cfalk
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My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:26 am

I'm staying a few weeks with my sister in Kentucky, while I am looking for a house of my own.

My 7-year old nephew, Dallas, found out that I was once in the Army. He looked shocked, and said, "So you are a murderer?!?"

Sure enough, his teachers have been drilling into his head that the military is evil, and that they only exist to kill people, and to die themselves (he was surprised that I survived the army). He doesn't know anything about Iraq and 9/11 (which is understandable), but his opinions about the military are already pretty strong, thanks to the indoctrination he has recieved.

I have to talk with my sister about this tonight. This is scandalous how leftist teachers are indoctrinating children about how the military and anyone who serves in it are evil murderers.

“It is the soldier, not the journalist, who guarantees freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the student protestor, who guarantees freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the politician, who guarantees the freedom to vote.”
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AirPacific747
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
I have to talk with my sister about this tonight.

Or maybe you should talk directly to his teachers about this?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:31 am

Leftist teachers, in KENTUCKY? Are you sure about this?
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cfalk
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 1):
Or maybe you should talk directly to his teachers about this?

I'm just an uncle. They don't even know me.

But I know my sister will be upset at this. She's further to the right than I am  Smile.
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AirPacific747
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 3):
But I know my sister will be upset at this. She's further to the right than I am

Okay I guess that helps then  Wink
 
QANTASforever
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
and to die themselves (he was surprised that I survived the army).

I'll admit I used to think as a very young child that joining the Army was a one way ticket to the funeral home.

Never thought of soldiers as murderers though. Hmm, interesting thread.

QFF
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baylorairbear
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:36 am

He's a child. Take thirty seconds to convince him otherwise.  Wink I do understand, though, that your argument is against his teachers and their indoctrination of their own beliefs in a child, rather than his opinion of the military.

BAB
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baylorairbear
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:42 am

Also, are you sure that was taught to him by his teachers? It is possible that he knows that people in the military kill, and he is overextending the definition of murderer to include all those who kill, regardless of circumstance.

BAB
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searpqx
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:42 am

If that's truly what he's being taught, then not only the teachers but the administration have some serious 'splanin to do. But also keep in mind that 7 year olds can create an entire (incorrect) concept out of one misunderstood statement. Give the School District the opportunity to actually show whats being taught before jumping to conclusions.
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cfalk
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 7):
Also, are you sure that was taught to him by his teachers? It is possible that he knows that people in the military kill, and he is overextending the definition of murderer to include all those who kill, regardless of circumstance.

No, he told me that his teacher told him all this stuff. She told the class that they should never join the military, because all you do is kill innocent people until one day when you get killed yourself.
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cosec59
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 9):
She told the class that they should never join the military, because all you do is kill innocent people until one day when you get killed yourself.

Maybe a word with the head at the school is in order. It's crazy that these people try to indoctrinate young children with their mis-guided beliefs
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
I have to talk with my sister about this tonight. This is scandalous how leftist teachers are indoctrinating children about how the military and anyone who serves in it are evil murderers.

Agreed. In my opinion, as a society, we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children.
What's fair is fair.
 
NIKV69
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
My 7-year old nephew, Dallas, found out that I was once in the Army. He looked shocked, and said, "So you are a murderer?!?"

Nice! His school hired Ward Churchill as a teacher!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
cosec59
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children.

I don't think you can discriminate like that. But I certainly agree that their beliefs be left outside the school gates
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
searpqx
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children

And who gets to define 'our values'? In this case, if the teacher made the statement attributed to her, its pretty clear cut that she crossed a line, but I know from your postings your values aren't necessarily mine, so which of us is right?

Charles, you're right -this has got to go to the mom. Either through misunderstanding or flat out inappropriate proselytizing, the kid is getting some bad information, and it needs to be corrected.
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bill142
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:04 am

John Travolta in Broken Arrow

"Sure I've dropped bombs on cities, but I've never actually killed a guy"
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 13):
I don't think you can discriminate like that. But I certainly agree that their beliefs be left outside the school gates

Here in America, I think you can. School boards have a lot of power to hire and fire, and if you're, say, an America-hater, they probably do have the right to say, "Thanks, but we don't need your services just now."

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 14):
And who gets to define 'our values'? In this case, if the teacher made the statement attributed to her, its pretty clear cut that she crossed a line, but I know from your postings your values aren't necessarily mine, so which of us is right?

Someone, though, has to make that decision. We cannot always say, "No one can judge" when it comes to teaching. After all, teachers must pass certain tests in order to obtain their licenses; why not make them pass tests of citizenship?
What's fair is fair.
 
N231YE
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
Agreed. In my opinion, as a society, we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children.

Agreed too. I believe that politics should be made separate from the classroom.

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Sure enough, his teachers have been drilling into his head that the military is evil,

I agree with this too, I was drilled to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in elementary school, but never told what it meant, until I thought about it myself after 9/11. Here's one for the teachers and elementary schools:
What is the point of saying the pledge if you do not know what it means? It's just a senseless jumble of words they teach children...no true thought to the nation for which it stands...
 
padraighaz
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
“It is the soldier, not the journalist, who guarantees freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the student protestor, who guarantees freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the politician, who guarantees the freedom to vote.”

In what way? I don't see how this works. What did the military do to stop the censorship of photographs of flag-draped coffins? In the 60's the National Guard was instrumental in attempting to suppress student protesters. The military runs it's own media to help isolate soldiers from the free media they claim to protect. We had a military before the civil rights movement; this abuse was not removed through military force; The military I believe ran the internment camps where US citizens of japanese ancestry were interned - ar at a minimum did nothing to stop the practice.

I agree that without the military, you could conceivably argue america might be conquered, but this is a statement of america being 'free' in the sense of not being controlled by another nation; this has nothing to do with freedoms in the sense of being free to vote, or speak.


Padraig Houlahan
Flagstaff, AZ
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16):
School boards have a lot of power to hire and fire, and if you're, say, an America-hater, they probably do have the right to say, "Thanks, but we don't need your services just now."

True, but then again it would be too hard to judge. Politics would get involved, people would assume things, i.e. ohh you're a right winger, you're going to teach intellegent design, ohh you're a left winger, you are Anti-American!!11111 OMG OMG!!!!! Of course, both are not true, but some people have these preconceived notions.

Ahh just let the kids play dodgeball and call each other clever.

Dave
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 18):
The military I believe ran the internment camps where US citizens of japanese ancestry were interned - ar at a minimum did nothing to stop the practice.

The military acted on the orders of Franklin Delano Roosevelt -- a Democratic President. Now, by itself, the internment doesn't mean that FDR was anything but a great President, but, one should probably admit, some believe that it does lessen his greatness just a bit.

Others continue to believe that his actions were justified.

I believe we would have had a very substantial Constitutional crisis had the military defied the orders of the Commander in Chief in that regard.

[Edited 2006-08-23 01:19:15]
What's fair is fair.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 19):
True, but then again it would be too hard to judge.

Well, on the other hand, as a teacher, one would be expected to support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution provides for an army and a navy. Surely our Founding Fathers did not provide for an army believing that it should be used for criminal purposes?

(See Article I, Section 8. E.g., http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut...onstitution.articlei.html#section8.)

[Edited 2006-08-23 01:25:05]
What's fair is fair.
 
searpqx
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16):
why not make them pass tests of citizenship?

And where is it written that to be an American citizen, you must support and like the military? You are trying to place your subjective criteria on what should/should not be taught in schools.

Again, I'm not supporting what this teacher is reported to have done. Both ethically and most likely in District Policy, she's violated any number of rules, and if thats the case, that should be the basis of any discipline, not because she doesn't 'share our values'.
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davestanKSAN
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 21):
Well, on the other hand, as a teacher, one would be expected to support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution provides for an army and a navy. Surely our Founding Fathers did not provide for an army believing that it should be used for criminal purposes?

True. I was thinking more along the lines of the hiring process for teachers and how difficult it would be to judge if they are, in fact, an 'America-Hater.'

Teachers should be able to express their opinions, but I would imagine its hard to differentiate opinion from fact when you're a 7 year old and your teacher presents it in a factual way. Not to take anything away from 7 year olds, kids are crazy smart these days. Maybe I played too much Dodge Ball. Ahh forget it.      

DvaE

[Edited 2006-08-23 01:44:17]
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padraighaz
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 20):
The military acted on the orders of Franklin Delano Roosevelt -- a Democratic President. Now, by itself, the internment doesn't mean that FDR was anything but a great President, but, one should probably admit, some believe that it does lessen his greatness just a bit.

Others continue to believe that his actions were justified.

I believe we would have had a very substantial Constitutional crisis had the military defied the orders of the Commander in Chief in that regard.

I agree. But this seems to suggest the statement about protecting freedoms of one sort or another is an overstatement. Providing the extremely valuable service of preventing america from being conquered, is not the same as protecting our freedoms; it does provide an opportunity of having a free society - if the citizens and politicians can make it happen.

Regards,

Padraig Houlahan
Flagstaff, AZ
 
AeroWesty
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 20):
The military acted on the orders of Franklin Delano Roosevelt -- a Democratic President ...

... I believe we would have had a very substantial Constitutional crisis had the military defied the orders of the Commander in Chief in that regard.

The military had zip, zilch, nada to do with the Japanese internment camps during WWII. They were run by the War Relocation Authority, under the auspices of the Justice Dept.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 22):
And where is it written that to be an American citizen, you must support and like the military? You are trying to place your subjective criteria on what should/should not be taught in schools.

Teachers can be citizens, and generally are. (Some may be permanent citizens, I would imagine.) But, as teachers, there should be, if there isn't, a further requirement: That they support and defend the Constitution. Oaths of this kind are regularly required of public officials.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 24):
But this seems to suggest the statement about protecting freedoms of one sort or another is an overstatement. Providing the extremely valuable service of preventing america from being conquered, is not the same as protecting our freedoms; it does provide an opportunity of having a free society - if the citizens and politicians can make it happen.

That is a very defensible argument, I must say. The military is important, but so are politicians and journalists.

[Edited 2006-08-23 01:45:23]
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AerospaceFan
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 25):
The military had zip, zilch, nada to do with the Japanese internment camps during WWII. They were run by the War Relocation Authority, under the auspices of the Justice Dept.

Didn't the military guard the internment camps? See, e.g.:

(Excerpt)

Quote:
Military police were stationed in 9 guard towers, equipped with high beam search lights, and surrounded by barbed wire fencing around the camp.^2.

(Footnote in original source. Original source at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8420/camps.html.)

[Edited 2006-08-23 01:46:20]
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Longhornmaniac
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
This is scandalous how leftist teachers are indoctrinating children about how the military and anyone who serves in it are evil murderers.

I'm not entirely sure if you meant it the way I took it, so if you didn't, I apologize for the unnecessary confusion.

I don't think that its a totally fair generalization that all left people are against military use, and that anyone who preaches against it are left. I for one, am more left than right, but certainly don't believe that soldiers are "murderers," and I, too find it appalling that school teachers are indoctrinating this into our younger minds. This should be taken up with the proper authorities, no doubt.

But, like I said, not all Democrats are against war, or military use, and not everyone that is against war is a Democrat.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
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andessmf
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:45 am

That is a complete outrage. Teachers are there to teach, letting the children form their own opinion, with their own basis.

I find it even more outrageous that we are talking about a 2nd grader. I wouldnt even consider talking politics to a child less than 13, and this teacher is trying to get to 7 year olds. That's low.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 27):
Didn't the military guard the internment camps? See, e.g.:

Your link doesn't work, but regardless, this is a thread about Cfalk's nephew and class instruction in Kentucky, not a debate about the Japanese internment.

My post was merely to correct misinformation in your post.
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searpqx
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 26):
Teachers can be citizens, and often are. But, as teachers, there should, if there isn't, be a further requirement: That they support and defend the Constitution. Oaths of this kind are regularly required of public officials.

So they are, but your opening argument didn't have anything to do with oaths. You said we shouldn't let people who don't support 'our values' teach. That sounds suspiciously like the way other powers in the past have indoctrinated their youth. I would much prefer that teachers have their own opinions, but that their be clear guidelines and enforcement of when and how they express their opinions to their students. I still be that in this case there were and this teacher, if she did make these statements, broke those rules, and should be dealt with.

By the way, 'our values', if you use the Constitution as a guide, could conceivably protect this teacher, as she was expressing political opinion.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
padraighaz
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 25):
The military had zip, zilch, nada to do with the Japanese internment camps during WWII. They were run by the War Relocation Authority, under the auspices of the Justice Dept.

From wikipedia concerning Executive Order 9066:
***
This order authorized U.S. armed forces commanders to declare areas of the United States as military areas "from which any or all persons may be excluded." It was eventually applied to one-third of the land area of the U.S. (mostly in the West) and was used against those with "Foreign Enemy Ancestry."
***

So it looks like the military was involved.

Regards,

Padraig Houlahan
Flagstaff, AZ
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 30):
My post was merely to correct misinformation in your post.

But I'm not sure you succeeded, in this case, AeroWesty.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 31):
You said we shouldn't let people who don't support 'our values' teach.

I did. And supporting the existence of the military is part of those values. Calling the military a collection of murderers, in this context, strongly suggests that this teacher opposes the military as a concept, even though the military itself is Constitutional.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 32):
So it looks like the military was involved.

Indeed, it does. Thank you very kindly for that informative excerpt.
What's fair is fair.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 32):
So it looks like the military was involved.

Again, this topic is not about Japanese internment. The executive order Roosevelt signed called for the removal of the Japanese from military zones. Those camps were run by the Justice Dept., as were the removals to the camps. Now, please let this tangent rest.
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andessmf
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 31):
I would much prefer that teachers have their own opinions, but that their be clear guidelines and enforcement of when and how they express their opinions to their students. I still be that in this case there were and this teacher, if she did make these statements, broke those rules, and should be dealt with.

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AerospaceFan
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 34):
Those camps were run by the Justice Dept., as were the removals to the camps.

But the military was involved. You said that it wasn't. "Military police" are part of the military, AeroWesty.

Back on topic: As long as a teacher teaches, he or she must teach according to public guidelines, and as others have said, his or her personal political opinions have no place in an elementary school setting.
What's fair is fair.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 36):
But the military was involved. You said that it wasn't. "Military police" are part of the military, AeroWesty.

Start a thread on it if you'd like.

EDIT: If you do, recall the original post that I was disputing:

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 18):
The military I believe ran the internment camps where US citizens of japanese ancestry were interned


[Edited 2006-08-23 02:11:58]
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padraighaz
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 34):
So it looks like the military was involved.

Again, this topic is not about Japanese internment. The executive order Roosevelt signed called for the removal of the Japanese from military zones. Those camps were run by the Justice Dept., as were the removals to the camps. Now, please let this tangent rest.

Now wait a minute. The topic starter had a closing statement about how the military protects our freedoms (to vote, to protest, and to speak,) so the poster made it part of the topic.

This was challanged when I referred to military involvement with major liberty abuses (i.e. japanese internment camps.)

You denied any military involvement.

However, you are wrong, and you should research this a bit more. Your statement above is grossly incomplete in this context since it omits the major participation of the military in this shameful part of american history.

Regards,

Padraig Houlahan,
Flagstaff, AZ.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:17 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 38):
Now wait a minute. The topic starter had a closing statement about how the military protects our freedoms (to vote, to protest, and to speak,) so the poster made it part of the topic.

Fair enough.

Your initial post that I quoted in Reply #37 corrects the factually incorrect information you posted in Reply #18.
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searpqx
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 36):
Back on topic: As long as a teacher teaches, he or she must teach according to public guidelines, and as others have said, his or her personal political opinions have no place in an elementary school setting.

Agreed (to an extent, personal opinions, presented properly, do have a place), and pretty much what I've been saying. However your above quote is a heck of a long way from:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children.

One is requiring a teacher to abide by set guidelines the other is some amorphous group defining 'values' and then attempting to police thought based on those values.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
AeroWesty
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 38):
However, you are wrong, and you should research this a bit more. Your statement above is grossly incomplete in this context since it omits the major participation of the military in this shameful part of american history.

As a further aside, you might want to look up posse comitatus and how it applies in this instance.
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planespotting
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RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:49 am

Hmmm...


Not to take a devil's advocate approach to this...but...what about the indoctrination that most children get from most teachers at that age...that the United States and the military have nearly always been correct in whatever endeavor they have been involved with.

As a kid, more than most kids I imagine, I was a big fan of the military (if you love aviation, you become very interested in military aircraft and that leads to other militarily themed topics). I probably did not start to even think about the fact that the US or the military could be wrong until I was in 4th grade or so...I think my parents stories about vietnam (just what was going on at the time and how it was very controversial) sparked my first "dissent" towards the idea that our government and military was infallible.

Both extremes are incorrect, obviously, and this, like any other case, must be dealt with by parents who are informed and attentive to their childs education. I understand parents can't be there or know about everything their childs teacher teaches them, but it does not take too much prying from a youngster to find out what they are learning.

I'm not trying to say your sister or whomever was lax as a parent by not knowing this, but it is surprising that his views on that subject were not found out until he found out your past as a soldier, especially because of all the news about the military and soldiers about the war and what not going on right now.

One other thing. It is best to take most things such a child would say with a grain of salt...or at least until you can prove it yourself. That is to say, don't storm into the teacher or principle's office demanding their resignation or termination only to find out that your nephew somehow misinterpreted an offhand sarcastic comment or something of that sort.

If, however, you do find out that the teacher genuienly told the class that the military were all awful and that all soldiers were murderers, you genuienly have a grievance with what is being taught and should push for some sort of action. It is one thing to tell such things to high schoolers or college students who are old enough to think for themselves, it is a whole other can of beans to express the same sort of ideas to 7 year olds who view their teacher as the ultimate authority and an absolute source for any and all information.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 40):
One is requiring a teacher to abide by set guidelines the other is some amorphous group defining 'values' and then attempting to police thought based on those values.

But I would say that guidelines are set in accordance with values, and in some cases, must mandate the teaching of those values, as well.

For example, no public school board in America worth its salt would mandate the extensive teaching of Confucianism in elementary school class in lieu of civics. Not that Confucianism is wrong, but it's simply not relevant in any such curriculum, except perhaps to say that it exists. Rather, civics class must teach, either directly or indirectly, civic values.

Confucianism, by the way, is not necessarily a religion, but in many respects a philosophy, which helps us avoid the whole "religion in schools" hot potato.

[Edited 2006-08-23 03:07:25]
What's fair is fair.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 18):
We had a military before the civil rights movement; this abuse was not removed through military force

Ever heard of posse comitatus? Obviously not.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 18):
The military I believe ran the internment camps where US citizens of japanese ancestry were interned - ar at a minimum did nothing to stop the practice.

The military was, and is controlled by a civilian commander in chief. The President. To the extent the military had any involvement with the camps, it was under orders.

You seem to regard the military as some autonomous force in American society, beholden to no one. That is an ignorant and incorrect view.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Sure enough, his teachers have been drilling into his head that the military is evil, and that they only exist to kill people, and to die themselves (he was surprised that I survived the army). He doesn't know anything about Iraq and 9/11 (which is understandable), but his opinions about the military are already pretty strong, thanks to the indoctrination he has recieved.

Did you actually find out he got this idea from a teacher? How do you know that his seven year old mind simply isn't equating killing in any capacity with murder?

Personally, I'm very skeptical of any accusations of "leftist" teachers. When I was in school, history was taught with an extremely pro-America slant, (what Natives?) and had it not been for my own interest in history, I'd probably still harbor the fifth grade notion that the U.S. has only been a force for good in the world and has never done anything (keep in mind that I'm referring to government policy here) that adversely affected people living elsewhere in the world.

Naturally, suggesting that the military is made up only of "murderers" would be extremely irresponsible of any educator, so I'm hopeful that your nephew simply needs some explainations rather than a more moderate teacher.
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 46):
When I was in school, history was taught with an extremely pro-America slant

Sadly, that wasn't my experience. There was a leftist high school teacher of mine who even called the country we lived in the "United Snakes of America'. He said it with a little giggle, but it wasn't funny at all.

Ugh. Horrible experience, that class.

Of course, this wasn't the case with all my teachers, although I must say that there were enough of them. Most of them were jaundiced, at best.

[Edited 2006-08-23 03:35:35]
What's fair is fair.
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 39):
Your initial post that I quoted in Reply #37 corrects the factually incorrect information you posted in Reply #18.

What factually incorrect information? Can you be more specific please? I have offered no correction in #37 to anything in #18. I think you are seriously mis-reading what I write.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Padraig Houlahan
Flagstaff, AZ
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 26):
hat they support and defend the Constitution. Oaths of this kind are regularly required of public officials.

Where in the constitution does it say you must support the military....

If someone thinks it is un-american to be pro-life or for gay marriage does that make the teacher unfit to teach....? If someone teaches that life begins at conception are you going to get just as riled up? Or is that ok because it falls under your belief system?

I thought that the largest american value is freedom....The gov't doe not tell you how to think.

Was it inapropriate for the teacher to say this....yes but it was far from un-american..

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: My Nephew Called Me A Murderer

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 45):
Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 18):
We had a military before the civil rights movement; this abuse was not removed through military force

Ever heard of posse comitatus? Obviously not.

So what? If you read the full discussion, you will see I was responding to a claim that our military protects our right to vote, protest, and free speech.

My point is that the military is only very indirectly involved with such issues - in part - because of posse comitatus, and therefore it is quite an overstatement to attribute defense of them to the military.


I

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 45):
The military was, and is controlled by a civilian commander in chief. The President. To the extent the military had any involvement with the camps, it was under orders.

You seem to regard the military as some autonomous force in American society, beholden to no one. That is an ignorant and incorrect view.

Not at all. And to the degree your statements are true, and I agree with them, then they undermine the legitimacy of the assertion the military protect specific freedoms. They do not. They keep america from being invaded; it is up to the politicians and citizens to protect freedoms.

Regards,

Padraig Houlahan.

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