Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
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GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:58 pm

Seems there's growing pressure on the Bush Administration to get Israel to agree to an immediate cease-fire.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/31/hagel.mideast/index.html

Wonder who Mr. Bush would name as the "Statesman" to go to the Middle East, if he gave in. And that's certainly a rebuke to Condi Rice if I ever heard one.

Note: As stated before, I will not participate in those pre-fab threads on this issue, and in any event, this one is really outside the purview of those to begin with.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
CO7e7
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:02 pm

It's very interesting to hear something like that coming from a Republican such as Sen Hagel.... i wonder what W's response is gonna be!?
 
jaysit
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:38 pm

Its called political expediency.

Republican pollsters must be sending missives saying "distance yourself from this sinking ship - or else sink along with it."

Makes you wonder who's worse? The sinking ship with its crew still heavy in denial, or the rats jumping off of it in droves.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12495
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:18 am

Many Senators have probably been getting an earful from constitutants to do something to stop this mess before it engulfs the region in a wider war, including destroying Israel. Many Christians are getting killed in Lebanon too, and I suspect that is part of the issue. I also suspect that many fear that the USA will use the Israel-Hezebolah war as a way to go to war against Syria and Iran, something no sane person wants to see happen. It also ties in with our disasterous situation in Iraq, which at time goes on is becoming a Vietnam like for the USA. I am glad some GOP leaders are showing reason as to Bush and his failing and foolish policies.
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:26 am

On the other hand, there are 5 fingers...

Seriously,having Sen. Hagel,who OFTEN disagrees with the Prez,disagree again does NOT amount to "GOP Senators Disagreeing With Bush" unless you're going to count him as a separate senator each time he disagrees.

Frankly,my dear chap,I don't give a damn.

By the way,if ANYONE can negotiate ANYTHING remotely resembling peace in the Middle East,it is probably Dr. Rice: one of the finest,best-trained minds in the world.
gene
 
Klaus
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:05 am

The statements by Sen. Hagel sound reasonable and to the point. It would be good if his advice was heeded by the administration.

I'm just not getting my hopes up.
 
Klaus
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 4):
By the way,if ANYONE can negotiate ANYTHING remotely resembling peace in the Middle East,it is probably Dr. Rice: one of the finest,best-trained minds in the world.

That statement might have any traction had she exhibited any of that constantly alleged intelligence during her tenure under this administration.

Similar case to Colin Powell, also highly praised but never actually accomplishing (or even attempting) anything of note.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
The sinking ship with its crew still heavy in denial, or the rats jumping off of it in droves.

Heavy denial?????? The ship is on a true consistent course that has not reduced its speed one bit.(No waffling)

It's the rats that are worse. Enjoy swimming with rats if that's your thing!
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 7):
Heavy denial?????? The ship is on a true consistent course that has not reduced its speed one bit.(No waffling)

LOL.

Yes, indeed.

Much like the Titanic.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 7):
Heavy denial?????? The ship is on a true consistent course that has not reduced its speed one bit.(No waffling)

Nice one, CH. Very bold verbage.  bigthumbsup 

One problem-there's an iceberg dead ahead, there's no time to turn and Bush is out front yelling "I'm the King of the Worrrld!"  Big grin
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
One problem-there's an iceberg dead ahead, there's no time to turn and Bush is out front yelling "I'm the King of the Worrrld!"

 rotfl 
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
One problem-there's an iceberg dead ahead, there's no time to turn and Bush is out front yelling "I'm the King of the Worrrld!"

Sorry Falcon, wishing for an iceberg is not going to derail the ship of state. You may not like the cruise line but the problem is, you can't get off.

Enjoy the buffet and the juggernaut called Bush.

LOL
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):
One problem-there's an iceberg dead ahead, there's no time to turn and Bush is out front yelling "I'm the King of the Worrrld!"

Then it's taken 5 and half years to reach it, and we still haven't hit it yet. Ever hear about the boy who cried "wolf"?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Klaus
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 11):
Enjoy the buffet and the juggernaut called Bush.

Your lame and toothless lion isn't any more convincing than the oddly smelling fast food at the buffet.
 
dvk
Posts: 1017
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 12:18 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 12):
Ever hear about the boy who cried "wolf"?

That would be Bush, et al, regarding WMD's in Iraq.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
mrmeangenes
Posts: 555
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
That statement might have any traction had she exhibited any of that constantly alleged intelligence during her tenure under this administration.

Klaus,you may recall Ms Rice hasn't been Secretary of State very long-but she has a long history of involvement with diplomacy.

For example,when Germany re-united, there were extremely delicate negotiations required - at what amounted to "breakneck speed" for diplomats-in order to keep matters flowing smoothly,to give the Russians a chance to "exit with honor" from the Eastern section,and to prevent chaos.

Dr. Rice was part of those negotiations-working behind the scenes,as a diplomat should,and won high praise from her co-workers and superiors.

Given the singular lack of success of other negotiators over the past 56 years,I think it reasonable to wait and see before pronouncing anathema.
gene
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
Your lame and toothless lion isn't any more convincing than the oddly smelling fast food at the buffet.

Lame and toothless? That's some toothless lion considering all the tizzy some of you seem to have over Bush.

You may call Bush whatever you like but to call him a toothless lion is not quite correct I'd dare say.  yes 
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 12):
Then it's taken 5 and half years to reach it, and we still haven't hit it yet. Ever hear about the boy who cried "wolf"?

The Iraq "policy" is in tatters, the numbers of the Iraqi and American dead increase daily, the US is reduced to hiding in the Green Zone, Baghdad is a disaster, Republican Senators and Congressmen are trying their damndest to NOT be photographed with Bush in an election year, the reasons for this war have been shown to be a passel of lies, and yet you think that the SS Bush is all smooth sailing?

Gosh, even Condi Rice isn't that clueless.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
maury
Posts: 526
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 16):
You may call Bush whatever you like but to call him a toothless lion is not quite correct I'd dare say.

Oh, fun! How about: "Ultra-right-wing Christian reconstructionist wack-job?"

Who's next! Just remember: "toothless lion" is out of play.


Condi Rice is one of the greatest minds of all known history? Wow. Pity she's not a better...hmm, diplomat.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 15):
Klaus,you may recall Ms Rice hasn't been Secretary of State very long-but she has a long history of involvement with diplomacy.

Gorbatchev was the real driver there, so I have my doubts about the depth of skill required to step through open doors.

And the more public Rice became, the less impressive she looked regarding her political competence. Looks like a severe case of being overhyped.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 16):
Lame and toothless? That's some toothless lion considering all the tizzy some of you seem to have over Bush.

He sure can roar like there's no tomorrow, and the dumps he's leaving all over the place are world class, but other than that? Looks just like a huge mess with nothing positive to show for it, especially where it counts!

Quoting Maury (Reply 18):
Who's next! Just remember: "toothless lion" is out of play.

Hey, I can still use it, okay!?  mischievous 
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:39 am

Based on the article, the title of this thread is misleading.

It is only one "Republican" and that is the RINO Hagel.

Hagel has been opposing almost everything the President does since it gets him media attention and because he thinks he is going to be President come January, 2009.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 22):
Hagel has been opposing almost everything the President does since it gets him media attention and because he thinks he is going to be President come January, 2009.

Exactly!!!!

And neither W or Hagel can realistically do anything to solve this matter
which has been an ongoing struggle for decades.

This conflict can only be solved from there, not from Brussels or D.C.
That is unless the E.U. or the U.S. want to send in their military forces,
which I don't see happening. Look how many times we've been down
this "peace process" road in the past decades.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4007
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 7):

Heavy denial?????? The ship is on a true consistent course that has not reduced its speed one bit.(No waffling)

I could do some comeback to refute that, but that would involve stopping laughing!!  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
Man, whatever you're smoking, must be some gooood shit.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 7):

It's the rats that are worse. Enjoy swimming with rats if that's your thing!

What if you never got onboard?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 20):
It is only one "Republican" and that is the RINO Hagel.

Just to be sure: Is it required for a "true" republican to be consistently wrong about everything or is it permitted to be right on occasion?

Just because Hagel seems to be right about a few things at least...
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Dvk (Reply 14):
That would be Bush, et al, regarding WMD's in Iraq.

Along with every other western leader, Former Presidents Clinton and Bush 41, numerous Senators and Congressmen, most western intelligence agencies, and the UN. The argument was how to make him get rid of them, not whether he had them or not. Nice try at twisting however.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17):
The Iraq "policy" is in tatters, the numbers of the Iraqi and American dead increase daily, the US is reduced to hiding in the Green Zone, Baghdad is a disaster, Republican Senators and Congressmen are trying their damndest to NOT be photographed with Bush in an election year, the reasons for this war have been shown to be a passel of lies, and yet you think that the SS Bush is all smooth sailing?

Well that's a whole boatload of OPINION.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4007
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 24):

Well that's a whole boatload of OPINION.

Aren't approval polls? Those seem to be taken pretty seriously for the most part, and sure don't show the rosy (delusional) picture clipper is painting.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 24):
Along with every other western leader, Former Presidents Clinton and Bush 41, numerous Senators and Congressmen, most western intelligence agencies, and the UN. The argument was how to make him get rid of them, not whether he had them or not.

Attempt about #795 to repeat this blatant lie.

Your president claimed that everybody shared his presented opinion on the alleged iraqi WMDs, knowing this to be false.

Apart from the fully subverted US press and opposition almost nobody shared the opinion that it was even halfway likely that Iraq possessed an actually dangerous WMD program.

Many allied intelligence services even relayed their own information to that effect to the CIA and to the White House, where those informations were simply discarded even though they were publically known in other countries.

Hence the insistence of pretty much everybody else on the UN inspection process to complete as a precondition of any further steps.

Your claim is clearly designed to save some of the face you seem to believe you've still got left, but that's simply not the case.

The emperor is naked, and we can't stand to look at the pityful mess any more, so please stop embarrassing yourself by describing the pretty colours of your imaginary dress!  yuck 

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 24):
Nice try at twisting however.

Indeed!
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:50 am

As I've said many times before, if I presented you with nothing but bad news about any situation for 3 years, what would you believe. The facts remain that Saddam is out of power, the Iraqis have a new Constitution, as well as a new government. The country is being rebuilt and the insurgency has suffered major defeats in the past few months. The press hates reporting good news, especially if it has to do with Iraq so you have to listen to those soldiers and airmen that are coming back. They tell a good story and believe in what they are doing.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Klaus
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RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:53 am

I see you're diverting now. Good choice.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4007
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 27):
As I've said many times before, if I presented you with nothing but bad news about any situation for 3 years, what would you believe. The facts remain that Saddam is out of power, the Iraqis have a new Constitution, as well as a new government. The country is being rebuilt and the insurgency has suffered major defeats in the past few months. The press hates reporting good news, especially if it has to do with Iraq so you have to listen to those soldiers and airmen that are coming back. They tell a good story and believe in what they are doing.

Iraq is far from the only issue contributing to overall evaluation and perception. An important one, but not the only one....and they certainly cannot all be the victim of that (of course) 'media bias'. Come on.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:15 am

[

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
Attempt about #795 to repeat this blatant lie.

I can start digging up the quotes, some from your own leaders if you wish.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
I see you're diverting now. Good choice.

Did I quote you? How do you know that post was intended for you?

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 29):
Iraq is far from the only issue contributing to overall evaluation and perception

Name another one. Don't hear anybody trying to claim the economy is in a shambles, because it isn't. I do hear weak appeals to repeal the tax cut although that has and is proving to work based on tax reciepts. Even the "Republicans are corrupt" didn't gain any traction since most everyone knows the democrats are just as bad. So let's hear it. What else do you have?

The media in this country is and as been biased for years. It's completely evident everyday that they want to see democrats back in power and will do anything they can to help to include fabricating stories, i.e. Dan Rather, present pictures completely out of context, i.e. the children being pulled from the rubble of a building in Lebanon that collapsed 8 hours after being bombed, to protecting democrats like William Jefferson while all but declaring Tom Delay guilty before any trial was held. Unfortunately since most people would have trouble locating Washington D.C. on a map much less Baghdad, they get their news in bites and believe smilin Katy and the like. Sad but true.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4007
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 30):
Name another one.

Katrina was a huge one, which left a lasting impact on the minds of many Americans...refute as you may.

The push for the marriage definition amendment a few months ago polarized and angered many, not only for Bush's support, but the general right-wing congressional priority meter.

The Bush veto of the stem cell bill was extremely damaging to his perception in the eyes of most Americans.

Have you been living under a rock, Gilligan?

Edit: or on an uncharted desert isle? Wink

[Edited 2006-08-02 04:25:52]
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
texdravid
Posts: 1415
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting B757300 (Reply 20):
Based on the article, the title of this thread is misleading.

It is only one "Republican" and that is the RINO Hagel.

Hagel has been opposing almost everything the President does since it gets him media attention and because he thinks he is going to be President come January, 2009.

That is the most correct thing said on this thread.

One cannot deny Bush has made many mistakes and will make many more before 1/20/09, but to the left he is the devil incarnate. Hey, A.net if that is what helps you get to sleep at night, more power to you.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 31):
Katrina was a huge one, which left a lasting impact on the minds of many Americans...refute as you may.

There is so much blame to go around for Katrina from the Federal level right on down to the individual level that it is pointless to even go into the argument. Suffice it to say anybody who lives in NO today had better realize that if they say a hurricane is coming, it's time to leave. To say or to even intone that the whole mess rests with the President is just ridiculous.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 31):
The push for the marriage definition amendment a few months ago polarized and angered many, not only for Bush's support, but the general right-wing congressional priority meter.

Support for that generally remains very high among hetrosexuals. Don't see where you are getting information to the contrary.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 31):
The Bush veto of the stem cell bill was extremely damaging to his perception in the eyes of most Americans.

Agreed, that was a mysterious veto, but since he doesn't have to run for election again he can afford to payoff those that got him elected.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4007
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 33):
Support for that generally remains very high among hetrosexuals.

Then how come it couldn't get anywhere at all in congress? Should i look for The Unambiguously Gay Senators coming to NBC this fall? The support for a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT is not very high, and it's failure demonstrates this.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: GOP Senators Breaking With Bush On ME Crisis

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:11 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 30):
I can start digging up the quotes, some from your own leaders if you wish.

There aren't any that supported the assumption you're operating under.

A theoretical possibility was widely assumed, hence the UN inspections. And there was strong support and pressure on Saddam for the inspections to proceed.

An urgent threat - which is what you were insinuating - was not just not perceived but several of Bush's pretenses for it were even publicly debunked by the allies before his infamous state of the nation address where he nevertheless presented them anyway.

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