dl021
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Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:08 am

I've been trying to figure this out. Did they get forgotten in all of this?

Did the UN wish them away?

Are they back in Israel? Did they get taken to Iran or somewhere else?

Who has the answer?
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RichardPrice
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:22 am

Reading the UNSC Resolution 1701 (http://daccess-ods.un.org/TMP/5697202.html) the soldiers are only mentioned in brief:

Quote:

Emphasizing the need for an end of violence, but at the same time emphasizing the need to address urgently the causes that have given rise to the current crisis, including by the unconditional release of the abducted Israeli soldiers,

Mindful of the sensitivity of the issue of prisoners and encouraging the efforts
aimed at urgently settling the issue of the Lebanese prisoners detained in Israel,

As far as I know, Hezbollah still possess them as prisoners.

As a side note, is anyone else amused by the way UNSC resolutions are layed out?
 
dl021
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
As a side note, is anyone else amused by the way UNSC resolutions are layed out?

Bemused more like it.

I read that and wondered what is being done about this now. I think that the UN is wishing they'd go away, but I can say that Israel won't forget about these two soldiers.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
qr332
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:31 am

And I think it has been proven that bombing the shit out of Lebanon isn't going to get the Israelis anywhere... as far as I know they're still Hezbollah prisoners, and Hezbollah has said that the only way they will be released is through indirect negotiations with Israel.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
I read that and wondered what is being done about this now. I think that the UN is wishing they'd go away, but I can say that Israel won't forget about these two soldiers.

By all intents and purposes, I think the UN isnt dealing with the issue of them because its an extremely complex one.

What Im wondering is whether the UN force will be used to protect the Golan Heights, which the UN considers Syrian territory under illegal Israeli occupation.
 
dl021
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:40 am

Israel was not forced to stop by Hizballah...they were persuaded by their allies and the UN and assured they would get their people back by the international community.

I'd bet that any smugness by any backer of hizballah would immediately be turned to indignation if the Israelis got pissed about not getting their people back. They're not going to negotiate for their release, and they're not going to give up Palestinian prisoners. And why did Hizballah snatch Israelis for Palestine if they're purely about keeping Israel out of Lebanon? Check your posts today and see if that's what you said their purpose is.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 5):
I'd bet that any smugness by any backer of hizballah would immediately be turned to indignation if the Israelis got pissed about not getting their people back. They're not going to negotiate for their release, and they're not going to give up Palestinian prisoners. And why did Hizballah snatch Israelis for Palestine if they're purely about keeping Israel out of Lebanon? Check your posts today and see if that's what you said their purpose is.

Well, note that the UNSC resolution also contains reference to Lebanese prisoners held by Israel.

As I said before, its a complex issue.
 
soups
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
Did they get forgotten in all of this?

This war IS has clearly got nothing to do about those 2 prisoners, it was just an excuse. what did Irael get out of the war? NOTHING!!

Quoting QR332 (Reply 3):
And I think it has been proven that bombing the shit out of Lebanon isn't going to get the Israelis anywhere

Very well said

Quoting QR332 (Reply 3):
as far as I know they're still Hezbollah prisoners, and Hezbollah has said that the only way they will be released is through indirect negotiations with Israel.

And i hope they remain there for a long time until prisoners on the other side are released
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
qr332
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 5):
Israel was not forced to stop by Hizballah...they were persuaded by their allies and the UN and assured they would get their people back by the international community

I never said they were, but they cannot win against Hezbollah... after one month of bombing the hell out of Lebanon, the day before the ceasefire saw the second highest number of rockets fired at Israel since the start of the conflict. The Israeli soldiers, IMO, would not have been returned by force...

Quoting DL021 (Reply 5):
I'd bet that any smugness by any backer of hizballah would immediately be turned to indignation if the Israelis got pissed about not getting their people back. They're not going to negotiate for their release, and they're not going to give up Palestinian prisoners. And why did Hizballah snatch Israelis for Palestine if they're purely about keeping Israel out of Lebanon? Check your posts today and see if that's what you said their purpose is.

Palestinian prisoners? They kidnapped the soldiers to negotiate the release of Lebanese POWs, although they would have probably tried to negotiate the release of Palestinian ones too. But, this was primarily done for Lebanese POWs being held without trial, which Israel is not negotiating about.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
L-188
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting QR332 (Reply 8):
kidnapped the soldiers to negotiate the release of Lebanese POWs,

Negotiate? That is funny...

I hate to say if but those two are probably in a shallow grave somewhere in Lebanon or Syria.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dl021
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting QR332 (Reply 8):
They kidnapped the soldiers to negotiate the release of Lebanese POWs,

Their idea of how to negotiate is rather non-conducive to positive peace talks or negotiating in good faith. It's terrorism and it should not me rewarded with any measure of success or it will never end.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 6):
As I said before, its a complex issue.

Yes...but then again, no. The matter at hand here is the kidnapping of two soldiers. If Hizballah and the Lebanese wish to call this a war then they need to stop whining when Israel prosecutes a war. If it's a criminal action then the Lebanese needs to apply whatever pressure is necessary to gain the release of the two Israelis.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 8):
although they would have probably tried to negotiate the release of Palestinian ones too. But, this was primarily done for Lebanese POWs being held without trial, which Israel is not negotiating about.

So, you acknowledge...and this is a question...that they would have spread out their demands and played the Israelis for things that had nothing to do with Lebanon?
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
SlamClick
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:16 am

I assume they are the reason Jesse Jackson is going to the middle east.

Surprised there is not a big thread about that on here.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
LY744
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):
What Im wondering is whether the UN force will be used to protect the Golan Heights, which the UN considers Syrian territory under illegal Israeli occupation.

The U.N. has kind of been in the Golah Heights for about 32 years now. As their SOP goes, they are essentially playing for the Syrian team.

Quoting Soups (Reply 7):
And i hope they remain there for a long time

Good to know where you stand.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 5):
And why did Hizballah snatch Israelis for Palestine if they're purely about keeping Israel out of Lebanon?

Well their stated goal is the elimination of Israel.

Speaking of which, it's nice to see the global outpouring of Lebanese pride, but one has to wonder where all this sentiment was before. You know, when a powerful militant organization was holding rallies in that nations capital, swearing their allegiance to the spiritiaul leader of a whole other nation...


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
dl021
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
I assume they are the reason Jesse Jackson is going to the middle east.

I sort of figured that he's going out there to burnish his public image. I'll admit that he has gotten servicemen and women released under similar circumstances before and I hope he succeeds.

Quoting LY744 (Reply 12):
Speaking of which, it's nice to see the global outpouring of Lebanese pride, but one has to wonder where all this sentiment was before. You know, when a powerful militant organization was holding rallies in that nations capital, swearing their allegiance to the spiritiaul leader of a whole other nation...

We're not insinuating crocodile tears are we?

Quoting Soups (Reply 7):
Quoting QR332 (Reply 3):
as far as I know they're still Hezbollah prisoners, and Hezbollah has said that the only way they will be released is through indirect negotiations with Israel.

And i hope they remain there for a long time until prisoners on the other side are released

So you are ok with terrorist tactics? Or do you think that this IS a war and Israel should prosecute it as such? Can't have it both ways, can you?
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:09 am

after reading through all the posts, it simply is pure speculation. Israel for days concentrated on attacking and terrorizing Beirut, so that Hizbullah had sufficient time to transfer the kidnapped Israel to whatever destination.
 
miamix707
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 3):
And I think it has been proven that bombing the shit out of Lebanon isn't going to get the Israelis anywhere...

While I feel bad for the ppl of Lebanon, you have to be crazy to say Israel didn't get anywhere, especially when there is an international force in place to guard against the Hezbollah "party of God" lunatics from provoking anything. So Israel didn't get the two soldiers but will have an intl force checking up on Hezbollah. I doubt the Lebanese is gonna let Hezbollah foolishly fire rockets into Israel again, because they know whats coming.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 8):
I never said they were, but they cannot win against Hezbollah...

wow.. that sounds like someone who admires these lunatics

Quoting Soups (Reply 7):
And i hope they remain there for a long time until prisoners on the other side are released

Are you serious man? Good thing you don't call the shots in your country! That sounds like something only some bonehead dictator would say. Yeah so Israel has ot release all these terrorist, terrorist suppoters and lunatics so they can get 3 soldiers that were abducted in Israeli territory no less.. Love your logic. Good thing you'r not part of Ghana's govt. I hope not.
 
tu204
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 2:44 pm

Well, as I said a month ago, either these soldiers do not exist or the IDF does not care about their men that have been taken hostage and used them as pawns. However I am almost willing to renounce my theory that they did not exist because this war was almost like a gift for Hezbollah (it benefited them way too much for this to have been started by Israel).
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
soups
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:25 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 15):
Are you serious man?

This comes from someone who bought his 1st apartment 3 month ago and now it has vanished
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:05 pm

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 16):
or the IDF does not care about their men

The IDF is not the Russian Army.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:19 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 15):
when there is an international force in place to guard against the Hezbollah "party of God" lunatics from provoking anything. So Israel didn't get the two soldiers but will have an intl force checking up on Hezbollah. I doubt the Lebanese is gonna let Hezbollah foolishly fire rockets into Israel again, because they know whats coming.

the international force has TWO things to do. ONE is to stop Hizbullah from attacking Israel, the OTHER one is to, in conjunction with the Lebanese army, prevent Israel from attacking Lebanon again. And whenever I agree to some extent with your judgment about Hizbullah, you should stop your "lunatics" thing, as this is beside the point.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 15):
Israel has ot release all these terrorist, terrorist suppoters and lunatics

Here you go again. What is demanded is not the release of terrorists, but of people who were captured by the IDF. This may possibly include some terrorists, but this is unproven. And you might specify what exactly you regard as a "terrorist-supporter". And finally, "lunatics" again ! Apparently a kind of obsession of yours ?
 
tu204
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 18):
The IDF is not the Russian Army.

Really? Well, they may not have as many nuclear warheads, but they still do a good job of screwing up, handing over victory to Hezbollah and didn't get their men back...if that was ever their intention  Smile
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 20):
didn't get their men back..

they WILL get them back, in the framework of a negotiated prisoners exchange. I have just opened a new topic, as the question no longer is where they are
 
dl021
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
they WILL get them back, in the framework of a negotiated prisoners exchange

I will castigate the Israelis to the ends of the earth if they negotiate and give anything for the release of those soldiers. If they cave to this they'll never see the end of terrorist activity.
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jfk69
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 16):
he IDF does not care about their men that have been



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 18):
The IDF is not the Russian Army.

Yeah....if the Kursk was a Israeli Submarine, I think the sailors may have been saved...........
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 22):
hey WILL get them back, in the framework of a negotiated prisoners exchange

I will castigate the Israelis to the ends of the earth if they negotiate and give anything for the release of those soldiers. If they cave to this they'll never see the end of terrorist activity.

they quite obviously already HAVE negotiated, through German mediation, with Hizbullah, and the deal appears to be almost fixed and done. It looks as if they went into negotiations as soon as realising that they could NOT locate them. And it anyway is NOT the first such deal of them. This time, most of those Lebanese kidnapped by the IDF at earlier occasions will get freed. And the exchange will be conducted under German supervision.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:27 pm

Well the US never got Osama either. Look where we are now. Best of luck to get them back.
You can't cure stupid
 
tu204
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:03 pm

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 23):
Yeah....if the Kursk was a Israeli Submarine, I think the sailors may have been saved...........

I am impressed at the ignorance of some of you. THE ENTIRE SUBMARINE FLOODED WITHIN 7 HOURS. It would have been PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to deliver a rescue sub and stage a rescue operation in that time!
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
EK156
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:56 pm

The problem with Israel is that it believes everything is solved by terror and force. If someone tickles an Israeli Soldier, they bomb the shit out of him, his family, his house and his entire country and immediatly call him a terrorist, anti-semtic and Israel would hide behind tha fact that it is defending itself!!!

Keep them afraid and at bay!!! Show them who is tough!!! Well this time Israel messed up BIG TIME!!! Cause after 33 days of destroying half of Lebanon, they couldn't locate the soldiers, couldn't stop the rockets by Hizbullah, couldn't reach Litani etc....

But there is NO winner in this war!!!! What a STUPID catasrophy!!! The arrogance and ignorance created an UNNECCESSARY war. Regardless of whether Hizbullah was at fault regarding the kidnapping of the soldiers, Israel did not even think of approaching the UN to demand their release... they immediatly started pounding Lebanon left, right and center.... Everyone was shocked about the response... even Hizbullah to the extent that Narsallah yesterday announced in a TV interview that if he knew that Israel was going to react like this, he would have never ordered the kidnapping of the soldiers...

The kidnapped soldiers became a burden on both sides and everyone LOST!!! So I believe with this MASSIVE loss, this is the ONLY time to create a long lasting peace in the Middle East.... make it now.. or lose it forever... And Israel... STOP being arrogant... power does not work anymore... it is an old weapon... diplomacy and peace is now or never...

And yes the Soldiers are going to be released in an exchange of prisoners very soon.... and ENOUGH Blood shed pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaseee!!!
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 27):
The problem with Israel is that it believes everything is solved by terror and force.

well, they have become used to enjoying the total strategic superiority, in the words of successive US leaderships the "balance of power in the Middle East", so that they always see themselves in the role of the "leaders" and as the ones who were/are to punish whomever did/does NOT act according to their idea.
 
dl021
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 27):
The problem with Israel is that it believes everything is solved by terror and force. If someone tickles an Israeli Soldier, they bomb the shit out of him, his family, his house and his entire country and immediatly call him a terrorist, anti-semtic and Israel would hide behind tha fact that it is defending itself!!!

"tickles" a soldier? You have a way of diminishing the truth here.

Quoting EK156 (Reply 27):
The arrogance and ignorance created an UNNECCESSARY war

Who's arrogance and ignorance? The terrorists or the nation that was being attacked?

Quoting EK156 (Reply 27):
Regardless of whether Hizbullah was at fault regarding the kidnapping of the soldiers, Israel did not even think of approaching the UN to demand their release... they immediatly started pounding Lebanon left, right and center.... Everyone was shocked about the response... even Hizbullah to the extent that Narsallah yesterday announced in a TV interview that if he knew that Israel was going to react like this, he would have never ordered the kidnapping of the soldiers...

Then perhaps he'll think twice prior to attacking a sovereign state. His statement is that of a spanked child who is justifying his actions and reactions to his peers who also were punished for the actions of the central instigator.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 29):
to his peers

"his peers" ? that was Iran, and Iran had nothing to suffer, nothing at all. The Republic of Lebanon was NOT "his peers".

Quoting DL021 (Reply 29):
were punished for the actions of the central instigator.


"central instigator" is an undeserved praise for that man, a praise he would LOVE to hear. Well, praise and elevation for him is exactly what he desires !
 
EK156
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 29):
Then perhaps he'll think twice prior to attacking a sovereign state. His statement is that of a spanked child who is justifying his actions and reactions to his peers who also were punished for the actions of the central instigator.

Sovereign state???? More like a forced state and an occupier!!! You talk like Israel is innocent here!!! It is an OCCUPIER and an OPRESSOR.... Occupation creates violence... that is basic common sense...

End the Occupation and everything will be over... SIMPLE
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 31):
Israel is innocent here!!!

in the West, Israel is regarded as THE innocent country, just threatened by evil people. THEIR wellbeing has top priority all the time ...........
 
LY744
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 31):
End the Occupation and everything will be over

...especially jews in the middle east.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
cedars747
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting DL021 (Thread starter):
Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Somewhere between Lebanon and Iran  Wink
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
tu204
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 29):
Who's arrogance and ignorance? The terrorists or the nation that was being attacked?

Alot of countries, including the Russian Federation do not consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organisation.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
TNNH
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:58 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 31):
End the Occupation and everything will be over... SIMPLE

Nobody believes that bullshit anymore. Sorry.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 35):
the Russian Federation do not consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organisation

And this should surprise who?
 
tu204
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 37):
And this should surprise who?

Ummm, lets see, if was formed to fight the illegal occupation of Lebanon by Israeli forces in the 80's. So tell me why Hezbollah should be considered a terrorist organisation and the IDF shouldn't?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 27):
The problem with Israel is that it believes everything is solved by terror and force. If someone tickles an Israeli Soldier, they bomb the shit out of him, his family, his house and his entire country and immediatly call him a terrorist, anti-semtic and Israel would hide behind tha fact that it is defending itself!!!

I understand your point. Now lets see, if you stick your hand through a fence and you know there's a dog on the other side that can bite you, (and it bit you before) if you keep sticking your hand that's just stupid. Not only that, but then YOU are the one provoking the dog  

Quoting EK156 (Reply 27):
Everyone was shocked about the response... even Hizbullah to the extent that Narsallah yesterday announced in a TV interview that if he knew that Israel was going to react like this, he would have never ordered the kidnapping of the soldiers...

Tell me you're not this easily fooled.. do you think the LUNATIC cares? He was just saying that to save face for his organization. Now what the Lebanese should do (or should've done a long time ago) is to kick him out of there, just like they did with Syria.

Quoting EK156 (Reply 31):
Sovereign state???? More like a forced state and an occupier!!! You talk like Israel is innocent here!!! It is an OCCUPIER and an OPRESSOR.... Occupation creates violence... that is basic common sense...

You ppl are too stubborn, sigh.. :/ You will never learn to recognize and hate on THE ONLY DEMOCRACY in that whole region.

Do you see the Mexicans suidide bombing the US?

You create violence only if you want to. If everybody else in the world that has been occupied at a certain time decided to bomb each other there'd probably be no one left by now! By that logic the Japanese would have retaliated and bombed half of the world! Now, let's say Israel shoudln't have a state, but that the "Palestians" should be there instead.. Gee, I rather have a country as advanced as Israel than a culture similar to something like Saudi Arabia. Which one would you prefer to raise your kids in EK?


Israel is always the one who has to make concesssions, but when will anybody make any consessions to Israel? Why don't other states like Saudi Arabia with planty of land take some Palestinans or hey, create a state for them there? Where is the supposed Arab solidarity if they truly care so much for the Palestinians?

The blame the Jews game is something that will always be used by the surrounding countries to deviate attention from their own social problems. The other contries refuse to acknowledge Israel is not really the problem and go along because of the Arab oil, and the cycle will continue...

[Edited 2006-08-29 00:58:02]
 
aviationwiz
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 38):
So tell me why Hezbollah should be considered a terrorist organisation and the IDF shouldn't?

The same reason the US Army shouldn't be considered a terrorist organization. It is the military arm of a legitimate country, as opposed to an illegal military arm of an organization bent on the destruction of another country.
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
tu204
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 40):
The same reason the US Army shouldn't be considered a terrorist organization. It is the military arm of a legitimate country, as opposed to an illegal military arm of an organization bent on the destruction of another country.

Once can argue about how legitimate of a country Israel is...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
miamix707
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 18):
The IDF is not the Russian Army.

lol good answer

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 35):
Alot of countries, including the Russian Federation do not consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organisation

I would not have any respect for my government if they didn't consider terrorists a group whose idea is to destroy a neighboring country. If that's true, shame on Russia.  Sad
 
tu204
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 42):
I would not have any respect for my government if they didn't consider terrorists a group whose idea is to destroy a neighboring country. If that's true, shame on Russia.

Hezobollah was formed to fight off an illegal Israeli occupation of Lebanon. They were defending their own country against an agressor. Their only action that I disagree about was what they did a month ago. They (were) no longer occupied and no longer under any threat from Israel, that kidnapping was not justified. But all the attacks they carried out while being occupied I do not consider acts of terrorist but rather partisan. So if you want to condem them for what they did when they were (illegally occupied), you must also condem the french partisans for their actions against the German occupying army in World War 2, aswell as all the partisans in the occupied countries during that war. If you do not want to be a hypocrite ofcourse. And I do not think that you are.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 15):
While I feel bad for the ppl of Lebanon, you have to be crazy to say Israel didn't get anywhere, especially when there is an international force in place to guard against the Hezbollah "party of God" lunatics from provoking anything. So Israel didn't get the two soldiers but will have an intl force checking up on Hezbollah. I doubt the Lebanese is gonna let Hezbollah foolishly fire rockets into Israel again, because they know whats coming.

I disagree... Hezbollah is still strong, the soldiers aren't back, the Lebanese Shi'aa still support Hezbollah, and none of the stated goals were achieved. Hell, the day before the ceasefire took effect was the day that the 2nd largest amount of rockets were fired since this conflict started, which isn't surprising considering south Beirut's sky looked like the 4th of July that night.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 15):
wow.. that sounds like someone who admires these lunatics

No, it sounds like someone realistic. Hezbollah now have a stronger standing with many Lebanese because they are seen as the only force capable of resisting Israeli aggression; the Lebanese army is not capable of doing anything and did nothing but stand by and watch while even its own soldiers were being killed - this puts Hezbollah in a very good position, especially with the Shi'aas.

Furthermore, Hezbollah knows its territory very well, they know where and how to hide, as they proved in this conflict, and they have been very effective. Israel is used to just going into the country it wants to invade and doing whatever it wants to do without any serious damage, and certainly without Israeli territory being hit. Hezbollah put up quite a fight, considering it was fighting one of the world's strongest armies.

Finally, there is something you forget. Now that a new generation of children have seen what Israel is like first hand, even if Hezbollah is destroyed, other organisations just like it will be formed. How do you think the child who has just seen his house get bombed to bits feels about Israel, or the girl who has just lost her parents?

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 15):
Are you serious man? Good thing you don't call the shots in your country! That sounds like something only some bonehead dictator would say. Yeah so Israel has ot release all these terrorist, terrorist suppoters and lunatics so they can get 3 soldiers that were abducted in Israeli territory no less.. Love your logic. Good thing you'r not part of Ghana's govt. I hope not.

Read above. They are mostly Lebanese POWs being held since pre-2000 without trial. If they really are terrorists, why not try them and prove it? Surely Israel is holding them on more than just gut instinct.  Yeah sure

Quoting DL021 (Reply 29):
Who's arrogance and ignorance? The terrorists or the nation that was being attacked?

The nation that was being attacked? Israel had two soldiers kidnapped, and it decided to screw all of Lebanon for it. Israel's arrogance was pretty much evident for all to see, considering how they showed a complete lack of regard for human life as well as how they kept using the excuses of "self defence" and "Hezbollah was hiding there" every time they killed civilians, not to mention demanding that all Lebanese leave south of the Litani, and then going on to kill them as they fleed.

Quoting LY744 (Reply 33):
...especially jews in the middle east.

Gee, I can really see how Israel giving back all of the land it occupies could lead to that  Yeah sure

Quoting TNNH (Reply 36):
Nobody believes that bullshit anymore. Sorry.

Yet you guys have no problem believing that 1,000 civilians died because "Hezbollah were hiding there". Priceless. Says a lot about your intelligence.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 39):
I understand your point. Now lets see, if you stick your hand through a fence and you know there's a dog on the other side that can bite you, (and it bit you before) if you keep sticking your hand that's just stupid. Not only that, but then YOU are the one provoking the dog

Well, when the dog has already attacked you in the past and it is holding your valuables in its teeth, surely you are going to try to get them back.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 39):
Tell me you're not this easily fooled.. do you think the LUNATIC cares? He was just saying that to save face for his organization. Now what the Lebanese should do (or should've done a long time ago) is to kick him out of there, just like they did with Syria.

He doesn't need to save face for his organization, he already has plenty of support. This isn't Osama Bin Laden your talking about, Hassan Nasrallah is a completley different person who has done wonders for the Shi'aa community in Lebanon; there is no way they would allow him to be kicked out of Lebanon.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 39):
You ppl are too stubborn, sigh.. :/ You will never learn to recognize and hate on THE ONLY DEMOCRACY in that whole region.

Wow... what a shining beacon we should all look up to. I mean, it has the best track record in the world; being established by kicking out 800,000 people from their homeland, massacring people in Palestine and Lebanon, occupying three different territories that aren't Israel's... wow, now there's a country I want to associate myself with!

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 39):
Do you see the Mexicans suidide bombing the US?

Do you see the US holding Mexican prisoners for no reason without trial and the US occupying Mexican land? Did the US invade Mexico and lead to the death of 17,000 civilians both directly and indirectly? Does the US send F-16s over Mexico City to break the sound barrier in order to provoke Mexico (soemthing I have seen personally)? Then your argument is absurd.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 39):
You create violence only if you want to. If everybody else in the world that has been occupied at a certain time decided to bomb each other there'd probably be no one left by now! By that logic the Japanese would have retaliated and bombed half of the world! Now, let's say Israel shoudln't have a state, but that the "Palestians" should be there instead.. Gee, I rather have a country as advanced as Israel than a culture similar to something like Saudi Arabia. Which one would you prefer to raise your kids in EK?

I would really love to know why you put "Palestians" (whoever they are) in brackets. We Palestinians are a very real people whether you like it or not. And what do you mean occupied at one point? Israel still occupies Palestinian land today?

Also, your solution is absurd! Saudis and Palestinians are very different people, with very different cultures. Palestinians belong in Palestine, and what you are suggesting is pretty much the same as saying let Mexico take Florida and send all the Caucasians and Blacks over to some other state, as it should only be Hispanic. Would you be OK with that, Miami?

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 39):
Israel is always the one who has to make concesssions, but when will anybody make any consessions to Israel? Why don't other states like Saudi Arabia with planty of land take some Palestinans or hey, create a state for them there? Where is the supposed Arab solidarity if they truly care so much for the Palestinians?

What concessions has Israel made? Giving back Sinai (land that wasn't theres to begin with) back to Israel more than 20 years ago? If this is what Israel is like while it gives concessions, I would hate to see it when it doesn't.

Also, why should we leave Palestine? Why should we go to the desert and build a state there, because our existence is inconvenient to Israelis and people like yourself? Listen, buddy, my hometown is Nablus, Palestine, not Palestineland, Saudi Arabia, and it will always be that - over my dead body will I accept to be forced out to live in some other country. The Palestinians belong in their home, nowhere else, I don't care if they're all Arab too.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 39):
The blame the Jews game is something that will always be used by the surrounding countries to deviate attention from their own social problems. The other contries refuse to acknowledge Israel is not really the problem and go along because of the Arab oil, and the cycle will continue...

What countries are blaming the Jews for their problems? When people blame someone, they blame Israel, and usually Israel fully deserves the blame. Lebanon just got completley screwed over, and Palestinians have been getting screwed over for 58 years, all because of Israel and nobody else.

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 40):
The same reason the US Army shouldn't be considered a terrorist organization. It is the military arm of a legitimate country, as opposed to an illegal military arm of an organization bent on the destruction of another country.

So suicide bomber blowing up people in a cafe = terrorist.
IAF aircraft bombing apartment buildings = Legitimate force carrying out self defence.

Both are terrorists in my eyes.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 44):
He doesn't need to save face for his organization, he already has plenty of support

Not among the Western powers that usually are the ones that have to go try to clean up the mess diplomatically as usual after the kids start doing stupid things and innocently playing, taking soliders, etc.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 43):
Hezobollah was formed to fight off an illegal Israeli occupation of Lebanon. They were defending their own country against an agressor.


Was Lebanon about to be invated by Israel right before this conflict in any way? Sorry, I don't see a reason for Hezbollah.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 44):
Yet you guys have no problem believing that 1,000 civilians died because "Hezbollah were hiding there". Priceless. Says a lot about your intelligence.

He's not stupid, just informed, and not a fannatic. You on the other hand are letting your feelings of hate and envy dictate your thoughts. Therefore you'll never be able to see things from another point of view.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 44):
We Palestinians are a very real people whether you like it or not. And what do you mean occupied at one point? Israel still occupies Palestinian land today?

You guys are a people and should be respected no doubt. I'm neither Jewish nor Palestinian and can tell you the Jewisjh are a "race" with much more tradition and therefore I admire them, and admire all they've gone through. Unfortunately the same can't say for those who created and exported something like "suicide bombing".

Quoting QR332 (Reply 44):
Also, your solution is absurd! Saudis and Palestinians are very different people, with very different cultures. Palestinians belong in Palestine, and what you are suggesting is pretty much the same as saying let Mexico take Florida and send all the Caucasians and Blacks over to some other state, as it should only be Hispanic. Would you be OK with that, Miami?

Stop nitpicking, I think you know what I meant. Your example doesn't make any sense by the way.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 44):
What concessions has Israel made? Giving back Sinai (land that wasn't theres to begin with) back to Israel more than 20 years ago? If this is what Israel is like while it gives concessions, I would hate to see it when it doesn't.

There have been others concessions but you'll never be happy anyways or acknowdlege Israel and/or live in peace.
 
tu204
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
Not our fault they're stupid.

You are saying that the Russian government is stupid. Let me remind you, we do not make knee-jerk reactions that end up destroying entires countries and causing massive civil wars.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
cedars747
Posts: 2584
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:25 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
Well, then maybe the IDF needs to go find them, somewhere between Lebanon and Iran.

Oh no ! Chuck Norris can do this mission Big grin
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 48):
Oh no ! Chuck Norris can do this mission

Chuck Norris? He's such a kaker!

Here's 'da man fo da job!

There's no need to fear...SuperJew is here!



 biggrin 
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Where Are The Two Israeli Soldiers?

Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:28 pm

Quote:
n the West, Israel is regarded as THE innocent country, just threatened by evil people.

Wrong on the first part; dead on on the second. They are threatenedby evil people. People you support, by the way.

-
I do NOT support Hizbullah or Hamas, and not even President Ahmedinejad, so that I feel totally innocent of that  innocent  angel 

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