Falcon84
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So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:29 am

Let's see: the fighting has been over for well over a month now; part of the agreement, I believe, was the release of those two Israeli soldiers.

And yet....Hezbollah, the self-declared "victor" (snicker), in the conflict, has said it will not give up those soldiers.

So, to all those out there who excuse these creeps all the time, I ask you, why haven't those soldiers been returned yet?

Maybe Hezbollah would REALLY like a war, and to see how it could fare.
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bravo45
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:35 am

I think Hezbollah wanted the blockade completely lifted and Israel wanted the peace keeping force to be in place for that. The last I read was that the red cross asked for access to the men and to confirm that they were alive.
Correct me if I am wrong, and any updates appreciated. Now that the war is over and the media can't sell it anymore, almost no one is reporting on it. Refugees and POWs don't sell.
 
raffik
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:45 am

When do the Palestinian people get members of their elected government back? You know, the ones that Israel kidnapped?

When does Lebanon get their captured back?

Or are you so blatantly one sided, biased and ignorant that you can't see further than the tip of your long pointy nose?
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:48 am

There since the end of the war were reports about some negotiations going on. If so, the Israeli government then will suddenly "produce" them out of the hat. Provided of course that they still are alive. It is possible that they have to be "returned from storage" which may need some time due to distance and transport problems.
 
gkirk
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 2):
When do the Palestinian people get members of their elected government back? You know, the ones that Israel kidnapped?

When does Lebanon get their captured back?

Or are you so blatantly one sided, biased and ignorant that you can't see further than the tip of your long pointy nose?

When does Israel get the thousands of innocent civillians back who were killed by Palestinian terrorists?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 2):
Or are you so blatantly one sided, biased and ignorant that you can't see further than the tip of your long pointy nose?

I'm sorry, but I don't remember those two particular IDF soldiers terrorizing anybody. And I think it's YOUR long and pointy nose that distorts those beliefs of yours.


Chris
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cedars747
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 2):
When do the Palestinian people get members of their elected government back? You know, the ones that Israel kidnapped?

When does Lebanon get their captured back?

Or are you so blatantly one sided, biased and ignorant that you can't see further than the tip of your long pointy nose?

I couldn't agree more!
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
Falcon84
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 3):
There since the end of the war were reports about some negotiations going on. If so, the Israeli government then will suddenly "produce" them out of the hat. Provided of course that they still are alive. It is possible that they have to be "returned from storage" which may need some time due to distance and transport problems.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Made no sense whatsoever.

And I see some of the usual suspects refuse to answer the question. Why haven't these soldiers been released?
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NWA742
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Made no sense whatsoever.

From him, no doubt.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
And I see some of the usual suspects refuse to answer the question. Why haven't these soldiers been released?

Despite what Hezbollah claims, they are probably dead.





-NWA742
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bravo45
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 2):
When do the Palestinian people get members of their elected government back? You know, the ones that Israel kidnapped?

When does Lebanon get their captured back?

That is so true, I think the UN resolutions didnot mention either the Israeli soldiers or the Palestinian and Lebanese prisoners. I think it will drag on, there will be no peace until an overall settlement is reached. The UN resolution perhaps was ONLY related to the Lebanese war and there was no mention of Palestine.
 
raffik
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
I'm sorry, but I don't remember those two particular IDF soldiers terrorizing anybody.

Silly man! They're SOLDIERS for God's sake- they don't sell candy floss at the funfare all day for the love of God. They are trained killers, armed and ready for action!

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
When does Israel get the thousands of innocent civillians back who were killed by Palestinian terrorists

Erm, they don't, because they're dead. Hmm, I wonder how many Israelis have been killed compared to the number of Palestinians.... hmm. Shouldn't be too difficult to work out...
(Under 18)
Since 2000, 603 Palestinian Minors have been killed
Since 2000, 102 Israeli Minors have been killed

Two thirds of all the Palestinians that are killed and injured by Israeli attacks are under 18.

According to UNRWA, between August 1989 and August 1993, 1 085 Palestinians treated in its clinics had been shot in the head, 545 of whom were under sixteen, and 97 of whom were under the age of six. A study by the Association of Israeli and Palestinian Physicians for Human Rights (PHR-Israel) reveals that during the five years of the Al-Aqsa Intifada, a child under the age of six was shot in the head every two weeks.

Still, DCI has estimated that there have been 2 650 Palestinian child prisoners since the start of the Al-Aqsa Intifada in 2000 , which has raised concern among several Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights groups.

over 22 per cent of children under 5 are now suffering from malnutrition and 15.6 per cent from acute anaemia, many of whom will suffer permanent negative effects on their physical and mental development as a result." According to the World Bank, food consumption in the Palestinian Territories has fallen by more than 25 per cent per capita, and "food shortages particularly of proteins, [are] widely reported
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Why haven't these soldiers been released?

Because the idea is to have a prisoner exchange arranged, liberating Lebanese civilians who were during years captured by Israeli soldiers and without proof accused to be Hizbullah militia members. Negotiations apparently were started quite a while ago by the Germans. Such things of course are NOT conducted publicy and can take many many weeks. It may well be that we have to wait for the arrival of the German Navy offshore Lebanon.
 
Falcon84
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 9):
Quoting Raffik (Reply 2):
When do the Palestinian people get members of their elected government back? You know, the ones that Israel kidnapped?

When does Lebanon get their captured back?

That is so true

Why should Isarel return people who actively committed acts of terror against them? As was said above, I don't recall even Hezbollah saying those two Israel soldiers were committing any acts against Lebanon.

And, further, do you guys, apologizing-again-for the terrorsts-think it's a fair trade 2 for a few hundred or thousand? How about, at the most, two for two?

Or, is that somehow not fair.

If these two soldiers turn up dead, as far as I'm concerned, all bets are off, and Israel should, this time, show no mercy to Hezbollah.
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Jetsgo
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 10):
hey don't sell candy floss at the funfare all day for the love of God. They are trained killers, armed and ready for action!

That's the problem right there. Half of your candy floss selling "innocent" Palestinians are trained killers too with warped beliefs waiting to strike. It never ends.


Chris
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bravo45
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 13):
Half of your candy floss selling "innocent" Palestinians are trained killers too with warped beliefs waiting to strike.

PROVE IT!!!! With something other than an Israeli source, the likes of those that justify their expulsion from their own land.

On the other hand IDF IS an occupation force.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
part of the agreement, I believe, was the release of those two Israeli soldiers.

Possibly everyone could stop slinging at each long enough to determine whether this was part of the agreement or not. Whatever the parties agreed to should be lived up to.

From what I remember, there was supposed to be a prisoner exchange, but I could be wrong. If no one knows offhand, let's look it up.
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Falcon84
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Raffik (Reply 10):
They are trained killers, armed and ready for action!

You've been watching way too much TV, dude.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
Because the idea is to have a prisoner exchange arranged

How about two for two, MAF? At the most, it should be two soldiers for two that Israel is holding.

What's wrong with that.
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AirCop
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 8):
Despite what Hezbollah claims, they are probably dead.

I would tend to believe the above is true.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 14):
PROVE IT!!!!

Prove what? That the Palestinians blow themselves up? Isn't that proven every other day on the news? The point is that each of the Palestinians in Israeli custody probably deserve to be there for one charge or another. Those IDF soldiers were in ISRAELI territory, not terrorizing anybody, when they were kidnapped.

I too believe they are most likely dead, and if so, the gloves are off. No excuses.


Chris
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
Why should Isarel return people who actively committed acts of terror against them?

those in question did NOT commit acts of terror.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
How about two for two, MAF? At the most, it should be two soldiers for two that Israel is holding.

It is to be 2/two against approx 20, as I understand from the media. Not more than a hundred. And as the Israelis usually insist that their soldiers are worth several hundreds of the other side, why not. Two captured soldiers were the reason to kill 1000 Lebanese. So that the "fair game" would be 2 against 1000 .
 
Falcon84
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
It is to be 2/two against approx 20, as I understand from the media.

I don't give a rats' ass about what the media says, MAF: I'm asking you what YOU think? Can you just answer the question, instead of performing a Bayrishnakov around it?
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
what YOU think

I expect it to be a 2 against 35 deal in the end.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
I expect it to be a 2 against 35 deal in the end.

What did the cease-fire deal call for ... do you know?
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Falcon84
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 21):
I expect it to be a 2 against 35 deal in the end.

Well, I guess that proves that an Israeli life is more important than the lives of scum terrorists, eh?

Hey, we agree for once.

But again, if those soldiers were murdered by Hezbollah, the war would be back in if I had anything to say about it.
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BA
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
Because the idea is to have a prisoner exchange arranged, liberating Lebanese civilians who were during years captured by Israeli soldiers and without proof accused to be Hizbullah militia members.

Interesting article about Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails:


The hidden story of Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli jails

Tuesday, Aug. 29, 2006

There are hopes that some of them might still be alive. Many would now be in their 40s. Of the 67 who have been verified as having been transferred to Israel, 43 were in their early 20s or younger.

by Simon Assaf

Israel claims its war on Lebanon was triggered by Hizbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers, and says it holds only two Lebanese prisoners.

Yet a secret list compiled by the Lebanese authorities, and leaked to the Lebanese newspaper al-Safir, has revealed the names of 67 men known to have been kidnapped by Israel and its allies during 18 years of occupation. Thousands of others are missing.


***

The leaked list names those who were witnessed being seized and then identified as having been transferred to Israeli prisons. The majority were seized by Israeli troops or their allies, the right wing Lebanese Forces and Israel's proxy South Lebanese Army (SLA).

The list gives the dates and locations where the men were seized, followed by verification either by witnesses or newspaper photographs of prisoners.

There is no reason given as to why the men were seized, or whether they are alive or dead. The Israelis have refused to discuss the list, and have given no details on the missing people's whereabouts, or the locations of their graves.

Those campaigning for the families of the missing fear they were tortured, then killed inside Israel.


***

The campaign by the families of the missing has embarrassed the Lebanese government. Protests by the families were often attacked by interior ministry police.

Hizbollah, among others, made a pledge to the families that they would try and free the prisoners. This is one reason why they seized two Israeli soldiers. Yet it is the fate of two soldiers, rather than the hundreds and possibly thousands of Lebanese and Arab prisoners, that makes the headlines.

The truth lies somewhere inside Israel's prisons.


More here:
http://www.lebaneselobby.org/News__i...%20held%20in%20Israeli%20jails.htm
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
AeroWesty
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:22 am

Since no one else wants to tackle what the agreement called for, here's the text of Resolution 1701. Quoted below is the only paragraph where prisoners are mentioned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4785963.stm

"Mindful of the sensitivity of the issue of prisoners and encouraging the efforts aimed at urgently settling the issue of the Lebanese prisoners detained in Israel"

Do we know what efforts have been made to "urgently" resolve this issue? It doesn't appear that anything was brought up regarding the Israeli soldiers being held by Hezzbollah.

Unrelated to the prisoner issue, there was something interesting later on:

"10. Requests the secretary general to develop, in liaison with relevant international actors and the concerned parties, proposals to implement the relevant provisions of the Taif Accords, and resolutions 1559 (2004) and 1680 (2006), including disarmament, and for delineation of the international borders of Lebanon, especially in those areas where the border is disputed or uncertain, including by dealing with the Shebaa farms area, and to present to the Security Council those proposals within 30 days"

Has the Secretary General presented to the Security Council proposals for how to deal with the Shebaa farms issue? It should have been presented by now.
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Falcon84
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting BA (Reply 24):

Lebaneselobby.org?

Sure, like that's going to be an unbiased report. Not.
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BA
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Lebaneselobby.org?

Sure, like that's going to be an unbiased report. Not.

You jump at any opportunity to find an excuse, even the lamest excuse. Yet I am sure you would have no problem quoting a thousand Israeli sources which shows how much of a hypcrite you are.

For the record, that website doesn't write up any articles on its own.

They post various articles from different internet sources. If you browse the website's various articles, you will see that they've posted several articles from Israeli sources.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Falcon84
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting BA (Reply 27):
You jump at any opportunity to find an excuse, even the lamest excuse. Yet I am sure you would have no problem quoting a thousand Israeli sources which shows how much of a hypcrite you are.

 rotfl 

Let me see you post a non-Lebanese, non-Arabic shill or group, then I might take you seriously.

What you posted is akin to getting Fox News to give an unbiased report on George W. Bush.

Quoting BA (Reply 27):
For the record, that website doesn't write up any articles on its own.

They post various articles from different internet sources.

And for the record, I'm sure they pick and choose the ones that spin the story the way they want it.
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AeroWesty
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RE: So....When Does Israel Get Back Its 2 Soldiers?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 28):
And for the record, I'm sure they pick and choose the ones that spin the story the way they want it.

How many minutes did you spend looking at the site BA gave? In the 5 minutes I've spent looking at it so far, I found two stories on Bush. One was the text of his address to the U.N., and the other was an A.P. report entitled "Bush says stable Mideast was a mirage".

Perhaps you should read the website before drawing such broad conclusions. Point out the stories on the front page to support your assertions. Plenty of bandwidth here, have at it.

Edit: Correction, there were three on Bush. The other was: "Bush accuses Iran of backing terror, nuclear arms". It's from Reuters.

[Edited 2006-09-23 02:53:10]
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