Falcon84
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Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:56 pm

Jim Webb is running as a Democrat for the Senate in Virginia. He was once a Republican who served Ronald Reagan, and whom Reagan thought highly of.

Webb is putting out an ad where the footage of Reagan praising his service to the country as a decorated Marine.

http://news.aol.com/elections/story/...05809990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

But Nancy Reagan doesn't think he should use it. It says nothing false; it isn't derrogatory in any way, and it doesn't critisize Mr. Reagan.

I guess the reason is that he's a Democrat now, and she, and other Reagan staffers don't think it's appropriate.

Well, Nancy, Ed Meese, et al: too bad. I guess in your minds serivce to the country is only valid when one is a Republican, not a Democrat.

I think he's perfectly within his right to run the ad, as it says something that is not made up. Just more GOP whining in a race they're afraid they might lose.
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dl021
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:58 am

My real problem here is that we don't know what President Reagan would say about the candidate now. People change over 20 years, and Webb is no different, so his use of President Reagans image and past words should at least be tempered with a caveat that makes concedes the age of the past accolades and that no one knows what President Reagan would do today.

He's not around to voice his opinion, so while people should be able to use past interaction to show what the situation was 20 years ago, they should be honest about today.

James Webb was a Marine and a vocal SecNav who resigned rather than accept the congressionally mandated reduction in naval force (he was a proponent of the 600 ship navy that President Reagan got pushed through in the early 80s) who became disenchanted with the Republicans and thinks that he'll fare better as a Democrat primarily, I think, because he has the view that religious fundamentalists on the far right have too much power and that the government should play a larger role in the lives of Americans to spread "fairness".

I respect his accomplishments and writing ability, but I disagree with him on many issues. I'd vote for Allen in that race, even if Allen did not know that macaque was a word for monkey. He's got more experience and gets things done.
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We're Nuts
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
My real problem here is that we don't know what President Reagan would say about the candidate now.

I'm sure the staffer who wrote Reagan's original thoughts 20 years ago is still alive. Let's ask him what the former president thinks.
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halls120
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Well, Nancy, Ed Meese, et al: too bad. I guess in your minds serivce to the country is only valid when one is a Republican, not a Democrat.

Falcon, you're overdoing it with this feigned outrage. It's perfectly understandable. Reagan endorsed Webb when Webb was a republican. Do you really think if he were alive he'd be endorsing Webb as a democrat?

Look at what's happened to Joe Lieberman. Now that he's running as an independent, most of the democratic establishment are treating him as if he were a leper.

Is Lieberman's service to the country only valuable if he remains a democrat?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Falcon84
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
My real problem here is that we don't know what President Reagan would say about the candidate now.

Well, c'est le vie, Ian. He's not around, and his words ARE public record. In this man's place, I'd do the same thing. It could well be an effective commercial in a state that does lean Repubican a lot of times.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Falcon, you're overdoing it with this feigned outrage.

No outrage intended, Halls. It's just too bad. It is public record, and I know Nancy cannot stand Democrats, but that's just the way it is. Her husband obviously admired the man's service to the nation, so I don't see what the problem is. In fact there is none, except GOP crying.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
It's perfectly understandable.

It is only in the context of a person who just doesn't like Democrats. Remember, Nancy didn't want the two former Democratic presidents speaking at her husband's funeral, Nevermind that they're as American as her husband was or as she is.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Is Lieberman's service to the country only valuable if he remains a democrat?

Not at all. The Dems are just as wrong in that instance as Nancy is in this one. To me, it's just old-fashioned political sour grapes.
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halls120
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):It's perfectly understandable.
It is only in the context of a person who just doesn't like Democrats.

Are you accusing me of not liking democrats? Funny, because I vote for them almost as frequently as I vote for republicans.

Partisan political posturing is bad no matter which was it is directed. You seem to be only against it when it is being directed at democrats.....
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
L-188
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
But Nancy Reagan doesn't think he should use it. It says nothing false; it isn't derrogatory in any way, and it doesn't critisize Mr. Reagan.

I guess the reason is that he's a Democrat now, and she, and other Reagan staffers don't think it's appropriate.

I think you guess wrong.

I think that she like many other widows is now very protective of her husbands memory and her perception of it. And that is why she doesn't want his image used.

I haven't researched for specific examples, but I think I remember hearing that there have been several groups that have asked to use Ronnies images for various projects that likewise have been turned down my Nancy.
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Falcon84
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
Are you accusing me of not liking democrats?

No, no! Not you, Halls. Maybe it wasn't clear enough. Nancy Reagan doesn't like Democrats. I wasn't referring to you.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
I think that she like many other widows is now very protective of her husbands memory and her perception of it. And that is why she doesn't want his image used.

Why does she care, though? The man seems to be honorable, was trusted enough to be in Reagan's government, and obviously served his country well as a Marine. The only thing I can deduce is the problem is his party affilliation.
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767Lover
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:12 am

Hmmm. I can understand Nancy Reagan's position. First, the video soundbites are all about context. Take them out of the larger context and they might not represent President Reagan's original comments.

Secondly, it really isn't appropriate to "use" the "endorsement" of a dead person. Reagan didn't endorse the guy as a senator, he endorsed him as a serviceman.

I really can't stand Nancy Reagan but can appreciate her sentiments and protection of her deceased husband.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:22 am

Dear moderators: No.
 
halls120
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):

 Smile

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
The only thing I can deduce is the problem is his party affilliation.

You are correct that Webb has served his country well and honorably. But the fact is, people who switch parties are generally looked upon with suspicion. I know several die hard democrats here in VA who didn't vote for him in the primary, and may not even cast a vote in this particular race as a result.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
Secondly, it really isn't appropriate to "use" the "endorsement" of a dead person. Reagan didn't endorse the guy as a senator, he endorsed him as a serviceman.

AND as a republican.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
L-188
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Why does she care, though?

About the guy running the adds-Probably nothing.

But I don't think it can be argued that she didn't care deeply about Ronnie.

So it goes to reason that anything that she precieves to be even slightly negative to his memory she would be hostile to.
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Falcon84
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
AND as a republican.

From what I've read, it had to do with his service in the Marines, not as a Republican, so it is not out of context at all.
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767Lover
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run A

Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
From what I've read, it had to do with his service in the Marines, not as a Republican, so it is not out of context at all.

I beg to differ. The statement below...

....James' gallantry as a Marine in Vietnam won him the Navy Cross and other decorations," Reagan says on the video...

does not mean Reagan would necessarily endorse the guy as a good senator.

If a good friend of mine were trying to become a nun, and I at one time 20 years ago said she was excellent with kids, it doesn't mean I think she would make a good nun.
 
dl021
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 2):
I'm sure the staffer who wrote Reagan's original thoughts 20 years ago is still alive. Let's ask him what the former president thinks.

I don't think any staffer can tell us what President Reagan would say today.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Look at what's happened to Joe Lieberman. Now that he's running as an independent, most of the democratic establishment are treating him as if he were a leper.

There does appear to be a parallel here.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
Well, c'est le vie, Ian. He's not around, and his words ARE public record. In this man's place, I'd do the same thing. It could well be an effective commercial in a state that does lean Repubican a lot of times.

Yeah, c'est la vie, but that doesn't change what bothers me about this. As long as he's simply using the words to show praise given him by someone he respects now, then fine. But if he's insinuating that President Reagan endorsed him for candidacy when he was actually praising a member of his cabinet for a defined job then that's two different things.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Nancy Reagan doesn't like Democrats.

I don't think that's the case. I believe she is pretty moderate personally and simply acts here in the fierce defence of her husband for which she is famous.
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Superfly
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 2):
I'm sure the staffer who wrote Reagan's original thoughts 20 years ago is still alive.

 checkmark 

Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
I don't think any staffer can tell us what President Reagan would say today.

I think you meant, no staffer can tell what Ronald Reagan to say today.
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CastleIsland
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 3):
Reagan endorsed Webb when Webb was a republican. Do you really think if he were alive he'd be endorsing Webb as a democrat?

According to the article, Reagan was not "endorsing Webb," he was praising him.

Webb's first ad, featuring praise from President Reagan, whom Webb served as Navy secretary

Whether Reagan would be endorsing Webb now, which I doubt, because politics is about party affiliation rather than results, is irrelevant. The praise of Webb's actions must still be relevant, as the actions he performed back then are still valid - they occurred.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
My real problem here is that we don't know what President Reagan would say about the candidate now.

True, but again, if Webb's actions as Navy Secretary then, and nothing has occurred to bring question upon those actions, then they are still worthy of the exact same praise, whether he switched parties or not.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:20 am

CastleIsland:
Only Republicans can take credit for military service. Just ask Max Cleland.  

[Edited 2006-09-11 22:20:47]
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bushpilot
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:26 am

I think it is a combination of partisan politics and Nancy trying to keep a percieved exploitation of her husbands memory to further another candidate. But what bothers me most is the whole party line, it is time for some serious reform in DC. The citizens of a respective district elect this Rep. or Senator, but they are often pushed around in partisan politics. Because ultimately DC is all about following the party line. Fall out of step and campaign finanaces dry up quick, influence drops off. The 2 main political parties in this country hold more power and influence than any other single entity. That is a scary thing to me.
 
L-188
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
Only Republicans can take credit for military service

Really, I could have sworn Kennedy ran on his PT-109 record.
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Superfly
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
Really, I could have sworn Kennedy ran on his PT-109 record.

9/11 changed everythang!  dopey 
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halls120
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 16):
According to the article, Reagan was not "endorsing Webb," he was praising him.

Tell us - what is the difference between "praise" and "endorsement"?

I would submit that Webb wouldn't be running the ad that features "praise" if he didn't think it would amount to an "endorsement."
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AirCop
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:38 am

I submit that this is just plain weird. Why would one want ëndorsement"/praise from someone whom isn't even living? Can't imagine that President Reagan can deliver many votes for Webb, especially since VA is not Chicago.
 
Superfly
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:40 am

CastleIsland has a point. A praise doesn't automatically equal endorsement.
I remember when Nebraska Senator Bob Kerry ran for President in 1992, he had images of President Nixon honoring him for his service during Vietnam.
When you are running for the Democratic Party nomination, the last thing you want is an 'endorsement' from Richard Nixon.
Nixon was still alive and active in 1992 and Nixon did not protest the ad.
Having praise for military service from a sitting President means a lot regardless of political party.

Nancy just needs to STFU.
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halls120
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
CastleIsland has a point. A praise doesn't automatically equal endorsement.

BS. That is EXACTLY what Webb is using the ad to suggest.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Superfly
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
BS. That is EXACTLY what Webb is using the ad to suggest.

Then so be it!
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Gilligan
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
It is only in the context of a person who just doesn't like Democrats. Remember, Nancy didn't want the two former Democratic presidents speaking at her husband's funeral, Nevermind that they're as American as her husband was or as she is.



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
The only thing I can deduce is the problem is his party affilliation.



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
But the fact is, people who switch parties are generally looked upon with suspicion.

Perhaps we should take a minute to remember that Reagan himself changed parties. He was orginally a democrat.

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 2):
I'm sure the staffer who wrote Reagan's original thoughts 20 years ago is still alive. Let's ask him what the former president thinks.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
I don't think any staffer can tell us what President Reagan would say today.

I think you meant, no staffer can tell what Ronald Reagan to say today.

Those are some low blows guys.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
9/11 changed everythang!

I thought "It's the economy stupid" changed everything.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
I haven't researched for specific examples, but I think I remember hearing that there have been several groups that have asked to use Ronnies images for various projects that likewise have been turned down my Nancy.

You are absolutely correct.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 8):
I really can't stand Nancy Reagan but can appreciate her sentiments and protection of her deceased husband.

 checkmark 
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Falcon84
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:26 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 26):
Perhaps we should take a minute to remember that Reagan himself changed parties. He was orginally a democrat.

Interesting point. I had forgotten that, Gilligan.
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halls120
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 26):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):But the fact is, people who switch parties are generally looked upon with suspicion.
Perhaps we should take a minute to remember that Reagan himself changed parties. He was orginally a democrat.

Yes, he was. But it was a long time between the time he was a registered democrat and ran for governor.

Webb hasn't been a democrat all that long.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
L-188
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 27):
Interesting point. I had forgotten that, Gilligan.

Yup he was a democrat, being the president of the screen actors guild cured him of that.
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Superfly
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:30 pm

As much as I dispise Ronald Reagan, I don't remember him being a petty knit-picking kind of person. That is exactly what Nancy is being.
Ronald Reagan stayed far away as possible from Oliver North when he decided to run for Senator of Virginia back in 1994. I don't recall Reagan beging for Oliver North to stop his association with Reagan in his ads.
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767Lover
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:19 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
As much as I dispise Ronald Reagan, I don't remember him being a petty knit-picking javascript:;kind of person. That is exactly what Nancy is being.

I don't think this is petty at all.

What if something terrible is revealed about this guy later, or he does a shitty job? That would cause a lot of embarrassement to the Reagan family. "Ronald Reagan endorsed a ______."

Face it, you are just pissed because the candidate is a Democrat.

Besides, knowing how much you hate Republicans, why would you want a Democrat showing alignment with a Republican's opinion anyway?
 
Gilligan
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
As much as I dispise Ronald Reagan, I don't remember him being a petty knit-picking kind of person. That is exactly what Nancy is being.

That's pretty disingenuous. I'm sure if a.net had been around back then you would have been all over him for not supporting more govt. r+d into aids vaccines and drugs among countless other things.

I wonder if it's too late for Cynthia McKinney to change residency and run?

She is his widow, she has a right to decide how his name and image are used. She has told other people to stop and that includes republicans so she is not being "knit-picking".
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We're Nuts
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 26):
Perhaps we should take a minute to remember that Reagan himself changed parties. He was orginally a democrat.

So was Imperial Wizard Thurmond. That didn't make him any less retarded.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Gilligan
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 33):
So was Imperial Wizard Thurmond.

But Byrd decided to stay at home...how about that. BTW how many Presidents have there been versus U.S. Senators? This guy is shooting for the Senate, not an appointment to one of the military academies. It's a different level of recommendation.
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767Lover
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:06 am

I think the bigger question we should be asking is why does this guy have to rely so much on a dead president's endorsement? Can he not find anyone still alive to provide "good" quotes about him?
 
halls120
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 35):
I think the bigger question we should be asking is why does this guy have to rely so much on a dead president's endorsement? Can he not find anyone still alive to provide "good" quotes about him?

Excellent point. It is actually a risky strategy for Webb. There are a fair amount of democrats grumbling about not having a "real" democrat on the ticket, and now he's actively championing a republican endorsement. A dead one, at that.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
As much as I dispise Ronald Reagan, I don't remember him being a petty knit-picking kind of person.

And he wouldn't have endorsed Webb running as a democrat, so what's your point?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
Tell us - what is the difference between "praise" and "endorsement"?

Praise = getting high recognition for a job well done.

Endorsement = this person would go a great job as ______.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):
I would submit that Webb wouldn't be running the ad that features "praise" if he didn't think it would amount to an "endorsement."

Only because the average voter is so easily hood-winked into drawing that conclusion.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
BS. That is EXACTLY what Webb is using the ad to suggest.

Is it stated in the ad as an endorsement? If not, see my comment immediately above. If there is anything even slightly under-handed about this, then in the realm of typically dirty political advertising, it hardly warrants a blip on the radar.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
halls120
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 37):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 21):Tell us - what is the difference between "praise" and "endorsement"?

Praise = getting high recognition for a job well done.

Endorsement = this person would go a great job as ______.

But in this case, since Reagan is dead, my guess is that Webb is hoping people will consider the first to be the second......
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Superfly
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 31):
Face it, you are just pissed because

What?!?!
I am not "pissed' at all. The only one who is "pissed" is Nancy Reagan.

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 32):
I'm sure if a.net had been around back then you would have been all over him for not supporting more govt. r+d into aids vaccines and drugs among countless other things.

I wonder if it's too late for Cynthia McKinney to change residency and run?

Can we please stay on topic?  Smile

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 37):
Praise = getting high recognition for a job well done.

Endorsement = this person would go a great job as ______.

 checkmark 
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We're Nuts
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RE: Nancy Reagan Ask Senate Candidate Not To Run An Ad

Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 38):
my guess is that Webb is hoping people will consider the first to be the second......

Are you new to politics or something?
Dear moderators: No.

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