bravo45
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'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:31 pm

Here are some more details (a real player video):
http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demn...20060901a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=8:56

I was blown away by its origins. Will it get bigger? Will we see more and more of it? Will it help or complicate problems? So Arabic is the problem? Or Arabs? Or just all Muslims?
Now I am really confused. I think the majority of American a.netters voiced their support for JetBlue's actions. Any change of opinion?
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:45 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Thread starter):
So Arabic is the problem? Or Arabs?

Looks as if for many US-Americans, Arabs are the problem, particularily if wearing clothing with Arabic script on it or carrying Arabic-language papers or magazines.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:37 am

Why is the Arabic script much larger than the English beneath it? I don't think Americans are obsessed with Arabs in airports or Arabs on aircraft. The average person probably can't tell that it's Arabic, Hindi, Thai, or Hebrew anyway, although they'd guess it isn't Chinese. An Arab on his own isn't provocative, or white person wearing this may not be seen as provocative, but put the t-shirt on an Arab, and it becomes provocative. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it is right now. In this day and age, airports are not the places to be making statements. This guy was trying to get noticed and was. This probably turned out exactly as he hoped it would. Perhaps he thinks he'll make a few $$$ out it - the fast way to riches in America - sue someone! Do alien residents have the same constitutional rights as citizens? I'm also not sure where in the US constitution is specifically states someone is allowed to wear a t-shirt with Arabic script on it as he stated in the interview. I can't imagine many people realise the origins of this statement go back to Nazi Germany; maybe if he'd been wearing one saying "I Have A Dream" people might have been OK about it.

He knew what was going to happen when he got dressed that day, and JetBlue/TSA should've just ignored him.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 2):
or white person wearing this may not be seen as provocative, but put the t-shirt on an Arab, and it becomes provocative.

does not apply. if you look up in his blogspots you will see that Raed is a "white" in the international sense. So it quite clearly MUST have been the script. But yes, unfortunately, in the present climate in the USA, Arabic script is not in particularily high demand.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Thread starter):
I was blown away by its origins

I don't want to have to install RealPlayer just to watch this clip. Can you briefly summarize what it says? Thanks.
International Homo of Mystery
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 3):
you will see that Raed is a "white" in the international sense

With respect, he doesn't look "white" as in the Anglo Saxon version. He looks (in the video) of Mediterranean/Middle Eastern appearance. Of course at this time of year after a summer at the beach, many Portuguese people would fit the "Arab" look. By comparison when I was in the north of Pakistan in the winter of '05 a lot of people up there who looked "white". Ultimately the "race issue" is a red herring.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 5):
Mediterranean/Middle Eastern appearance.

Good question , true. When in Aswan or Dubai I feel as a "White" but here I don't know at all . It just is that Raed in a way is whiter than me .
 
SlamClick
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:33 am

What is the point of that shirt?
Who distributes it?
Who is being asked to "be silent" in the first place?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
What is the point of that shirt?
Who distributes it?
Who is being asked to "be silent" in the first place?

-
for further details you can get into www.raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com
 
deltagator
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:51 am

From the article...

I asked him "why do you want me to take off my t-shirt? Isn't it my constitutional right to express myself in this way?" The second man in a greenish suit interfered and said "people here in the US don't understand these things about constitutional rights". So I answered him "I live in the US, and I understand it is my right to wear this t-shirt".


One thing the guy doesn't seem to understand is that yes, you can wear the shirt all he wants in public. But the minute you step into a private facility (in this case the airline itself) they can tell you to take it off, change it, or refuse you service. For another example...when I open my BBQ restuarant I'll have a rule against wearing your hat sideways and/or backwards. If you don't like it then you don't have to eat at my place.

I personally have no problem with the shirt, doubt the guy is a terrorist, and have obviously seen much more offensive stuff on 8 year old girls (pants that say Juicy written across the ass) but at the end of the day it is JetBlue's option to tell him he can't wear it on their plane. If he doesn't like their policies or views then he doesn't have to fly them.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
AeroWesty
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 9):
One thing the guy doesn't seem to understand is that yes, you can wear the shirt all he wants in public. But the minute you step into a private facility (in this case the airline itself) they can tell you to take it off, change it, or refuse you service.

Wouldn't that run afoul of the "common carrier" laws?
International Homo of Mystery
 
captaink
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:13 am

But before we can say it was JetBlue's perogative to ask the the guy to remove this T'shirt, we first have to get JetBlue to admit they asked him to take it off in the first place. According to what the reporter said, JetBlue did not admit to asking the guy to remove his shirt.

In that case, would it have been TSA that asked him to do so? Do they have the right to do so?

How is it, that a group of people wearing the same T'shirts were allowed to board?
There is something special about planes....
 
lapa_saab340
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:22 am

"We will not be silent" does have a defying, confrontational tone to it. Who is it addressed to? (and what's the message anyhow)

Not the smartest thing to be wearing at an airport in these days of security paranoia - rights or no rights. I could walk into a bar in Harlem wearing the Confederate flag. I don't think any "rights" will matter in that situation...
 
SlamClick
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 8):

Nothing I could find in that link to answer my questions.
If SOMETHING IN that link explains it could you please direct me a little closer?

For all I know it is Al Qaeda that makes the shirt.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
ACDC8
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 14):
Nothing I could find in that link to answer my questions.
If SOMETHING IN that link explains it could you please direct me a little closer?

For all I know it is Al Qaeda that makes the shirt.

it just says "we will not be silent". I got this t-shirt from Washington DC. There are more than a 1000 t-shirts printed with the same slogan, you can google them or email them at wewillnotbesilent@gmail.com . It is printed in many other languages: Arabic, Farsi, Spanish, English, etc

That was a quote of ME AVN FANS link.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06191/704736-85.stm
http://www.parkerstudio.com/AAW/notsilentstories.html

[Edited 2006-09-02 20:42:25]
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
SlamClick
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 15):

Thank you.

So it is just pointless confrontation, since no one is asking anyone to be silent.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
bravo45
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 3):
in the present climate in the USA, Arabic script is not in particularily high demand.

Sad but true, especially when on an airport.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
I don't want to have to install RealPlayer just to watch this clip. Can you briefly summarize what it says? Thanks.

It was started originally in Germany to oppose the policies of Adolph Hitler and if I understood it right the people who started this wave are not Muslims nor Arabs, they just translated it to Arabic and English (to start a movement?) and since the demand has gone up, its also been translated to Spanish and Farsi among other languages besides German.

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 5):
With respect, he doesn't look "white" as in the Anglo Saxon version. He looks (in the video) of Mediterranean/Middle Eastern appearance. Of course at this time of year after a summer at the beach, many Portuguese people would fit the "Arab" look. By comparison when I was in the north of Pakistan in the winter of '05 a lot of people up there who looked "white". Ultimately the "race issue" is a red herring.

Well you answered the beginning of your post yourself. I don't think you can tell much just by looking at a person. Not even race, and this should not be turned into a race issue. Now is it a language issue? What if you see Arabs (or lets say Arab looking people) wearing this shirt only in English? I think it will still be conceived as provocative. Now I understand when you do such a thing at an airport its understandable for any one that you are attracting attention. But the fact that thousands of Arabs and Muslims (more than I have ever heard of) are being singled out for 'special treatment' every day at US airports, begs the question where do you draw the line? What's wrong?
I fear the answer is, one's in trouble if one looks like (what is concieved to be) Arab/Muslims looking with an uncommon name. No matter who you are. You will not believe how many Sikhs have been the targets only because not only they fit the profile, but traditionally wear turbans and have long beards.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
Who is being asked to "be silent" in the first place?

Any person who wears that shirt??

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 16):
since no one is asking anyone to be silent.

What does making him change it amout to?

I don't know what to think, no one is ready to even admit they made him hid the statement. Is that a clue for their guilt? Will it end in another sorry letter? But then all the media attention it has recieved, trust me to be sure to find thousands more doing this. What will happen then?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 17):
It was started originally in Germany to oppose the policies of Adolph Hitler

Wait, wait ... in the 1930's people in Germany walked around in public with tshirts opposing Hitler?
International Homo of Mystery
 
SlamClick
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 17):
What does making him change it amout to?

Circular logic: If I can design a shirt with a "free speech" motif, and make it arguably unacceptable to wear past an airport security checkpoint, they will challenge my right to wear it, thus abridging my freedom of speech.

Also could be called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But do you even get this? That shirt exists 24 hours a day. It has been produced in, apparently large numbers. Presumably many people are wearing this shirt at this very moment. Now who is asking them to be silent? I read that it is available in English only. Can a prosperous white male, AngloSaxon Protestant wear it and get your sympathy?

"Help! Help! I'm being ignored and I want to appear oppressed!"
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gunsontheroof
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
What is the point of that shirt?
Who distributes it?
Who is being asked to "be silent" in the first place?

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/01/1338241
 
SlamClick
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:33 am

Okay but that was written AFTER the guy tried to board an airplane with it.

What about BEFORE?

Does ANYONE know who is behind these shirts?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
cedars747
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:33 am

Here in Norway Tattoos in Arabic letters are on fashion.
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
itsjustme
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:18 am

A couple of things seem to have changed between the time Mr. Jarrar posted the account of what occurred in his blog (August 10th) and the time he gave the interview to Democracy Now! (Sept 1). One of which being, in his blog he stated "At around 8:30, two men approached me while I was checking my phone". Yet, in the interview with Democracy Now he says "I was prevented to go to my airplane by four officers...". So, between Aug 10th and Sept. 1st, the number of officials that stopped him doubled. Makes one wonder what else about the incident has been embellished.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:44 am

Well, in the whole scheme of things, I would be less worried about a Middle Eastern man wearing a shirt with Arabic, Persian or any other regional language on it, as opposed to 12 men acting strangely with a cell phone on a crowded flight to India. I don't think a terrorist would be wearing a tshirt, drawing attention to himself. I think B6 Is within it's rights to deny baording to whom it feels could be a disturbance on the aircraft

Quoting Bravo45 (Thread starter):
So Arabic is the problem? Or Arabs? Or just all Muslims?
Now I am really confused. I think the majority of American a.netters voiced their support for JetBlue's actions. Any change of opinion?

I just think it's the recent incident in London that has people on edge right now and I thik Mr Jarrar, while it's his right to wear a shirt like that in public, has made poor choice timing to make a statement. While I don't find a shirt with Arabic writing on it offensive, I can nderstand why it might raise eyebrows and make people uncomfortable

Quoting LAPA_SAAB340 (Reply 13):
"We will not be silent" does have a defying, confrontational tone to it. Who is it addressed to? (and what's the message anyhow)

Well, I don't think it's confrontational, he's just making a fsahionable political statement. But his choosing was a bad one. I think Dougloids quote below sums it up

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
For a guy who is so insistent on his rights I'd suggest he present himself at a ticket counter anywhere in the middle east with a tee shirt that says "I am a Jew and proud of it" and see how far he gets-he'd be in a fucking Yemeni prison so fast it'd make your head spin.

If he wants to compare civil rights of the US with other countries, he should be thankful that the worst that happened was, he was asked to remove it.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 9):
I personally have no problem with the shirt, doubt the guy is a terrorist, and have obviously seen much more offensive stuff on 8 year old girls (pants that say Juicy written across the ass) but at the end of the day it is JetBlue's option to tell him he can't wear it on their plane. If he doesn't like their policies or views then he doesn't have to fly them.

Well,a few years ago while duing the boarding process on flight. I was closing overheads and helping passngers stow their bags, when I noticed a girl who couldn't have been older than 10 years of age, who was 1. wearing a revealing tank-top that had PORN STAR written across the front in pink and black, and 2.(not that I was staring), was wearing these low-rise jeans on with a thong blatantly showing. I was compelled to seek out her parents and have change into something more appropriate. Well all hell broke lose over this and we had to get security to remove them and deny them boarding. The incident involving the girl with the "Fuck George Bush" T shirt that got a beligerant girl tossed off of a WN flight out of Reno a year or so ago is another example. There is certain attire that that is not acceptable on board an aircraft, and whether it's political, or lewd/offensive or disrespectful, there is no place for creating discontent on an aircraft. I think that flying public needs to be a little more cognicent of what they're wearing when traveling. If it was up to me, I would require a comfortable, but desirable dress code. What people are wearing nowadays is just unsightly
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rjpieces
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:22 pm

I still maintain that he got what he deserved. Any passenger flying out of JFK that day with common sense would be suspicious of the man wearing that shirt. It's human nature these days (for better or worse). ANYONE who says that they would not look suspiciously at such a passenger on some level is lying IMO.
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itsjustme
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 25):
ANYONE who says that they would not look suspiciously at such a passenger on some level is lying IMO.

Profiling, even though it's a way of every day life for everyone from John Q Public to the most seasoned cop, isn't considered politically correct and, therefore, it isn't done.  sarcastic 
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:20 pm

[Quote]Well,a few years ago while duing the boarding process on flight. I was closing overheads and helping passngers stow their bags, when I noticed a girl who couldn't have been older than 10 years of age, who was 1. wearing a revealing tank-top that had PORN STAR written across the front in pink and black, and 2.(not that I was staring), was wearing these low-rise jeans on with a thong blatantly showing. I was compelled to seek out her parents and have change into something more appropriate.[/Quote/

WOW! That is terrible. I cant stand girls of age dressing like that.

Anyway, I was at MCO the other day sitting in front of the Hyatt Regency inside on my laptop. I accidentally played the Muslim call to prayer and I had a bunch of weird looks. Honestly, If I looked at that dudes shirt real quick, I probably wouldnt even notice it was written in Arabic.

-Delta767300ER
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:23 pm

Its the Times We live in.
 Smile
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N1120A
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:11 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
Wouldn't that run afoul of the "common carrier" laws?

Yep

Quoting Captaink (Reply 12):
In that case, would it have been TSA that asked him to do so? Do they have the right to do so?

No they do not

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 25):
Any passenger flying out of JFK that day with common sense would be suspicious of the man wearing that shirt.

In that case, I suppose if I go somewhere and see Hebrew writing, common sense should tell me that I should be suspicious that the person is a JDF terrorist getting ready to blow the place up?  sarcastic 
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:27 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 13):
For all I know it is Al Qaeda that makes the shirt.

it is NOT elQaeda

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 24):
Any passenger flying out of JFK that day with common sense would be suspicious of the man wearing that shirt.

again, why ? I mean, everybody is allowed to send curious glances at people with "strange" scripts on clothing or baggage or whatever. But JFK is an airport where there are daily departures of many Arab airlines, where ticket-documents are in both languages also. And a good part of their passengers are Arabs who carry with them documents, notes and books in Arabic. No, the whole thing about his t-shirt is just the result of some hysteria in the USA.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 24):
look suspiciously

here some most suspicious script photographed by some people at JFK :

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Maik Mönkemeier



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Josh Akbar



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Brian Futterman


That most be the cause of serious heart-conditions for some people around in NYC !  laughing  sarcastic  scratchchin  wave  wink  yes 
 
deltagator
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:45 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
Wouldn't that run afoul of the "common carrier" laws?

Yep

Can you 'splain that one a little bit for me. JetBlue is a private company. Why couldn't they tell someone basically "no shirt, no shoes...no service"?
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
B747-437B
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:52 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 31):
JetBlue is a private company. Why couldn't they tell someone basically "no shirt, no shoes...no service"?

By virtue of their licensing as a "common carrier" (which grants them certain priviledges in the transportation industry - notably the ability to offer their services on sale to the general public), they are obliged to comply with specific laws and statutes regarding discriminatory behaviour.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
cedars747
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:56 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
That most be the cause of serious heart-conditions for some people around in NYC !

Haha,nice one  Big grin
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
AeroWesty
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:56 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 31):
JetBlue is a private company. Why couldn't they tell someone basically "no shirt, no shoes...no service"?

"Common carrier" refers to sets of laws for public carriage of passengers and freight. Once a service is defined as a common carrier, and eligible for the rights that conveys, it is also granted protections from some liabilities, however they must also adhere to various performance duties. For instance, if passengers present themselves and are ready to pay for their transportation, a common carrier has no more right to refuse a passenger, if they have sufficient room and accommodation, than an innkeeper has to refuse a guest.

If jetBlue acts in a manner not with keeping with a common carrier, they could stand to lose substantial rights granted to them under the laws.
International Homo of Mystery
 
lesmainwaring
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:12 pm

while wearing the shirt may be questionable in some aspects due to the times we live in, it contains nothing profane, sexually explicit, or overtly provacative.

i am hoping that the TSA and others are doing their job sniffing for explosive devices and ingredients to make such, screening for weapons, and the like to protect the flying public and not just looking at the color of people's skin and the clothing they wear.

we are suppose to be in this conflict to protect democratic values, one of the top being freedom of speech.
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jetjack74
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting LesMainwaring (Reply 35):
while wearing the shirt may be questionable in some aspects due to the times we live in, it contains nothing profane, sexually explicit, or overtly provacative.

Well, you have to consider the fact that few people know the meaning behind it. "We will not be silent", ok who and what won't they be silent about? You see that walking down the street, and wouldn't think anything of, but you see that while walking around in an airport lobby. That will garnish some unwanted(I would suspect) attention, or maybe he got the reaction he was looking for. Is it wrong to suggest that he may have intentionally put himself in the positon in order to garner some unfriendly reaction? Who knows? Like I said, he has a right to wear the shirt, but I think the place he chose to wear it was the wrong time and place if he wanted to be left alone.
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SlamClick
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 29):
it is NOT elQaeda

Prove it!

No one seems to know anything about where the money goes when you buy one of these. It could profit Israel or Disney Corp. or Hezbollah.

Is it not possible to trace this? The less information there is on the organization behind them the more likely that it is bad guys. Funny if it turned out to be the IRA.
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 23):
that got a beligerant girl tossed off of a WN flight out of Reno a year or so ago is another example. There is certain attire that that is not acceptable on board an aircraft, and whether it's political, or lewd/offensive or disrespectful, there is no place for creating discontent on an aircraft.

This is all understandable and very reasonable. However two important things.

Supposedly:

1. A group of people wearing the same shirt was allowed to board a JetBlue flight. Gives a sligt twist to the situation.

2. JetBlue says they did not ask the man to take off his shirt. Another twist.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:51 pm

I'm a bit tired of protests against racial profiling. Let's address the much more severe problem of terrorism before trying to attack the means of preventing it.

No one likes being inconvenienced by security checks. You don't have to tell that to the millions of air travelers all of whose lives are disrupted by toughened security measures in the wake of 9/11 and the recent discovery of a plot to destroy airliners using liquid explosives.

Everyone is burdened by circumstances beyond their control. It's time for those who think that they are unfairly burdened to place the blame on the shoulders of those who deserve it: Those who carried out the attacks on 9/11, and even to this day engage in criminal activity against the West.

If those who are aggrieved by profiling will not be silent, then neither will those who are aggrieved by terrorism. Personal grievances, unfortunately, do not trump the need to protect the lives of innocent civilians in the most efficient, most effective way possible. If you love this country, you will bear the inconvenience for the sake of the greater good. After all, this is what we all do. If you question your need to do what others do in sacrifice, how can you question others when they themselves question you?

"We will not be silent"? Agreed; and neither will the majority of the rest of us. And where, exactly, does that leave any of us?

[Edited 2006-09-03 16:56:28]
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:46 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
In that case, I suppose if I go somewhere and see Hebrew writing, common sense should tell me that I should be suspicious that the person is a JDF terrorist getting ready to blow the place up?

Except that there are what, about the same number of JDF terrorists as there are Christian terrorists in this country? And both have been minimally active....But do I even need to list the number of succesful (and attempted) Muslim terrorist attacks against the West, the most recent being within the past month! Not to mention that they usually involve airplanes...And you don't see a lot of Jews and Christians blowing up airplanes...
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 39):
I'm a bit tired of protests against racial profiling. Let's address the much more severe problem of terrorism before trying to attack the means of preventing it.

What do you propose those who believe they have a legitimate gripe in regards to profiling do? Don't they have the right to protest against it at all?

Now before anyone gets the wrong impression, recall that I've posted previously that I understand how profiling in many situations work, and I don't have any problem with the basic premise, except when it is used abusively.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 39):
It's time for those who think that they are unfairly burdened to place the blame on the shoulders of those who deserve it: Those who carried out the attacks on 9/11

 confused  So if someone feels unfairly abused as a result of profiling they address whom specifically?
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 41):
What do you propose those who believe they have a legitimate gripe in regards to profiling do? Don't they have the right to protest against it at all?

Oh, yes, they do. But so what? Others have a right to be irritated by their actions.

Not all protests are legitimate, as you will agree. And protests that have value in some contexts, have no value in others.

For example, it would be wrong for someone to wear a T-shirt in court protesting that a defendant was innocent. It would be contrary to the traditions and decorum of the court. By the same token, it would be wrong to incite anger concerning specific profiling issues in specific settings where nothing -- absolutely nothing -- can be done about it.

What, really, does wearing a protest T-shirt accomplish on an airliner? You will gain attention, but 90% or more of those who look at you, will look at you as a troublemaker.

So, what, exactly, is the point?

No one is suppressing protest, here. But there is a time and place for everything, and when it comes to protest T-shirts about ethinic profiling, airports should not be deemed the appropriate place.

Go find some public square somewhere. Wear it at the mall. Wear it in good health. But not at an airport. Not in this day and age.
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 42):
Others have a right to be irritated by their actions.

Never said they didn't. People usually are irritated to some degree by a protest.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 42):
when it comes to protest T-shirts about ethinic profiling, airports should not be deemed the appropriate place.

If that's where it's occurring, I don't see why the airport isn't the appropriate place to protest. Pilots and cabin crew protest about their contracts at airports. Should they go to a park or a mall so as to not scare passengers, too?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 41):
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 39):It's time for those who think that they are unfairly burdened to place the blame on the shoulders of those who deserve it: Those who carried out the attacks on 9/11
  
So if someone feels unfairly abused as a result of profiling they address whom specifically?

Did you forget about my question here?
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 37):
t is NOT elQaeda

Prove it!

No one seems to know anything about where the money goes when you buy one of these. It could profit Israel or Disney Corp. or Hezbollah.

Is it not possible to trace this? The less information there is on the organization behind them the more likely that it is bad guys. Funny if it turned out to be the IRA.

-
I admittedly canNOT prove it. But first of all it is YOU who placed an allegation so that it is up to you to prove your allegation. I just placed a plea for the defence and do not bear the burden to proof my denial. Second, elQaeda is NOT a major textile producer, while the Jews have a good (and POSTIVE) tradition in that. So that I suppose it is rather the Mossad than elQaeda. Prove that it is NOT the Mossad !
 
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:51 am

This is hilarious! banghead 

People should get a grip - it's a t-shirt, not a grenade.

Basically, a bunch of fat, white folks got "nervous" when an "Arabic" looking man gets on the plane. He's wearing a t-shirt with an inscription that they can't read and they freak out.

Pathetic.
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 43):
If that's where it's occurring, I don't see why the airport isn't the appropriate place to protest. Pilots and cabin crew protest about their contracts at airports. Should they go to a park or a mall so as to not scare passengers, too?

Pilots and cabin crew aren't the issue here. You're talking about labor issues. But 9/11 wasn't caused by labor -- or management.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 43):
Did you forget about my question here?

Your question was answered. They should go to a public square.
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 46):
Pilots and cabin crew aren't the issue here. You're talking about labor issues.

We're talking protests. Perhaps you should look into some of the issues airline staff have brought up with passengers during protests/CHAOS movements at airports.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 46):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 43):Did you forget about my question here?

Your question was answered. They should go to a public square.

Nope, it was totally avoided. Your original statement was:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 39):
It's time for those who think that they are unfairly burdened to place the blame on the shoulders of those who deserve it: Those who carried out the attacks on 9/11

Again my question, if someone feels that as a result of this they have been profiled in an abusive manner, to whom do they complain?
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 47):
We're talking protests. Perhaps you should look into some of the issues airline staff have brought up with passengers during protests/CHAOS movements at airports.



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 47):
Again my question, if someone feels that as a result of this they have been profiled in an abusive manner, to whom do they complain?

If your question is how they should protest against terrorists, then, yeah, you've got me there. Terrorists aren't exactly known to be easily accessible for redress of grievances.

That's not our problem.
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RE: 'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II

Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 48):
If your question is how they should protest against terrorists, then, yeah, you've got me there. Terrorists aren't exactly known to be easily accessible for redress of grievances.

If I read this right, you're saying the people doing profiling at the airport are terrorists.

Please correct me if I read that wrong.
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