ANCFlyer
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Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:18 pm

Well, seems as though Rumsfeld's handpicked Chief of Staff, Army, Gen Peter Schoomaker, blew off the August 15th deadline for 2008 Budget submission to Rummy.

Seems Rumsfeld - still trying to do things on the cheap - gave a dollar amount to Schoomaker and told him to develop the FY'08 budget. Seems Schoomaker - doing his job as he should be - is telling Rumsfeld that it's impossible.

Finally -  praise  - someone at the Pentagon has their head out of rectal defilade. Someone - this time a very senior someone - is telling the SecDef he and his demi-Gods on A-Ring cannot continue to press the military (in this case, the Army) in it's current fashion and not fund the troops and equipement . . .

A committee was set up to "discuss" the Army shortfall . . . it agreed with Schoomaker's assessment. Rumsfeld likely set up said committee to discredit Schoomaker - he's known to do that shit.

Well done Gen Schoomaker.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...20.story?track=mostviewed-homepage




http://www.army.mil/leaders/csa/bio.htm
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halls120
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
Finally - - someone at the Pentagon has their head out of rectal defilade. Someone - this time a very senior someone - is telling the SecDef he and his demi-Gods on A-Ring cannot continue to press the military (in this case, the Army) in it's current fashion and not fund the troops and equipement . . .

A committee was set up to "discuss" the Army shortfall . . . it agreed with Schoomaker's assessment. Rumsfeld likely set up said committee to discredit Schoomaker - he's known to do that shit.

Well done Gen Schoomaker.

Concur completely.

Rumsfeld is on the way out. Even if he makes to January 2009, he's losing his iron grip on the Pentagon. The CoS response illustrates this.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:01 pm

In all my years service I've never witnessed General/Flag officers this outspoken in these numbers.

General Officers that once worked with each other, Paul Vallely and Batiste to name a few, in the 1st Cav Division, are on opposite sides of this fence. While that is not unnecessarily amazing, what does bear attention is the simple fact that General Officers (retired, or otherwise) are even breaching the peace in this fashion.

Since Vietnam was before my time, perhaps Slammer could address whether this occured during McNamara's time. It is, however, unprecidented in today's modern military.

That ought to speak volumes - along with the perpetual strategic failings in Iraq - as to Rumsfelds grasp of the Operational Art; more correctly, his lack of a grasp of the Operational Art. Rumfeld is a danger to the DoD and to the men and women that perform vailiantly every day in the face of what can only be described as 'lousy leadership' at Sodom on the Potomac.

Shameful.
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AirCop
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):

Well done Gen Schoomaker.



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 1):
Concur completely.

Rumsfeld was reportably on his way out prior to 9/11 according to articles that I read in the Washington Post during that time period. The President needs to fire him NOW in order to bring order to the operational aspects of Iraq. Quite frankly the men and women that serve (and let me add that ever served) in the military deserve better than Rumsfeld.
 
comorin
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
In all my years service I've never witnessed General/Flag officers this outspoken in these numbers.

Is there a difference between Generals and Flag Officers, or or you using the term to include Admirals etc.

Just curious, and thanks.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting Comorin (Reply 4):
Is there a difference between Generals and Flag Officers, or or you using the term to include Admirals etc.

 checkmark 

Flag Officers for the seafarers (USN, USCG) and Generals for the regular folk (USA, USMC, Scare Farce).
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dl021
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:51 pm

OK...I'm of the opinion that regardless of why Rumsfeld has lost the support of a significant percentage of his officers he needs to be replaced. I told this to ANC last year, but this is getting out of control.

We need to bring in someone who holds the respect of the officers, is tough enough to push the honest view both ways, and will lead by example rather than fiat. Rumsfeld is an efficient administrator, and a former Marine flyer, but he doesn't manage or deliver the message effectively and has left himself open to far too much criticism.

Schoomaker was a Rumsfeld appointee and everyone knew that he was beyond any form of intimidation (not only was he retired and came back for duty's sake but he's one of the few real operators to make it to such high rank...he didn't just serve a tour as an A-team leader...he was an original Delta guy and led the organization twice). Rumsfeld appointed him because he's tough and going to tell the truth. What he has failed to do is coordinate with the man on some things and appears to have fallen into a McNamara trap. He's placing his group of technicians over the soldiers too far.
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174thfwff
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:43 pm

What's good for the Army is that Gen. Schoomaker was asked to come back out of retirement.. So he's obviously in a position where he dosen't need to please anybody but himself.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
comorin
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Flag Officers for the seafarers (USN, USCG) and Generals for the regular folk (USA, USMC, Scare Farce).

Thanks again for explaining!

So Flag Officers/GOs in Commonwealth (UK etc) Services:

AF: Air Commodore, Air Vice Marshal, Air Marshal, Air Chief Marshal
Navy: Same - Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral, Admiral of the Fleet.
Army: add Brigadier (*) and Field Marshal (*****).
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 6):
and a former Marine flyer

Navy Reserve

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 7):
What's good for the Army is that Gen. Schoomaker was asked to come back out of retirement..

What is most damning here is that he was personally hand selected by Rumsfeld . . . when a member of your hand picked team raises the bullshit flag you know there's a problem. A problem that can't be glossed over with Washington rhetoric or double speak . . .

There is no question but that Schoomaker is an exceptionally qualified, no bullshit soldier . . . his credentials speak for themselves. I just don't think Rumsfeld counted on the Schoomaker unfailingly doing his job (ultimately - taking care of soldiers) rather than towing the Rummy Party Line.
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andessmf
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
still trying to do things on the cheap

I have heard you say this before, but never quite explained. Can you give me a quick explanation as to what this means.

Thanks.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 10):
I have heard you say this before, but never quite explained. Can you give me a quick explanation as to what this means.

A quick explanation might do the explanation some injustice - but here goes:

When it was decided to invade Iraq Rumsfeld directed that it be done with as few number of troops and as little equipment as possible. Essentially, the initial plan called for only two Divisions.

That in and of itself is tactically and strategically wrong - as wrong as you can be - in every sense and by every ounce of training. You don't go on the offensive planning to be outnumbered. That is simply wrong. He overruled Gen Tommy Franks, the field commander at the time, on troop strength and equipment needs.

There was no plan to move necessary equipment to the region rather than a decision by Rumsfeld to rely solely on pre-po (pre-positioned equipment) already in Kuwait - insufficient quantity to do the job.

He did not allow a followon plan. He insisted we'd only be in the area a few months.


Here's a couple links for you:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/030407fa_fact1

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2899823.stm
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):

Hey - don't forget that they repeatedly keep shooting down the Warrant Officer Pay Matching.

Warrants make FAR less than their commissioned brethren as one's time-in-service progresses, but we are increasingly being expected to assume "staff and command" positions within the units. We're doing the jobs of officers, but getting just a little over senior non-coms pay rates.

And everytime the program to bring warrant pay closer to commission pay comes up for review?    BOOOOM! They fucking blow it up like a southern boy strappin' an M80 to the back of a bullfrog.

And of course warrants are far to professional to say "Well I'm doing an officers job without officer pay... so fuck it... I'll just do this half ass." Of course not. We just enjoy getting royally ass fucked.

Kinda like the navy when they go on pass or leave.  

-UH60

[Edited 2006-09-27 01:51:43]
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
andessmf
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 12):

Thank you for your insights.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:12 am

It appears as though Gen Schoomaker made a point with this action . . .

Update: The Army asked for and recieved $17.1 Bil for equipment reset (Reset = Replacment of Combat Lost equipment). As well as everything else Gen Schoomaker asked for. Congress approved Gen Schoomaker's budget, not Rummy's.

The tradeoff . . . troops will get only 2.2% pay raise beginning in Jan 07, rather than a 2.7% (I hope that spins PacificJourney right up  devil  ). That means retirees (me for one) will also get a 2.2% raise in Jan. That's the least amount if increase in 12 years.

I think it's a fair trade . . . obviously the equipment has to be replaced. Eighteen Apaches, Seventeen Blackhawks, a dozen Chinooks, a Battalion's worth of M1A1s and a Battalion's worth of Strykers. New Hummers as well - uparmored models, not the fiberglass bullshit ones . . .

That's one thing the Congress has gotten right this year.

Source: Army Times, 9 Oct 06.

A link would be useless, you have to subscribe (and pay) to read the article.
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dl021
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RE: Army CoS Blows Off Rumsfeld Budget

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 6):
and a former Marine flyer

Navy Reserve

thanks for the correction...I was mistaken. He was a Naval Aviator...got that right.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
What is most damning here is that he was personally hand selected by Rumsfeld

He was the fourth or fifth guy they offered the job to, and he was personally recruited by a couple of generals who pulled at his sense of duty.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
The tradeoff . . . troops will get only 2.2% pay raise beginning in Jan 07, rather than a 2.7% (I hope that spins PacificJourney right up ). That means retirees (me for one) will also get a 2.2% raise in Jan. That's the least amount if increase in 12 years.

I think it's a fair trade

I'd agree with you, I just hope that family benefits aren't going to suffer because of this.
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