LH526
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:15 pm

Hi one and all,

there's one point in that whole middle east conflict I didn't quite get:
What is the lebanese average people oppinion on the Hezbollah? Do they support them? Do most of the lebanese civilans hate them ... what's the overall situation?
For example, if you would be aware that there's are Hezbollah fighters living next door in your appartment block, or you have knowledge of weapon arsenals lying in a shelter just down the road, what's the average Lebanes person gonna do? Are they proud they have these freedom fighters as neighbours or would they tell them to f*** off?

I just want to get this position clear in my head before making any judgements and finding my own verdict.

I hope some lebanese in here can give their opinion on this.

Mario
LH526
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Beaucaire
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:35 pm

Hezbollah represents about 30% of the Lebanese population e.a. the Shi'ia Muslims.
While many Christian and Druse Lebanese don't agree with Hezbollah's role in starting the war,the overwhelming majority of Lebanese have a strong feeling of national pride and national identity.They feel while Shi'ia Muslims might be the trigger,the main responsibility lies with Israel in systematically destroying the Country.
Even Walid Jumblat,a strong opponent of Hezbollah,says the main issue now is to keep national consensus and identity-the discussions with Hezbollah should be held once the aggression is over-not now !
Most Lebanese have inevitably friends among different religious groups-but usually-specifically after the last war- the national unity has been re-inforced.
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casinterest
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
While many Christian and Druse Lebanese don't agree with Hezbollah's role in starting the war,the overwhelming majority of Lebanese have a strong feeling of national pride and national identity.They feel while Shi'ia Muslims might be the trigger,the main responsibility lies with Israel in systematically destroying the Country

Ans this is why the lebanese are now in a State of war. they are so blinded by intolerance and hatred towards Israel, that they won't blame the rabid dog in their own house.
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LH526
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 2):

Ans this is why the lebanese are now in a State of war. they are so blinded by intolerance and hatred towards Israel, that they won't blame the rabid dog in their own house.

It was not my intention to see this thread turned into yet another "you're the bad people" sort of flamewar, but I must admit that from that point it's very odd that some lebanese rather like to fight Israel and hate them for bombing their cities instead of "cleaning out" Hezbollah on their own, than they wouldn't be in the state they are in now ... on the other hand you can admit that Israel overreacted .... I'm fully pro Israel on that whole Issue but I also try to understand the other side before simply flaming them.
hezbollah might be a big national symbol of Lebanon ... but does that make them untouchable??

Mario
LH526
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OD720
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 2):
Ans this is why the lebanese are now in a State of war. they are so blinded by intolerance and hatred towards Israel, that they won't blame the rabid dog in their own house.

He asked Lebanese opinion. And who do you exactly represent?

The majority in Lebanon has called for the disarmament of Hezbollah since January 2006. This has been the main subject of the National Diologue on the future of Lebanon.
 
MD11Engineer
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting OD720 (Reply 4):
Quoting CasInterest (Reply 2):
Ans this is why the lebanese are now in a State of war. they are so blinded by intolerance and hatred towards Israel, that they won't blame the rabid dog in their own house.

He asked Lebanese opinion. And who do you exactly represent?

The majority in Lebanon has called for the disarmament of Hezbollah since January 2006. This has been the main subject of the National Diologue on the future of Lebanon.

So to evade disarmament and eventual disposal on the trash heap of history Hezbollah provoked a war and most Lebanese stand now closed together behind them? Nobody is asking to have them disarmed, because now they are the great "heros", who took on Israel, knowing very well that israel will hit back with everything they own?

Sounds like my grandfather, who condemned the officers, who tried to kill Hitler in 1944 as traitors. For him, during a war you'll have to stand behind the leader, no matter if he was the one who got you into the shit. Internal arguments for him had to wait until the war was over. Great, just have the war continue forever, so that the leader will never be accountable.

Jan
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edka
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:50 pm

[quote=OD720,reply=4]The majority in Lebanon has called for the disarmament of Hezbollah since January 2006. [quote]


OD720 - can you please answer whether you really believe that you as a country can dissarm Hezbollah?

Would i be correct in assuming that you are of Armenian descent and therefore not a Hezbollah supporter?
 
advancedkid
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:00 pm

From my understanding and one can easily research this.
Hezbollah captured the IDF soldiers on Lebanese side of the border.
The main aim is to use them as bargaining chips to release
several tens or hundreds of Lebanese and also Palestinans
in Israeli jails many of which I nelieve are also women and children, and are considered by the Israeli government jailed for adminstrative reasons, whatever this means.
In the past hezbollah and israel have traded prisoners this way. Maybe I am siding more towrds the Lebanese side
but from what I see, the Israelis are punishing Lebanon as a whole nd the entire civilian population for indirectly
and directly assisting hezbollah and would like to see UN resolution whatever 1559 (not sure of the number) to disarm hezbollah implemented. israel is pushing for it through this current conflict. First achievement was getting rid of Syrian troups, last year after PM Hariri's assasination (wich is widely believed to be a Mossad operation).

Back to the lebanese people why they don't really implement or support dissarming of hezbollah, it's because the national Lebanese army is weak and doesn't have enough resources comparing to hezbollah. However lebanon
i believe was / is on track to merge hezbollah and the national army. Afterall hezbollah are part of the lebanese people and not a bunch of outsiders, they share the same
lebanese heritage and pride with the rest of the lebanese people who only differ in religious backgrounds or political views. This conflict has proven that lebanon isn't as divided
as say Israel would have counted on. As a matter of fact, the Lebanese people now feel more in the same boat than ever before.
I would like to hear lebanese members comments on my view and correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.

Advanced
 
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casinterest
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting Advancedkid (Reply 7):
From my understanding and one can easily research this.
Hezbollah captured the IDF soldiers on Lebanese side of the border.

Wrong understanding.
Hezbollah launched an incursion into Israeli territory, killed 8 soldiers and captured two prior to returning to their side of the border.

Also during this time rockets were launched from Hezbollah positions into Northern Israel.

That is an act of war, and that is why what is currently occurring is going on.

The state of prisoners prior to this action is mute.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
MD11Engineer
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting Advancedkid (Reply 7):
Hezbollah captured the IDF soldiers on Lebanese side of the border.

The Israeli soldiers were captured in a long prepared raid (Nasrallah admitted this himself) INTO Israeli territory. Eight soldiers, who were pursuing the kidnappers to liberate their comrades were led into an ambush and killed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5180202.stm

A similar thing happened in the Gaza strip. There a several hundred meters long tunnel was dug under the border to attack an IDF post INSIDE Israel.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
OD720
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting EDKA (Reply 6):
Would i be correct in assuming that you are of Armenian descent and therefore not a Hezbollah supporter?

It seems that most people, at least here on A.net, think that the Lebanese support Hezbollah. Having strong resentment towards the Israeli actions in Lebanon does not mean support for Hezbollah!

If someone can go back a few years to my posts here, they've always been:Syrians out and Hezbollah active only in domestic politics, since they are Lebanese and represent part of the Shiias here.

You are right that I'm of Armenian descent. 100% proud Lebanese!
 
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casinterest
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting OD720 (Reply 10):
It seems that most people, at least here on A.net, think that the Lebanese support Hezbollah. Having strong resentment towards the Israeli actions in Lebanon does not mean support for Hezbollah!

The people as a WHOLE in lebanon did not do enought to stop Hezbollah from starting this . They as a WHOLE share the blame.

The individual stories of children, families and innocents dying, is tragic and cause for much anger and hurt.

However as a WHOLE lebanon is not capable of stopping Hezbollah, so their support is a silent but deadly one.
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rolfen
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:45 pm

This is a question that the hezbollah and co would like to blur... they dont want to hear the a answer about this one.
I have heard about a poll reporting that 90% of the lebanese support hezbollah (and it was even reported on CNN - here's for reliable reporting  no  ) , yet I still fail to find a reliable source.

Everyone seems to copy/paste that data that seems to have spawned out of nowhere.
rolf
 
OD720
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 11):
The people as a WHOLE in lebanon did not do enought to stop Hezbollah from starting this . They as a WHOLE share the blame.

Well my friend, no other nation in this region has faught this war and paid the price of it more than the Lebanese.

Who do you think was fighting a war against the PLO between 1975-1982?
Who was fighting a war against the Syrians between 1983-1990?
Who was struggling to get back their freedom from 1990 to 2005?

After all these, you STILL blame us? Shame on you!
 
LY744
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting Advancedkid (Reply 7):
Hezbollah captured the IDF soldiers on Lebanese side of the border.

No. See Eurostar's locked thread. Where do you people get that impression from?! Even the Hezbollah itself wouldn't claim that to a western audience.


Quoting Advancedkid (Reply 7):
several tens or hundreds of Lebanese and also Palestinans

According to that other thread there are THREE Lebanese prisoners in Israel. There were dozens more, but they were released in exchange for 3 IDF soldiers' bodies a couple years ago.  Yeah sure


LY744.
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Gman94
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:55 pm

So let me just clarify the logic of those that support Israel. We in the UK will be fully justified to flatten Dublin, Galway and Cork if the IRA attack us again?

It's shame the US didn't take such a strong stance against terrorism when some of their countrymen were giving money to the IRA. But at least we know that we would also be well within in our rights of self defense and bomb Boston and Chicago or anywhere else where people claim they are Irish American.
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windshear
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
So to evade disarmament and eventual disposal on the trash heap of history Hezbollah provoked a war and most Lebanese stand now closed together behind them? Nobody is asking to have them disarmed, because now they are the great "heros", who took on Israel, knowing very well that israel will hit back with everything they own?

The painful and awful truth...  Sad

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advancedkid
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting LY744 (Reply 14):
No. See Eurostar's locked thread. Where do you people get that impression from?! Even the Hezbollah itself wouldn't claim that to a western audience

No, when the war started I sited several news agencies reporting what you say is my impression.
I found one here http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap2873051.html
I was looking up other pages I rememberd on top of my head but the pages unfortunatly removed.
This one is in french http://fr.news.yahoo.com/12072006/20...s-israeliens-sept-autres-tues.html

Latest news is the UN posts being bombed by Israel, actually they tried sticking it to hezobllah too!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/07/21/AR2006072100157.html


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edka
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting OD720 (Reply 13):
After all these, you STILL blame us?

i think most people blame Hezbollah, but here is the answer below

Quoting OD720 (Reply 10):
since they are Lebanese and represent part of the Shiias here.

OD720 - if 30% percent of population (correct me if i'm wrong with numbers) of your country support this terrorist organisation and what their policies are, then you have a problem, and its up to you to deal with it. I simply do not follow the logic when people say, "yes they are a part of our country" but when they commit an act of war against other country, simply brush it as "well they did it, and 70% of my country are against them". They are either part of your country or they are not.

Put it this way: if lets say Morocan Jews or Russian Jews set up their own militia in Israel, go and kidnap 2 soldiers from Egypt and then kill another 8 and Egypt will attack Israel in retaliation to that? Do you think the rest of Israelis will say - hold on, but i do not support what they were doing? and it would be OK?
 
OD720
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 16):
The painful and awful truth...

So you chose to ignore the opinions of the Lebanese and took someone's own who's sitting at least a few thousand miles away from the conflict.

That's what I really call painful and awful.
 
11Bravo
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 15):
But at least we know that we would also be well within in our rights of self defense and bomb Boston and Chicago or anywhere else where people claim they are Irish American.

If the IRA starts launching missiles and rockets at targets in the UK from sites in Boston and Chicago, and the US either cannot, or will not, do anything to prevent it, then yes, the UK would have every right, indeed an obligation, to take whatever action required to stop the attacks on its citizens.

Of course that's an absurd proposition because, outside the Middle East, no self-respecting country in the world would allow such a thing to happen in the first place.

Comparisons between the conflict in Northern Ireland and the current situation in Lebanon are useless and irrelevant. The two situations are profoundly different in almost every aspect. Drawing conclusions about one from an examination of the other is utterly meaningless and worthless.
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Klaus
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Advancedkid (Reply 7):
last year after PM Hariri's assasination (wich is widely believed to be a Mossad operation)

Never heard of it - I have severe doubts that it's a "widely held" belief outside of those who'd love to blame Mossad for everything including 9-11.  crazy 

Smells like bullshit to me.

Israel could have no conceivable interest in deposing an explicitly Syria-critical lebanese PM, even as screwed-up as israeli strategies often are.

Quoting Advancedkid (Reply 7):
However lebanon i believe was / is on track to merge hezbollah and the national army.

Exactly the opposite, in fact. The lebanese army has been infiltrated with many hezbollah supporters, but the latest attempts to disarm Hezbollah clearly point into the exact opposite direction.

Sure, Hezbollah will gain in strength as a consequence of the current war, as they've done after the last israeli incursion into Lebanon, but I don't see any plausible way for Hezbollah to take over Lebanon without the other forces violently opposing that (which would result in a new civil war).

Sorry, but your entire post is inconsistent with every kind of reason and with every bit of information available.
 
edka
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
Smells like bullshit to me

No, i think they did it, and Assad must have paid for it...

these "widely believed" stories are just pathetic
 
baroque
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting LH526 (Thread starter):
I just want to get this position clear in my head before making any judgements and finding my own verdict.

I hope some lebanese in here can give their opinion on this.

Thank you for the comments from our Lebanese colleagues and those of a few of the outsiders. The other outsiders please try and stick to the thread and draw out information from those who understand Lebanon.

On that, a figure of 30% is given for Shia and that is then transferred (by some) to a box marked support Hez. My understanding is that many Shia do not support Hez but (especially after having the bejesus bombed out of them) a proportion of non-Shia do support Hez in at least some of its aims. Any more help there?
 
SlamClick
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 5):
Sounds like my grandfather, who condemned the officers, who tried to kill Hitler in 1944 as traitors. For him, during a war you'll have to stand behind the leader, no matter if he was the one who got you into the shit. Internal arguments for him had to wait until the war was over. Great,

That is a fascinating remark. Of course we have similar (if less extreme) sentiments here - that to criticise Bush and his policies is to dishonor the soldiers. Nonsense of course, but on the other hand dissension among our citizens on this issue IS perceived as a weakness of national will by Islamic Jihadists.

One thing westerners need to keep in mind when contemplating the nature of mideast wars and feuds is that they are more like a domestic dispute (between husband and wife) than they are like western-style war or diplomacy. Anyone who will intervene in the middle east will find themselves the enemy of BOTH sides.

The present war between Israel and Lebanon can be seen as the absolute frontline in a larger war between fundamentalist Islam that truly wants the whole world to go back a thousand years, and the 'western' culture that wants to press-on regardless, and with no apparent religious guidance. With that in mind, anyone who regards Israel's response as being excessive (and it probably is from some points of view) let me just say: You haven't seen anything yet. Wait ten years. Fifty years!

Because to stop the conflict either:

The fundamentalist Muslims will have to concede that secular law is senior to the law of Allah

or

The western world will have to acknowledge Allah and submit to his will. (as told to us by the Imam.)

I don't see either of those things happening.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
OD720
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting EDKA (Reply 18):
"yes they are a part of our country" but when they commit an act of war against other country,

I emphasised on the point that they have the right to be part of the political system and not have any other activities which don't serve Lebanon's interest.
Just to clarify: Shiias are 35% here and divided into 3, almost equal, groups: Hezbollah, Amal movement, and the neutrals.

Quoting EDKA (Reply 18):
Put it this way:...

Hezbollah's action (and their other actions in the near past) is unacceptable to us. We expressed no joy and it was widely codemned here. But codemnations don't solve problems. This doesn't mean that the ONLY way out is to bomb, which in my opinion will not achieve much for Israel. I'm a believer in deplomacy but deplomacy fails sometimes and when it does, then there is justification for the bombs.
 
MD11Engineer
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:16 am

I think that Israel wasted a big chance during the last year. During the time of the anti-Syrian "revolution" in Lebanon, the Israeli government should have made offers to the Lebanese one, like handing over the Sheeba farms and offering the Lebanese government assistance in disarming the Hezbollah (this mybe discreetly through third countries, as not to make the Lebanese government look like flunkies).

Another thought is that the plan for the current war have been lying in some drawer in the israeli general staff and have been activated (all targets already marked etc.). This plan just got activated after the kidnappings and one step followed the next automatically.
The air attacs are probably being carrired out to prevent Israeli ground troopsfrom being ground up again in a protacted guerilla war against an invisible enemy, like in the 1980s.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Beaucaire
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:20 am

LH526-
read this article-it gives a little idea on the complexities of Lebanese internal politics...
The important thing to remember nevertheless,is that Lebanon is a demorcatically elected parliament and government.
Some might not like Shi'ia -Hizbollah representatives in the Government-but that's the rule of democracy.The fact that you can organise very opposing mass-demonstrations against or for Syrian support ,shows that the democracy works in lebanon.

http://www.peacemagazine.org/archive/v21n2p06.htm
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MD11Engineer
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:25 am

No problem with POLITICAL parties of all factions in parliaments, let the extremists make fools out of themselves.
But having PRIVATE ARMIES, which are only responsible to themselves, their leaders and maybe a foreign sponsor is a different matter. This applies to Sin Fein and IRA or Herri Batasuna and the ETA as well. As long as any party has a military wing it can always blackmail and threaten the other parties with the threat of civil war or terror if there is a majority descision made it doesn't like.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Beaucaire
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:57 am

The T'aif accords foresaw the dismantling of all private militia and put the responsibility for this undertaking in the hands of the Lebanese Army.
But since the army was never really equipped to do so,Hizbollah filled a power-vacuum .Syria did obviously nothing to disarm those Shi'ia militia that were used to perpetrate Syria's grip on the country.

Details about the T'aif accord under:
http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/sib/3_05/taif_e.htm

Some info about Lebanon's Army..


http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=17049

as you can figure,there is no way the T'aif accords can be implemented,since the Official army is weaker than Hezbollah..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
MD11Engineer
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 29):
But since the army was never really equipped to do so,Hizbollah filled a power-vacuum

Then latest after the Syrian withdrawal the Lebanese government had the duty to ask for international assistance to disarm Hezbollah.

I imagine a similar situation with an armed militia of neo-Nazis trying to operate out of e.g. Eastern Germany to "liberate" the former German territories in today's Poland or the Czech Republic (there are idiots who are dreaming of something like this).
Either the German police or the army would move in, or if they couldn't you can bet that e.g. France and the other NATO countries would do whatever they deem to be necessary to stop the attacks, friendly assistance if the German government would ask them for help, or through an invasion if the German government would not react.
Anyway, since Germany of 2006 isn't the Germany of 1933 you'd probably have the majority of the population trying to stop the Nazis.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
LY744
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Advancedkid (Reply 17):
No, when the war started I sited several news agencies reporting what you say is my impression.
I found one here http://www.forbes.com/technology/fee....html

That link does not support what you said, it's just very poorly worded.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
11Bravo
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 29):
as you can figure,there is no way the T'aif accords can be implemented, since the Official army is weaker than Hezbollah..

Thanks for the links Beaucaire. I don't think anyone will argue that the Lebanese Army is currently capable of removing the para-military forces in southern Lebanon. That leaves basically two courses of action.

One, do nothing and continue to allow a situation where Hezbollah, and perhaps others, fight a war against Israel which will eventually destroy large parts of Lebanon, or .....

Two, take serious ACTION (as opposed to words) to remove para-military forces from southern Lebanon and eventually replace them with the Lebanese Army. This alternative almost certainly involves the presence of a large international force as an interim solution until the Lebanese Army is capable of doing the job itself.

Why are the official representatives of the Lebanese Government not at the UN, Paris, Berlin, or elsewhere, pleading for such a force?
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AsstChiefMark
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:32 am

Sounds like Hezbollah is like a massive cancerous tumor within Lebanon. Lebanon is too weak to irradicate the cancer, so Israel is performing invasive surgery and chemotherapy to try to kill it or at least keep it from spreading.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
EurostarVA
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:27 am

According to the latest Dailystar poll, support during warfare for Hezbollah in Lebanon following Israel's offensive is as follows, among the sectarian groups:

Muslim Shias: 97% support Hezbollah
Muslim Sunnis: 74% support Hezbollah
Maronite Christians: 54% support Hezbollah
Druze: 40% support Hezbollah
If there is a will, there is a way
 
semsem
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:38 am

Beaucaire no the Shias represent 40% of Lebanon; not 30%.
Had Hezbollah's Charter not called for the "destruction of Israel", allied itself with Iran our biggest enemy, and had Nasralah not "baited Israel" or killed 8 soldiers or kidnapped Israelis "on Israeli soil" maybe Israel would not have had to wage war.

[Edited 2006-07-29 20:42:13]
 
Beaucaire
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
Sounds like Hezbollah is like a massive cancerous tumor within Lebanon. Lebanon is too weak to eradicate the cancer, so Israel is performing invasive surgery and chemotherapy to try to kill it or at least keep it from spreading.

And where do you want to stop your surgery???
With 10,50 or 100 000 killed civilians ?
Because there is only a negotiated solution to the problem of the non-implementation of the T'aif agreements.
Dont forget -and that is a mistake many foreigners do ,not all Shi'ia supporters are supporters of terror activity.You simply make an equation Shi'ia =Terrorist = potential target for "surgery"...
I just saw the funeral of about 100 civilians in Tyr on French TV.Police in the area estimate several hundred bodies still buried under the rubble of villages currently inaccessible.Thre were Druse,Christian and Muslim clerics performing the burial- and the christian priest basically said they were all brothers and nobody hated Hezbollah for what they did - since they are the only ones who actually represent an armed force that is capable to prevent the Israelis to occupy Lebanon without heavy loss.
The approval rate for Shi'ia is actually raising among the non-muslim population.
You can not "surgically" remove 30-50 % of the Lebanese population,simply because they approve Hezbollah's actions.
The americans have a great responsibility for the non-implementation of T'aif -they knew precisely about the weakness of the Lebanese army. The withdrawal of the US Ambassador in Damascus was a very stupid move,since it removed an instrument for direct dialogue with Bashir.
The US have Ambassadors in other places that are not really a democracy ...
Coming back to your comment- it has been said by numerous ME experts- the more Martyr's you create in Southern Lebanon,the more future suicide-candidates you breed,that will ultimately operate under Al Q'aida licence and as rogue-elements.

[Edited 2006-07-29 21:20:45]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 36):
And where do you want to stop your surgery???
With 10,50 or 100 000 killed civilians ?

The Lebanese who want Hezbollah out need to get off their asses and do something about it. If my house is infested with termites, I'll try to exterminate them. If I can't do it myself, I'll call for help. But I'm not going to sit back and let them transform my home into dust.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 37):
The Lebanese who want Hezbollah out need to get off their asses and do something about it. If my house is infested with termites, I'll try to exterminate them. If I can't do it myself, I'll call for help. But I'm not going to sit back and let them transform my home into dust.

You are using the same rethoric as Himmler in 1935.....
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
turbo7x7
Posts: 242
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:58 am

Beaucaire, you're not going to get any sympathy from the hard-right U.S. partisans that dominate this board.

The Christian right and the "neocons" here in the U.S. have an ideological, not to mention economic, investment, in the supremacy of Israel in the region, whether it's sensible policy or not.

In any case, the Israelis have just handed over a HUGE favor to Hezbollah. A tiny group, has now successfully resisted and fought Israel LONGER THAN ANY LEGITIMATE ARAB GOVERNMENT EVER HAS.

If the Bush Admin. had immediately called for a temporary cease-fire, they could have avoided this PR fiasco. But Dubya is not one for nuanced strategy and this is why the ME is in such a mess today. . .

I'm afraid that, despite what my right-wing brethren ardently hopes for, the extremist voices in the region will end up stronger than ever once all this is over.

After all, the Bush Admin. is looking pretty impotent right now with the quagmire in Iraq. And that suggests to the major players in the region that the U.S. won't be able to do much with the Israel-Palestine and Israel-Hezbollah issues. . .
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting Turbo7x7 (Reply 39):
The Christian right and the "neocons" here in the U.S. have an ideological, not to mention economic, investment, in the supremacy of Israel in the region, whether it's sensible policy or not.

Your name-calling aside, I'm curious why you say that we have economic reasons for favoring Israel.

I'm pretty sure the petroleum we buy from Muslim nations in a single year exceeds all the business we've done with Israel since 1948.

So what is your explanation?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Beaucaire
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Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:17 am

Thanks for your warning,Turbo 7X7, I am not really fishing for sympathies among them....
Forums are a pretty useless form of investing your time -I must acknowledge ...
But you always learn something- sometimes that you are wrong in your assessments or opinions or that other people have the better argument. No problem for me to change my view if proved wrong !
But once you spend 20 years of your life in that region and you love the people and think you understand them (Israelis included..)-You don't really accept some nazi-style reply that equals lebanese citizens with termites...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Turbo7x7 (Reply 39):
In any case, the Israelis have just handed over a HUGE favor to Hezbollah. A tiny group, has now successfully resisted and fought Israel LONGER THAN ANY LEGITIMATE ARAB GOVERNMENT EVER HAS.

I'm glad you find such gratification in the death and suffering of others. At least you're true to human nature.  Yeah sure

And BTW, the Israeli-Egyptian war of attrition lasted at least 3 years. The Israeli-Syrian war of attrition following the Yom-Kippur war (which may not have been an all out war but was still more intense than this conflict) lasted about 6 months.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 41):
You don't really accept some nazi-style reply that equals lebanese citizens with termites...

I didn't say anything about Lebanon's citizens. I implied that Hezbollah are the termites. If Hezbollah is so deeply ingrained in Lebanon that their "soldiers" cannot be separated from the good and decent Lebanese, then Lebanon as a whole is in for rough ride.

Back to my example... If a house is so heavily infested by termites that they cannot be exterminated, then the only solution may be torching the house and rebuilding from the ground up.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 43):
I didn't say anything about Lebanon's citizens.

The 30 % of Shi'ia Hezbollah and their families representing the larger part of the Shi'ia population in Lebanon are Lebanese Citizens....
So that means for you ,30 % of the Lebanese are termites that must be eradicated...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting LY744 (Reply 42):
Quoting Turbo7x7 (Reply 39):
In any case, the Israelis have just handed over a HUGE favor to Hezbollah. A tiny group, has now successfully resisted and fought Israel LONGER THAN ANY LEGITIMATE ARAB GOVERNMENT EVER HAS.

I'm glad you find such gratification in the death and suffering of others. At least you're true to human nature.

Actually Turbo7x7 is being objective and made an extremely on-spot analysis of what's going on here. The truth is, the Israelis forces have been defeated by Hezbollah defence forces, who are now as popular as ever in the Arab world including Lebanon...This is not only my opinion but world press analysis including Israeli papers today.

Indeed Olmert, Halutz, etc. will refuse to accept this defeat and will elect to eliminate more civilians (since either they are cross-sighted, their American "precision" weapns malfunctioning, or plain and simple don't give a damn) and bomb the remaining Lebanese infrastructure in order to sell their people an Israeli "victory". More escalation, more violence... As Israel continues to reject a ceasefire. What war-mongering bunch...
If there is a will, there is a way
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 45):
Indeed Olmert, Halutz, etc. will refuse to accept this defeat and will elect to eliminate more civilians (since either they are cross-sighted, their American "precision" weapns malfunctioning, or plain and simple don't give a damn)

Civilians like this one? A Hezbollah Fighter's House (by LY744 Jul 29 2006 in Non Aviation)


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 44):
So that means for you ,30 % of the Lebanese are termites that must be eradicated...

Is there no such thing as QUITTING Hezbollah?

Is Hezbollah one of those organizations to can join, but can never leave?

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
rolfen
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 am

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:36 am

That's how I see it:
Most of the shia support the hezbollah.
A sizeable chunk of the christians are supporting hezbollah's actions now, that doesnt meant that it supports hezbollah's right to be armed in general.
The rest of the christians hate hezbollah to varying degrees, but it seems they have taken an attitude of "this is they war, they've been burning to fight it and they're so happy about it... let's stay out of their way. If they win it, good for them. If they loose, it would have taught them a lesson."

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 8):
Also during this time rockets were launched from Hezbollah positions into Northern Israel.

AFAIK rockets were launched at that time against border posts of the IDF. The rocket launching on civilians didnt start until israel started its destruction... that's what I heard

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 26):
like handing over the Sheeba farms

Yeah, would be nice. Nasrallah hinted though that he would keep his weapons even then. But it would have put more pressure on him inside the country... definitely.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
Sounds like Hezbollah is like a massive cancerous tumor within Lebanon. Lebanon is too weak to irradicate the cancer, so Israel is performing invasive surgery and chemotherapy to try to kill it or at least keep it from spreading.

Thought about that too.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 34):
According to the latest Dailystar poll, support during warfare for Hezbollah in Lebanon following Israel's offensive is as follows, among the sectarian groups:

Muslim Shias: 97% support Hezbollah
Muslim Sunnis: 74% support Hezbollah
Maronite Christians: 54% support Hezbollah
Druze: 40% support Hezbollah

Any link to that poll, please?
I urge everyone not to believe in this poll before a credible link is given
I seriously believe that this is psychological warfare. Warious "polls" have been floating around the net... and I was not able to find a source for any of them... people just keep repeating them around.

Note here that "support" doesnt mean that they support the hezbollah keeping its weapons after all this is over.
rolf
 
Aleksandar
Posts: 2937
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2000 11:43 pm

Lebanese Opinion On Hezbollah

Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting OD720 (Reply 10):
It seems that most people, at least here on A.net, think that the Lebanese support Hezbollah. Having strong resentment towards the Israeli actions in Lebanon does not mean support for Hezbollah!

Well, I'm not in that majority if one really exist here. Having similar experience with bombing, all I can say that one cannot get a clear picture about opinion on Hezbollah. Back in 1999, most were thinking that all Serbs support Milosevic which wasn't the case although it might have looked that way. What one can see is anger and frustration and in such situation, onobdy can simply stand up and give their piece of mind. First, it might be dangerous and second, it is not the most ethical thing to do in a state of war.
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