it was American? I was wanting to know about the popular opinion of Aldi in Germany.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 23):
But you are right. Their stores are really ugly and unkempt. Even more than Aldi stores.

That really depends. The Wal-Mart I usually go to is usually very clean and in good condition, whereas my 2 local Aldis are, well, 2 POS's: Dirty floor, 70's interiors, and not enough parking spaces.

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 21):
For the Germans on here...Do you see this as a good thing or bad thing?

It's a "Meh" thing for me, though Wal Mart did have a few articles that I have yet to find at a similar or cheaper price at Aldi, Penny or wherever. Plus, going to Wal-Mart also meant I good get some good food at the Chinese restaurant that is located in the entrance area of that Wal-Mart Big grin .
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting Texasaggie (Reply 27):
I was wanting to know about the popular opinion of Aldi in Germany.

Well, Aldi is cheap, but the range in the repertoire isn`t large.

But 2 times a week they have special offers. Sometimes PCs, digital cameras, printers, clothes, stationery, Asian, American, Italian, Greek or Spanish food and many other stuff, which is often very cheap and normally of good quality. Specially on these 2 days they are well visited.
The repertoire and the offers of their main competitor Lidl is likewise but a little bit larger.

Both have some problems in the public opinion about their treatment of their employes. The treatment but not the payment, because about 2250 Euros (roughly 2860 US Dollars) per month, for 38 hours a week (30 days holidays the year) for the cashiers, isn`t so bad.

Until 20 years ago, buying at Aldi was socially not well respected. Aldis were the shops for the poorer people. Later their image changed and specially their special offers changed the social acceptance. (Also at that time the competitors, specially Lidl have emerged)
Today, you also can find middle class people buying at Aldi or elsewhere. Because from that time on it`s smart to buy cheap, if the quality is ok.

Axel

[Edited 2006-07-29 20:28:27]

[Edited 2006-07-29 20:30:51]

[Edited 2006-07-29 20:33:30]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 29):
Aldis were the shops for the poorer people.

Actually, they were more recognized as the shops of the Turkish population in Germany  Silly .
 
clipperhawaii
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:53 am

I forgot to add that Germany's very difficult regulatory environment makes it hard to open large Wal*Mart type stores and thus Wal*Mart's low prices did not stand out in a market filled with cut-price stores.

Germany has very restrictive regulations and that's bad for the German consumer. Wal-Mart and other major retailers have entered Germany and failed so there is no surprise there. Business partnerships are the way to go. Such as Starbucks had. They aligned with KarstadtQuelle when they entered Germany.

Karstadt had the expertise through the regulatory minefields and now that they have helped with that, they have been bought out by Starbucks(majority holder). Today Starbucks is profitable in Germany and KarstadtQuelle concentrates on its core business. Karstadt were not too good in helping Starbucks on the profitability side. Starbucks did it the right way. The partnership they had helped to get the in roads into Germany and now just look at the Starbucks stores in Germany. They seem to brew success there and that's the lesson to be learned.

Wal Mart failed to realize the heavy burden of regulations that it does not face here in the U.S.'s very free open market. They cut their loss and did the "dump it".

BTW Wal*Mart's shares were up 2% on the news. What a giant. Take a huge loss and they stock still jumps! Amazing!  Smile
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
ACDC8
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:04 am

As far as store cleanliness goes, I can't say anything for the US stores, but the stores up here in Canada are very clean, very bright and open. A very pleasant place to go shopping. On the other hand, the stores that I visited in Germany on a regular basis, were small, cramped and dirty.

When we have friends or family from Germany visit us here, they are usually very surprised at the difference between Wal Marts here and there.

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 29):
Both have some problems in the public opinion about their treatment of their employes. The treatment but not the payment, because about 2250 Euros (roughly 2860 US Dollars) per month, for 38 hours a week (30 days holidays the year) for the cashiers, isn`t so bad.

I could never understand why Aldi cashiers "earn" so much. Just scan the item and toss it towards the end of the counter so the customer barely has time to catch it and put it in his cart. Don't forget to talk very loudly with your co-workers over the latest gossip so the whole store can hear. And please, don't ever, ever smile. Aldi is a very unpleasant shopping experience.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Klaus
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 30):
Wal Mart failed to realize the heavy burden of regulations that it does not face here in the U.S.'s very free open market.

Rubbish. They weren't up to the fierce competition in a tough market and got a bloody nose for their arrogant approach.

I've always avoided WalMart like the plague since the inappropriately intrusive aspects of their own worker regulations became public. I don't shop at places like that. Same is true for the german Schlecker chain who treat their employees like dirt. Such stores need to be boycotted. I'll spend my money where prices are okay, and both customers and employees are treated decently.

Blaming it on the german regulations is simply laughable since their numerous competition apparently cope quite well - they just know what they're doing, contrary to WalMart.

German grocery prices are actually ridiculously low, so your allegations are simply nonsense.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 30):
BTW Wal*Mart's shares were up 2% on the news. What a giant. Take a huge loss and they stock still jumps! Amazing!

Whoop-dee-doo! After their ongoing malaise, ultimately even an amputation will certainly be preferable by comparison!  crazy 

But I'm glad your xenophoby is reinforced and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside...!  mischievous 

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
I could never understand why Aldi cashiers "earn" so much. Just scan the item and toss it towards the end of the counter so the customer barely has time to catch it and put it in his cart.

I don't know if it's changed since the last time I went there, but the point was exactly that they did not have scanners but actually knew the price of every item by heart! And they were still speedy and reliable.

But as I said, I don't know if that's changed by now.
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
I don't know if it's changed since the last time I went there, but the point was exactly that they did not have scanners but actually knew the price of every item by heart! And they were still speedy and reliable.

But as I said, I don't know if that's changed by now.

They have scanners for years and you also can pay with a card. Once, they haven`t had scanners, the cashiers were famous for knowing the price of every item and they had to be and were very very fast. Faster than the first scanners.

Axel
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
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solnabo
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:12 pm

Germany must be infested with LIDL, so they don´t need more übercheap supermarkets on german soil.....

Micke/SWE  eek   faint 
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LTU932
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting Texasaggie (Reply 26):
I was wanting to know about the popular opinion of Aldi in Germany.

Loved and hated, much like Walmart, only more popular and by far more successful. But then again, Walmart has a different business model than Aldi, since Aldi is more of a mainstream supermarket than an oversized mini-mall.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 29):
Actually, they were more recognized as the shops of the Turkish population in Germany

Remember that Champions League game, where FCB fans were holding Aldi bags in the air when they were playing one of the Istanbul teams?  Wink

We bought at the Hamburg Walmart a couple of times once, when it was still known as Wertkauf. Those shops are somewhat comparable to the "Hiper-Mas" chain in Costa Rica. Curiously though, Walmart wants to enter Costa Rica as well with a partial acquisition of Hiper-Mas parent company CSU. Personally, I could care less about Walmart in Germany or Costa Rica.
 
Klaus
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:09 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 33):
They have scanners for years and you also can pay with a card.

Goes to show how long it's been since I've shopped there...
 
halls120
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 30):
I forgot to add that Germany's very difficult regulatory environment makes it hard to open large Wal*Mart type stores and thus Wal*Mart's low prices did not stand out in a market filled with cut-price stores.

That is an extremely lame excuse. It was up to Walmart to become aware of the regulatory environment of Germany before they invested. Even if Germany's regulatory environment is burdensome, Walmart should have factored that into their business plan before opening their stores there.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
clipperhawaii
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
I've always avoided WalMart like the plague since the inappropriately intrusive aspects of their own worker regulations became public.

What? Intrusive? Care to explain that? More like hog wash like the rest of the anti-Wal Mart "they should be unionized" press and goons say.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
Blaming it on the German regulations is simply laughable since their numerous competition apparently cope quite well - they just know what they're doing, contrary to WalMart.

That's just part of it pal. Read the other reasons.

Wal Mart's competition was????? German perhaps? Their competition is coping quite well? Hmmmmmm. Consumer spending in Germany aint all that right now. It could be much better. biggrin 

Wal Mart's business model did not work in Germany. But for Wal Mart to be Wal Mart, their business plan HAS to work. If you understood that about their supply chain and how Wal Mart operates it's stores you would understand it. But I guess you don't. You never shopped there because of your own perceptions.

Ultimately, it's consumer that loses. That would be you Klaus, as you pay a little more because somehow you are "socially" more responsible than the rest. Collective giggles.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
German grocery prices are actually ridiculously low, so your allegations are simply nonsense.

Groceries? I think that tells me your knowledge of Wal Mart.  biggrin 

Enjoy shopping at those Metro stores. They are after all, German. And that's probably why you like them in the first place. Right Klaus? We know that the Germans can be VERY nationalistic.  yes 

See you at German Starbucks. Or don't you like them either?  biggrin 



In case any of you have missed it, WAL 38.41 +0.77 (+2.05%) on the news of exiting Germany. Most companies are not as resilient.
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
Klaus
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RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
What? Intrusive? Care to explain that? More like hog wash like the rest of the anti-Wal Mart "they should be unionized" press and goons say.

I hope your prejudices keep you warm at night...  Yeah sure

The section of their employee regulations which caused quite a stir in Germany was the snooping into the personal affairs of the employees. Among other things, they prohibited their employees to have private relationships among each other. The weird combination of religious bigotry and ruthless business practices of the owner family didn't really help either when it was dragged into the open.

Snooping and intrusion into the private affairs of others is very much frowned upon over here (as is religious or other extremism), so many people simply took their money elsewhere in order to not support this kind of thing. It was certainly not their primary blunder, just another nail in the coffin.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
Wal Mart's competition was?????

...avoiding the mistakes WalMart made. Simple as that.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
German perhaps?

I don't care, as long as they're behaving halfway properly and they're offering something I want to pay for.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
Consumer spending in Germany aint all that right now. It could be much better.

WalMart's competition does just fine.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
Wal Mart's business model did not work in Germany. But for Wal Mart to be Wal Mart, their business plan HAS to work. If you understood that about their supply chain and how Wal Mart operates it's stores you would understand it. But I guess you don't. You never shopped there because of your own perceptions.

They couldn't be bothered to check out a major new market before simply dropping their standard business model in there; That's pretty much guaranteed to fail in many cases.

The german retail market is fully developed, with a wide range of ultra-cheap, mid-range and high-end suppliers. Wedging yourself in there is quite a task, and you absolutely need to know what you're doing if that's what you're going to attempt.

They apparently simply assumed that nobody over here had ever thought of their kind of business model - and they were wrong. Bad mistake.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
Ultimately, it's consumer that loses. That would be you Klaus, as you pay a little more because somehow you are "socially" more responsible than the rest. Collective giggles.

They added nothing to the market that didn't exist before and their stores are just being taken over (the way they did in the first place), so nobody will miss them either.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
Groceries? I think that tells me your knowledge of Wal Mart.

Maybe you don't know the german WalMart operations as well as you think you did.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
We know that the Germans can be VERY nationalistic.

Yawn. Your bait is a bit too dry and shrivelled-up to be of any interest to me.
Maybe actually visit Germany sometime this century. You might be surprised.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
See you at German Starbucks. Or don't you like them either?

Don't care. I prefer a proper café to a chain store, but I'm not their target demographic anyway.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
In case any of you have missed it, WAL 38.41 +0.77 (+2.05%) on the news of exiting Germany. Most companies are not as resilient.

If the stock hadn't rebounded after finally jettisoning a moribund campaign of that magnitude, it would have been severely troubling regarding the overall health of the corporation. So it's just business as usual. Their "before" stock price certainly reflected the dismal status of their recent expansion, so it just had to go up.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 38):
Wal Mart's business model did not work in Germany. But for Wal Mart to be Wal Mart, their business plan HAS to work. If you understood that about their supply chain and how Wal Mart operates it's stores you would understand it. But I guess you don't. You never shopped there because of your own perceptions.

Well, if Wal Mart's business model has to be unchanged when it is exported, and they aren't going to take into account the fact that it might not work in the locale chosen, whether it is because of regulations or any other number of factors, then Wal Mart was pretty da*n stupid for entering a market that wouldn't support its business model.

Unless of course you think the entire country should have changed so that Wal Mart's model could work.

I have shopped at Wal Mart, and have always found it to be a rather distasteful and unsatisfying experience.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 40):
Unless of course you think the entire country should have changed so that Wal Mart's model could work.

You got that impression, too...?  mischievous 
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 40):
Unless of course you think the entire country should have changed so that Wal Mart's model could work.

You got that impression, too...?

Sadly, I think that is exactly what he expected.

Wal Mart is both a good and bad example of American business. Their supply chain model - which works here - is very efficient, and they are effective at keeping prices low - both theirs, and their competitors. But their stores are hideously ugly, both inside and out, and when they've decided an older store location no longer meets their needs, they terminate the lease, move on to another larger and even more hideously ugly building, leaving the empty box of an old location vacant - sometimes for years.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:58 pm

Things like that happen over here, too (although maybe not as frequently). Not every chain turns out to be successful, but most of them at least try to differentiate themselves from the existing competition...

Low-margin retail is always a difficult sector, especially in a highly competitive environment.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 40):
Well, if Wal Mart's business model has to be unchanged when it is exported, and they aren't going to take into account the fact that it might not work in the locale chosen, whether it is because of regulations or any other number of factors, then Wal Mart was pretty da*n stupid for entering a market that wouldn't support its business model.

Unless of course you think the entire country should have changed so that Wal Mart's model could work.

I have shopped at Wal Mart, and have always found it to be a rather distasteful and unsatisfying experience.

The thing about Wal Mart's business model is that it CAN'T change. The model itself works extremely well. Unless you enter into a market that the marketplace insists that the model change. Wal Mart learns a great lesson here. But as I said before, the German consumer will lose. BTW Are those German Wal Mart employees transferring to Metro or are they being written off?
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:07 pm

If...

Quoting ClipperHawaii (Reply 44):
The thing about Wal Mart's business model is that it CAN'T change.

...then...

Quoting ClipperHawaii (Reply 44):
The model itself works extremely well.

...is simply not the case!

A good business case means it's either adaptable to targeted markets or it entails staying the hell out of markets it can't penetrate.

Quoting ClipperHawaii (Reply 44):
But as I said before, the German consumer will lose.

Lose what exactly? We've got plenty of outlets for cheap crap in Germany - even cheaper crap than at WalMart, to be precise.

Even "bargain"-hunters won't miss them at all. They had nothing the others didn't have and they left no mark on the market here.

Quoting ClipperHawaii (Reply 44):
BTW Are those German Wal Mart employees transferring to Metro or are they being written off?

For now they will be retained, as far as I know; But METRO is expected to restructure that branch soon, so it's quite possible that there will be cuts - or new hires, depending on the strategy chosen.

Look, I hope you'll be happy with your WalMart shares, but if one thing is certain, it's that WalMart isn't any more invulnerable than any other chain, probably the opposite, in fact. You might want to keep your portfolio diversified...

[Edited 2006-07-31 07:12:36]
 
Andreas
Posts: 5880
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 7:56 pm

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:35 pm

Funny how (not only on this Forum) a discussion about a ...well non-issue, let's face it, can turn into an ungly EU vs. US warfare simply by totally leavin FACTS out of it!

You know, facts, that is another word for things that really happened and can usually be measured or at least get their existence proven.

Wal-Mart made just about EVERY mistake they could find, and they really looked hard not to oversee one:

1. They didn't do their homeworks before starting up: German consumers are notorious "self-service" customers...they don't like having a packer at the cashier, someone who carries their stuff to the car, an employee that asks every 20 seconds "how are you today on this fine an sunny day". They just don't like it, basta!! And ONE look at the competitors would have indicated strongly that THIS IS the case.

2. Employees in Germany do not like that pseudo-religious behaviour like meeting the morning, singing hymns, praising the company founder etc. end, most of all, they extremely DISLIKE being told by their employer who to shag and who not!! Next big fat mistake, a good consultant could have told that beforehand.

3. They did't get the locations for their markets, only crappy ones far outside the urban zones...people do not travel that far to get the things Wal-Mart has to sell.

4. In order to speed things up they bought the German sub of a French company InterSpar/InterMarche, and bought themselves a bunch of totally dis-motivated employees, an organisational structure that was so bad that not even Metro wanted to touch them with a ten-foot-pole!!

5. They were never able to clean up that mess...even though pay was ok, they never managend to get that hostile attitude out of their employees!

6. And maybe the worst part: No numbercrunching, no controlling whatsoever, just like in the good old days when the founder of Wal-Mart kept his receipes in his garage! In the end their auditor REFUSED to sign their Financial statement, because he was unable to check it!!

7. They kept on repeating all these mistakes for 8 years!! 8 years in the deep-red...how's that sound in terms of shareholder value.

Funny I don't see ONE SINGLE argument that has to do with Wal-Mart hostile regulations in Germany.

And frankly I don't fear a loss of competition...the German market is one of extremely LOW margins, that is, low prices for customers...which isn't good either, at least not per se, but WalMmart for sure:

1. Totally misread the Target market,

2. Did not learn from start-up mistakes,

3. did not adapt their business model to the market.....and whoever says a good business model can be transferred to any country and repeated there as successful as on its home market, has no, repeat NO idea about basic economic principles...
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting ClipperHawaii (Reply 44):
The thing about Wal Mart's business model is that it CAN'T change. The model itself works extremely well.

It does, as long as you are willing to put up with the ugly stores and the landscape being littered with empty former Walmart locations they've decided to walk away from.

Quoting Andreas (Reply 46):
an employee that asks every 20 seconds "how are you today on this fine an sunny day". They just don't like it, basta!!

A lot of us in the US don't care for it either.

Quoting Andreas (Reply 46):
did not adapt their business model to the market.....and whoever says a good business model can be transferred to any country and repeated there as successful as on its home market, has no, repeat NO idea about basic economic principles...

 checkmark  couldn't have said it better myself.

One of the reasons McDonald's (yuck) IS successful overseas is that it adapts its menus to the countries it operates in. For example, the McDonald's in Austria have real bread in the morning, not the crap Micky D sells in the US.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:29 am

Wal Mart's July sales at stores open at least one year (same-store sales) increased 2.4 percent.

A lot of people are pleased with what Wal Mart brings to them. Price, selection, price.

If some don't want that. Eh, so be it. There are a lot of people who don't like Wal Mart with reasons that make little sense. There are a hell of a lot of people however, that love what they bring to the marketplace and Wal Mart will continue to serve those people well.

Hmmm Andreas, a lot of what you say about Wal Mart's failure is contributed by the actions and the dislikes of Germans themselves. (1., 2., 3., 4.)That's rather harsh coming from a German.  dopey 

In all seriousness, people just love/hate Wal Mart. And Wal Mart continues to get bigger and bigger.

An amazing company for sure.
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
racko
Posts: 4548
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 12:06 am

RE: Wal Mart Gives Up The German Market

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:22 am

What do we lose without Walmart? They were not cheaper, they didn't offer anything the others didn't and the markets will be transformed into Real stores. So who cares? We probably still have way more competition in this sector than most other countries, so I doubt that Walmart, not really a big player anyway, will leave any mark.

And frankly, every nation is different. If that makes us unworthy for you, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Lots of foreign and especially US companies had absolutely no problem to establish themselves on the market here, sometimes even as the market leader.

Walmart's failure will probably go down as one of the classy examples of how to not run a business.

And considering that you claim to be successful on the stock market you should know that the shares of Walmart suffered from the disaster the last 8 years and that it's only logical that they rose once Walmart got themselves out of the mess they have created with only a black eye.

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