muddydwagon
Posts: 649
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:38 pm

GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:14 am

Just reading through some news stories, and this caught my attention.


The nation's two largest automakers, Ford and General Motors, have reportedly discussed an alliance or merger.


http://www.thestreet.com/_googlen/ne..._ven=GOOGLEN&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA


Both manufacturers are declining comments.

What will this mean for the US auto industry, Is this really what it has come to?


Your thoughts.


Cheers Peter
 
jamesbuk
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RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:41 am

Excuse my ignorance but what or how does a car alliance work?

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
egmcman
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RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 1):
Excuse my ignorance but what or how does a car alliance work?

Sharing of platforms and engines think of being VW owning Skoda, Seat and Audi where platforms and engines are used in each manufacturers marques.
 
dtwclipper
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:27 am

Don't get too excited about General Ford Motor Company:


"As of now, the two companies are not holding talks, and one person says there is a slim chance that anything will come of it."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...icle?AID=/20060918/NEWS99/60918001
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
ORFflyer
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RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Muddydwagon (Thread starter):
Is this really what it has come to

I think it's pretty much been there for a while. Almost all American made cars and light trucks are very similar in quality, craftsmanship, design, and price. The US automakers have IMO, let the union labor costs put them in a position to sacrifice quality. While I still buy American now, I will not let that be a deciding factor in future auto purchases.
 
muddydwagon
Posts: 649
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:38 pm

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 4):

Yes I do agree with you there. On the buying American, before I left the US I worked at a Chevrolet dealership and traded my Chevrolet for a Volvo. The quality, craftsmanship, and pride is no longer there. That fact is quite sad.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 3):
Don't get too excited about General Ford Motor Company

Yes it is nothing to get excited about. I do think that Ford wants to jump on the Nissan, Renault alliance if GM decides to not pursue it.


Cheers Peter
 
FriendlySkies
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Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:33 am

Would the DOJ even allow such a "merger" anyway?
 
ltbewr
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
Would the DOJ even allow such a "merger" anyway?

Never happen as would concentrate into 1 company the only real large American vehicle companies (Chrysler is part of German based Daimer-Chrysler). Already Ford and GM do have a joint transmission product and facility for a 6 speed Automatic transmission.
The problems of Ford, GM and DCX (USA side) are very deep, mainly due to union blue collor labor and retiree costs that now have become unsutatinable and made them uncompetitive with foreign based companies which don't have those costs and never will.
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 7):
The problems of Ford, GM and DCX (USA side) are very deep, mainly due to union blue collor labor and retiree costs that now have become unsutatinable and made them uncompetitive with foreign based companies which don't have those costs and never will.

I would also say that the American car companies STILL do not have 'it' when it comes to customer post-sales service, as well as the sales-experience..

Too many years of dropping prices to sell crappy cars (which HAVE got better in recent years), and not focusing on the Customer Service aspect of the whole experience.

Story:

When I bought my Mazda6, I was treated like a king.. they announced that they had a new car buyer, everyone got up and clapped, and I was given a shirt.

When my car came in, my sales guy spent *1* hour going over all the features of my car, where everything was, how to program the remote garage door opener on my rear-view mirror, where all the 'spare' stuff was, and also some 'things that I've learned from our service deparment', such as not shutting the trunk hard enough will cause the doors to not lock, etc.

I won't even go into the service aspect.. they've been FANTASTIC.

Granted, it's dealer-by-dealer, but I just find more people pissed off at GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. when it comes to after-sales support ,than you do with imports.

They just still haven't got it yet..

They are getting better though -- GM's recent extension of their warranty programs is a step in the right direction!

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
N231YE
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RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:50 am

I thought GM was still in talks over a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance. Did that fall through?
 
Superfly
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RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:54 am

Would I be able to get a GMC 8.1 liter V8 with the Lincoln Town Car?
That would be cool.  yes 

Could the Cadillac DTS be mounted to the current Panther platform?
Bring back the Concorde
 
bill142
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Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 9):
I thought GM was still in talks over a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance. Did that fall through?

I think Kirk Kerkorian is looking to dump his shares and getting Renault/Nissan to buy them seems like a good idea. Basicly the alliance would work in similar way to the Nissan Renault one does. GM would buy shares in Renault and Nissan, Nissan and Reanult would buy shares in GM and product sharing would also occur.

A GM Ford deal has no chance. It is super anti-competitive. It would almost be like Apple and Microsoft merging (Klaus would slash his wrists)
 
checkraiser
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RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
they announced that they had a new car buyer, everyone got up and clapped, and I was given a shirt.

I, personally, would not want that kind of attention.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
When my car came in, my sales guy spent *1* hour going over all the features of my car,

My rectum feels stretched and chaffed after I sign for a new car. I prefer to leave the dealership right away!

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
Granted, it's dealer-by-dealer

 checkmark 

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
Mazda6

Ironic - I believe this is a rebadged Ford Fusion.
N1120A is a camel-fucking terrorist.
 
Superfly
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 11):
It would almost be like Apple and Microsoft merging (Klaus would slash his wrists)

Or grow up and dump his Apple for the real deal.  duck 

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 11):
A GM Ford deal has no chance. It is super anti-competitive.

Before Steve Jobs took over Apple, wasn't there talks of Apple and Microsoft merging?
Bring back the Concorde
 
bill142
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Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Before Steve Jobs took over Apple, wasn't there talks of Apple and Microsoft merging?

probably just a rumor to stimulate some movement in the stock prices.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
When I bought my Mazda6, I was treated like a king.. they announced that they had a new car buyer, everyone got up and clapped, and I was given a shirt.

I just got a 2006 new Mazda 6. That is a model assembled in the USA, in a UAW contolled plant in Flat Rock, MI, where the Ford Mustang is assembled too), the V-6 is made in Ohio or Mexico and Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda worldwide.
So far is seems better than the Fusion/Milan on price and value and it seems to be a lot of fun to drive, very smooth. The dealership didn't treat me the same as your's did, but still it was professional and at a Mazda only store (although part of a group that owns a number of brand dealerhips)
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 12):
Ironic - I believe this is a rebadged Ford Fusion.

Granted, it is built in a plant in Michigan but the Mazda6 has been around well before the Fusion was released.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
just got a 2006 new Mazda 6. That is a model assembled in the USA, in a UAW contolled plant in Flat Rock, MI, where the Ford Mustang is assembled too), the V-6 is made in Ohio or Mexico and Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda worldwide.
So far is seems better than the Fusion/Milan on price and value and it seems to be a lot of fun to drive, very smooth. The dealership didn't treat me the same as your's did, but still it was professional and at a Mazda only store (although part of a group that owns a number of brand dealerhips)

Yessir, I was aware of that prior to my post.

If you take a look at my message though, I wasn't calling into question the American WORKER.. I was calling into question the American Automaker NOT understanding that sometimes it's not about selling cheap cars. It's about the whole experience from sales, to after-sales service...

That was my point  Wink

And, by the way.. my next car is likely to be a Civic, or even more likely, a Mazda3, which is built in Japan  Wink

It does say a lot when the Mazda6 WILL hold it's value for re-sale more than the Fusion, just like the Toyota Matrix does over the Pontiac Vibe..

Same car, same parts, some different badges and different body panels, but the guts are the same, yet one car holds more value..

Perception is key.. and right now, the general perception of the American Automaker is that their cars are cheap, plastic and not of high quality..

GM is doing a good job of trying to change that perception now..


1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:07 pm

I think it's very safe to relegate the reported GM/Ford "talks" to the ain'tgonnahappen.com website.

Reiterating previous comments about PERCERPTION of quality and reliability, it's very significant. And, as has been pointed out in numerous topics, USA product is (and has been) very competitive in many if not most areas for a number of years and continues to be so.

BTW, the Flat Rock, MI plant that's been mentioned was originally built (I watched it go up in stages on trips back and forth to our Monroe, MI hangar) as a foundry and engine plant. I believe the "famous" 351 Cleveland CJ V8 blocks were produced there for several years. Other former products after it was converted included the Probe which was originally intended to be the Mustang III. Glad FoMoCo 86'd THAT plan. Regards...jack
all best; jack
 
deltadc9
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RE: GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 9):
I thought GM was still in talks over a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance. Did that fall through?

It looks like it will happen.

GM and Toyota have an alliance so GM and Ford is not as out there as you guys think, stock swaps are not the only type too.

Toyota produces Pontiac's in a Toyota plant, Toyota produces Camry's in a GM plant. Ford has put Mazda transmissions in Rangers since the early 80s long before they gained control. I could go on all night.

Its all about not reinventing the wheel, pardon the very relevant pun.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny

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