Matt D
Topic Author
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Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:15 am

This guy has hit the nail sqaurely on the head.

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/06/defend.html

and my favorite line:

"I know of no instances where appeasement, such as the current Western modus operandi, has borne fruit."
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:20 am

Who is this lunatic - is he seriously advocating turning the Middle East into a bubbling sheet of glass, killing a billion people, as a way of ending the War on Tourism ? And saying that the US should not be put off by "hand-wringing" about "collateral damage" ? Geezus - slight over-reaction, don't you think ? Is this the state of informed discussion in the US ? I hope not.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
DrDeke
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:20 am

Sooo, what? We should just nuke Iran, Syria and North Korea right now? Do you really think that sounds like a good idea?

-DrDeke
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
Klaus
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
and my favorite line:

"I know of no instances where appeasement, such as the current Western modus operandi, has borne fruit."

Yeah. We urgently need a few (more) massacres and more unreflected violence. That'll help for sure!  crazy   hypnotized 
 
Matt D
Topic Author
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:23 am

Yeah. We urgently need a few (more) massacres and more unreflected violence. That'll help for sure!

If it comes down to them or us, then I'd pull the trigger or press the proverbial button and not lose a wink of sleep over it.
Nip the problem right at the source.
 
N1120A
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:28 am

You are absolutely sick.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Klaus
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 4):
If it comes down to them or us, then I'd pull the trigger or press the proverbial button and not lose a wink of sleep over it.
Nip the problem right at the source.

Problem is that you're "preparing" for a kind of conflict which isn't actually being fought in reality, and you're woefully unequipped to deal with the ones which are.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Yeah. We urgently need a few (more) massacres and more unreflected violence.

Do not overlook this fact: many people in the west, and particularly in the US are becoming convinced that these massacres and this "unreflected" violence ARE COMING ANYWAY, but they are coming from the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah Al Qaeda et cetera. Many of us are coming to believe that there is not one single course of action open to the west that will prevent these masacres, this violence.

It is understandable that some people (most cooler-headed than the author of that opinion) would go to unthinkable steps to prevent this violence from occurring IN the west.

What, specifically would YOU do?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:51 am

You guys need to realize that majority of muslims are not terrorists. Watch some real news for once, not the paranoid crap you get on CNN from their "Situation room"  Yeah sure
 
N174UA
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:52 am

This religious battle has been going on for centuries, and will continue to do so. The underlying problem is that those folks have no incentive to reach a peace deal. We see truces and what not, but how soon after do they start killing each other again? Hell, the Isreali/Lebanon confilct is on its way to starting up again, becuase the dumbass Israelis thought they'd go in and kill some folks even though signed the truce!

Hell with them. Develop our solar cars and windmill farms, and leave those idiots to die in the desert. They don't want peace, and I don't think we should invest another dollar in either side.
 
Matt D
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:54 am

You are absolutely sick.

excuse me, but why?

What part of If it comes down to them or us was vague or unclear?

Are you saying that in a life or death struggle, I should volunteer my own life so that these people who still think with Pleistocene mindsets can feel better about themselves?
 
N1120A
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 10):

Given what you and this fool are advocating, the Pleistocene mindset comment seems to bring about the old adage "it takes one to know one"
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
What, specifically would YOU do?

Well I definitely would try to avoid creating the largest standing army in history by carrying out the largest genocide in history.

Nuke the middle east to deal with Islamic fundamentalism, and then revel in the wonder when you realise that out of the top ten worlds largest muslim populations, only Iran features from the middle east.

Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Morocco, Nigeria and Algeria all feature right up there with a combined total coming close to a billion Islamic citizens. Who now have a reason to fight.

If a few smaller populations can create the amount of fundamentalism we see today, what will a billion people with real significant motivation accomplish?

Go ahead, nuke. Watch the world fall apart afterward.
 
searpqx
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
What, specifically would YOU do?

What do you suggest we do? One of the favorite accusations from the current conservative crowd in power is that those that oppose them don't have any ideas of their own, they just oppose. Ok, you don't agree with the current course of action, what do you suggest?

As a side note, although the above may sound confrontational, I really am curious. I've wracked my brain and I honestly don't know what can be done. I don't think carpet bombing is the answer, but while I despise his rhetoric, I will agree with the author that appeasement has never resolved anything.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
Matt D
Topic Author
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:05 am

You guys need to realize that majority of muslims are not terrorists.

Point taken. But the other side of that argument is that the majority of terrorists ARE Muslim.

Therein lies the rub. Likewise the bigger picture here and the point the author was trying to make is: should we just surrender ourselves, our lives, our values, freedoms (what's left of them), and luxuries, all to avoid "offending" someone?

Why is everyone today so afraid of drawing a line in the sand....and doling out consequences to anyone who crosses said line?

If todays mindset was prevelant in the mid 1940's, then we'd all be speaking Japanese or German today. Is that what you wish had happend?
 
sean1234
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:08 am

Suppose a nuc goes off in Europe, Isreal or somewhere in the US, it is then traced back to Iran, you can then imagine that complete destruction of Iran would be in order. Hopefully this logic would prevent Iran from ever attempting such an act. Simply having the ability to destroy them in a few minutes should be enough deternece in itself.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 14):
Point taken. But the other side of that argument is that the majority of terrorists ARE Muslim.

Au Contrair (sp?), you didnt experience the IRA troubles, or the Loyalist strikes, or the ETA campaigns, maybe you did experience the Oklahoma bombing, or how about all the antiabortionist attacks in the past decade.

Islamic fundamentalist terrorism has become the main buzzword of today, but its not by far the majority.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:14 am

I agree with the article and challenge anyone who disagrees with Matt D to post something from the article that they feel is incorrect. Does anyone really believe Iran is going to give up their nuclear weapons program when there is absolutely no evidence/reason to think they would do so? They need to be stopped and I have faith that George W Bush doesn't want to be the President remembered for letting the global headquarters of Islamic terrorism acquire nuclear weapons.

As for the more general concept of appeasement, the Israel-Hezbollah conflict last month is a prime example of it...Pretty much every country in the world minus the United States was calling for a "proportionate" response to a clear act of war. Could we imagine if the United States fought WWII by responding to Japan "proportionately"? I think it's only a matter of time and more Western blood before the world is clear about the conflict it faces and becomes determined enough to fight it to win.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
SlamClick
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 12):
Well I definitely would try to avoid creating the largest standing army in history by carrying out the largest genocide in history.

What the hell does Russia have to do with this?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
Does anyone really believe Iran is going to give up their nuclear weapons program when there is absolutely no evidence/reason to think they would do so

No country has yet put forward any substantial evidence for the existence of such a program.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 18):
What the hell does Russia have to do with this?

I dont think Russia could ever field a billion combatants (Id be surprised if someone could prove me wrong there). Create a war on Islam, and thats what you will cause as those moderate Islamic populations from the countries mentioned before become radicalist in nature.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 12):
Nuke the middle east to deal with Islamic fundamentalism, and then revel in the wonder when you realise that out of the top ten worlds largest muslim populations, only Iran features from the middle east.

In the first place, I never said anything about nuking the middle east. In the second, I do believe that if nukes became the option, someone, somewhere would know about the rest of the Muslim nations. After all, even YOU did.

Anyone who decided, based on my reply #7 that I favor nukes as a solution is not very bright or doesn't read English very well. I even called it...

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
unthinkable

...and still you don't get it. Perhaps you should sit on the sidelines for a while and try to figure out what is being discussed here.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 21):

In the first place, I never said anything about nuking the middle east. In the second, I do believe that if nukes became the option, someone, somewhere would know about the rest of the Muslim nations. After all, even YOU did.

Anyone who decided, based on my reply #7 that I favor nukes as a solution is not very bright or doesn't read English very well. I even called it...

I apologise, my reply, while quoting you, was simply using the question you posed as what essentially every single one of these discussions boiuls down to - what would YOU do? The theme of the thread was to destroy the middle east, hence my inclusion of nuclear weapons in my answer.

Essentially you asked a leading question on the topic, and I answered on the topic.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:43 am

First off, this guy IS certifiable. You did notice it did say "A minority view" in the top left hand part of the page. But in his madness may be a harbinger of the future.

This guy wants, literally right now, to go to war with the entire Islamic world. He wants to threaten them with what Iran and jerks like OBL have threatened the U.S, Israel and the west with-annihilation. In other words, he is no better than they are. He wants the same thing in reverse.

The problem with this guy is we are NOT at that point yet, and may never get to that point. BUT, there is a chance, and a good one, that that point may be coming to the world.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 4):
If it comes down to them or us

It hasn't yet, Matt. That's why this guy is probably Bill Krystol with an alias name. Krystol put out a similar point not long ago-to bomb Iran into submission. For what? They have done nothing yet, and may not. Do we want to repeat the mistakes of the mess in Iraq?

But like I said, if the Islamic world keeps pushing-and they are, then we may get to that point. The terrorists push, and threaten, and the everyday Arab/Muslim rarely raises a hand in oppositon, or, more commonly, quitely approve of what these thugs do.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
It is understandable that some people (most cooler-headed than the author of that opinion) would go to unthinkable steps to prevent this violence from occurring IN the west.

True. But this guy is off this rocker if he thinks this is the time and place for such action.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 8):
You guys need to realize that majority of muslims are not terrorists.

True, but the majority either openly or tacitly support these guys-at least that's what the perception is. If they're against these terrorists, they need to hunt them down themselves and kill them. The fact they don't tells me they really don't mnd what they do.

That's called "complicity", VR.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
I agree with the article and challenge anyone who disagrees with Matt D to post something from the article that they feel is incorrect.

I feel it is not the time to even think of such things, and to blame Europe for this is idiotic, and it's a cop-out.

We can't do much right now because we're stretched in Iraq; to do this now would, and rightfully so, precipitate world condemnation, and maybe jackasses like this guy don't care about that, but I have news for him, you and MattD: we don't own the world, and we can't do whatever we please because you or him or anyone else is still scared to death of every shadow that moves.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
jacobin777
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):

Do not overlook this fact: many people in the west, and particularly in the US are becoming convinced that these massacres and this "unreflected" violence ARE COMING ANYWAY, but they are coming from the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah Al Qaeda et cetera. Many of us are coming to believe that there is not one single course of action open to the west that will prevent these masacres, this violence.

Hamas and Hezbollah attacking the United States?  rotfl 

Quoting Matt D (Reply 14):
Why is everyone today so afraid of drawing a line in the sand....and doling out consequences to anyone who crosses said line?


Millions ofpeople of the middle east are thinking the same thing....

-what governemnt invaded Iraq and now is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians every year?

-what government led to the overthrow of the iranian govt?

-what government spend hundreds of millions to provide arms to a group of people to fight the russians in Afghanistan only to leave the people "hang to dry" once the Russians pulled out?

and what about this?



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
I agree with the article and challenge anyone who disagrees with Matt D to post something from the article that they feel is incorrect. Does anyone really believe Iran is going to give up their nuclear weapons program when there is absolutely no evidence/reason to think they would do so? They need to be stopped and I have faith that George W Bush doesn't want to be the President remembered for letting the global headquarters of Islamic terrorism acquire nuclear weapons.

thats not what the article is about......nuking all of the said countries would also be end of half the planet (radiation), not to mention the end of Israel....radiation and direct bombs.....

this guy is a TOTAL Neanderthal and its funny to see who thinks and agrees with him...
"Up the Irons!"
 
Falcon84
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
Hamas and Hezbollah attacking the United States?

Al Qaeda did, is that not a fact, Jacobin? In this world where freedom of movement is still relatively easy, it is possible. Probable for those two organization of sub-humans? No, but it is possible.

And you REALLY need to find a new country, Jacobin. You're the most anti-American American I've ever seen on here.

Question to you, that was posed on another thread: if there were open war between the U.S. and the Islamic world, as a Muslim, which side would you take?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
rjpieces
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
thats not what the article is about......nuking all of the said countries would also be end of half the planet (radiation),

The author clearly stated: I'm not suggesting that we rush to use our nuclear capacity to crush states that support terrorism
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
jush
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting N174UA (Reply 9):
I don't think we should invest another dollar in either side.

Finally someone with an opinion I like... I absolutely concur.
Investing in any side doesn't make it better.

Regds
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 26):
The author clearly stated: I'm not suggesting that we rush to use our nuclear capacity to crush states that support terrorism

But he DID suggest that! He spent most of the article saying we should overtly threaten just that action! He may clearly state it, at the end, but there's not doubt he's beholden to the failed policy that has us bogged down in Iraq.

And you REALLY want to take that mistake to the next level?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
and what about this?


"useful idiot" George Galloway with Saddam Hussin in 1994

Your point was?
 
jacobin777
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):

Al Qaeda did, is that not a fact, Jacobin? In this world where freedom of movement is still relatively easy, it is possible. Probable for those two organization of sub-humans? No, but it is possible.

once again, Al Qaeda are a different organisation from Hezbollah, and certainly from Hamas......

unless there is a vast conspiracy theory, Al Qaeda up to this point hasn't worked with either too much..if at all....

Al Queda have crazy grandiose schemes...Hamas and Hezbollah are "localers"...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):

And you REALLY need to find a new country, Jacobin. You're the most anti-American American I've ever seen on here.

 rotfl ...you make me laugh sometimes with your inane comments....

You have a problem with me for critising the policies of our Government and questioning its motives? I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be some puss-ass "yes-men" type.....

Apropos..who the bloody 'ell are YOU to tell me where to go?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):
Question to you, that was posed on another thread: if there were open war between the U.S. and the Islamic world, as a Muslim, which side would you take?

And my answer is basically the same from the previous thread...that's not your decision to make...but for me to make if/when the time comes....

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 26):
The author clearly stated: I'm not suggesting that we rush to use our nuclear capacity to crush states that support terrorism

but what he alluded to was clear....
"Up the Irons!"
 
Falcon84
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
once again, Al Qaeda are a different organisation from Hezbollah, and certainly from Hamas......

Yes, they are, but if Hezbollah can afford to have a few thousand surface-to-surface missiles, they would be capable of sending people to the U.S. if they chose to do so.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
unless there is a vast conspiracy theory, Al Qaeda up to this point hasn't worked with either too much..if at all....

Never even mentioned that, did I?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
You have a problem with me for critising the policies of our Government and questioning its motives? I don't know about you, but I'm not going to be some puss-ass "yes-men" type.....

You go far beyond critisizing policy. You critisize the very fabric of this nation, and are found more on the side of the terrorists who would destroy all your freedoms here than you can be found on the side of your countrymen.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
Apropos..who the bloody 'ell are YOU to tell me where to go?

A great set-up for a great one-liner, but I don't to get banned.  Big grin

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
And my answer is basically the same from the previous thread...that's not your decision to make...but for me to make if/when the time comes....

If you cannot, right now, say you'd stand with your country, then I will say again-leave. Even an American who can't stand Mr. Bush, like myself, will never waver in my support for this nation. You are wavering as we speak.

Leave, please.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
rjpieces
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 28):
And you REALLY want to take that mistake to the next level?

I don't see much of an alternative. What's worse--a US air attack on Iranian nuclear facilities, or nuclear weapons in the hands of IRAN?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 32):
What's worse--a US air attack on Iranian nuclear facilities, or nuclear weapons in the hands of IRAN?

And this is worse than nuclear weapons in the hands of Pakistan, India, Israel, North Korea, how ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
padraighaz
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):
If you cannot, right now, say you'd stand with your country, then I will say again-leave. Even an American who can't stand Mr. Bush, like myself, will never waver in my support for this nation. You are wavering as we speak.

Leave, please.

Would you leave if asked by a native american?

Padraig Houlahan
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 34):
Would you leave if asked by a native american?

I AM a native American, friend. My family has been here since the 1600's. What's your point?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 29):
useful idiot" George Galloway with Saddam Hussin in 1994

Your point was?

Hypocritical policies of the United States Government... Wink

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):

A great set-up for a great one-liner, but I don't to get banned.  biggrin 

Maybe we can get A.net moderators to agree that you won't get banned for your one liner...in other words, I could care less.. Wink

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):
If you cannot, right now, say you'd stand with your country, then I will say again-leave. Even an American who can't stand Mr. Bush, like myself, will never waver in my support for this nation. You are wavering as we speak.



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):
Leave, please.

 rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 34):

Would you leave if asked by a native american?

 checkmark ...not to metion, what would many Jews do if the United States for some freak reason start a war with Israel?

It was a stupid-ass irrelevant questioned he asked.....

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):

Yes, they are, but if Hezbollah can afford to have a few thousand surface-to-surface missiles, they would be capable of sending people to the U.S. if they chose to do so.

if they wanted to, they probably can..which proves my point...they have other goals in mind.....

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):
Never even mentioned that, did I?

true, but it tied my points I wanted to make... biggrin 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):

You go far beyond critisizing policy. You critisize the very fabric of this nation, and are found more on the side of the terrorists who would destroy all your freedoms here than you can be found on the side of your countrymen.

that's your opinion buddy.....

What are you, the unofficial "judge" of A.net? If I'm on the side of the terrorists as you claim..then why have I..???

1)answered your queries a multitude of times that Israel has a right to exist
2)mentioned a bunch of times Al Queda are whack and dont' represent my religion
3)criticised Arafat for letting his people down.

Seems you like to selectively take comments I make spin it to suit your purposes..but I expect nothing less from you...

You recently had the flag of Israel to show your support of a country....A country which openly and blatantly violates human rights laws, blantanly violates tens of UN Resolutions, blantantly commits acts of "collective punishment", blantantly occupies illegal land and turns them into settlements, etc. etc..

and to top it off...has given citizenship and still wants the release of Jonathon Pollard...a complete Benedict Arnold....and thats ok with you it seems... sarcastic ..

Its hypocrites like you which really make me sick.. yuck 

" Israel publicly denied that Pollard was an Israeli spy until 1998, when he was granted Israeli citizenship. [1]"

"Exactly what information he gave to Israel has still not been officially revealed. Press reports cited a secret 46-page memorandum, provided to the judge by Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, which described Pollard's spying as including, among other things, obtaining and copying the latest version of Radio-Signal Notations, a 10-volume manual detailing America's global electronic surveillance network.[1] [2]

According to Eric Margolis in the Toronto Sun, Pollard provided Israel with the names of American agents in the Soviet Union. Margolis also alleges that the names were later traded to the Soviet Union by Israel and a number of key CIA agents were executed as a result. [2] Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker claims that "a number of officials strongly suspect that the Israelis repackaged much of Pollard's material and provided it to the Soviet Union in exchange for continued Soviet permission for Jews to emigrate to Israel." and that "a significant percentage of Pollard's documents, including some that described the techniques the American Navy used to track Soviet submarines around the world, was of practical importance only to the Soviet Union." [3]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
"Up the Irons!"
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 16):
Islamic fundamentalist terrorism has become the main buzzword of today, but its not by far the majority.

Rubbish, absolutel rubbish. If you sincerely believe this you are clearly detached from the real world.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
Al Queda have crazy grandiose schemes...Hamas and Hezbollah are "localers"...

How long ago was AQ considered "local"? Didn't AQ recently pledge allegiance to Hezbollah, EVEN THOUGH they are different sects of Islam. HELLO...these people are all crazy and do not operate within the bounds of reason that most on here do.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 34):
Would you leave if asked by a native american?

I AM a native American, friend. My family has been here since the 1600's. What's your point?

Ouch...so I guess the question to Paddy is would he leave if asked to by a Native American?
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 37):
How long ago was AQ considered "local"? Didn't AQ recently pledge allegiance to Hezbollah, EVEN THOUGH they are different sects of Islam. HELLO...these people are all crazy and do not operate within the bounds of reason that most on here do.

yah..but Hezbollah basically said "whatever" to AQ's pledge...
"Up the Irons!"
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
"I know of no instances where appeasement, such as the current Western modus operandi, has borne fruit."

With all you guys bitching, I have yet heard someone come up to a challenge to this simple statement. When has appeasement ever succeeded in stopping or preventing a bubbling war? At the most, AFAIK, it has only delayed the conflict and ensured that the final conflict is even bigger.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
bravo45
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 5:34 pm

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
I AM a native American, friend. My family has been here since the 1600's. What's your point?

Oh! So you are native and the Palestinians living there for longer than that can be thrown out of their land by the 'real natives' who used to live there twice as long ago. How many definitions of 'native' do you have to use in your arguments?
Sorry to be off topic, this thread is too S**tty to respond to.
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
2)mentioned a bunch of times Al Queda are whack and dont' represent my religion

LMAO.

They are whack? Like, does that mean "a little off" or "Bat shit cray and I'd kill them if given the chance"?
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
My family has been here since the 1600's

Gette thee back to Englande, noobe.

Signed
Pocohontas

 Smile
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):
Quoting Jamesag96 (Reply 37):
How long ago was AQ considered "local"? Didn't AQ recently pledge allegiance to Hezbollah, EVEN THOUGH they are different sects of Islam. HELLO...these people are all crazy and do not operate within the bounds of reason that most on here do.

yah..but Hezbollah basically said "whatever" to AQ's pledge...

Riiiiiiiight...trustworthy as they are. Come on man.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 39):
Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
"I know of no instances where appeasement, such as the current Western modus operandi, has borne fruit."

With all you guys bitching, I have yet heard someone come up to a challenge to this simple statement. When has appeasement ever succeeded in stopping or preventing a bubbling war? At the most, AFAIK, it has only delayed the conflict and ensured that the final conflict is even bigger.

There is no defense to that, appeasement has never succeeded but that point has seemingly been glossed over by most on this thread.

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 40):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
I AM a native American, friend. My family has been here since the 1600's. What's your point?

Oh! So you are native and the Palestinians living there for longer than that can be thrown out of their land by the 'real natives' who used to live there twice as long ago. How many definitions of 'native' do you have to use in your arguments?
Sorry to be off topic, this thread is too S**tty to respond to.

That is factually incorrect, Jews lived along side the Muslims for hundreds of years...up to and including 1948.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5438
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
You recently had the flag of Israel to show your support of a country....A country which openly and blatantly violates human rights laws, blantanly violates tens of UN Resolutions, blantantly commits acts of "collective punishment", blantantly occupies illegal land and turns them into settlements, etc. etc..

Blah, blah, blah. Tell us something we haven't heard from you already. BTW, why don't you worry about human rights in the Muslim world? Not a pretty picture, that's for sure.
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 35):
I AM a native American, friend. My family has been here since the 1600's. What's your point?

My Point? That I bet some of the residents on local reservations here in AZ might laugh at your claim to be native. If being here from the 1600's gives weight to your claim, what about the indian tribes - usually referred to as 'native americans' who have been here much longer?

My guess is they didn't invite your ancestors here, and to the extent you assume the right to tell others to leave, you validiate real natives who wanted whites to leave. So, I repeat the question: would you leave if asked to do so by a (real - not a johhny-come-lately) native american?

Regards

Padraig Houlahan
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 41):

They are whack? Like, does that mean "a little off" or "Bat shit cray and I'd kill them if given the chance"?

how about one times the other raised to both powered squared....

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 43):

Riiiiiiiight...trustworthy as they are. Come on man.

no, but they do use the media as a conduit, and it is a bit embarrassing for AQ to be "rejected" by Hezbollah...

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 44):
Blah, blah, blah. Tell us something we haven't heard from you already. BTW, why don't you worry about human rights in the Muslim world? Not a pretty picture, that's for sure.

Blah, blah, blah, this discussion had nothing to do with it... ...

[Edited 2006-08-24 00:19:37]
"Up the Irons!"
 
bravo45
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 5:34 pm

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 43):
That is factually incorrect, Jews lived along side the Muslims for hundreds of years...up to and including 1948.

huh!
I am reffering to the millions forced to live in the refugee camps after being ethnically cleansed by the 'real natives' I mentioned, including the settlements. THAT is a fact!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 40):
Oh! So you are native and the Palestinians living there for longer than that can be thrown out of their land by the 'real natives' who used to live there twice as long ago. How many definitions of 'native' do you have to use in your arguments?
Sorry to be off topic, this thread is too S**tty to respond to.

I have always stated my desire to see a Palestinian state, right beside Israel. I've never said otherwise, so your point is moot, my friend.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 45):
My Point? That I bet some of the residents on local reservations here in AZ might laugh at your claim to be native.

They can laugh all they want. I was born here, just like they were, as was my father, his father, his father's father, all the way back to the mid-1600's.

If you don't want to classify me as a native American because of some pablum of Political Correctness, that's your problem, not mine.

I'm as much a native American as they are. Case closed.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 45):
If being here from the 1600's gives weight to your claim, what about the indian tribes - usually referred to as 'native americans' who have been here much longer?

So they've been here longer. So what? Again, how far back to you and your PC mentality want to head into the past to classify someone as a native. I am a native: I've never lived anywhere else.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
jamesag96
Posts: 2007
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 2:59 am

RE: Appeasement: Why The US Is In Deep Trouble

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 47):
Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 43):
That is factually incorrect, Jews lived along side the Muslims for hundreds of years...up to and including 1948.

huh!
I am reffering to the millions forced to live in the refugee camps after being ethnically cleansed by the 'real natives' I mentioned, including the settlements. THAT is a fact!

That isn't what you said:

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 40):
Oh! So you are native and the Palestinians living there for longer than that can be thrown out of their land by the 'real natives' who used to live there twice as long ago.


Notice your own stress on used to and twice as long ago. The reality is they co-existed while you seem to think the area was void of Jews until they came along in their Jew landing craft and took over the area which is not true.

The reality of the situation is that the Palestinian people are nothing more than pawns in a game played by Muslim countries bent on the destruction of Israel. Sadly they are nothing more than an excuse, an open festering sore trotted out in front of cameras when it serves "their" purpose...no one was more proof of that than Arafat himself.
Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.

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