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Braybuddy
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Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:50 am

I used to have eight 40w reflector bulbs (which were recommended) in two light fittings in my kitchen, and these used to blow occasionally. I'd go through about 8-12 a year.

I replaced the fittings three months ago with two strips of four 50w halogen bulbs (they came with the fittings), but the problem has persisted, but probably not as bad as before. They used to go when the lights were turned on, but today one popped for no particular reason.

It's an old house, but the place was rewired 30 years ago. I don't know if it's a wriring problem, a problem with the switch, or something else.

Any of you electrical geniuses out there know what's going on here?
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:04 am

May be a few things...but I would check polarity.
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Richphitzwell (Reply 1):
May be a few things...but I would check polarity.

Hmmmm. . . . I'll reverse it on both fittings, but there were no instructions with them giving any indication of correct wiring. Thanks for your suggestion Richphitzwell.
 
andessmf
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
Any of you electrical geniuses out there know what's going on here?

Ask away!

My first question is: How many circuit breakers/fuses does your electrical panel have? What is the size of the electrical panel (amps)? What is the size of your house?
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:23 am

Nine circut breakers one of which covers everything. I don't know how to find out the size of the electrical panel, but the main circuit breaker has "63A" on it, if that's any help. There are seven rooms in the house.
 
andessmf
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:38 am

Next question.

What type of electrical loads do you have on your house?

Washer? Dryer? Heating? A/C? Cooking?
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:52 am

Washer, dryer, dishwasher, shower, no A/C or cooking. Other general domestic stuff.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:04 am

I've been an electrician since 1977. It's not the wiring; you'd notice other more serious problems. It's probably not the switch; you'd hear snapping and arcing in the switch if the contacts were bad. If there was a mechanical problem with the switch, you'd "feel" it...looseness, friction, etc.

I think you have a heat problem. Excessive heat build-up is one of the primary reasons for premature lamp failure. Sealed flood and spot lamps with built-in reflectors (below left) have short life expectancies for that reason. Likewise with open-reflector projector lamps (below center). Standard light bulbs installed in recessed "can lights" (below right) burn out prematurely due to heat build-up in the confined space.



I installed can lights with sealed spot lamps in our new EMS station. All the lamps burned out within 10 hours. I replaced them with standard round light bulbs. Same thing. The only lamps that have held up are fluorescent lamps that are designed to replace incandescent lamps (below). They've been on for hundreds of hours without any failures.



Feel free to ask me any questions.

Mark
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andessmf
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:14 am

Heat is a good possibility for the failure. Looking at the loads provided and the number of circuits you might also be overloaded on the circuit.

Here in the US it has been mandatory to install fluorescent lights in kitchens for decades. I would recommend that you change them to fluorescent.
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:19 am

Thanks for your help Mark. The kitchen doesn't get excessively hot, but now that you mention it, the bulb that popped today was some time after I'd left a pressure cooker on for longer than it should have been. It didn't happen at the time the kitchen was full of steam, but maybe an hour or more later.

Is it normal for reflector/halogen bulbs to have a life of only a couple of months in some cases?
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 8):
Looking at the loads provided and the number of circuits you might also be overloaded on the circuit.

Not likely. Lamps don't burn out as the result of an overloaded circuit. You'd find blown fuses and tripped circuit breakers if that were the case. Voltage surges can burn out lamps, but they would affect the entire house. You'd see lamps burned out on all circuits and possibly some fried electronic devices.

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andessmf
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:54 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 9):

Is it normal for reflector/halogen bulbs to have a life of only a couple of months in some cases?

Sometimes normal and expected. Do you also have your lights in a ceiling recess, where the heat might build up more?
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 9):
The kitchen doesn't get excessively hot

I meant the excessive heat would be within a confined area, like a recessed light fixture. For example, a 50-watt bulb mounted in a soup can might last an hour before burning out. The same bulb mounted in a basement ceiling without a cover could last for years. Circulating air keeps it cooler.



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 9):
Is it normal for reflector/halogen bulbs to have a life of only a couple of months in some cases?

Yes. It's often less than that. For example, some aircraft landing light sealed beam lamps are rated for only 10 hours.

Mark
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sean377
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:03 am

Are you using cheap unbranded lamps (bulbs)? This is the number one reason for crap lamp life.

The wiring in your house, circuit loads, etc. have very little (i.e. nothing) to do with lamps blowing.

Incandescent lamps (like your reflectors and halogens) have a much poorer life than the likes of fluorescent lamps. But whereas fluorescent lamps do have major benefits over incandescent lamps, they are not quite suited to domestic home use.

My advice would be to stop buying unbranded lamps (if you are) at 20p each and buy branded ones (GE, Philips) at 40p a piece. You will notice a difference.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 2):
Hmmmm. . . . I'll reverse it on both fittings

Careful. You don't want to interchange the Load, Neutral, and Earth wires. Although the lamp might work fine, you could create a shock hazard, especially in a kitchen. You could get zapped with 220 volts.

Load must be the brown wire. May be red (old colour code)
Neutral must be the blue wire. May be black (old colour code)
Earth must yellow/green wire. May be green (old colour code)

Mark

[Edited 2006-09-15 21:38:52]
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sean377
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 14):
Careful.

I agree. Don't alter the wiring. It is not the problem.
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WSOY
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:06 am

How can you prevent over heating?
Never operate the halogen lamp above the rated operating temperature. The seal temperature should always be maintained below 350°C and the bulb temperature should be kept between 250°C and 550°C. Make sure the cooling system is functioning properly. Do not allow one lamp to directly expose another. If a reflector is being used make certain the IR is not reflected back onto the filament or its support. Finally, make certain particles do not fall on the lamp.

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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:33 am

Sorry for taking so long to reply to you guys: my ISP cut me off for several hours for some reason.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 8):
Looking at the loads provided and the number of circuits you might also be overloaded on the circuit.

I checked, and there's only lighting on that circuit. Sockets are separate.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 8):
I would recommend that you change them to fluorescent.

Not a fan of flourescent lighting, Andes, so I'd prefer not to go down that road, even if it means replacing bulbs regularly.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 11):
Do you also have your lights in a ceiling recess, where the heat might build up more?

No, see below:



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 12):
I meant the excessive heat would be within a confined area, like a recessed light fixture

See above, Mark.

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 13):
Are you using cheap unbranded lamps (bulbs)?

Nope, the ones used are the ones supplied with the units.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 14):
Load must be the brown wire. May be red (old colour code)
Neutral must be the blue wire. May be black (old colour code)
Earth must yellow/green wire. May be green (old colour code)

For light fittings here there are only two wires and they aren't colour coded.

Quoting WSOY (Reply 16):
The seal temperature should always be maintained below 350°C and the bulb temperature should be kept between 250°C and 550°C.

How do you measure sealed temperature?

Thanks for all your help guys, though it's still a bit of a mystery.
 
andessmf
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:18 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17):
For light fittings here there are only two wires and they aren't colour coded.

So now we determined that the wires are old. If you had a new light, it should have come with a green ground wire. You need to connect this to the closest metal part that is not the light.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17):
How do you measure sealed temperature?

I believe this refers to bare-bulb conditions. It wouldn't apply to the lamps you're using.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17):
For light fittings here there are only two wires and they aren't colour coded

Then you don't have to worry about polarity. Polarity wouldn't have any effect in this situation.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17):
How do you measure sealed temperature?

This is important information for the manufacturer of the lighting assemblies. As long as you don't exceed the manufacturer's maximum wattage rating, you need not worry.

Something else that might work is to replace the off/on switch with a variable-control dimmer switch. Running those type of bulbs at 90% really increases lamp life.

Mark
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
Something else that might work is to replace the off/on switch with a variable-control dimmer switch. Running those type of bulbs at 90% really increases lamp life.

Hmmm. . . . worth a try! The older reflector bulbs used to only blow when the switch was turned on. Only two of the halogen bulbs have blown so far in the last couple of months. I can't remember how the first one went, but today the second one popped for no apparent reason after it had been on for a while.

Thanks Mark!
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:52 pm

polarity is always there, the color of the wire does not matter....could be a dashed wire or the electrician ran two of the same color wires. as stated, there are many reasons that could cause the problem, but a quick easy way to eliminate your side of the issue is to verify polarity. The other part is of your side of the issue is assuring the all devices are of the proper voltage for the application. IE, 110, 220, 440...in the USA for residential, it is primarily 110, but other countries the standard is 220.

But I'm ignorant of the issue as I only deal with large commercial applications.
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L-188
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:01 pm

Can I assume that we are talking about a 220V system.

I don't know enough about european wiring to comment.
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sean377
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:10 pm



That looks like an extra low voltage fitting to me (12v). I assume the two wires that are the same colour are the ones that run from the transformer to the lamps, in which case, polarity does not matter.

The figures below show why your halogens are lasting longer than your reflectors (about twice as long?), but 2000hrs is still naff compared to fluorecent lamps.

Some average lamp lifes (that does not mean they will all last this long):

40w Reflector = 1000hrs

12v 50w Halogen = 2000hrs

20w decorative fluorescent = 6000hrs

4ft 36w standard fluorescent = 9000hrs

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17):
Quoting Sean377 (Reply 13):
Are you using cheap unbranded lamps (bulbs)?

Nope, the ones used are the ones supplied with the units.

That means they are definately cheap lamps. The above figures are for GE branded lamps. The ones mage in China that you get from the corner shop, or even some DIY stores, will not have anywhere near these figures.

Also, if the lamps don't have a protective glass cover, make sure you don't touch the glass of the lamp itself. This will cut lamp life too.

[Edited 2006-09-16 10:13:06]
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:17 pm

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 21):
The other part is of your side of the issue is assuring the all devices are of the proper voltage for the application. IE, 110, 220, 440



Quoting L-188 (Reply 22):
Can I assume that we are talking about a 220V system.

Yes, voltage is 220 volts in Ireland, and as the fittings were bought here they would have to be compatible. The previous reflector ones were also bought here and also suffered the same problem.



While the house is nearly 200 years old, it was rewired completely in 1974 and certified by the national electricty supply company. I haven't had any electrical problems in the rest of the house, only with the lighting in the kitchen above. Lighting and sockets are on separate trip switches.

There is no air conditioning, but as you can see, the kitchen is big enough to not overheat unless the cooker is being used heavily. As I pointed out to Mark above, one of the bulbs popped yesterday after I'd left the pressure cooker on for longer than it should be, although it didn't blow at the time (maybe an hour later?). I'm not sure what caused the previous one to blow. The old reflector ones used to always pop when the switch was turned on.
 
sean377
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 24):
I haven't had any electrical problems in the rest of the house, only with the lighting in the kitchen

Out of interest, what type of lights do you have in other parts of the house, i.e. type and number of bulbs at each fitting?
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:54 pm

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 25):
Out of interest, what type of lights do you have in other parts of the house, i.e. type and number of bulbs at each fitting?

The rest are all single light fittings, apart from the main bedroom, where there four separate (but electrically connected) reflector fittings.
 
sean377
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:06 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 26):
The rest are all single light fittings, apart from the main bedroom, where there four separate (but electrically connected) reflector fittings.

I'm certain there is not a problem with your house electrics.

You had eight reflector lamps in your kitchen and now you have eight halogens. That's equal to eight other rooms in the house that have single lights, so on the basis of probability, it's more likely that the next bulb to blow will be in the kitchen.

The situation may be exacerbated because the kitchen is possibly the room where the lights are switched on and off the most. You go in and out the kitchen all day long, switching the lights as you come and go. In the lounge, you go in and leave the light on for a while (and usually leave it on when you go to the kitchen for a beer). This constant switching also reduces lamp life.
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:26 pm

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 27):
The situation may be exacerbated because the kitchen is possibly the room where the lights are switched on and off the most. You go in and out the kitchen all day long, switching the lights as you come and go.

Thanks for your help Sean. You are right when you say that on account of the number of bulbs in the kitchen they are more likely to blow first, although the problem there does seem to be above average. Like I said in an earlier post, I used to go through about 8-12 a year with the old reflector ones. It's too early to give the rate for the halogen ones yet. Funny, in the main bedroom, where four small 40w reflector bulbs are run off the main light fitting, I can only recall about two blowing in the last twenty years.

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 27):
The situation may be exacerbated because the kitchen is possibly the room where the lights are switched on and off the most.

I got so fed-up with the reflector ones blowing when the switch was turned on (they used to blow at more than a dozen a year) I actually used to leave them on rather than switch them off if I left the house. They would stay on all the time, apart from full daylight and at night. So leaving them on longer would no doubt shorten their life, but flicking the switch on was definitely a factor in them popping.
 
iakobos
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:53 pm

Ever checked the actual voltage ?
In EU we are supposed to get 234V (not 220) from the power grid.

Ever asked your supplier to run a check (for surges) ?

A very good way to save your bulbs is to reduce the voltage (with a good dimmer in the "sensitive" circuits), you wont see much difference, except in your wallet at the end of the month.

I run most lamps on 195-200V, and I did not have to change a single one (490 sqm appartment) in one year.
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:54 pm

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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 30):

. . . thanks! So it IS better to leave them switched on.
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:23 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 31):
So it IS better to leave them switched on

Well, if only for the lamps sake! I'm not sure if the increased running costs would work out cheaper than the cost of a new bulb tho'!
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:45 pm

Are you installing the halogen bulbs with your bare fingers? Never touch a halogen bulb...your natural body oils will accellerate failure. If you accidentally touch a halogen bulb, remove it and wipe it off with alcohol before turning on. Regards...jack
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 pm

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 29):
Ever checked the actual voltage ?
In EU we are supposed to get 234V (not 220) from the power grid.

Ever asked your supplier to run a check (for surges) ?

No to both. If there are surges, as AsstChiefMark mentioned above, they would affect the rest of the house.

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 29):
A very good way to save your bulbs is to reduce the voltage (with a good dimmer in the "sensitive" circuits), you wont see much difference, except in your wallet at the end of the month.

AsstCheifMark has already mentioned this, and I think it's probably the best option. Thanks Ikabos.

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 33):
Are you installing the halogen bulbs with your bare fingers?

The units came with the halogen bulbs already in place and covered in plastic.
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:14 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 14):
Load must be the brown wire. May be red (old colour code)
Neutral must be the blue wire. May be black (old colour code)
Earth must yellow/green wire. May be green (old colour code)

Carefull!
The new colour code (for single phase AC only, thrre phase AC has black load wires as well to distinguish between the phases) is international standard now, but the old colour code Mark mentioned e.g. does not apply to Germany. There Load was grey, neutral was black and earth was red.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17):
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 8):
I would recommend that you change them to fluorescent.

Not a fan of flourescent lighting, Andes, so I'd prefer not to go down that road, even if it means replacing bulbs regularly.

Why don't you use engergy saving lamps (small electronicly regulated flourescent lamps, which fit into standard light bulb fittings, having a similar shape as light bulbs (even available with a reflector) and produce light of a similar colour as incandescent lamps). I use them extensivly in my house. An 11 watt energy saving lamp has the same light ouput as a 60 watt incandescent bulb and uses only 20% of the energy. It also lasts much longer (about 1000 times as long).

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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 35):
Why don't you use engergy saving lamps (small electronicly regulated flourescent lamps, which fit into standard light bulb fittings, having a similar shape as light bulbs (even available with a reflector) and produce light of a similar colour as incandescent lamps). I use them extensivly in my house. An 11 watt energy saving lamp has the same light ouput as a 60 watt incandescent bulb and uses only 20% of the energy. It also lasts much longer (about 1000 times as long).

Like I said earlier, MD11Engineer, the new halogen fittings are only in place three months so I'd like to give them a try. I'll change the light switch to a dimmer one first as suggested earlier and see how that goes rather than go to the trouble of replacing the two brand-new light fixtures.
 
sean377
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:02 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 36):
I'll change the light switch to a dimmer one first

A few things to bare in mind:

1. If the fitting is extra low voltage (i.e. if the lamps are rated 12v), you will need to check that the transformer is dimmable. Most are these days, but best check.

2. Assuming it is dimmable (or mains voltage), the dimmer switch will needs to rated at least 8 x 50w = 400w (or 400va).

3. Check the switch is capable of dimming LV transformers. Again, most are, but best be sure.

If the lamps are 240v rated, then only No.2 above is valid.

Sean
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 37):
1. If the fitting is extra low voltage (i.e. if the lamps are rated 12v), you will need to check that the transformer is dimmable. Most are these days, but best check.

2. Assuming it is dimmable (or mains voltage), the dimmer switch will needs to rated at least 8 x 50w = 400w (or 400va).

3. Check the switch is capable of dimming LV transformers. Again, most are, but best be sure.

If the lamps are 240v rated, then only No.2 above is valid.

Thanks for the help Sean, much appreciated.
 
trvyyz
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:44 pm

IMO, the polarity in ac shouldn't matter for the blowing out of the lamp, polarity is in ac (most of the cases) is a safety issue not get shock from the live wire.

The switching could be the cause of the surge and would affect on that circuit and not the whole house. The best way to get around this would be to use a dimmer switch as mentioned above. Many electronic dimmers are available now, no need of dimming transformer which is better but expensive.
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 33):
Are you installing the halogen bulbs with your bare fingers? Never touch a halogen bulb...your natural body oils will accellerate failure. If you accidentally touch a halogen bulb, remove it and wipe it off with alcohol before turning on. Regards...jack

Excellent point, I have had a 500 watter on a halagon work light go quickly once and I am pretty sure that was part of the reason.

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 23):
That looks like an extra low voltage fitting to me (12v).

I was wondering that? because there should be a powersupply in that fixture to take the voltage from AC to DC to run it.

And occasionly those do go on the fritz. And often times their failure method is an intermittant spike in power.
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Sean377 (Reply 30):
You asked for it...

Why do light-bulb filaments usually blow when first switched on, and not at the end of a long evening's use when they are at their hottest and most hard working?

Because of the current surge through the filament when it's still cold.


And, by definition, there's no polarity in AC voltage, but several conventions exist for singling out the wire carrying the neutral (ground) potential. Joe Public should consider all wires regardless of ther colour dangerous.

[Edited 2006-09-17 00:33:33]
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WSOY
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 35):
but the old colour code Mark mentioned e.g. does not apply to Germany. There Load was grey, neutral was black and earth was red.

Are you sure? The old standard we had was Live=black, Neutral=gray, 0=red.
The common standard for 1-phase connection has long been
Live=Brown
Neutral=Blue
0=green-yellow
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sean377
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting WSOY (Reply 41):
And, by definition, there's no polarity in AC voltage, but several conventions exist for singling out the wire carrying the neutral (ground) potential. Joe Public should consider all wires regardless of ther colour dangerous.

Quite true. Here in the UK, the live and neutral have become phase and neutral, as both conductors are considered live.

Quoting WSOY (Reply 42):
Live=Brown
Neutral=Blue
0=green-yellow

Bloody harmonization. You couldn't go wrong with the old colours...

Red to red, black to black and blue to pieces!

Quoting L-188 (Reply 40):
I was wondering that? because there should be a powersupply in that fixture to take the voltage from AC to DC to run it.

The transformer will be in the base.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting WSOY (Reply 42):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 35):
but the old colour code Mark mentioned e.g. does not apply to Germany. There Load was grey, neutral was black and earth was red.

Are you sure? The old standard we had was Live=black, Neutral=gray, 0=red.
The common standard for 1-phase connection has long been
Live=Brown
Neutral=Blue
0=green-yellow

Thanks for the correction. Of course it should be black = load, grey = neutral, red = ground, I just stated it in contrast to Mark's old American standard, where red = load. You could get a nasty shock if you don't know the difference.

Jan
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:23 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 40):
Excellent point, I have had a 500 watter on a halagon work light go quickly once and I am pretty sure that was part of the reason.

They actually tell you on the packaging not to touch the bulbs with bare hands.

I think there might be an issue with the lack of ground for the transformer. Those lights look like they are low voltage. The connections required should have been pretty clear on the instructions.

Braybuddy, do you still have the manufacturer and model # for the light?
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 45):
They actually tell you on the packaging not to touch the bulbs with bare hands

I had it with tissue in one hand when I dropped it but caught it with the other bare hand.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:46 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 46):
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 45):
They actually tell you on the packaging not to touch the bulbs with bare hands

I had it with tissue in one hand when I dropped it but caught it with the other bare hand.

No problem. Just wipe the fingerprints off with alcohol, acetone or a similar solvent after installation before switching it on. The reason is that halogen lamps get much hotter than normal light bulbs in operation. The fingerprints contain acids which at the high temperatures will eat into the glass and eventually cause miniature cracks through with air (oxygen) will leak into the bulb, causing the filament to burn.

Jan
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:56 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 45):
Braybuddy, do you still have the manufacturer and model # for the light?

No Andes, sorry. Packaging is long gone. Although I don't know much about electrics, I doubt it's a problem with the units as, like I said earlier, I had the exact same problem with the old reflector units, which were in place for twenty years.
 
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RE: Any Lighting/electrical Experts In Here?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:43 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 47):
No problem. Just wipe the fingerprints off with alcohol, acetone or a similar solvent after installation before switching it on. The reason is that halogen lamps get much hotter than normal light bulbs in operation. The fingerprints contain acids which at the high temperatures will eat into the glass and eventually cause miniature cracks through with air (oxygen) will leak into the bulb, causing the filament to burn.

Jan, I must say I got interested in this, the physics seemed interesting, after all, at least my fingerprints don't burn holes into thin paper or the like.
Sure enough, I was able to google out an interesting source:

http://www.gatago.com/sci/engr/lighting/13808285.html
(originally from newsgroup sci.engineering.lighting )

"The early failure and/or rupture of halogen lamps contaminated by finger
prints or grease are widely-held notions; but in several decades of product
service experience with a major lamp manufacturer and the inventors of the
halogen lamp, I've never seen any evidence of such a problem with general
service halogen lamps. Sure, dirt can cause some fogging (devitrification)
of the quartz surface; but that's a long ways from bulb softening and
failure.

Terry McGowan"

Mr McGowan's credentials from: http://www.darksky.org/about/board

 

[Edited 2006-09-18 10:51:02]
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