AerospaceFan
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A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:16 pm

I feel sick.

I've felt ill since the beginning of the recent hostilities between Israel and Lebanon, and I continue to feel that way -- not physically, but emotionally, mentally, psychologically.

When I started my thread about God, I did it because, for the umpteenth time, I felt that God had failed us, that the peoples of Earth decided to pummel each other into submission for grievances ancient and insurmountable. Although I still consider myself a Christian, each war that I witness, if only through the looking glass, reduces my ability to accept what I was taught.

But I think that we put too much on the shoulders of God. We make our fates here what they are, and we enjoy or suffer the consequences as our efforts may yield.

We should count ourselves lucky, most of us, to live in a land where vendettas are forgotten, where Arab and Jew can live side by side, and let live. Mutual respect for one another still exists at least here, so much so that this very message seems hackneyed, and blessedly so.

We sometimes forget how fortunate we are to enjoy the company of people who, despite mutual differences, can set them aside and live in relative peace, and relative harmony.

So, I raise a glass to the values of tolerance and respect for all our differences, and for the love of humanity that animates those values. In a world that cries out for calm, we still have a bit of it, over here, in our little corner of the world. Long may this be.

The alternative is too sad to contemplate.
What's fair is fair.
 
Klaus
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:34 pm

If there was a god who was both all-powerful and benevolent, he'd have had plenty of opportunity to show up and set things right.

But as it turns out, it's indeed up to us to not screw up as badly as others have before us and are still doing around us... There's still a lot of chaos, but we have indeed come a long way already...!

[Edited 2006-08-07 07:35:44]
 
Pulkovokiwi
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:38 pm

And it pays to remember that 60 years ago something dreadful happened in Hiroshima. I we going to let Jerusalem/Washington let it happen again?
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
searpqx
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 2):
I we going to let Jerusalem/Washington let it happen again?

Because we all know that they're just itching to drop the one's they've had for what, sixty years? And peacfull old Hezbollah would be the model of restraint if they could just get their hands on one.  sarcastic 

There are plenty of threads going to bash the US/Israel/Lebanon/Hezbollah, etc., can we confine please it to those?
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:16 pm

I think that if God exists -- and, as I say, I believe that He does, but really, it's up to each of us to believe or not -- then He might want each of us to do the right thing without regard to whether He does.

Thus, at the end, God might ask each of us this: "Remember when you were around, down on Earth, and you didn't know that I was there? Remember how you treated one another? Remember? Well... even if you don't remember... I do."

We must treat one another with tolerance and respect, not only because God tells us to, but because it's the only way to behave in the world in which we exist.

What is the alternative? Answer: Turn on the news.

Never has it been more clear that fanaticism only leads to hatred, and hatred only leads to war, and war leads, for the most part, to injustice and, most importantly, futility.

Futility -- the lack of hope -- is the essence of negativism. What was it, after all, that Dante Alighieri said was written on the portal to the netherworld?
What's fair is fair.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:50 am

Further ruminations:

I am sometimes appalled by the commentary that one can see on the Web these days -- not only on extreme blogs, but also as responses or even original articles posted on mainstream sites.

In America, people of every background have succeeded by maintaining an interest in the balance between individual and societal interests. There is an informal social contract by which citizens of all kinds can contribute and prosper in this country, and by the same token, their countrymen will protect them without fail, regardless of any individual or small-group differences that might exist.

I think that the rest of the world could certainly learn from the experience of the United States in handling religious, political, and other differences. We may not be perfect, but we do a good job of keeping things manageable.

[Edited 2006-08-11 22:02:25]
What's fair is fair.
 
Bobster2
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:00 am

A rumination from Steven Weinberg:
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.''
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
Halcyon
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 6):
A rumination from Steven Weinberg:
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.''

Oh my heavens Bob, can we NOT drag this into a "religion is always going to screw things up" thread? ANd it does not take religion, if you thought about it instead of simply championing a "witty" remark that furthers your belief-it indeed simply takes any strong viewpoint. What a worthless quote on this thread. It's so asinine as to be laughable. Ick. I'm sick of crap like that.

Respect is a great thing, and so is tolerance up to a point. There are some things, of course, that must not be tolerated.
 
bezoar
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:19 am

A fine thread. Thank you, AerospaceFan.

I tried to write my response, and it started running way too long. I finally realized that my words would not mean much, so I share words from another:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

Matthew 5:38-45

I think these instructions run counter to human nature, at least the human nature I know.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
Bobster2
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 7):
a "witty" remark

It's not a witty remark. Steven Weinberg is not a comedian. It was spoken with the utmost sincerity and belief in its truth.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
Halcyon
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 9):
It's not a witty remark. Steven Weinberg is not a comedian. It was spoken with the utmost sincerity and belief in its truth.

You're right about it being not witty, lol, but it's also not incredibly perfect for this thread. Sorry I blew up.  Sad It's way too generalized to be any good, and, in its generalization, it does not itself show tolerance or respect. Happy day to you, for I am off to work now.

Lucas  Smile
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 8):
A fine thread. Thank you, AerospaceFan.

You're welcome, as always, Bezoar.

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 8):
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

Matthew 5:38-45

I think these instructions run counter to human nature, at least the human nature I know.

I agree. The Bible teaches us things that are sometimes impossible for mortal, fallible beings to fulfill.

Still, if we aim for what the Bible teaches, the chances that we will succeed in doing what is right may be better than if we ignore it altogether.

Regardless of what the Bible teaches, I think that decency teaches that we should treat one another with no less than a basic level of respect and tolerance, and perhaps this is the least that humankind could do.

[Edited 2006-08-12 01:32:08]
What's fair is fair.
 
gkirk
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:31 am

There is no gods...
Muslims, there is no Allah
Buddists, there is ni Buddah
Jews, there is no (err..sorry, dunno)
Sikhs, there is no (as above)

Religion is the true creator of violence in the modern world.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 12):
Religion is the true creator of violence in the modern world.

Yes, Osama Bin Laden has alot to answer for  Angry
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
gkirk
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 13):
Yes, Osama Bin Laden has alot to answer for Angry

Not just him, but the frigging Christian leaders, Jewish Leaders, Budhist Leaders, Muslim Leaders...
They're all to blame
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 14):
Not just him, but the frigging Christian leaders, Jewish Leaders, Budhist Leaders, Muslim Leaders...
They're all to blame

Well, yeah, you do have a point  Wink



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
bezoar
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 14):
They're all to blame

I guess we agree that one shouldn't blame God, though for different reasons.  Smile
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:40 am

I think that when I wrote the following, I had in mind exactly what Bezoar has said so well just now: One really has no need to place blame on God -- besides which doing so may be quite futile.

As Shakespeare said through one of his characters: The fault is not in the stars, but in ourselves.

And the corollary is that what benefits mankind can also come from mankind, if only we desire to achieve it.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
When I started my thread about God, I did it because, for the umpteenth time, I felt that God had failed us, that the peoples of Earth decided to pummel each other into submission for grievances ancient and insurmountable. Although I still consider myself a Christian, each war that I witness, if only through the looking glass, reduces my ability to accept what I was taught.

But I think that we put too much on the shoulders of God. We make our fates here what they are, and we enjoy or suffer the consequences as our efforts may yield.
What's fair is fair.
 
Halcyon
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 12):
Religion is the true creator of violence in the modern world.

Yes. We all know that people who have no religion can do no evil without the influence of religion. What a dumb, dumb thing to say. It cannot be proved at all, and is very similar to a child saying that everything wrong is the fault of who he's upset with. What a pointless waste of bandwidth.

I'm in a bad mood today.

Cheers,
Lucas
 
Bobster2
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:49 am

If you want a witty remark, here's how Jon Stewart said it:

"Religion: Giving people hope in a world torn apart by religion"
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
Mir
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
The Bible teaches us things that are sometimes impossible for mortal, fallible beings to fulfill.

Not impossible. Just difficult. Seems that most people are interested in the easy way out, which is rarely the best way out.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Falcon84
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
, I felt that God had failed us

Wrong. It is we that have failed Him.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
If there was a god who was both all-powerful and benevolent, he'd have had plenty of opportunity to show up and set things

That's just a cop-out, Klaus. By blaming God, and not our own actions, it kind of lets us off the hook.

There is a God, and He gives us the freedom to make choices in our lives, for good or evil, that will either lead us to Paradise, or to Damnation.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 12):
There is no gods...
Muslims, there is no Allah
Buddists, there is ni Buddah
Jews, there is no (err..sorry, dunno)
Sikhs, there is no (as above)

Religion is the true creator of violence in the modern world.

So sure of yourself Kirkie? After all, you worship sheep, so everyone has to believe in something, I guess.

I think you're dead wrong, but I won't argue with you, or anyone else here on this forum. One of the amazing things I see on this board, is that there are so many who deny His existence. Fortunately, such people in the world are a minority.

God, or personal faith, is not the cause of violence in the world. Religion isn't even the cause. It's when religion is perverted and twisted-as the Nazi's did; as the Christians did during The Crusades; as many in the Muslim world do now-is when you have the problem.

Religion and faith in and of itself isn't the cause.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
gkirk
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):

Only thing I worship is Glasgow Rangers FC  Wink
Fair enough, you can be religious, and that' up to you, I have nothing wrong with your personal beliefs, but it is of my opinion that religion is the main factor of violence in todays world.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Falcon84
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 22):
Fair enough, you can be religious, and that' up to you, I have nothing wrong with your personal beliefs, but it is of my opinion that religion is the main factor of violence in todays world.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. It is the perversion; the twisting, the misuse of faith in God, to gain worldy power, wealth and possession that is the main factor. Gaining power, wealth and possession, be they someone else's land, or someone else's personal possession, is the reason for all conflicts. But when one twists and perverts a faith, it becomes more brutal, I'll grant you that. So many crimes have been done, wrongly, in "The Name Of God".

Again, it isn't the faith itself; it's those who misuse and blaspheme it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
gkirk
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. It is the perversion; the twisting, the misuse of faith in God, to gain worldy power, wealth and possession that is the main factor. Gaining power, wealth and possession, be they someone else's land, or someone else's personal possession, is the reason for all conflicts. But when one twists and perverts a faith, it becomes more brutal, I'll grant you that. So many crimes have been done, wrongly, in "The Name Of God".

Again, it isn't the faith itself; it's those who misuse and blaspheme it.

Problem is, there is no God. Otherwise, why would he be allowing the current crap to be going on?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Falcon84
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 24):
Problem is, there is no God. Otherwise, why would he be allowing the current crap to be going on?

Because God does not control our fates; he lets us make our own choice, and to live with the consequences.

That answer, that you gave, is so over-simplistic, and, in my mind, a cop-out.

You're welcome to your views. It's a free world-well, a lot of it is. But I know in my heart of hearts you're incorrect.

At least you capitalized His name this time.  Smile You're getting there.  Big grin
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
jamesbuk
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):

So whats the point in him? he sits there doing nothing all day?

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
AirCop
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
God, or personal faith, is not the causernof violence in the world. Religion isn't even the cause. It's whenrnreligion is perverted and twisted-as the Nazi's did; as the Christiansrndid during The Crusades; as many in the Muslim world do now-is when yournhave the problem.

 checkmark  As history as shown this is a repeating cycle. Christians and Muslims have been at war a number of times since the 1 A.D. why will it change now?
 
Falcon84
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 26):
So whats the point in him? he sits there doing nothing all day?

The point of Him is us; our existence, the existence of this world, of this universe. He created this whole thing in 6 days. That's pretty good work.

I'm not even going to go into it any further, because it's a mystery to those of us who believe in Him.

You don't believe anyway, so what's the point?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
md80fanatic
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 24):
Problem is, there is no God. Otherwise, why would he be allowing the current crap to be going on?

Does your father step in to make certain that Gkirk does not go astray? Why would he? He love's you. It's your life....you will learn from your mistakes. He had his chance to affect the development of your values while you were a young man...now it is his job to step aside and hope for the best. That it what God is like.

I can pretty much say with 100% certainty....that what God (the Father of all of us) sees in us at this time in our history....He is not at all happy with. Would you be?
 
Klaus
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 12):
Buddists, there is no Buddah

That is not quite correct - Buddha was a historical person. Buddhism is not actually a religion the way christianity is, it is a philosophy (which, however, has been adopted into belief systems which do have deities as well, even if Buddhism does not need them). To my knowledge, no wars have been waged in the name of Buddhism, so I'd except it from your accusation.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
That's just a cop-out, Klaus. By blaming God, and not our own actions, it kind of lets us off the hook.

I explained above why the god of the bible cannot exist. A benevolent but powerless god - yes, maybe. An all-powerful but indifferent or malevolent god - yes, maybe. But an all-powerful and benevolent god? No, that one definitely can't exist with all that has happened.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
There is a God, and He gives us the freedom to make choices in our lives, for good or evil, that will either lead us to Paradise, or to Damnation.

If that imagination helps you being a decent person - fine. But in keeping with the thread title I do have a problem when this imagination is used to judge, condemn and bully other people, the way many religions tend impose their beliefs on everybody.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
God, or personal faith, is not the cause of violence in the world. Religion isn't even the cause.

That is not true. Large-scale violence is almost always fueled and directed by aggressive ideologies, and religions have historically been the most persistent ones of those. With presumably divine anointment of the ideological tenets they are still working very similarly to Marxism or other ideologies when in conflict with dissenters.

Hadn't religions been tamed and marginalized by secularization in the western world, we'd still suffer from the same afflictions as the muslim societies do.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
It's when religion is perverted and twisted-as the Nazi's did;

The nazi ideology was rather explicitly atheist, some especially weird side branches notwithstanding.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 27):
As history as shown this is a repeating cycle. Christians and Muslims have been at war a number of times since the 1 A.D. why will it change now?

Rubbish! Islam didn't even exist back then! (Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

It has only been conceived in the 7th century. That blows your whole statement right to hell.
 
bezoar
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 29):
Does your father step in...?

Precisely. As parents we don't want our children to get hurt. We do step in at times, but we can protect them at every moment. But we also love them enough to eventually let them go. Eventually they leave us, and the only protection we provide is whatever 'life lessons' they've learned from us.

If we didn't let our children take risks by exercising their will, exploring the world, and eventually leaving home, we would ultimately be doing them no favors. We would be turning them into mere puppets or slaves. They would never develop their own relationship with the world, and they would not experience the fullness of life. (We would have to prevent them from having their own children which, as many of us know, are a great source of pain!)

I don't think you can fully appreciate joy unless you know suffering. Seeing our children make it out of the nest gives us parents great joy. It makes the job of parenting worth every aggravation. And we are 'glorified' on the day they come back to us and show appreciation for what we have done for them. That, I believe, is what God essentially wants from us.

Incidentally, from a medical standpoint, pain is necessary for survival. If we didn't have it, we would destroy ourselves in short order. It isn't pleasant, but it can have an important impact on our behavior.

The problem is that we are often numbing ourselves in one way or another, and can do a lot of damage before we ever feel the pain. Eliminating God, higher truths, and the soul from the equation is one such way. To be fair, I also think shrouding one's self in a self-righteous faith that permits destruction of God's creation is another.

[Edited 2006-08-12 04:24:44]
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
Bobster2
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:31 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
The nazi ideology was rather explicitly atheist,

Wait a minute! You're not blaming Nazism on the atheists? That kills my whole theory about atheists being nice people. My quick check of Wikipedia indicates that most Nazi leaders were anti-atheist. Hitler was a devout Catholic. Of course, Wikipedia could be wrong, but it seems consistent with my recollections from history classes.

I just did more googling, and found this SS belt buckle:



[Edited 2006-08-12 04:52:07]
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
Klaus
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 32):
Wait a minute! You're not blaming Nazism on the atheists? That kills my whole theory about atheists being nice people.

Well, it's not that simple.

The nazi ideology managed to be extremist and aggressive all without postulating a god; Atheism isn't any more a guarantee for being a good person than religion does.

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 32):
Hitler was a devout Catholic.

I don't think so. Maybe in his youth, but certainly not as a dictator.
 
bezoar
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
It has only been conceived in the 7th century. That blows your whole statement right to hell.

Yes, Muhammad didn't come around until later, but the seeds were planted well before, if you trust the source.

In Genesis the story is told of Abraham and his two sons, Ishmael and Isaac. In the Judeo-Christian version God's Covenant is ultimately given to Isaac, the son whom Abraham almost sacrificed in a test of obedience. It is through Isaac's children that the Hebrew nation is formed. The Arab nation is formed through Ishmael.

Now, Islam considers Abraham their father as well. However, their version of the story indicates that it was Ishmael whom Abraham almost sacrifices, and that it was Ishmael to whom the Covenant was given.

I'm not equating Arabs with Muslims and more than I would equate all Gentiles with Christians. However, it sounds like the origin of the conflict may date back about 3,000 to 3,500 years, perhaps more. (Historians aren't sure when Abraham lived.)

In the texts of both religions the nations are fighting over God's Covenant, or whom God considers His chosen people. Today this is manifested, in part, by fighting over who gets the Holy Land, but it is also being expressed in other ways.

Here's Genesis 16:11-13. The angel is speaking with Sarah, the mother of Isaac. The affliction mentioned is being barren, or childless.

...And the Angel of the LORD said to her: ÒBehold, you are with child, and you shall bear a son. You shall call his name Ishmael, because the LORD has heard your affliction. He shall be a wild man; his hand shall be against every man, and every manÕs hand against him. And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.Ó

Comment: That's a prophecy fulfilled if there ever was one.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
Bobster2
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 33):
Atheism isn't any more a guarantee for being a good person than religion does.

Hard to say, really. Atheists are now and always have been a tiny fragment of the human population. As far as we know, all human societies have been dominated by some form of religion or supernatural beliefs, and they all had priests who encouraged killing of humans, from human sacrifice to modern religious wars.

How can anybody really say what the world would be like if all humans were atheists? Would the atheists divide themselves into cults and sects and try to kill each other? I believe in the Steven Weinberg quote, but admittedly it's only a belief, yet to be proven. First the atheists have to come out the closet. That's truly step one, and I don't expect to see it in my lifetime.

All I know is that my parents taught me about tolerance and respect. Religion never entered into it.

As for using Nazism as an excuse for anti-atheism:  razz 
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
bezoar
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 4:47 am

RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 32):
Hitler was a devout Catholic.

Some quotes from Adolph Hitler's diaries and transcripts:

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains."

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death."

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity."

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

"Christianity, of course, has reached the peak of absurdity in this respect. And that's why one day its structure will collapse. Science has already impregnated humanity. Consequently, the more Christianity clings to its dogmas, the quicker it will decline."

"The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic."

"Being weighed down by a superstitious past, men are afraid of things that can't, or can't yet, be explained--that is to say, of the unknown. If anyone has needs of a metaphysical nature, I can't satisfy them with the Party's programme. Time will go by until the moment when science can answer all the questions."

Anyone want more quotes from this imposter? They are easily googled.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
Boeing744
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 32):
Hitler was a devout Catholic.

Hitler was an atheist. Interestingly, his mother (or grandmother, can't remember) was Jewish, which would in turn make him Jewish technically.



I am also an atheist, but does that make me a bad person? No. Does it make me a better person than any other religion? No. I think that is what AerospaceFan is trying to convey in this thread. No one is better or worse because of their religion, but because of their own actions.

[Edited 2006-08-12 05:27:51]

[Edited 2006-08-12 05:28:29]
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 12):
Religion is the true creator of violence in the modern world.

Got to agree with you there.

This is a good thread. Glad someone brought it up. Thanks AerospaceFan. Religious or not, we should all be tolerant of everyone. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them, but you can agree to disagree. You take people for face value, learn from each other and get along. It is amazing how much we can learn from each other when you take the walls down.
You can't cure stupid
 
AirCop
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 27):
the 1 A.D. why will it change now?

My mistake, should have typed 1000 A.D.
 
Pulkovokiwi
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 37):

You are correct and he was very careful to keep this concealed from his cronies. He did not believe in God he thought he was God.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
md80fanatic
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:34 pm

From what I have read, Hitler was not only catholic.....but he deeply wanted to become a priest. His mother described how he (as a child) would set up a tiny alter, with the cup and the host (unleavened bread symbolizing Christ's body), and read the mass from a sunday missal. He would literally "force" his friends to come over and listen to his sermons...and he was quite serious about it. Somewhere along the line apparently he became disenchanted with the church and said (I assume) the things stated in the posts above.
 
gkirk
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RE: A Thread In Praise Of Tolerance And Respect

Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):
At least you capitalized His name this time. Smile You're getting there.

 Wink

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
That is not quite correct - Buddha was a historical person.

Ah well, learn something new everyday  Wink
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