mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:56 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoRjbIQMXGQ

This is just unbelieveable. This administration doesn't give a shit about anything. I would really like to see the Bush apologists defend this one.

I know what they will do, attempt to attack and discredit the source.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:12 am

In effect he is with the recent bill, at least as to certain war crimes before December 2005 (torture of criminals). I wouldn't be surprised that he does pre-empeted pardons of V.P. Chenny, Sec.Def. Rumsfeld, CIA persons to try to insulate them from war crimes. I believe if any of them try to travel to certain countries after they leave office, they will face substantual risk of being arrested for war crimes to face an international tribunal over their 'War on Terror' abuses.
 
Bobster2
Posts: 1523
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:04 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:18 am

I don't believe that Congress can make retroactive laws. So if they do this, it's unconstitutional. Only the president can grant pardons.

If Bush wants a pardon, he'll just have to wait for Hillary to give him one. Big grin
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 2):
I don't believe that Congress can make retroactive laws.

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Congress did this all the time, example the tax code.

What I don't appreciate is what he did the other day, and tell the President of Aghanistian, that the United States will stand by for another five years. So far he dumped the Iraq war and now this onto the lap of the next President.
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:45 am

Bush will go down in history about one notch above Nixon. I think I said that here over a year ago.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Go3Team
Posts: 3156
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:19 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Congress did this all the time, example the tax code.

Tax Increase a la Clinton, but thats the only one I know about. Then there were the $3xx rebate checks...
Yay Pudding!
 
Bobster2
Posts: 1523
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:04 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Congress did this all the time, example the tax code.

You're right, but the tax code is civil law. Criminal laws cannot be retroactive.

[Edited 2006-09-30 00:57:23]
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 4):
about one notch above Nixon.

So Much Credit?

Nixon's lies hurt campaigns, parties, and people, but IIRC no one died as a result of Nixon's Watergate actions.

If there is going to be an American history beyond the next 100 years, I garantee Bush will go down as the greatest failure of the American Presidency ever.
This space intentionally left blank
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 7):
I garantee Bush will go down as the greatest failure of the American Presidency ever.

The scary part is that he's absolutely convinced that he's doing everything right. Remember during the campaign debates a couple years ago when he couldn't think of any mistakes he'd made?

I'm sort of intrigued how he can be incredibly arrogant and embarrassingly naive at the same time.  scratchchin 

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
cptkrell
Posts: 3186
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:33 am

Doesn't one have to be CONVICTED of something before a pardon can even be considered?

Anyway, I clicked on the link and it was taking too long to download. I noticed Cafferty's name on it and surmised I saved time by not even waiting to read it. Regards..jack
all best; jack
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 1):
I wouldn't be surprised that he does pre-empeted pardons of V.P. Chenny, Sec.Def. Rumsfeld, CIA persons to try to insulate them from war crimes

How exactly can you pre-emptively pardon someone if they haven't been convicted of anything? You can't.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Thread starter):
I know what they will do, attempt to attack and discredit the source.

Cafferty loses credibility as an objective source when he calls folks stooges. If he wants to present himself as a journalist then he shouldn't resort to name calling otherwise he falls into the same category as O'Reily, Olberman, Hannity, and Stuart Smalley as commentators. This view is neither an attack or an attempt to discredit Cafferty but to point out he is not neutral in his opinion.

As for attacking and discrediting...it's not exclusive to the GOP or the Dubya administration. Clinton's crowd was also quite good at it. It occurs on both sides of the aisle. It always has and always will and that doesn't make it right.

All that said, I am amazed at how bold the Bush administration is today with things. I personally couldn't give two shits if they torture some Al Quaida clown down at Gitmo. Hell, bring them straight to the White House lawn and water board their ass.

I disagree that they should be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention but when a court ruling doesn't go your way and you try to bury this piece down into a bill that is going to pass that is pretty low.

Again, both sides of the aisle do it but never have the stakes been this high that I can remember. Also, if you're going to make it retroactive then make it back to some nebulous date in the early 1900s but not the exact date that our world changed and the war against these Islamic goons began. It's just a bit obvious.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 2):
I don't believe that Congress can make retroactive laws.

One can't be charged with crimes that weren't crimes when you did them. But can one be cleared of crimes that were crimes when you did them but aren't anymore?

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
I disagree that they should be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention but when a court ruling doesn't go your way and you try to bury this piece down into a bill that is going to pass that is pretty low.

 checkmark  I hope that the Supreme Court will strike that section down (or at least the retroactive part of it). Hell, I'd even be in favor of the Democrats fillibustering the bill unless that section is taken out. The president is not above the law.

By the way, does anyone have a link to the actual text in the bill? I've tried the House website, but it's down for some reason.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 9):
Doesn't one have to be CONVICTED of something before a pardon can even be considered?



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
How exactly can you pre-emptively pardon someone if they haven't been convicted of anything? You can't.

You'll have to ask fmr President Ford that then. He pardoned President Nixon in Setember '74 and President Nixon had not been convicted of anything.

http://www.chron.com/content/interactive/special/watergate/pardon.html
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 9):
Anyway, I clicked on the link and it was taking too long to download. I noticed Cafferty's name on it and surmised I saved time by not even waiting to read it. Regards..jack

Fine, if you leave out his commentary. What about the facts? Why is he trying to retroactively pardon himself if, by what he says, that the administration has done nothing wrong?
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Bobster2
Posts: 1523
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:04 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):
But can one be cleared of crimes that were crimes when you did them but aren't anymore?

No, not usually. The prohibition of ex post facto law means Congress can neither criminalize nor decriminalize something retroactively. So it works both ways.

But it appears to be a bit complicated, so I'd better leave this to the lawyers.  Smile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: Bush Trying To Pardon Self For War Crimes..sick

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 4):
Bush will go down in history about one notch above Nixon.

Try a few notches below Nixon.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests