AerospaceFan
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Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:21 pm

According to MSNBC, former Secretary of State Colin Powell reveals in a new tell-all book that he tried to warn President Bush against liberating Iraq during an exit interview that occurred after he was terminated by the White House. MSNBC claims that Powell found the President to be "disengaged" during that meeting and that he believes the latter did not appear to know that it was, in fact, an exit interview.

[[EDIT:] The book is a biography of the Secretary of State by Karen DeYoung.]

The report apparently claims that White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card has also attempted to fire Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld.

MSNBC will be interviewing Card later this morning.

As an aside, I might note that MSNBC, a liberal network, appears to be on a full-court press to discredit the Republican Party, having run three consecutive stories tending to show it in an unfavorable light. Prior to the Powell story, the network ran a story claiming that Republican House leadership knew about the Foley e-mail controversy in advance. Currently it is airing a story concerning Bob Woodward's new book, State of Denial. MSNBC is also airing live commentary by Bill Harwood of CNBC, whose seems to believe that the chances for Democratic victory in the forthcoming elections have been increased as a result of these recent events.

[Edited 2006-10-01 14:47:49]
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:25 pm

MSNBC notwithstanding, I don't think I find this a surprise.

Having met Powell, I can say without reservation, he's one of the finest soldiers I've ever met. Even though he rose into the heirarchy of several administrations, he never, ever forgot his roots or 'the little guy'.

So, if he disagreed with the administration and was canned, I find it entirely plausible. Likely in fact.

All that said: Id' like a link please. Source?

[Edited 2006-10-01 14:35:40]
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:27 pm

The source is MSNBC's cable programming, so I cannot link to it.

However, if Powell has a new book, then information concerning it should be available on BN.com or Amazon.com, or similar Website.

[[EDIT:] I was able to find no references to Powell's new book on either of the above-stated sites, nor at http://www.google.com. I will see if I can update this thread if I find further information of relevance to the MSNBC story.]

[[EDIT 2:] The book was not written by the former Secretary of State, but by a biographer, Karen DeYoung. Please refer to an update further in this thread.]

[Edited 2006-10-01 14:50:16]
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TransIsland
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
The report apparently claims that White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card has also attempted to fire Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld.

But then he realised he couldn't, because Rumsfeld wasn't Secretary of State...
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:46 pm

The "tell-all book" in question appears to be a new book not by the former Secretary of State, but by a biographer, Karen DeYoung. The new book is referenced in the following New York Times article stating much of the information reported in the MSNBC story first mentioned above.

See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/01/wa...e088de3af&ei=5094&partner=homepage

The Times story refers to a 76-word excerpt from the book which appears in the Sunday magazine of The Washington Post.

[Edited 2006-10-01 14:50:39]
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Klaus
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
As an aside, I might note that MSNBC, a liberal network, appears to be on a full-court press to discredit the Republican Party, having run three consecutive stories tending to show it in an unfavorable light.

If you actually believe that it took "biased" reporting to make the republican party look like a bunch of morons, there is only one possible cause for it:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
State of Denial

 crazy 
 
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 5):
If you actually believe that it took "biased" reporting to make the republican party look like a bunch of morons, there is only one possible cause for it:

Everyone has an opinion, and for leftists, it seems that every opinion should be against the American government. So much for rational analysis.

While it may be true that the numbers of terrorists are increasing worldwide, the achievements of American policy must not be overlooked. There are now three fewer countries than before who support terrorist actions against the West, and large numbers of terrorist leaders have been killed or captured. These facts are ignored among celebrations of Bush-bashing that is equally insignificant coming from the mouths of journalists it could be from any typical seventh-grader eager to prove himself smarter than those who elected this President to conduct his fight against terror.

[Edited 2006-10-01 17:12:44]
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maury
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:26 am

Poor AeroFanny...all of this bad news about ole Dubya and His Friendz getting reported--out LOUD for gosh's sake!-- just sends him into a lather. But he's such an inveterate pot-stirrer that he can't stop himself from starting a thread about the latest folly.

Hey, you kow what? Turns out the Foley emails were, after all, known to others a while back. And you know what else? Our National Republicanistical Leadership feels that, of all people, they themselves are just the dudes to ferret out the actual truth about this awful, awful thing which we knew about last yeat but have been awfully busy being productive (see: House, Senate records of achievement for this Congress.)

And reporting what people write in books is also OK these days--you know, when neo-fascit pin-up Ann Coulter goes on Fox "News" to bleat and bray about her latest book ("Democrats Are Satanic Spawn"), you sit back in the BarcaLounger and sigh contendedly...what's the diff?

And judging from the way things are starting to fall, you might want to either learn to accept the value of a free(er) press, or...see the doc about upping your nerve-pill 'scrip.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Maury (Reply 7):
And reporting what people write in books is also OK these days--you know, when neo-fascit pin-up Ann Coulter goes on Fox "News" to bleat and bray about her latest book ("Democrats Are Satanic Spawn"), you sit back in the BarcaLounger and sigh contendedly...what's the diff?

I never said it was unacceptable to report unwelcome news, now, did I?

Far be it for me to introduce a straw man to a flame, however, so I'll just say that I appreciate your interest in my approach, even though, from your comments, you seem to misunderstand it by a mile.

[Edited 2006-10-01 17:39:30]
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Falcon84
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
As an aside, I might note that MSNBC, a liberal network, appears to be on a full-court press to discredit the Republican Party

 Yeah sure

Sure, put a disclaimer for all the idiocies happening at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, AF. Typical of you.

And right now, the GOP doesn't need much help in being discredited. Between Iraq, and scandal, they're doing it quite well themselves, thank you.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 3):
Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
The report apparently claims that White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card has also attempted to fire Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld.

But then he realised he couldn't, because Rumsfeld wasn't Secretary of State...

 rotfl 

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):
Everyone has an opinion, and for leftists, it seems that every opinion should be against the American government. So much for rational analysis.

Ah, yes, pull out the old "you're against the government" chestnut. That one to make the "leftists" (great choice of terms, dude) look un-American. Won't work. The war in Iraq, and Bush's bungling on just about everything else are the reasons I'm not for this administration. I'm ever bit for this country, though, which is why I can't stand what these louts are doing to it.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):
While it may be true that the numbers of terrorists are increasing worldwide, the achievements of American policy must not be overlooked.

Yes, increasing the number of terrorists in the world, with out idiotic invasion of a nation that couldn't threaten any one, is quite an achievement.

You are living in such a fantasy world, AF. You're so removed from reality that it's astounding.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9):

Ah, yes, pull out the old "you're against the government" chestnut.

So you're telling me that leftists are not against the U.S. government? Who are they against, then? The military?

Like it our not, there is only one Head of State of the United States of America, and that is the President of the United States, who heads our government. The policies of the government are largely set by the President. That is the reality of the matter. In this context, one cannot simultaneously say that one is against the President and in favor of the government of the United States, except in the abstract.

[Edited 2006-10-01 18:00:12]
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Falcon84
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 10):
So you're telling me that leftists are not against the U.S. government? Who are they against, then? The military?

I am against the policies of George W. Bush and his administration, AF. Now, if you're going to try and paint me somehow as anti-American with that, I'll have more than a few words with you. If you're saying somehow that this is un-American behavior, I'll tell you right where to go, my friend.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
I am against the policies of George W. Bush and his administration, AF. Now, if you're going to try and paint me somehow as anti-American with that, I'll have more than a few words with you. If you're saying somehow that this is un-American behavior, I'll tell you right where to go, my friend.

I said what I said -- that critics of the government are in existence. Further, you cannot separate the President from our government. Now, all these other things you've mentioned, you may note that none of them are stated in anything I've said.
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Falcon84
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 12):
I said what I said -- that critics of the government are in existence.

Yes, and they make up about 60% of the American people right now. You are a bit of a minority, I hope you know.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 12):
Further, you cannot separate the President from our government. Now, all these other things you've mentioned, you may note that none of them are stated in anything I've said.

Often, AF what isn't said, is just as important, if not more so, than what is said.

I'll let that hang out there for you to chew on. I know what you meant, and you didn't deny it. And for that you can kiss my behind.
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11Bravo
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):
Everyone has an opinion, and for leftists, it seems that every opinion should be against the American government.

It's more than a little bit difficult to accept your characterization of "leftists" considering your firmly established position on the extreme right of the American political spectrum. Are the 80% of Americans who are to the left of your political position all "leftists" in your eyes?

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):
There are now three fewer countries than before who support terrorist actions against the West, and large numbers of terrorist leaders have been killed or captured.

What a load of nonsense. What specific countries are you referring to? I sure as hell hope you're not including Iraq and Afghanistan in that category. Both of them have many, many more followers of radical Islam than they did pre 9/11.

As for the number of terrorists killed, that means nothing if in the process of killing one terrorist, you create three or four more to take his place. That is precisely what has occurred as a result of Bush's deeply flawed and naive conduct of the War on Terror. For you to suggest that somehow this utterly incompetent policy implementation constitutes "achievements of American policy" is preposterous.
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texan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):

Everyone has an opinion, and for leftists, it seems that every opinion should be against the American government. So much for rational analysis.

So a "rational analysis" is to call all "leftists" as being against the American government? You are a piece of work...

So I guess since "righties" refuse to even question the government, unless Bill Clinton is in office (remember him, he's the guy who you righties directed your ire at), that everyone on the right is traitorous and complicit in the decline of America? Please. Use common sense. There is a growing number of Republicans who are fed up with the government. There is a growing number of Democrats who are fed up with the government. Your analysis lacks the very characteristic you purport to want: being rational.

Now as for the subject matter at hand, it doesn't really come as a surprise, does it? The media reported rumors about this from the time he left office. People suspected it even if it was not official. Not having read the book, I'm also unwilling to believe everything this biographer says. So we're back to where we started.

Texan
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maury
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:58 am

Wow and gee...looks like I'm not the only one who misunderstands Fanny's positions and methods of communication and motives. Wow and gee.

I'm also still waiting to hear when it became official that Rummy's SecState. That was news to me.
 
searpqx
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
As an aside, I might note that MSNBC, a liberal network, appears to be on a full-court press to discredit the Republican Party, having run three consecutive stories tending to show it in an unfavorable light.



Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):
Everyone has an opinion, and for leftists, it seems that every opinion should be against the American government. So much for rational analysis.



Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 10):
So you're telling me that leftists are not against the U.S. government? Who are they against, then? The military?

So was this thread an attempt to start a discussion about whether or not Powell was 'fired', or a thinly veiled attempt to go off on yet another rant about 'leftists' ? And for the record, exactly what part of reporting current events and news qualifies an outlet as 'liberal'? When it reports anything that's unfavorable to the Admin?
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting Maury (Reply 16):
I'm also still waiting to hear when it became official that Rummy's SecState. That was news to me.



Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
The report apparently claims that White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card has also attempted to fire Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld.

You're right, Maury. I should have said "Secretary of Defense".

Quoting Texan (Reply 15):
So a "rational analysis" is to call all "leftists" as being against the American government? You are a piece of work...

It's hard to deny that leftists are against the government. All you have to do is check any of the numerous blogs that are associated with the Democratic Party, which is out of power and hopes to become the government.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 14):
What a load of nonsense. What specific countries are you referring to? I sure as hell hope you're not including Iraq and Afghanistan in that category. Both of them have many, many more followers of radical Islam than they did pre 9/11.

As for the number of terrorists killed, that means nothing if in the process of killing one terrorist, you create three or four more to take his place. That is precisely what has occurred as a result of Bush's deeply flawed and naive conduct of the War on Terror. For you to suggest that somehow this utterly incompetent policy implementation constitutes "achievements of American policy" is preposterous.

Actually, it is the organized use of terror that is most damaging to the United States. The creation of terrorists is regrettable, but to be surprised at this fact is to overlook the obvious: In times of war, it will always be more possible to stir up certain kinds of passion than in times of peace. Unless you're a pacifist, you would be hard-pressed to deny that this should not be a bar against military action.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Often, AF what isn't said, is just as important, if not more so, than what is said.

In this case, only in your mind.
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Falcon84
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 18):
It's hard to deny that leftists are against the government.

They're against the Bush administration. To be against "the government", which, in my mind, goes beyond any administration, but to the type of government we have, then you're accusing "leftists" (I laugh like hell when you use that word), of being treasonous, aren't you? And there's very few that are liberal, or who are against George W. Bush, who can be accused of that.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 18):
In this case, only in your mind.

Wrong. You know damn well what you were trying to allude to. I'm not buying it.

I guess this puts you so far to the right, you simply can't see straight anymore.

Just remember: YOU are the minority. That group that supports this guy, without question and without fail. You aren't the majority anymore.
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TedTAce
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting Maury (Reply 7):
Poor AeroFanny...all of this bad news about ole Dubya and His Friendz getting reported--out LOUD for gosh's sake!-- just sends him into a lather. But he's such an inveterate pot-stirrer that he can't stop himself from starting a thread about the latest folly.

   Brilliant!!

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
I never said it was unacceptable to report unwelcome news, now, did I?

You didn't use those words....but you sure as heel made it seem like MSNBC is CREATING the news you are talking about.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Far be it for me to introduce a straw man to a flame

  

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
misunderstand it by a mile.

  

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 10):
So you're telling me that leftists are not against the U.S. government?

No, they are not

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 10):
Who are they against, then?

The Righties and their tighty whities.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 10):
Like it our not, there is only one Head of State of the United States of America, and that is the President of the United States, who heads our government. The policies of the government are largely set by the President. That is the reality of the matter. In this context, one cannot simultaneously say that one is against the President and in favor of the government of the United States, except in the abstract.

Humm I recall the exact OPPOSITE being said aobut Abu Grahib.

AerospaceFan, you need to cool your heels for a bit. The problem is we are loosing no matter which party wins. If you are too blind to see that, I pity you.


(on subject)
I'll believe it when Mr. Powell shows up on MTP and affirms the report. Given his history of Republican support and apparent willingess to take the sword for this administration, I don't see it happening any time soon.

[Edited 2006-10-01 22:15:04]
This space intentionally left blank
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
As an aside, I might note that MSNBC, a liberal network,

Wow, I’ve never heard anyone call MSNBC a liberal network before.

In the past few years, they’ve fired Phil Donahue, hired Tucker Carlson, hired Joe Scarborough, and hired Rita Cosby.
I’m not saying the network as whole leans conservative either; FWIW MSNBC has always been criticized in tv land for not leaning one way or the other. If anything they’re the most balanced of the 24 hour news networks.
 
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
They're against the Bush administration. To be against "the government", which, in my mind, goes beyond any administration, but to the type of government we have, then you're accusing "leftists" (I laugh like hell when you use that word), of being treasonous, aren't you? And there's very few that are liberal, or who are against George W. Bush, who can be accused of that.

Well, that's your interpretation. It's not mine.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 20):
You didn't use those words....but you sure as heel made it seem like MSNBC is CREATING the news you are talking about.

That wasn't my intent at all.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 21):
Wow, I’ve never heard anyone call MSNBC a liberal network before.

This is the network of Keith Olbermann, after all. And Chris Matthews. I'm not the first to call it the most liberal of the three major cable news networks.

[Edited 2006-10-01 22:35:03]
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andessmf
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
I am against the policies of George W. Bush and his administration, AF. Now, if you're going to try and paint me somehow as anti-American with that, I'll have more than a few words with you. If you're saying somehow that this is un-American behavior, I'll tell you right where to go, my friend.

Falcon, I would not say you are against the policies of this administration, since from previous threads you seem aware of the threats the Western world is under at the moment. I would say you are against the methods this administration is using to eliminate these threats.

There is a fine line between rightful criticism and treason. I was reminded of this by a certain quote that came to light a few days ago. It said:

To U.S. President George W. Bush, ** questions: “why don’t you tell them how many million citizens of America and it’s allies you intend to kill in search of the imaginary victory and in breathless pursuit of the mirage towards which you are driving your people’s sons in order to increase your profits?

Who does that sound like?

** = Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda second in command.

When the critics of this administration and al-Qaeda sound the same, I personally see a problem.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 20):
but you sure as heel made it seem like MSNBC is CREATING the news you are talking about.

The news is not being created, obviously, but we cant come to a clear conclusion over what happened within a few days of the initial disclosures. So far, we have the basics of this story. The rest is plain hearsay at this moment.
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 22):
This is the network of Keith Olbermann, after all. And Chris Matthews. I'm not the first to call it the most liberal of the three major cable news networks.

MSNBC is not liberal or conservative, they’re MSNBC. Their prime time lineup is the most balanced. period.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 22):
I'm not the first to call it the most liberal of the three major cable news networks.

 rotfl 

All the more reason to not take anything you say seriousy, as if i needed another!
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QANTASforever
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):
leftists

For goodness sake. It's like something out of the Chinese revolution.

If Powell et al are 'leftists' does this make you a 'rightist', a 'lacky of the Emperor'?

QFF
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11Bravo
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 18):
Actually, it is the organized use of terror that is most damaging to the United States. The creation of terrorists is regrettable, but to be surprised at this fact is to overlook the obvious: In times of war, it will always be more possible to stir up certain kinds of passion than in times of peace. Unless you're a pacifist, you would be hard-pressed to deny that this should not be a bar against military action.

It's a lot more than just regrettable. The goal is to have fewer terrorists, not more. The goal is to de-radicalize the Middle East, not push millions more into the arms of the extreme clerics and other assorted nuts.

You act as though the use of military force is an end in and of itself. Military force, like any other policy mechanism, has consequences and inherent limitations. When faced with a situation where the costs out-weigh the benefits, it's probably a good idea to reconsider your course of action.

If you kick a yellow-jacket's nest, you'll probably kill some of them, but you are going to pay a very high price. That you were aggressive and manly enough to kick it in the first place does not excuse the fact that your strategy for dealing with the problem was rash and poorly thought out.

Our invasion and occupation of Iraq has been an enormously effective method in furthering the cause of radical Islam. I'm sure Usama just giggles to himself when he thinks about it. We will all be paying for Bush's mistake for decades. The costs will far out-weigh the benefits.
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mdsh00
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 22):
This is the network of Keith Olbermann, after all. And Chris Matthews. I'm not the first to call it the most liberal of the three major cable news networks.

And your blinding bias just shows here. They are also the network which has Joe Scarbrough and Tucker Carlson. You think they are "leftists" too?

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 21):
If anything they’re the most balanced of the 24 hour news networks.

 checkmark 
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andessmf
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 27):
If you kick a yellow-jacket's nest, you'll probably kill some of them, but you are going to pay a very high price

That is correct, but using your analogy, if you dont kick out the nest, it'll keep getting bigger and bigger, increasing the threat of biting you.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 27):
That you were aggressive and manly enough to kick it in the first place does not excuse the fact that your strategy for dealing with the problem was rash and poorly thought out.

We can all talk about how the current strategy has not worked. But I have yet to hear anyone provide a different strategy to deal with these issues.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 27):
Our invasion and occupation of Iraq has been an enormously effective method in furthering the cause of radical Islam.

Please, they have used many 'reasons' to radicalize themselves, and if Iraq had not been invaded, I am pretty certain another good excuse could have been found. After all, the main recruiting reason used is the 'humiliation' of Muslims around the world, a nice catch all phrase to find out any reason why you have not progressed into the 21st century.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 26):
If Powell et al are 'leftists' does this make you a 'rightist', a 'lacky of the Emperor'?

Are you saying you discourage the use of labels?

a proud 'rightie'
 
santosdumont
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 23):
When the critics of this administration and al-Qaeda sound the same, I personally see a problem.

Word games like that can provide some temporary fun....remember that one about identifying the guy who was a vegetarian, fervent Catholic, and all-around nice person and it turns out to be Hitler?

The problem I myself see is when veteran public servants like Powell join critics of the administration; add to that thought-provoking findings from experienced Washington reporters like Bob Woodward and you have something that unfortunately cannot be explained away by cute anecdotes...

Oh yeah, if anybody's interested in Foley's e-mail exchange with that congressional page it's here:


http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/BrianRoss/story?id=2509586&page=1
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 29):
Are you saying you discourage the use of labels?

a proud 'rightie'

Labels are lazy. As far as I'm concerned, unless labels are witty or humorous they should be avoided.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):
There are now three fewer countries than before who support terrorist actions against the West,

What on earth are you talking about? Iraq was not on the list of State sponsors of Terrorism before the War started (per US State Dept.) . In Afghanistan, the Taliban are growing. I have no idea who you think is the third country is.

Now since then, the more radical elements have come to power in Palestine. Hezbollah made gains in Lebanon, the radical candidate was elected in Iran, Muslim rebels are about to take over in Somalia. Chavez won be an even greater margin than last time by bashing Bush. Pro Bush faction thrown out of office in Spain/Italy/Korea and Blair told to hang it up.
 
AirCop
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 10):
Like it our not, there is only one Head of State of the United States of America, and that is the President of the United States, who heads our government. The policies of the government are largely set by the President.

Do you really think the President is setting policy? I would consider the vast majority of the policy is coming from the Vice-President's office. Were now six years into Bush's presidency, which his lacking of intellectual curiosity is hurting the nation. He can't or won't open his mind to consider opposite viewpoints, he has let the neo-cons get us in conflicts, develop nothing in the way significant legislation for congress to consider to make America a better place. I'm for one that is tired of the constant terror stance that makes his governement. For a president to have narrow intellectual horizons can and has had real consequences. One only has to look at the August 2001 report entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the US". We don't need a government of hate, but one with progessive ideas, and is willing to work with the opposition for the betterment of America.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 32):
What on earth are you talking about? Iraq was not on the list of State sponsors of Terrorism before the War started (per US State Dept.) .

According to the Wikipedia, which is only sometimes a useful source, but is readily available as a starting point of inquiry, the following is true:

(Excerpt)

Quote:
Iraq - Iraq was removed from the list in 1982 to make it eligible for U.S. military technology; it was put back on in 1990. It has since been removed following the 2003 invasion. The State Department's reason for including Iraq was that it provided bases to the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK), the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), and the Abu Nidal organization (ANO). Following the invasion, U.S. sanctions applicable to state sponsors of terrorism against Iraq were suspended on 7 May 2003 and President Bush announced the removal of Iraq from the list on 25 September 2004.

You can do further research on this matter if you desire.

As for your other comments, they omit more than they account for, and suggest the false conclusion that the three countries I mentioned have not renounced terror.

Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._li...ponsors_of_international_terrorism

[EDIT:] See also:

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2000/2441.htm (Iraq and others described as state sponsors of terrorism)

[Edited 2006-10-02 00:40:06]
What's fair is fair.
 
AirCop
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:39 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Having met Powell, I can say without reservation, he's one of the finest soldiers I've ever met

Forgot to add, the Mr. Powell, is one of the most outstanding persons, that I have had the pleasure of meeting and listening to.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 35):
Forgot to add, the Mr. Powell, is one of the most outstanding persons, that I have had the pleasure of meeting and listening to.

I'm quite certain he's a fine person. However, even fine people can be mistaken or can disagree as to methodologies of policy.
What's fair is fair.
 
AirCop
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 36):
I'm quite certain he's a fine person. However, even fine people can be mistaken or can disagree as to methodologies of policy.

Mr. Powell must be the new victim of the Bush adminstration policy if you don't agree with us 100%, we will smear you.
Mr. Powell has served a number of Presidents, including Bush I, never before has he been flamed that he is now. Mr. Powell understands the complexities of the world, which the current President will never grasp. Bush is a man that doesn't read, eschews details, and trusts his gut to make the right decision. I would say the America leadership role in the world is at its lowest ebb since Vietnam, and maybe even lower. Lets hope the President's lack of engagement doesn't lead to a really cataclysmic decision.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 37):
Mr. Powell must be the new victim of the Bush adminstration policy if you don't agree with us 100%, we will smear you.

Where's the smear?
What's fair is fair.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:10 am

Although this being the first time it is reported I dont think this is really news. Anyone who can read between the lines knew or well presumed he was fired. I have met Mr. Powell and have read his book from before he was SecState. I find him to be an honorable man, and a great American. I see him being the one pulling the least on the Bush Puppet strings of the rest of the Administration, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Card and Rove saw him as a dissenter, and should therefore go. I doubt you will see Powell come out to much more against Bush, he did send a letter to McCain a few weeks back over the military tribunals issue in opposition of Bush. He is a damn fine soldier, I wish he would speak out against what went wrong in the decision making process over this war. I have some real problems trusting the Bush Administration in general, but I would vote for Powell in 08, 2012,2016 and 2020, whenever he decided to run.
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:13 am

I stand corrected. The State Department did not consider Iraq as having ties to al-Queda and their map (since removed) indicated this.

http://www.thetalentshow.org/archives/001481.html



All though they did include them for the piss ant reasons, Kurdish rebel groups, providing charity for the families of Palestian bombers...whooo whoo!

Then the 911 Commission found no significant ties between Iraq and World terrorism and found that OBL was actually funding anti-Saddam rebel groups.

So when they were attacked they were not a significant sponsor of terrorism, had no ties to 9/11/, or al-Queda.

But there a sure alot of radicals there now.

So what are these three countries we should be clapping our hands about?



.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 40):
I stand corrected. The State Department did not consider Iraq as having ties to al-Queda and their map (since removed) indicated this.

I appreciate your acknowledgment. On the Internet, it's not always easy to find people who admit when they've been wrong about anything, even though being wrong is a perfectly human trait.

I cannot speak as to whether State removed a map, but I'm not surprised to read that at one point it did not consider that Iraq had ties to Al Qaeda.

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 40):
So what are these three countries we should be clapping our hands about?

Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya.
What's fair is fair.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:26 am

Despite the governments not sponsoring terrorist movements, that we know of

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 41):
Afghanistan

Sure there arent any terrorists there anymore. With the Taliban making a comeback, suicide bombings and a growing poppy cultivation, which im sure none of the drug profits are aiding these organizations.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 41):
Iraq

Yeah ummm sure.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 41):
Libya

Ill give you this one.

I think the point being made, is that the US policies in the middle east currently are motivating young people into radicalism. These folks dont have jobs, minimal education and are often orphaned or have had considerable amounts of thier families killed as a direct result of the actions of the US government. If that was going on in this country, you, me, and most Americans would be full of blood lust against the people who did this.
 
andessmf
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 42):
I think the point being made, is that the US policies in the middle east currently are motivating young people into radicalism.

Excuses, the fact that their own government eggs them on is another reason. Saudi Arabia exporting their own brand of fiery Islam is another. This whole thing that the US is all to blame for their anger doesnt wash with me and neither should it wash with you.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 42):
hese folks dont have jobs, minimal education and are often orphaned or have had considerable amounts of thier families killed as a direct result of the actions of the US government

This sentence is not quite right, are you saying that its the US fault that these kids dont have jobs and have minimal education? That is clearly their own government that has failed them. And their families killed by the US? Where? Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Kuwait, Egypt? Dont excuse the behavior of these people by blaming others for their failures.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 43):
are you saying that its the US fault that these kids dont have jobs and have minimal education?

No, but I will say that us supporting despot leaders in countries full of wealth controlled by the very elite few while others are dirt poor is unacceptable. This is what breeds radicalism. They have nobody else to turn to besides the mosque for help, and the mosque fills them with anti-US BS. All I am saying is that I can certainly see how this happening and I am not surprised by it a bit. Being a 25 year old American, who with a debilitating knee injury would probably be involved in this war, if I were 25 and an Iraqi, I would already be dead from fighting with the insurgency, we fail to realise in this country, that people from other countries are just as loyal as we are as Americans. I dont like this administration and will speak out against it any chance I get, but I do love my country. I feel lucky to be born an American, I know we are a good country, but we do some dumb F*cked up things. I cannot begin to express my frustration of the US support of Saudi Arabia. I think we should have went left and really attack the country that attacked us on 9-11.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 36):
I'm quite certain he's a fine person. However, even fine people can be mistaken or can disagree as to methodologies of policy.

Which explains why he is no longer part of the Administration . . . I'm certain Mrs. Powell played a role in his departure, but she likely was not a deciding factor. Gen. Powell/Sec. Powell is a man of duty and honor. he would not easily abandon his post unless his honor was questioned . . . and we know that to be pretty much the case.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 37):
Mr. Powell understands the complexities of the world,

Better I think than most . . .


Lastly, a smallllll pet peeve here. Colin Powell should be addressed as General or Mr. Secretary . . . it's the appropriate honorific for this man. Mr. Powell does not acknowledge him properly.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AirCop
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
. Colin Powell should be addressed as General or Mr. Secretary . . . it's the appropriate honorific for this man. Mr. Powell does not acknowledge him properly.

I will give you that, although I was hoping back in 2001 we would have been able to call him President Powell.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 46):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 45):
. Colin Powell should be addressed as General or Mr. Secretary . . . it's the appropriate honorific for this man. Mr. Powell does not acknowledge him properly.

I will give you that, although I was hoping back in 2001 we would have been able to call him President Powell.

And there's no question but that I WOULD have voted for him . . .
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Falcon84
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:27 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 47):
And there's no question but that I WOULD have voted for him . . .

Gonna be interesting to hear Gen. Powell chime in once the '08 race for President gets serious. I THINK he'd back McCain, but I'm not positive he'll even back a Republican after the midadventure of this war in Iraq, and how this Administration misused his abilities.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Former Secretary Of State Powell Says He Was Fired

Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 48):
Gonna be interesting to hear Gen. Powell chime in once the '08 race for President gets serious. I THINK he'd back McCain,

I would agree, McCain seems Powell's likely choice . . . Hmmmm, McCain/Powell ticket???

Alma would beat him if he did that.

That would, hoever, be a very, very votable ticket. . . .
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