deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:35 pm

Figured it was ok to start a new thread since the older one was about the results of high levels versus these new charges.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2535787

Confirmed by RTE at http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0801/landis.html for our good buddy Yak42.

Hmm...too much testosterone because he has a nutsack the size of the Texas Panhandle? I think not. Synthetic testosterone in the blood is the culprit. The B sample doesn't even have to be tested now they say but it still may be.

If true then I say shame on you Phugly Phonak Phloyd. You are a cheat and a liar. May you never race again and be sent home to sulk about how everyone was out to get you and it isn't your fault. Since the riders traditionally let the guy in the lead after the 19th stage cruise to victory in the 20th stage you have made a mockery of the sport by leading us to believe you were the best out there. You denied us the chance to see the other riders actually try to win the race on the last day. You denied the second place guy who will most likely now become the winner the chance to bask in the glory of winning the Tour while riding through the streets of Paris. You a disgrace to your sport and athletes around the world.

In all fairness though if you are found to be clean then sorry about what I said above and "Screw the French!" though I'm sure I won't have to apologize to you.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
TWFirst
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:01 am

I heard he has fake boobs too...
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:11 am

To me it will just confirm that the 'sport' of cycling is so tainted, that it cannot ever be clean, and therefore will die in interest. I suspect that is why we have less interest in many Olympic type sports as well. Athletes in almost all sports will do any thing now to win, the hell with if it will make a female grow a penis or a guy grow breasts or make any of them die before they are age 50 of some cancer or heart disease.
 
Roger136913
Posts: 461
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Thread starter):
Hmm...too much testosterone because he has a nutsack the size of the Texas Panhandle? I think not. Synthetic testosterone in the blood is the culprit. The B sample doesn't even have to be tested now they say but it still may be.

The results of the B test will be in on Saturday.
 
deltagator
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 3):
The results of the B test will be in on Saturday.

But it doesn't matter now. According to the cycling body's rules (as theye have been expalined to me) the test showing the presence of synthetic testosterone trumps the B test that could clear up whether his levels were too high or naturally occuring.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Roger136913
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:26 am

Acccording to the AP if the B test is negitive he keeps his title.
 
deltagator
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 5):
Acccording to the AP if the B test is negitive he keeps his title.

Interesting. But then I believe the other test might allow it to be stripped from him and most definitely given a ban from competition.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Roger136913
Posts: 461
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:40 am

The rules say that it is a violation, but if you can show that the athlete had no fault or no significant fault, there could be a mitigation of the sanction," Wadler told the Times. "No matter how it got there, the athlete has to show how it got into his or her body. It could have been sabotage or contaminated dietary supplements, or something else, but they have to prove how the testosterone got there.

I think he will lose the title myself.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:48 am



...now that's all natural ....
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Gilligan
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:21 am

Even if he is stripped a Spainard will get the title so the French don't have anything to crow about.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:57 am

The French public couldn't care less if it is a Spanish,American ,Italian or German athlete who wins- as long as he's clean-it's all that counts.
TV and media are very neutral and applaud performance regardless of nationality.The idea that the french public is anti-whatsoever is wrong.
The crowd applauded Floyd Landis on the Champs Elysées as if it would be a French cyclist.
Some French might be very coco-rico ,but the overall majority just appreciates good sportsmanship..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Gilligan
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
The idea that the french public is anti-whatsoever is wrong.

After the seven year conquest to find anything, anything, even if it had to be semi-fabricated, on Lance Armstrong, that is a disingenuous statement at best.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
frequentflyer
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 11):
After the seven year conquest to find anything, anything, even if it had to be semi-fabricated, on Lance Armstrong, that is a disingenuous statement at best.

Take a pill.

Throughout those 7 years Lance was cheered my the French public in each race.
Take off and live
 
WellHung
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:44 am

Take this douchebag and Bodie Miller and ship them both off to Gitmo. Both have disgraced their country.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:54 am

It's still all traceable to the NYT and their unnamed source. In view of the problems that the NYT has had in the past with unnamed sources and an over imaginative reporting crew, that report's in the round file. It and two bits might buy a cup of coffee.

Was this the first time unnamed sources at the french anti doping agency had smeared the reputation of a cyclist? Of course not.

And you know something else? I just don't care. I see it as no different than the time honored tradition of cheatin' in NASCAR. A lot of people have done it, the greatest of the crew chiefs were masters of the art, when the ruse was discovered they'd get their peters spanked, pay a fine and move on. Get over it.

That bottle of testosterone, if one exists, did not get Floyd Landis across the line after 2000 plus miles of cycling-Floyd Landis did.

You know that it amazes me....self proclaimed jocks with messy personal lives who hang around so called sports bars are willing to crucify this or that person, waive aside sexual abuse and robberies on the part of this or that basketball players and footballer players who've done atrocious things....well, fuck them all, jointly and severally.

They're idiots who couldn't run across the street to get another beer, for heaven's sake. Piss on them-they're not worthy to carry Floyd's jockstrap.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
COEXpilot
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:58 am

They all do something.. Just like all football players do, just like all baseball players do, just like all hockey players do.. Pro sports players, that is..
Workin Hard and Flying Right with my eyes on the prize. Retirement.
 
COEXpilot
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:59 am

They all do something.. Just like all football players do, just like all baseball players do, just like all hockey players do.. Pro sports players, that is..
Workin Hard and Flying Right with my eyes on the prize. Retirement.
 
Confuscius
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:03 am

"...Has Fake Testosterone."

Does that make him a woman?


...now that's all natural ....

Glad to know Mr. Squirrel is back! BTW, where's Sophiemaltese?
Ain't I a stinker?
 
2H4
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:12 am




Quoting COEXpilot (Reply 16):
They all do something..

Not true.




2H4


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COEXpilot
Posts: 100
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18):
Quoting COEXpilot (Reply 16):They all do something..
Not true.




2H4

Ohhh shit.. Come on.. Who doesn't? The kickers in the NFL? Alright, you got me there..
Workin Hard and Flying Right with my eyes on the prize. Retirement.
 
2H4
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:25 am




Quoting COEXpilot (Reply 19):
Ohhh shit.. Come on.. Who doesn't?

It's pretty careless to make a blanket statement like that about thousands of people around the world. Even if 75% of them were proven beyond a doubt to be dopers, that doesn't automatically make the remaining 25% guilty. It's very ignorant to make such a generalization.




2H4


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COEXpilot
Posts: 100
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
It's pretty careless to make a blanket statement like that about thousands of people around the world. Even if 75% of them were proven beyond a doubt to be dopers, that doesn't automatically make the remaining 25% guilty. It's very ignorant to make such a generalization.

I suppose you are right... I kinda meant "a lot" of players do.. whatever, it's pointless to argue about this.
Workin Hard and Flying Right with my eyes on the prize. Retirement.
 
2H4
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:50 am




Quoting COEXpilot (Reply 21):
it's pointless to argue about this

I'm just making the point that, in addition to nailing the cheaters, we need to be encouraging clean competitors.

It won't be easy to flush out the dopers, but I think we're on the right track. I also think cycling in particular deserves at least some credit for finally coming down so hard on the cheaters. It would be nice if other sports followed suit.

Clean competition is possible....I think it would be a mistake to give up on the sport(s) entirely.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
ltbewr
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:35 pm

I think what needs to happen is to criminally prosecute those athletes who are found to have used performance enhancing drugs, as well as their doctors, trainers or others around them that supply them. Maybe some jail time for the dopers and their 'friends' whom have broken the laws as to drugs, committed fraud, causing long term health risks and so on will make a bold lesson.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 22):
I'm just making the point that, in addition to nailing the cheaters, we need to be encouraging clean competitors.

It won't be easy to flush out the dopers, but I think we're on the right track. I also think cycling in particular deserves at least some credit for finally coming down so hard on the cheaters. It would be nice if other sports followed suit.

Clean competition is possible....I think it would be a mistake to give up on the sport(s) entirely.

One phrase that's being tossed around is "chemical McCarthyism". There's an interesting piece in the WSJ online today which suggests that rather than being accurate, the error rate on the tests in question is substantial.



Fair use excerpt:

Cycling union doctor Mario Zorzoli told me by telephone that Mr. Landis's test was the only positive one on the tour, out of six to eight tests for each stage, and at least five other tests for Mr. Landis on the days he was the overall race leader. That suggests that only once during the race, out of at least six tests, was Mr. Landis's T/E ratio 4/1 or higher.

Fair use excerpt about the CIR test:

A new wrinkle: The New York Times, citing an unnamed person at the cycling union, reported Monday night that a follow-up test confirmed Mr. Landis's urine contained some testosterone not produced naturally by his system. This result would have been determined by analyzing the atomic makeup of the testosterone molecule, via a technique called mass spectrometry. (Read more about this on Wikipedia.)

Such an analysis is based on the phenomenon that atoms of a given element, such as carbon, can have differing weights, depending on which subatomic particles make them up. The Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry reportedly used on Mr. Landis's urine would measure the ratio of Carbon-13 to Carbon-12 in his testosterone, and compare that to the ratio in his cholesterol. Natural testosterone in the body is derived from cholesterol, and so it should have the same ratio of C-13/C-12, but synthetic testosterone would have a different profile.

Dr. Thevis, from the Cologne sports lab, told me this method is reliable: "There have been a lot of studies showing that differentiation is absolutely reliable and reproducible." Dr. Zorzoli declined to confirm the Times report, but, speaking generally, said, "If the case is on the evidence of exogenous testosterone, alcohol intake doesn't create exogeneous testosterone in body."

But a more-cautious note was sounded by Dr. Davis, who is now the technical director for Mass Spec Solutions Ltd., a Wythenshawe, U.K., maker of mass-spectrometry devices. "Quite regularly there are errors in the isotope tests," he said. "It's a very difficult analytical technique."

In response to the report, Dr. Kay told the Times the test may have been inaccurate, adding that a wide range of factors, including alcohol consumption, may have been responsible for the test result.




http://online.wsj.com/public/article...20060831.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Bobster2
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:59 am

I agree with most of the WSJ article, but I don't know how they found an "expert" to say there is a problem with the isotope ratio test. That test is the killer. Modern state-of-the-art mass spectrometers can do isotope ratios with complete certainty. That is the reason why no "B" test is needed to confirm.

Also, a Google search for "Mass Spec Solutions Ltd" turns up essentially nothing, just a phone number. Why couldn't the WSJ find any published data to support this? Why no other "experts" besides just this one?

So far the isotope ratio test accusation is based on that one NYT article. But if it turns out to be true, Landis is finished.

[Edited 2006-08-02 23:18:02]
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
deltagator
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:48 am

So long cheater! You are a disgrace to America and a worthless piece of crap for your win at all costs attitude.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2539409

Confirmed by RTE at http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0805/landis.html
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4260
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
To me it will just confirm that the 'sport' of cycling is so tainted, that it cannot ever be clean, and therefore will die in interest. I suspect that is why we have less interest in many Olympic type sports as well. Athletes in almost all sports will do any thing now to win, the hell with if it will make a female grow a penis or a guy grow breasts or make any of them die before they are age 50 of some cancer or heart disease.

Why do you have 'sport' in quotations? Are you saying cycling is hardly a sport? Cycling requires more physical stamina than the most popular 'sports' in the US (Baseball, football and NASCAR). I've never seen a cyclist with a gut  Yeah sure Calling NASCAR a sport is a total joke.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:56 am

You know, I've spent a lot of time thinking this problem over in the last few days.

There are very few ways this whole story makes sense, because we pretty much know that a jolt of testosterone won't prove a pick me up like a few lines of coke would.

We also know that at this point that either he took the stuff, or it was slipped to him.

He took something like 15 or so piss tests in the race and all of them came up negative except one-which suggests that wherever the testosterone came from, it was during the course of the race.

If he really had no physical use for this stuff, it leaves you with two supportable conclusions: One, that he thought it would improve his mental performance to a degree that it was worth the risk, or one supportable conclusion, and that is that he was sandbagged. The whole scenario has setup written all over it. The sophisticated user of performance enhancing drugs just would never pull a stunt like this and expect to slide by...

Now work with me a minute here.

If cheating is as commonplace in cycling as everyone seems to think, one could cheat overtly by tipping the can as the drag racers say, or alternatively by eliminating a competitor with a bogus drug test..... how difficult would it be to spill a bit of the stuff on the seat of his bike or in his gloves before the start of the race....or what about all those folks up near the finish line tossing bottles of water at the riders? A little testosterone mixed with DMSO in a bottle of water, and Bob's your uncle. A bit spilled on his shoe?

It could have been done very easily, and that is the only way it makes sense to me.

Until you eliminate THAT as a source of contamination, you have an open question that will not be answered by a bunch of sports bar yahoos who get winded pulling their pants up who are now howling for blood like the fools that they are.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
greasespot
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 28):
ecause we pretty much know that a jolt of testosterone won't prove a pick me up like a few lines of coke would.

Ummm actually testosterone will help with recovery...He bonked the day before and need help with recovery.....
He saw the tour slipping away and got desparate....took a chance and now got caught....now take it like a man...

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 28):
If cheating is as commonplace in cycling as everyone seems to think, one could cheat overtly by tipping the can as the drag racers say, or alternatively by eliminating a competitor with a bogus drug test..... how difficult would it be to spill a bit of the stuff on the seat of his bike or in his gloves before the start of the race....or what about all those folks up near the finish line tossing bottles of water at the riders? A little testosterone mixed with DMSO in a bottle of water, and Bob's your uncle. A bit spilled on his shoe?

So what your saying is there is a conspiracy.....somehow sports conspiracy's are ok while 9-11's are not  wink 

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 27):
Calling NASCAR a sport is a total joke.

It is too a sport...a Non-Athletic Sport Centered Around Rednecks. :P
 
Bobster2
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 28):
Now work with me a minute here

Nobody knew in advance that he would get a drug test that day. Why would the alleged conspirators happen to pick that day to spike him with the drug? It looked like he was out of contention. If they did it at the finish it would be too late to show up in the post-race testing. Why dose the guy when he looked like loser?

His story about getting drunk the night before is consistent with his knowledge of guilt, and it sounds like he was creating an alibi in advance. Why else would he get drunk? How does alcohol help his performance? Alcohol is suicide for an athlete of that class.

Plus the fact that he keeps changing his story and making up new excuses. And none of them work because he can't explain the isotope ratio test.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
2H4
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:16 am




Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 31):
Why else would he get drunk?

Every report I've read says he had one (1) beer, and a small amount of whiskey. He was not drunk.

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 31):
Plus the fact that he keeps changing his story and making up new excuses.

I've been following this story pretty closely, and he hasn't appeared to "change his story", or "make up new excuses". He has only ever supposed the results could be attributed to one factor or another, and has searched for a valid explanation from the start.

The fact is, there is a valid possibility he is innocent. Is it a small possibility? Yes, very small. Is it still a possibility? Yes, it is.

Until the hearings are over and every potential explanation has been thoroughly examined, I will refrain from labeling him guilty or innocent. Most of you would do well to follow suit.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
Bobster2
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 32):
Every report I've read says he had one (1) beer, and a small amount of whiskey.

My reports say two (2) beers and at least four (4) whiskeys.

Here's one report: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...onal/spiegel/0,1518,429321,00.html
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:12 pm




Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 33):
My reports say two (2) beers and at least four (4) whiskeys.

Interesting. We've got conflicting quotes from the man himself:

Quoting Bobster's Article:
Landis, during a press conference last Friday, denied having taken performance-enhancing drugs. He said "two beers and at least four whiskeys" had caused his testosterone level to rise.



Quoting 2H4's Article:
Landis was quoted at the time as saying that he'd only had one beer and a small amount of Jack Daniels later on.

2H4's Article

Nevertheless, I will still refrain from labeling him guilty or innocent until the hearings are over and every potential explanation has been thoroughly examined.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 29):
So what your saying is there is a conspiracy.....somehow sports conspiracy's are ok while 9-11's are not

GS

I didn't say anytrhing of the sort.

What I said was that it is a possible theory that is not easily explained by pillorying the guy. In my line of work that's what we call a reasonably credible scenario that must be eliminated if you're going to punish the guy. Have you seen the film of the last four or five miles of the stage?

People cheat in different ways, one of which is by discrediting or disabling their opponents. Does the name Tanya Harding mean anything to you?

What the hell does 9-11 have to do with any of this anyway?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:48 am

Notice the similarity?





Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
deltagator
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:51 am

Phloyd has gotten nothing on Milton. Phloyd is just plain fugly with a capital F.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 31):
Nobody knew in advance that he would get a drug test that day. Why would the alleged conspirators happen to pick that day to spike him with the drug? It looked like he was out of contention. If they did it at the finish it would be too late to show up in the post-race testing. Why dose the guy when he looked like loser?

Who knows? I'm not willing to sit in judgment without all the facts at my disposal. At this remove it just doesn't add up. I think we need some pro athletes who are not weightlifters to weigh in here and give us some informed opinion.

And I'm not willing to speculate on what might be going through someone's mind somewhere. If cheating is as rampant in pro cycling as we've been led to believe, anything is possible, it seems.

A little DMSO will carry nearly anything through the skin in a matter of seconds. Back a few years ago when everyone was touting the stuff as some sort of miracle cure all one could taste garlic in about fifteen seconds from the time it touched the skin.

That also does not negate the possibility that his bike was sabotaged....or that something happened when the camera was not on him....it's worth reading Bob Roll's diaries on the subject of what people do when the camera's not on them.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 35):
What the hell does 9-11 have to do with any of this anyway?

Just illustrating the hypocracy that when it comes to sports, a conspiracy theory is ok.....but when it is related to 9-11 it is taboo...

yeah the difference is Nancy kerrigan saw someone hit her....not a phantom knee breaker......

This guys testosterone level is measured as to high. not a little bit bit way to high and it is syntheic testo.........Everyone uses the same tests and are subjected to the same test and testing criteria....Before he was caught the tests were somehow ok when they caught the "other guy"...Now that he has been busted they are somehow not valid....Go figure

This is a cheating team (tyler hamilton was the last leader) and i hope it is sanctioned as well. They have already lost their sponsor.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
Bobster2
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:32 am

If we assume Landis told the 100% truth, then he's essentially endorsing the consumption of alcohol the night before a major sports competition. That in itself is despicable. He's using himself as an example of a world class athlete who can consume a relatively large amount of booze after bonking a strenuous race without it hurting his performance the next day. I can just imagine gullible or stupid young athletes using Landis as an excuse for them to drink. (To say nothing of the possibility that his phenomenal performance was an endorsement for testosterone.)

Show me evidence of other world class athletes consuming that much alcohol before winning the most important competitions of their lives and then advertising to the world the fact that they did it. (Maybe Babe Ruth?   ) If you can do that maybe I'll get over one of my accusations against Landis.

And the whole alcohol thing is irrelevant to the drug test, but it's relevant to Landis being despicable. Alcohol doesn't explain synthetic testosterone. He didn't have to give the alcohol excuse, it didn't help his case.

[Edited 2006-08-07 22:34:42]
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Floyd Landis Has Fake Testosterone

Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 29):
Ummm actually testosterone will help with recovery...He bonked the day before and need help with recovery.....
He saw the tour slipping away and got desparate....took a chance and now got caught....now take it like a man...

It doesn't work that way.

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 33):
My reports say two (2) beers and at least four (4) whiskeys.

This is enough to generate synthetic testosterone levels.

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 40):
If we assume Landis told the 100% truth, then he's essentially endorsing the consumption of alcohol the night before a major sports competition. That in itself is despicable.

When you have a bad day, do you have a drink? If not, there are plenty who do.

Several points:

1. Synthetic Testosterone can come from numerous things, it is not "synthetic" in the typical use of the word. It's simply non-biological matter in the biological matter be it blood or urine.
2. Quick doping doesn't work as many have described. You're either on the shit or off of it.
3. He had a total of 8 dope tests in the race. 5 urine tests, 3 blood tests. Of those only one urine sample came back positive in the midst of this testing.
4. He was authorized cortisone shots for his hip - hip pain is likely what caused him to bonk. Cortisone can create synthetic readings in a radioscopic test - this does not make it synthetic testosterone, it only shows a synthetic material in the system. The rest of his reading is completely subjective. It's a ratio of testosterone levels. If your base level is low, and you spike - say after a race in 100 degree weather where some jackass reporter gets in your face getting you a bit pissed off - this will cause a spike in the ratio. If your base level is high, you are able to hide any type of injection you might be taking better than someone with a lower base. Either way, Landis showed a low base level, likely due to dehydration in previous days and a high epitestosterone reading, typical of recent physical exertion.
5. Improper storage or handling can cause a spike in the ratio.
6. An improperly calibrated Radioscope can cause an anomaly in the synthetic reading. The level was incredibly high and any subsequent urine or blood test would have revealed a similar reading, but at a lower level of concentration. It takes at least 3-4 days to dump it from your system. His post time trial test would have been positive as well. This woudl have been his next dope test as he regained the Yellow Jersey. It also likely would have shown up in the blood test at the end of the race. The blood test exposes everything, but it is more costly. Either way, the blood test is far superior to the urine test.
7. Dehydration can cause a variable ratio reading in a piss test for up to a week.
8. The fact that UCI released the information for fear of the lab going public first reeks of an inherent problem in the system and raises the question of lab integrity. I'm nopt calling it a conspiracy, just pointing out a problem with the system itself.
9. They want to stop this (because doping does occur), it's simple. Take a blood sample on day one from every rider. Take a blood sample from everyone that places in each stage, or takes a jersey. Blood test everyone on the off days. Take random blood samples throughout the race. Blood test everyone at the end of the race. You can piss in a cup all day and keep guessing how to draw a proper conclusion, or end the issue.

In a nut shell, I'll take the accuracy of three blood tests - one taken after the piss sample that failed and two before - over one piss test any day of the week. Too many variables in the piss test.

[Edited 2006-08-08 20:42:51]

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