tbar220
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The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:42 am



And for those "Old news, get a life, blah blah blah" people...

Until those responsible are held accountable, this is important. As long as our soldiers in Iraq are dying, this is important. As long as the real war on terror is ignored and Osama Bin Laden is free, this is important.
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halls120
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:56 am

Somehow, using "best" and "war" in the same sentence is simply absurd.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AirCop
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 1):
Somehow, using "best" and "war" in the same sentence is simply absurd.

Especially for anyone that has ever served their country in one of the military services. Suggested reading: this weeks Sports Illustrated article on Pat Tillman journey from 9/11 to this death in Afghanistan.
 
L-188
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:58 pm

The best war was between Camp NorthStar and Camp Mohawk......



Are you ready for Summer?

[Edited 2006-09-11 06:02:24]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:24 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
As long as our soldiers in Iraq are dying

Can I just say something about the quote above...

If you truly care about preventing the death of soldiers... why don't you help get more soldiers to take motorcycle safety courses?

You know... considering how we lose more soldiers per year in vehicle crashes, than all yearly combat deaths (all theaters combined).

It's just a little pet peeve... if people are worried about me and my buddies, well why aren't you trying to eliminate the number one cause of death? Please tell me it has nothing to do with the fact that motorcycle accidents are not useful in political arguments and agendas. This goes for both Reps and Dems.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
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Coal
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
If you truly care about preventing the death of soldiers... why don't you help get more soldiers to take motorcycle safety courses?

I'd like to take your word for it, but it just sounds too incredible. More soldiers die in motorcycle accidents than in combat? Does this include all the deaths from this war?

Coal
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L-188
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 5):
More soldiers die in motorcycle accidents than in combat? Does this include all the deaths from this war?

Actually while I haven't heard official statistics for this combat, I do recall that the US Army has a lower loss rate for personel during the 1st gulf war then if they had been stateside.

Mainly because they where not on the freeways.


Also most lost days for US Army Aviatiors are caused by Softball, not duty related activities.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:44 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
As long as the real war on terror is ignored and Osama Bin Laden is free, this is important.

Osama has not been forgotten, Canadians are fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan every day. With the help of the Americans and other NATO forces. I realize that we may not have as big an army as the Americans, not even close, but Rucker seems to think that we're holding our own there. America has moved on to Iraq and done an outstanding job there, it dosen't mean that America has forgotten Bin Laden, just that other forces are currently hunting him as well.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 5):
I'd like to take your word for it, but it just sounds too incredible. More soldiers die in motorcycle accidents than in combat? Does this include all the deaths from this war?

Coal

I'm sorry - I should have worded that better. We lose more soldiers per year to MOTOR VEHICLE accidents than in combat.

When I suggested motorcycle safety courses it was because that is the largest growing segment of motor vehicle deaths. We still lose far too many soldiers in car crashes... but the jump in motorcycle deaths is very alarming.

But yes, combat deaths are NOT the number one preventable cause of death for US soldiers.

-UH60

EDIT:
The comparison between motor vehicle accidents and combat deaths are on a yearly basis. IE: Every year we lose Y amount of soldiers in combat and X of soldiers in motor vehicle accidents. X is always greater than Y. Now of course, if you used ALL of the combat deaths since 2001, then yes, it would be greater than the number of soldiers lost in accidents per year.

[Edited 2006-09-11 07:11:08]
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
padraighaz
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 8):
We lose more soldiers per year to MOTOR VEHICLE accidents than in combat.

Well if we're going to use statistics in this manner, it would be interesting to know how many iraqi women and children die annually to reduce american troop fatalities?

It should be simple; Let Y = troop deaths in Iraq, X = motor vehicle troop losses in US so X-Y is the troop gain. Let W be the number of women killed in the violence and C the number of children. Therefore the yield ratio in question is

(W+C)/(X-Y) = Deaths of Women and children required per extra troop life saved.

As long as X > Y, the ratio is positive and so war is beneficial to our troops. Ya gotta love statistics.
 
padraighaz
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:54 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
You know... considering how we lose more soldiers per year in vehicle crashes, than all yearly combat deaths (all theaters combined).

And of course, since it's late I missed the more obvious response to this statistic, namely that this could be taken as an indication of how bloated and out of control our military is.

As I said, ya gotta love statistics - and this one is a keeper.
 
Klaus
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:01 pm

One could only hope that the numbers involving physical injuries and psychological trauma were as "favourable" for the war, but I sort of doubt that...!  crazy 

Completely ignoring the other victims besides those among the US military, of course.
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:02 pm

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 9):

I really think that was uncalled for and you owe me an appology.

To even suggest that I place less emphasis on Iraqi civilians deaths than American deaths is insulting. You obviously know nothing about me. Because if you did, you would know about instances such as putting myself, and my helicopter, between wounded Iraqis and the insurgents. On numerous occasions, my crew and I have not thought twice about exposing ourselves to greater danger, so that we can shield the medics as they tend to injured civilians.

And don't throw the number of Iraqi deaths in my face, as though I am some how oblivious to them. I've seen more dead than I care to talk about, I've cried tears over the bodies of Americans and Iraqis.

So please don't talk to me like you know a damn thing about life over here. Your post was rude and very telling about your character.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:12 pm

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 9):

Well if we're going to use statistics in this manner, it would be interesting to know how many iraqi women and children die annually to reduce american troop fatalities?

It should be simple; Let Y = troop deaths in Iraq, X = motor vehicle troop losses in US so X-Y is the troop gain. Let W be the number of women killed in the violence and C the number of children. Therefore the yield ratio in question is

(W+C)/(X-Y) = Deaths of Women and children required per extra troop life saved.

As long as X > Y, the ratio is positive and so war is beneficial to our troops. Ya gotta love statistics.



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
I really think that was uncalled for and you owe me an appology.

I've got to say that I support Rucker on this one. He's over there putting his ass on the line every day so that you can carry out your normal life. He went there whether he agreed with the reasons or not, because that's his job, to protect your country.

Have some respect for the people who keep you safe and are willing to die for you.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
Klaus
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:19 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
So please don't talk to me like you know a damn thing about life over here. Your post was rude and very telling about your character.

Maybe - maybe not.

From your previous posts and until I have reason to assume otherwise, I tend to believe that the cynical calculations above were indeed just an excursion, not your dominant mindset.

But once that door is opened, you're not the only one able to go through it - and back again.

I may have missed it, but I don't think Padraighaz actually claimed that you were that jaded. And I guess we all hope it will never be the case.

A bit of clarification from him probably couldn't hurt, however...

[Edited 2006-09-11 08:22:31]
 
spacemanspiff
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:20 pm

best war?? Nuts you are!!!!
i am a weirdo from outer space
 
Klaus
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:30 pm

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 13):
I've got to say that I support Rucker on this one. He's over there putting his ass on the line every day so that you can carry out your normal life.

And I think he does indeed deserve respect and our support for as far as we know doing his best and making a positive difference under extreme circumstances.

Still, I don't believe in some people's idea of "the designated hero is speaking - everybody else shut up!" I think that that isn't adequate either.

I think we should get intended or unintended insults out of the way and continue from there.
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:32 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 14):

It has little to do with that.

My original sidebar was referencing the fact that very few know we lose more soldiers in POVs than in war (as already displayed by a few a.netters). I never even MENTIONED Iraqis/Iraqi civilian women and children/Iraqi deaths/etc... and I certainly never mentioned anything regarding the more innocent Iraqi deaths equals more saved American lives.

It's total   . The comment was rude, it was based off of nothing previously mentioned in the thread, and he should apologize for it.

-UH60

[Edited 2006-09-11 08:33:49]
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
Klaus
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:56 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 17):
My original sidebar was referencing the fact that very few know we lose more soldiers in POVs than in war (as already displayed by a few a.netters). I never even MENTIONED Iraqis/Iraqi civilian women and children/Iraqi deaths/etc... and I certainly never mentioned anything regarding the more innocent Iraqi deaths equals more saved American lives.

No, of course you didn't. But I have not seen Padraig claim you did either - he merely took the introduced thought and led it to yet another, even more cynical conclusion.

If anybody did in fact base serious decisions on considerations like that, it would be highly despicable. But I don't think anybody insinuates that you or anybody else actually did that.

It is in the nature of abstract thoughts about death that they can easily get out of hand. In some specific contexts they may have their place, but in any decent conversation the disclaimers should either be implied very clearly or be made explicit where necessary.

I was under the assumption we all agreed on the purely theoretical nature of those calculations from start to finish. It is obvious they affect you more directly than any of us outside Iraq, but I don't think an insult was intended there. But Padraig will have to respond for himself in the end.
 
aaflt1871
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RE: The Best War Ever

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:03 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 8):
I'm sorry - I should have worded that better. We lose more soldiers per year to MOTOR VEHICLE accidents than in combat.

Sadly, that can be said about any job profession. Example, how many flight attendants are killed in plane crashes compared to car crashes.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 17):
The comment was rude

Yes indeed
Where did everybody go?
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
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RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
I really think that was uncalled for and you owe me an appology.

Why? Becuase I used your own logic against you?

You wrote:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
If you truly care about preventing the death of soldiers... why don't you help get more soldiers to take motorcycle safety courses?

and now when the stupidity of this remark is brought to light you say:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
And don't throw the number of Iraqi deaths in my face, as though I am some how oblivious to them. I've seen more dead than I care to talk about, I've cried tears over the bodies of Americans and Iraqis.

To me these are incongrous, and the motor vehicle statistic seems like an attempt to spin the costs of being in Iraq for political and pro-military reasons.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
So please don't talk to me like you know a damn thing about life over here. Your post was rude and very telling about your character.

And what does it say about your character when yor pet peev is to spin american fatalities in the war the way you did? As I've said already, this might just be a reflection of how enormous the american military machine is.

On a personal note, I believe you when you you write:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
To even suggest that I place less emphasis on Iraqi civilians deaths than American deaths is insulting. You obviously know nothing about me. Because if you did, you would know about instances such as putting myself, and my helicopter, between wounded Iraqis and the insurgents. On numerous occasions, my crew and I have not thought twice about exposing ourselves to greater danger, so that we can shield the medics as they tend to injured civilians.

but this commendable/heroic behaviour is not a free pass to spin statistics.
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
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RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 13):
I've got to say that I support Rucker on this one. He's over there putting his ass on the line every day so that you can carry out your normal life. He went there whether he agreed with the reasons or not, because that's his job, to protect your country.

Support in what way? The original silly statistic I ridiculed? Would his motor-vehicle "analysis" be any more truthful or have less pro-administration spin if it came from someone over here?

Has free speech and dialog now degenerated to a level where anything, no matter how off the wall, that comes from the mouths of our troops, can't be commented on? He gave an absurd statistic; I used his logic to provide an equivalent statistic and instead of either laughing or analyzing he retreats into listing his heroic and caring actions (which, BTW, I am prepared to accept at face value.)

I criticized the argument, not the man.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
The Best War Ever

This qualifies for asinine statement of the month.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 1):
Somehow, using "best" and "war" in the same sentence is simply absurd.

 checkmark 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Klaus
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RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 21):
Has free speech and dialog now degenerated to a level where anything, no matter how off the wall, that comes from the mouths of our troops, can't be commented on? He gave an absurd statistic; I used his logic to provide an equivalent statistic and instead of either laughing or analyzing he retreats into listing his heroic and caring actions (which, BTW, I am prepared to accept at face value.)

I think you're getting a bit overboard here - I don't think UH ever intended any serious justification of the war or anything along those lines; I saw it more as some kind of "did you know?" piece of trivia - with very obvious caveats basically built-in.

Maybe you should both step your respective escalation levels down a notch or two.
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
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RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 20):
Why? Becuase I used your own logic against you?

Hardly. People go around and talk about "saving the troops!" and how we must "stop the madness before another soldier dies!" But when I point out we lose more soldiers per year in car accidents... a lot of those same people suddenly don't give two shits about soldiers' lives. And Pad raig, when I pointed out this fact, I never even approach the subject of "war justification" or "American lives being more important than Iraqi lives." You pulled that jewel out of thin air all by yourself.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 20):
the motor vehicle statistic seems like an attempt to spin the costs of being in Iraq for political and pro-military reasons.

Again - you know nothing of me. Because if you did, you'd know where I stand on this war, and you would know that I am certainly no microphone for spin.

You're only highlighting my original point: There are people - both Democratic and Republican - who couldn't care less about the lives of the men and women in uniform... because if they did, they'd take interest when I told them that we tragically lose nearly a thousand per year in car accidents. And they're only invoking the name of the dead, not out of compassion, but because it serves their own political arguments. THAT is the true spin of statistics.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 20):
And what does it say about your character when yor pet peev is to spin american fatalities in the war the way you did?

You just keep tripping over your own ignorance, don't you? What does it say about my character when I point out the number one killer of service men and women? I dunno... maybe that I care enough to want to eliminate the number one threat to my brothers and sisters in arms?

--------------------------------------------

Padraig, this is the SECOND time, in one thread, you've talked about me without knowing a damn thing. You're comment... and now comments... were baseless, rude and insulting. I am still waiting for that apology, but considering how you've twice displayed the depth of your character, I am not holding my breathe for it.

And until you do - I'm through with you in this thread, or any other. You don't deserve my respect, let alone my time.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 24):
You don't deserve my respect, let alone my time.

 bomb  There just some people whom one cannot have a discussion with.


Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 24):
because if they did, they'd take interest when I told them that we tragically lose nearly a thousand per year in car accidents

For a few years, some of us in the CHP was able to get a sweet deal, flying to Hawaii and sailing back with the Navy giving traffic safety classes onboard, to help remain them of the hazards awaiting them when they got back.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
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RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
As long as the real war on terror is ignored and Osama Bin Laden is free, this is important.

He is clearly in northern Pakistan now. Might have been pretty much all along.

Do you want us to invade Pakistan to get him?
I'll take a one-word answer please.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):
Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 9):
I really think that was uncalled for and you owe me an appology.

Don't hold your breath. Padraig will debate you for awhile, until things aren't going his way. At which point he will declare his moral superiority over you and go to another thread.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
I think you're getting a bit overboard here - I don't think UH ever intended any serious justification of the war or anything along those lines; I saw it more as some kind of "did you know?" piece of trivia - with very obvious caveats basically built-in.

Klaus is correct. Stateside accidents ARE a huge problem for the military. When I was an XO on my last tour afloat, the days I dreaded the most were the first four days after we returned from patrol. I considered it a success if I didn't have to bail anyone out of jail or visit them in the hospital.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 24):
Padraig, this is the SECOND time, in one thread, you've talked about me without knowing a damn thing. You're comment... and now comments... were baseless, rude and insulting. I am still waiting for that apology, but considering how you've twice displayed the depth of your character, I am not holding my breathe for it.

And until you do - I'm through with you in this thread, or any other. You don't deserve my respect, let alone my time.

Well, I'm not sure I need, nor care about, character assessments from someone who's response to concern about our troops dying in Iraq, is an appeal for more drivers ed.
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 28):
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 24):
Padraig, this is the SECOND time, in one thread, you've talked about me without knowing a damn thing. You're comment... and now comments... were baseless, rude and insulting. I am still waiting for that apology, but considering how you've twice displayed the depth of your character, I am not holding my breathe for it.

And until you do - I'm through with you in this thread, or any other. You don't deserve my respect, let alone my time.

Well, I'm not sure I need, nor care about, character assessments from someone who's response to concern about our troops dying in Iraq, is an appeal for more drivers ed.

OK, let me try and unring the bell here.

The more I think about this, the more I don't like the way this is evolving. It's kind of dumb of me to expect people with very different mindsets and life experiences to argue according to the narrow rules I personally consider fair, and it is incumbent on me when entering a forum like this to be aware of this.
So, yes, you do have your apology.

Padraig.
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
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RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 25):
For a few years, some of us in the CHP was able to get a sweet deal, flying to Hawaii and sailing back with the Navy giving traffic safety classes onboard, to help remain them of the hazards awaiting them when they got back.

You know it's very interesting. The safety briefings have taken a noticable change lately. They're no longer those boring lectures coupled with black and white 8mm films!

When I went on mid-tour leave down to Doha, I had to go to a mandatory safety briefing. And these civilian contractors gave an excellent presentation that actually taught me a few things!

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 27):
Klaus is correct. Stateside accidents ARE a huge problem for the military. When I was an XO on my last tour afloat, the days I dreaded the most were the first four days after we returned from patrol. I considered it a success if I didn't have to bail anyone out of jail or visit them in the hospital.

After I started talking about this subject early on in the thread, I went and read a few PLRs (preliminary loss reports) regarding POV accidents - the overall number is decreasing, but it's still very high. And we've got a number of contributing factors that make it difficult. One of the big buzz phrases going around is "Post-Deployment Invulnerability." Soldiers are returning home, having survived living in a very dangerous environment, with a sense of invulnerability. "I survived a war... I don't need to drive without a seatbelt." Which is off course, wrong. And also, there's been an overlooked habit in Iraq for soldiers to NOT wear their safety belts while riding on convoys. I know I haven't worn mine a few times. If I'm in a burning, twisted vehicle, do I want to be trapped inside?? But of course, we're finding out more soldiers are getting injured from blunt impact forces, then from being suck in the vehicle.

But the good news is they've stepped up the effort to get the message out and the programs seem to be having an impact.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 26):
He is clearly in northern Pakistan now. Might have been pretty much all along.

Clearly. And it's not just him, but most likely Ayman al-Zawahiri and Abu al-Masri.

The intel Jamal al-Fadl provided has given us a fairly solid understanding of the overall command structure. Slam - I suggest reading that West Point sponsored study - I forget the name - but it was a well written (especially for a bunch of butter bars  Wink ) examination of how to effectively deal with Al-Qaeda. Some solid suggestions about the "Pakistani issue" and how to possibly smoke the leaders out of the Kohistan District.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: The Best War Ever

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 29):
The more I think about this, the more I don't like the way this is evolving. It's kind of dumb of me to expect people with very different mindsets and life experiences to argue according to the narrow rules I personally consider fair, and it is incumbent on me when entering a forum like this to be aware of this.
So, yes, you do have your apology.

ÊÊ Let's see if I can translate the above.

I'm much smarter and more erudite the most everyone here on Anet, so I need to remember that and be sensitive to those haven't evolved to the degree that I have.

Padraig, your "apology" is one the most arrogant and condescending statements I've seen in a long time.

[Edited 2006-09-12 06:35:40]
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: The Best War Ever

Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 31):
ÊÊ Let's see if I can translate the above.

I'm much smarter and more erudite the most everyone here on Anet, so I need to remember that and be sensitive to those haven't evolved to the degree that I have.

Padraig, your "apology" is one the most arrogant and condescending statements I've seen in a long time.

When I wrote:

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 29):
The more I think about this, the more I don't like the way this is evolving. It's kind of dumb of me to expect people with very different mindsets and life experiences to argue according to the narrow rules I personally consider fair, and it is incumbent on me when entering a forum like this to be aware of this.

it was after discussing this with my wife who has been a counsellor in the past. I characterized the issue to her in terms where I said I didn't understand why some people took things so personally, even though I thought it was fair game to criticize their arguments. Her response was that at times she found this irritating about me also, but attributed it to my scientific/analytical background. She said there would be little communication if I expected others to argue the exact same way and that others would have different paradigms and that it was irrelevant whether or not I thought mine was the best - everyone thinks their approach is the proper one.

This is all I meant when I wrote the apology. I think UH can decide for himself what to make of it and doesn't need your venomnous spin.
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
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RE: The Best War Ever

Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:54 pm

Padraighaz, I've often found that when people start obsessing about the style of one's posts rather than their content, that's a good reason to question whether they have anything substantive to contribute. Don't let it bother you. I haven't followed your disputes in this thread, but I'd imagine that they are fairly insubstantial.

You and I don't always agree about political matters, but my experience has been that you've been almost invariably polite, and I appreciate that a great deal.

And might I add that while I've freely offered respect to those who serve our country, it's quite another thing for anyone to demand it. It's quite distasteful, in my view, because it smacks of bullying.

Now, back to the topic of this thread: Satire has always had a place in American politics, but not all satire is equally laudable. Judging from the reactions of those who seem to hate the President, I can only conclude that this satire achieved its very limited end of preaching almost exclusively to the converted.

[Edited 2006-09-13 05:59:26]
What's fair is fair.

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