CraigW
Topic Author
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:59 am

SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:56 am

Thought I would share this insanity with you. It is shocking to think that the HIV test in some quaters is to see if the woman becomes infected or not, no wonder we have the highest rate of HIV infection in the world. (Article from News24) http://www.women24.com/Women24/Life/...s/Article/0,7173,12-147_10814,00.:

Men always HIV-negative
It's official. Out of an estimated 5.2 million people who are HIV positive in South Africa, none of them are men.


Simply mention, even in passing, HIV to any black brother and you will be met by strong denials – "Hayi, mina I don't have Z3/ bioslim / okumhlophe/ Hlengiwe Ivy Vilakazi and so on."

Men, for some bizarre reason, cannot call the virus by its name. I swear it's as if by the mere mention of it they will simply get infected.

Strangely enough none of them are HIV positive, even though many have never been tested. I was sharing with colleagues how terrified I was when I went for an HIV test when a male colleague proudly announced that he doesn't have that "shandis" (that thing).

All his girlfriends (I didn't bother to ask how many) have healthy babies! "Sho sho mfana," a couple of male colleagues said, congratulating their friend on his HIV negative status. Inexperienced with this method of "testing", I asked them what he meant.

I was schooled that if a guy needs to find out his status the best way is to get a "fresh" girl and impregnate her. If the baby turns out "fine" and the mother is still breathing and shows no signs of weight loss after a couple of months after the baby's birth, then kumoja (it's alright).

This new lease on life gives the guy a stamp of approval to continue gallivanting. Months later another victim would be organised to make sure that he is still "clean" and on the right path. And if the baby turns out to be positive, I asked.

The shocking response was that it can never happen, because if you choose the right girl (meaning she must be a virgin, church going or fat) you can never get it. Apparently, these young women are immune from getting infected.

If by some stroke of bad luck he starts losing his appetite, sweating at night and gets idrop (a sexually transmitted disease), the young girl is to be accused of witchcraft.

Most men can never face up to the fact that they are positive. To be fair, it's not easy for any human being. It's just that men always find someone to blame for the promiscuous behaviour, which leads to this harsh reality.

A family member (depending on who he hates the most), an easy-target neighbour or indeed one of his many girlfriends, will be accused of witchcraft.

Thousands of rands will be spent on so-called sangomas who will do their best to out the evil person who has placed a "speed trap" (a curse called umeqo in Zulu, which the victim has to step over to catch it) on him.

I think I should have called the police to arrest those men. But then again, the police would have to arrest millions of brothers who believe in this method of testing. A woman is never safe, I conclude.

Back in the day we were used as fertility testers by men who were unsure of their childbearing efforts. Now men can joyously test their HIV status. Pathetic!
 
aloges
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:59 am

Blows your mind... it just blows your mind.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
searpqx
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:04 am

The cultural issues as well as government apathy have made an already vicious killer 10x worse in your country. From what I've read and studied, while they've made some progress in gaining acceptance for treatment and increased the availability and affordability of the drugs, the government has done little to nothing to address the mindset you describe. HIV/AIDs is going to continue to take a horrible toll across the continent for a long time to come. Its going to take a huge effort at education and a significant amount of time to change things.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
ajd1992
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:47 am

I've read that South African's can "cure" themselves by raping a virgin - is that true? I read it a while back, so it's sketchy.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:16 am

From what I also read, SA will be about 50/50 black/white within a decade or so if this keeps up. This isn't because the whites are suddenly having huge families, it is because of what CraigW is saying. There are a lot of ex-South Africans here in Portugal (whites) who firmly believe that they will get "their" country back one day. There is even some Nostradamus type guy that said something like this in around 1910, and it wouldn't be just one time I've heard people commenting that his prophecy is coming true.

Edit: Found link on the guy.
The Boer Nostradamus

[Edited 2006-08-30 00:28:33]

[Edited 2006-08-30 00:29:07]
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
Leezyjet
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 3):
I've read that South African's can "cure" themselves by raping a virgin - is that true?

Yes it is. Thats what happens in cultures where religion and centuries old tribal beliefs rule and education is lacking.

The Catholic church, of which many Africans belong to could do more to help stop the spread of the virus by finally admitting that it is acceptable to use condoms when having sex.

In Nigeria, there are adverts all over the place warning of HIV/AIDS so the Government there seem to be taking it seriously, although I'm not sure what the public's opinion is. They are also saying that by being circumcised, this can also help stop the spread of the virus too - I guess that is due to the lack of a foreskin to split and bleed during intercourse thus helping to stop the blood to blood contact.

It is a sad reality when these people are sucked in by tribal elders and the old wives tales that are rife amongst Black Africans.

 Sad
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SpinalTap
Posts: 388
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 5):

The Catholic church, of which many Africans belong to could do more to help stop the spread of the virus by finally admitting that it is acceptable to use condoms when having sex.

If they actually followed the teachings of the Catholic Church (abstinence outside of marriage), there would be no opportunity for HIV/aids to spread. The message of abstinence, although by no means a complete solution (as there will always be some that can't keep it in their pants), has been shown in a Ugandan program to dramatically reduce the infection rate.

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/ED007...47-0E93-4964-9FBA-AA887D42817E.asp
"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
 
aloges
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 6):
there will always be some that can't keep it in their pants

I'm not promiscuous, but what you just wrote sounds like from 100 years ago to me.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
CXA330300
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:48 am

Sad whats going on back home. The government needs to get a move on, the current state of affairs is disgraceful. The economic effects of apartheid still resonates, so most blacks can't afford the medicine, and most of those infected are black. The Constitution and law say that it is the government's responsibility to aid the people, and I can say the government has reneged on its duty.

Vote United Democratic Movement.

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 4):
From what I also read, SA will be about 50/50 black/white within a decade or so if this keeps up. This isn't because the whites are suddenly having huge families, it is because of what CraigW is saying. There are a lot of ex-South Africans here in Portugal (whites) who firmly believe that they will get "their" country back one day. There is even some Nostradamus type guy that said something like this in around 1910, and it wouldn't be just one time I've heard people commenting that his prophecy is coming true.

Actually it will be 50% Black, 25% Coloured/Indian and 25% White at the current rate in 2050. I did projections.

Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 6):
If they actually followed the teachings of the Catholic Church (abstinence outside of marriage), there would be no opportunity for HIV/aids to spread. The message of abstinence, although by no means a complete solution (as there will always be some that can't keep it in their pants), has been shown in a Ugandan program to dramatically reduce the infection rate.

Most South Africans aren't Catholic. Think Protestant, traditional religion, etc.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
LY744
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 6):
If they actually followed the teachings of the Catholic Church (abstinence outside of marriage)...The message of abstinence, although by no means a complete solution (as there will always be some that can't keep it in their pants),

Wouldn't it make a shitload more sense to take advantage of what God obviously gave humans, instead of being a slave to some medival sect gone mad?


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
SpinalTap
Posts: 388
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
I'm not promiscuous, but what you just wrote sounds like from 100 years ago to me.

Wow, how old are you?  Wink You know there are some things that will never change.

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 8):
Most South Africans aren't Catholic. Think Protestant, traditional religion, etc.

Yes, I did look that up (between 6-7% Catholic) but I was commenting on Africa in general as in the other post I quoted.

Quoting LY744 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't it make a shitload more sense to take advantage of what God obviously gave humans, instead of being a slave to some medival sect gone mad?

No, I think discouraging promiscuity will help reduce HIV/Aids infection rates.
"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
 
andz
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:36 pm

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 3):
I've read that South African's can "cure" themselves by raping a virgin - is that true?

Of course it isn't true but it is a belief, the stupid thing is that sometimes a virgin will be gang raped... hello, after the first one she isn't a virgin anymore... just shows how insane this barbaric belief is.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
jcs17
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:55 pm

A famous conservative commentator in the States, William F. Buckley, has a very interesting idea for people with HIV to reduce the infection rate. It sounds cruel and harsh, but you can't deny it wouldn't work. Each person should be required to have a HIV test, those who test positive get a small tattoo somewhere on their body noting that they are HIV positive. A scarlett letter? Absolutely.... and why not? People with HIV should know that they are positive and their potential partners should know that fact too. I'm gonna get blasted for this one, but this could theoretically work very well and reduce AIDS cases drastically.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
SA7700
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 12):
I'm gonna get blasted for this one, but this could theoretically work very well and reduce AIDS cases drastically.

HIV positive people in South Africa are, by the South African constitution, not obliged to reveal their HIV status to anyone.

Even Jacob Zuma (ex-deputy president of the Republic of South Africa) thought it was adequate to take just a shower after he had sex with an HIV+ woman..... Need a say more about the masses if this is the attitude of one of the so-called "leaders" in this country....


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:44 pm

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 12):
I'm gonna get blasted for this one, but this could theoretically work very well and reduce AIDS cases drastically.

Yeah, because using tattoos to identify and isolate a specific segment of the population has historically proven to be very effective. . .

I would never go so far as Buckley, but I do feel very strongly that everyone should know their status, and someone who knowingly infects another is as guilty of a crime as if they'd walked up and shot them in the leg. Trouble is, even getting to the point of wide-spread testing requires education about HIV and a mindset that doesn't stigmatize people with it. Again, those are the two items that are severly lacking in SA's approach to HIV/AIDs prevention and treatment.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
CraigW
Topic Author
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:59 am

RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:45 pm

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 2):
From what I've read and studied, while they've made some progress in gaining acceptance for treatment and increased the availability and affordability of the drugs, the government has done little to nothing to address the mindset you describe

Our esteemed minister of Health, Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, is a total idiot embracing AIDS dissidents and is sold on treating victims with beetroot, garlic and african potato. (336 000 South Africans died of AIDS last year according to the Medical Research Counsel)

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 13):
Even Jacob Zuma (ex-deputy president of the Republic of South Africa) thought it was adequate to take just a shower after he had sex with an HIV+ woman..... Need a say more about the masses if this is the attitude of one of the so-called "leaders" in this country....

Another example mentoned by SA7700 above:

Accused of raping a HIV positive woman, (he was acquited), he admitted in court that he showered after sex in order to prevent himself from becoming infected. He is hero worshipped by a good number of people who take his utterences as gospel and his actions are likely to be mimicked. With this type of leadership, there is long way to go to change behaviour in our society.
 
flyingbabydoc
Posts: 1059
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:12 pm

RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 6):
If they actually followed the teachings of the Catholic Church (abstinence outside of marriage), there would be no opportunity for HIV/aids to spread

Oh, nice one. How about telling priests that before? I have seen quite a few HIV + priests that were smoothly removed from their parishes. And they were not haemophiliac.
Besides, even the catholic church (through the bible) tells the story of one case in Nazareth for 2000+ years where abstinence actually did not even avoid a pregnancy...  Wink  duck 

Quoting LY744 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't it make a shitload more sense to take advantage of what God obviously gave humans, instead of being a slave to some medival sect gone mad?

Could not agree more with you. Teach kids and adults alike to understand and enjoy sex safely, instead of creating fear and ignorance around the theme. Well, maybe the Earth is after all the center of the universe. And abstinence is good.

Quoting CraigW (Reply 15):
With this type of leadership, there is long way to go to change behaviour in our society.

Unfortunately you are correct. I was appalled by CraigW's post, I knew of some horrible stories in SA and Africa in general but that is just mind-boggling. The worst is, these children (HIV +) are basically left without any care and without parents. Very sad indeed.
Marriage is the art of turning a lover into a relative
 
Lucky727
Posts: 559
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RE: SA Men All HIV Neg?

Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 12):
I'm gonna get blasted for this one, but this could theoretically work very well and reduce AIDS cases drastically

Well, it would work REALLY well, until your hobbies ("drinking beer, and chasing skirt" from your profile...) finally led you to your fantasy sex partner, who didn't disclose her status, and by the law of averages (which is 10,000 to one, in an unsafe sexual experience under ideal conditions, so I'm told) left you positive...Then you'd get to choose your own tattoo!! (May I suggest a small swastika, right between the eyes?...seeing as your suggestion was actually used by Hitler's regime to designate certain groups? I would've thought you'd know that, but then again you're only in your early 20s).

Didn't want to disappoint your expectation of getting blasted. Wasn't going to let you get away with that bull, either. Yours was possibly the most disgusting post I've read here in several years. Congratulations.

[Edited 2006-08-30 22:38:35]
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