Beaucaire
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Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:33 pm

Abdelasis Duweik,President of the Palestine Parliament,has been arrested yesterday by Israeli Security Forces.
Duweik used to teach as Professor for Geography at the University El Nadschah
So far 64 members of Hamas including 8 ministers and 26 elected members of the Parliament have been arrested .
The question is how can the Palestinians exercise democratically their administration,if freely elected representatives end up in jail ,simply because their views are no compliant with that of their neighbours.

[Edited 2006-08-06 14:34:34]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Klaus
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The question is how can the Palestinians exercise democratically their administration,if freely elected representatives end up in jail ,simply because their views are no compliant with that of their neighbours.

It gets a bit hairier once you promote terrorist attacks on civilians, even if you're not throwing bombs yourself.

I still have severe doubts if this course of action will be able to actually bring any benefits to Israel. I suspect it only leads to further escalation.
 
CO7e7
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Abdelasis Duweik,President of the Palestine Parliament,has been arrested yesterday by Israeli Security Forces.

I just read this on an arabic news site...
Being a Palestinian myself, i'm not a fan of Hamas at all. I don't think the Hamas gov't is doing my people any good.

-Zaki
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:00 pm

I agree on the issue : if Hamas promotes violence ,you only harvest more violence -a typical lose-lose situation.
But we all know just too well that the current set up of "Palestine" is a non-viable entity.Its is like a pressure-cooker once the pressure is too high-it explodes.
Once you visit the region you wonder how they manage to live anyhow ...
The moderate voices (Hanna Ashrawi...Saeb Erekat....Abu Matzen... ) are losing out against the frustrated populist leaders of Hamas. But then-that again is a whole tactic of Jerusalem ,to get better arguments for interventions.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Klaus
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3):
The moderate voices (Hanna Ashrawi...Saeb Erekat....Abu Matzen... ) are losing out against the frustrated populist leaders of Hamas. But then-that again is a whole tactic of Jerusalem ,to get better arguments for interventions.

I would love to see Israel halfway consistently disproving that impression...! Sad
 
CO7e7
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3):
The moderate voices (Hanna Ashrawi...Saeb Erekat....Abu Matzen... ) are losing out against the frustrated populist leaders of Hamas

we have some very well educated people who are standing on the sidelines because Hamas is in control.

-Zaki
 
Klaus
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:27 pm

At least from the outside it looks a lot as if Fatah was as much a problem for the halfway decent moderates as Hamas is now... The question is if there is a chance for a new movement without the burdens of Fatah corruption and Hamas extremism...!?
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:37 pm

I came across this organisation which -at least on paper- has some very decent goals and down -to -earth ambitions.
They defenitely would deserve some encouragement ...
(Sometimes ) women make the better politicians..
http://www.pwwsd.org/
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
CO7e7
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
The question is if there is a chance for a new movement without the burdens of Fatah corruption and Hamas extremism...!?

Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad along with Hanan Ashrawi would all make a strong team. (at least in my opinion)
You can read about Dr. Fayyad here:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Fayyad.html
and
http://www.mof.gov.ps/minister.html

-Zaki
 
Klaus
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 8):
Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad along with Hanan Ashrawi would all make a strong team. (at least in my opinion)

Looks, like it, yes. One can only hope that they'll be in charge some day.

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 8):
You can read about Dr. Fayyad here:

Looks like he worked into the right direction...
 
cfalk
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The question is how can the Palestinians exercise democratically their administration,if freely elected representatives end up in jail ,simply because their views are no compliant with that of their neighbours.

It would help if the Palestinians wouldn't elect criminals and terrorists.

I'm curious to know how the Palestinians would vote if elections were held again tomorrow. Has Hamas improved their lives? Have they shown any progress in securing Palestinian territorial integrity? Or their own goal of exterminating Israel?
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
Have they shown any progress in securing Palestinian territorial integrity?

Has Israel shown any progress in adopting UN resolutions concerning Palestine and the colonies,Golan and fredom of movement for the Palestinians?
It is an endless discussion -but with positions as entrenched and inflexible as currently,I don't see much progress in the near future.
I have the impression that many of the participants in this forum have not spent to much time in the region -otherwise their opinion would be somewhat more balanced.
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Klaus
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
It would help if the Palestinians wouldn't elect criminals and terrorists.

Menahem Begin was a criminal and terrorist as well. Still no reason to invade Israel and to detain him at the time.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
I'm curious to know how the Palestinians would vote if elections were held again tomorrow. Has Hamas improved their lives? Have they shown any progress in securing Palestinian territorial integrity?

Hardly - but constantly frustrating and embarrassing the moderates has not left much choice, especially with Fatah disgracing itself at the same time.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
Or their own goal of exterminating Israel?

Yeah, they're all "just evil", right? Yawn!  yawn   crazy 
 
cfalk
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Menahem Begin was a criminal and terrorist as well. Still no reason to invade Israel and to detain him at the time.

One moderated by 3 or 4 decades since the last time he acted as such. Hamas are quite current in their qualifications.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Hardly - but constantly frustrating and embarrassing the moderates has not left much choice, especially with Fatah disgracing itself at the same time.

I have to agree with you on that.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Yeah, they're all "just evil", right? Yawn!

Yep.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Klaus
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
One moderated by 3 or 4 decades since the last time he acted as such. Hamas are quite current in their qualifications.

Sure.

But Begin apparently ordered a (narrowly failed) assassination attempt on german chancellor Konrad Adenauer as late as 1952 according to one of his former aides, so his change of heart can be seen with a healthy helping of doubt.

Categorical condemnations are not always helpful. Had Hezbollah not started this war, the recent declaration from Hamas leaders for the acknowledgment of Israel could really have gained traction...!
 
CO7e7
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 14):
Had Hezbollah not started this war, the recent declaration from Hamas leaders for the acknowledgment of Israel could really have gained traction...!

That's what i was hoping.. but look where we're at now!!


-Zaki
 
Klaus
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 15):
That's what i was hoping.. but look where we're at now!!

Indeed - Hezbollah would have lost a lot of credibility if Hamas had actually gone through with their sensational declaration (resisted by some Hamas leaders in Syria, however - what a coincidence!).

And the israeli hardliners gladly obliged and bombed both Lebanon and the latest chance for peace to hell as desired by both Hezbollah and the Hamas hardliners. Stupid!
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 5):
we have some very well educated people who are standing on the sidelines because Hamas is in control.

-Zaki

It's called democracy. The will of the people. I'm also Palestinian and regret, as a Palestinian refugee (in Lebaon) who's never set foot on the homeland, to see Islamic extremists in control. But on the other hand Fateh and the other "elite" Arafat ex-guards stink even more, their corruption and Oslo failures speak for themselves... Where is Suha? How much is she worth?

It's time for a unity government comprised of Hamas, Fateh, and the smaller parties. However there is no more room for corruption and the participation of Hamas would AT LEAST bring some fiscal responsibility.

Time to put our house in order, while we work on Israeli piracy in kidnapping OUR ELECTED LEADERS.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:21 am

..by putting the democratically elected Hamas leaders into Jail - after their readiness to at least indirectly recognize Israel - we've lost two to three years - again...
You must win the impression some elements in Israel are not keen on real progress in talks but prefer a status-quo in military In-balance,Palestinian unrest and Lebanese in-stability.
The amazing thing is ,that even the "peace now" movement seems not aware that instability in Lebanon does not facilitate stability in the territories.
They fully support the actual military-campaign regardless of disastrous fall-out reactions.
( a.a. motivation among Shi'ia and Sunni extremist groups for more suicide-terror,water on the mills of Tehran,de-stabilising moderate Palestinian elements..)
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
RAPCON
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The question is how can the Palestinians exercise democratically their administration,if freely elected representatives end up in jail ,simply because their views are no compliant with that of their neighbours.

Sure! Just give back the soldier.

Now stop bitchin' and turn over the soldiers and I'll be the first one screaming at the US to stop the non sense.

Until then.....the IDF can keep pulling on the lanyards.

Hint: Turn over the 3 kids, and everthing will end quickly!!!
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 19):
Hint: Turn over the 3 kids, and everthing will end quickly!!!

The three "kids" have nothing to do with the current situation- even if they would be returned .
Hamas leaders have been jailed even before the solder has been kidnapped in Gaza and the West-Banks.As long as people live in worse conditions than animals,as long you will produce desperate reactions.
They have nothing to lose -and false promises from Israeli politicians fill pages.
The declared goal is to finish Hezbollah and Hamas- so their return would -at best-be good for some diplomatic statements, indicating the main goals has not been achieved.Your comment is very blue-eyed ...

[Edited 2006-08-06 19:32:37]
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
RAPCON
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 20):
The three "kids" have nothing to do with the current situation- even if they would be returned .

Turn over the 3 kids and you'll get support in the US to stop the shooting and for the IDF to go back to their lines. It's that simple.

Arabs want our help? Then it's our rules! Period.

Give the kids back!
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
CO7e7
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 17):
It's called democracy. The will of the people. I'm also Palestinian and regret, as a Palestinian refugee (in Lebaon) who's never set foot on the homeland, to see Islamic extremists in control.

You said it brother...
Islamic Extremists in power means NOT A SLIGHT CHANCE FOR PEACE OR IMPROVEMENT.


-Zaki
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 21):
Give the kids back!

In your sweet dreams.

Release the 300 women, 100 children, and 9,000 Palestinian prisoners.

Release the kidnapped government ministers.

Pull back the occupation and uproot the settlements.

Capice? Besides, I don't see why the fuss about 3 soldiers.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 23):
In your sweet dreams.

Release the 300 women, 100 children, and 9,000 Palestinian prisoners.

Release the kidnapped government ministers.

Pull back the occupation and uproot the settlements.

I don't understand it. The Lebanese sympathizers claim that the government of Lebanon is independent and has no responsibility for the actions of Hezbollah. Yet in the same breath they mention that these prisoners (most of who are guilty) need to be released for the Israeli's to be released.

Condemning the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers while agreeing that the terms of their release is moral is hypocritical and idiotic.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 23):
Besides, I don't see why the fuss about 3 soldiers.

Of course you wouldn't. But the action is indicative of the type of power and potential that has layed just across the border vying for the opportune time to attack Israel.

And yes, they are soldiers, but they are also sons, daughters, and family to the Israeli everyman. I guess that all you see is the star on their uniform.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
damirc
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 24):
And yes, they are soldiers, but they are also sons, daughters, and family to the Israeli everyman. I guess that all you see is the star on their uniform.

As opposed to the Lebanese and Palestinian soldiers, who are held in Israeli prisons (sometimes still awaiting trial after lenghty periods of time). They are not sons, daughters and family to their respective societies. They are just clones, I guess.

D.
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 24):
(most of who are guilty

You are seriously WRONG.

Most of the 9000 POWs in Israeli jails are administrative and other type of detainees who've NEVER BEEN PUT ON TRIAL or are awaiting the charges since years and years ago... Just review the facts and history please, run a simple search on Google.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 23):
Capice? Besides, I don't see why the fuss about 3 soldiers.

And I don't see the fuss about the current Israeli actions in Lebanon, just a little response to an injustice. (This is just as valid as your point. Everyone also seems to keep forgetting the soldiers that were killed when the 2 other soldiers were abducted)
 
BotsCom
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:52 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):

It would help if the Palestinians wouldn't elect criminals and terrorists.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
TAAG-New 777's
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Damirc (Reply 25):
As opposed to the Lebanese and Palestinian soldiers, who are held in Israeli prisons (sometimes still awaiting trial after lenghty periods of time). They are not sons, daughters and family to their respective societies. They are just clones, I guess.

I was responding to his claim that no one should care about the kidnapping of Israeli troops.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 23):
Capice? Besides, I don't see why the fuss about 3 soldiers.

When did I ever state that the same shouldn't be felt for Lebanese or Palestinian soldiers? I didn't. Now, do you intend to tell me that the "children" and prisoners are soldiers of the Lebanese and Palestinian government? They are not. Many of the prisoners have directly or indirectly attacked Israeli troops while wearing civilian clothes. A soldier wears a uniform, a coward fights and pretends that he is a civilian. If I were to throw rocks or shoot at police officers in the States, I would be thrown away for a very long time. So, please quit putting words in my mouth. They are criminals, not soldiers, and should be tried and imprisoned.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 26):
Most of the 9000 POWs in Israeli jails are administrative and other type of detainees who've NEVER BEEN PUT ON TRIAL or are awaiting the charges since years and years ago... Just review the facts and history please, run a simple search on Google.

Well, I keep hearing this fact, but have yet to see any evidence that a majority of these people are POWS. I'm sure that on one hand you would argue that the prisoners in Guit are not POWS, but the ones held by Israel are. You are a chauvinistic person with hypocritical ideas. I do not believe that any of them are POWS, but should be held as criminals with trials. Now, what does that have to do with a straight-up release? Nothing, except for the fact that they are held by Israel and you would like them free to continue the fight against the Jewish state.

Have you yet responded to my statement..

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 24):
I don't understand it. The Lebanese sympathizers claim that the government of Lebanon is independent and has no responsibility for the actions of Hezbollah. Yet in the same breath they mention that these prisoners (most of who are guilty) need to be released for the Israeli's to be released.

Condemning the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers while agreeing that the terms of their release is moral is hypocritical and idiotic.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 26):
Most of the 9000 POWs in Israeli jails are administrative and other type of detainees who've NEVER BEEN PUT ON TRIAL or are awaiting the charges since years and years ago...

You also seem to forget that defining them as POWs allows governments to forgo any trial. You seem to be a little confused.

As said, they are not POWs (except the few who are legitimate soldiers) and should be given a trial.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
AA777
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 27):
And I don't see the fuss about the current Israeli actions in Lebanon, just a little response to an injustice.

A LITTLE RESPONSE? Are you Kidding? They have destroyed the infrastructure of the entire country! It doesnt take long. It is not a big country.

If another nation did to the US what Israel has done to Lebanon....it would be like this: Bombing interstate 95 every few miles, so that no one can move up the entire eastern seaboard. Bombing all the major bridges in the US. Like the Golden Gate Bridge, the Brooklyn, the one that crosses over the Mississippi...then someone would bomb every major fueling depot in the nation. And lets pretend like the US didnt have a huge Army/Navy/Air Force.... all major air bases would be destroyed. All the planes. The major ports of the US would be rendered unusable- thats Miami, Los Angeles, San Fran, Seattle, NYC, Baltimore...... And we'd be under a naval blockade from both coasts. Food and medical supplies running short....... I am not even mentioning damage to major cities....civilian casualties.....

To call the Israeli operation "little" is far from true. If what I described happened, you would mind it, and you would be upset. I promise you.

-AA777
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:26 pm

Oslo agreement is dead. PA is dead. One thing remains: The Israeli occupation.

"Criminal" elements in Palestinian society are subject to Palestinian jurisdiction. But Israel won't give anyone the chance to breath. They roll in their tanks and kidnap at will.

This is the single biggest threat to world peace. Israeli hegemony which feeds on American greed.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:29 pm

Israel puts the icing on the cake:

Palestinian House Speaker Aziz Dweik taken to hospital after he was beaten by Israeli interrogators.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...

Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:37 pm

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 32):
Israeli hegemony which feeds on American greed.

Hegemony over what? Israel?
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...

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