greasespot
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No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:23 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15102480/


I like how the "get the gov't out of people lives" government have yet again found another way to intrude...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:26 am

I wonder how long this will last, though. There is such a large market, you have to believe it's only a matter of time before it is legalized and taxed.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:32 am

If you were to go to Sports Interaction and fund your account with Neteller, which I'm sure is still legal, as you can pay for a lot of stuff on eBay with Neteller, you can then add the money to your Sports Interaction account and gamble from there. To withdraw it, remove it from Neteller, right back into the old bank account.

I'd be suprised if they were able to stop this type of activity, unless they got Sports Interaction to agree not to allow US Neteller accounts to deposit money.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
Gman94
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:13 am

What exactly is the reasoning behind the so called 'Land of the Free' restricting what their citizens do with their money?

The company I work has never taken bets from US customers so we are pretty unaffected by this but I know some of our exeuctives have spoken about the possibility of been arrested on their trips to the US.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
searpqx
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:17 am

Its the standard (or more accurately, double standard) Puritanical Morality that we display in our public lives at work again. Remember gambling is a sin! (Except in Nevada, New Jersey and on Indian Reservations, or in those states that have chosen to fund basic services through a lottery. Horse and Dog racing excepted. Offer void where common sense and tax revenue apply)
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 3):
What exactly is the reasoning behind the so called 'Land of the Free' restricting what their citizens do with their money?

And what is the reasoning behind your government telling you you do not have the right to purchase a gun with YOUR money and defend YOURSELF should someone break into YOUR home??

THAT logic seems much more dangerous to me than restricting how poeple can throw themselves into debt...at the states burdon.

I am so sick of people from other countries telling us ignorant Americans what big jerks we are and how stupid our laws are. If you don't like it, tough! That's why this is OUR country and not YOURS!
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BAxMAN
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 5):
And what is the reasoning behind your government telling you you do not have the right to purchase a gun with YOUR money and defend YOURSELF should someone break into YOUR home??

THAT logic seems much more dangerous to me than restricting how poeple can throw themselves into debt...at the states burdon.

I am so sick of people from other countries telling us ignorant Americans what big jerks we are and how stupid our laws are. If you don't like it, tough! That's why this is OUR country and not YOURS!

If you think that gambling is more socially damaging than the widespread use of firearms them, err, well, I s'pose it's your country, as you said......

Does seem a bit odd though that hardcore porn of the most peculiar variety is free to see, yet you can't have a game of poker, so I doubt that Congress is really that concerned for the moral wellbeing of The Waltons.

Ulterior motives in force here I suspect. I doubt that the lawmakers would stand in the way of a suitably powerful American company going into the world of online gambling. A loophole can be created when it such a need arises.
I need to get laid
 
baylorairbear
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Greasespot (Thread starter):
If Your American

If my American what?

BAB  Wink
I'm just skipping stones...
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your Ameri

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 6):
If you think that gambling is more socially damaging than the widespread use of firearms them, err, well, I s'pose it's your country, as you said......

The Chief of Illinois State Police said it best in an open letter to Illinos police departments advocating the right to bear arms when he said - The only persons disarmed by gun control are the upstanding citizens. For only upstanding citizens will respect the laws placed upon them. The criminal will always obtain weapons, because they do so illegally, without regard for the law - the law that only the good citizen respects.

It is the truth. Illinois, the only state that still ignores the 2nd ammendment to the constitution, statistically has one of the HIGHEST gun violence rates in the country, despite the fact that the right to bear arms has been effectively eliminated in most respects.
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bushpilot
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 8):

As much as I am a proud gun owner, this thread isnt the place to discuss the merits of an armed society, start that topic and youll get the debate your looking for.

That being said, I can think of about 10 things that should have been higher on the agenda than online gambling. Certainly it can be harmful in certain settings. I am not much of a gambler, especially with money. But there is a certain amount of personal responsibility that comes with gambling. I have a few problems with the law:
Firstly, it was slipped in under a port security bill. This sort of thing happens all the time in DC and it is time for it stop! Only issues that are pertinent to the bill need to be addressed in it.
I am also tired of this black market legislation, it has proven time and time again that it is never effective, and the money spent on enforcement often goes wasted.
It is time for the legislature to figure out what it is that needs to be done to serve Americans.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting Greasespot (Thread starter):
I like how the "get the gov't out of people lives" government have yet again found another way to intrude...

You know this always bothered me. While I wave the centrist flag, I also have an easy time SLAMMING Republicans on social issues. It's hypocrisy unabashed. It's embarrassing. OH yeah, let "people" choose (big business) to do whatever they want with money, but you little guy, no no.. you will not have an abortion, you will not gamble, not will not marry your same sex partner though you are CLEARLY not infringing on ANYONE'S right by doing so, you will not surf porn sites that are otherwise 100% legal, You will NOT make phone calls without us listening 'because we feel like it'. While Democrats are shitty pork pumping money managers, Republicans are just lying hypocritical assholes, and as of late have had pork that makes most Dem's embarrassed.

We as a country should be ashamed of the ride we have let these two parties get away with over the past 20 years. If I didn't believe we could do better, I WOULD leave. The day I give up hope that Americans will turn their back on these parties is the day I pack my bags.

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 5):
That's why this is OUR country and not YOURS!

A little defensive are we? Why can't you plainly say you disagree with his position and yet respect his right to free speech (Johan and the mods permitting)?

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 8):
Illinos

???

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 8):
It is the truth. Illinois, the only state that still ignores the 2nd ammendment to the constitution, statistically has one of the HIGHEST gun violence rates in the country, despite the fact that the right to bear arms has been effectively eliminated in most respects.

WTF are you talking about?? I know I could have brought a gun on SEVERAL occasions in Illinois.
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searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 9):
As much as I am a proud gun owner, this thread isnt the place to discuss the merits of an armed society, start that topic and youll get the debate your looking for.

 checkmark  Please guys, whats happened over in the Amish shooting thread is a disgrace. Don't replicate it here.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:51 am

Steering the debate back on topic (You want to discussion gun control, go start a thread on it.).

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 3):
What exactly is the reasoning behind the so called 'Land of the Free' restricting what their citizens do with their money?

I can name the reasons:

Harrah's Entertainment
MGM-Mirage
Ameristar
Penn National

That's just to name a few. The corporate owners of gambling establishments are threatened by the rise of these off-shore on-line gambling sites. So using their political lobbyists, they've gotten the gov't to put the smackdown on gambling on-line. Plus the states don't get any taxes on these winnings, so they're losing out on their cut as well.

Clamping down on on-line casinos and poker rooms is just going to take things back underground to the local bookie and to folks that run underground casinos and poker rooms. I'm sure the local bookie could care less about some online sports book getting clamped.

There will be ways around this ban (Just like with any other gov't enacted ban), as some US-based on-line casino users already had bank accounts off-shore from which they wagered.

I did briefly a few months back try one of the on-line casinos, and once I lost the money I deposited, I quit. I can see how folks can get addicted to on-line gambling. I was playing at times like I would with a casino program like Hoyle Casino, not caring that I had really lost $25 on a hand. In a regular casino situation, I don't get that way as having those chips in your hand makes you a little more aware of what your are doing. Some folks can't make the realization that this is real money you're playing with on-line, that it's not some computer game where when you run out of chips you can get more with no reprecussions.
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 10):
Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 8):
Illinos

???

I highly doubt you did not know what I was going for there. But if your intelligence is indeed that low, I apologize. What seems more likely to me however is that you are one of those people who never has facts to make a point so instead looks for typos and then calls people stupid  Wink

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 10):
WTF are you talking about?? I know I could have brought a gun on SEVERAL occasions in Illinois.

I never said you cannot buy/own a gun in Illinois. However, you cannot carry it on your person, you cannot transport it loaded. That violates the BARE section of "Keep and bare arms."

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 10):

A little defensive are we? Why can't you plainly say you disagree with his position and yet respect his right to free speech (Johan and the mods permitting)?

I can respond how I wish. I did not insult him or threaten harm, so what matter is it to you the wording I choose?
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AirCop
Posts: 5553
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:55 am

And I suppose there is a loophole big enough to drive a Mack truck through will allow the horse racing and dog racing organizations continue to accept bets via the computer. Didn't the US lose a case in the World Court regarding on-line betting. I thought that Antigua brought action against the US.

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 3):
What exactly is the reasoning behind the so called 'Land of the Free' restricting what their citizens do with their money?

Because the Republican party knows what's best for all of us.
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Because the Republican party knows what's best for all of us.

...You are the liberal's liberal  no 
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TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 13):
However, you cannot carry it on your person, you cannot transport it loaded. That violates the BARE section of "Keep and bare arms."

 redflag 

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 13):
then calls people stupid

I did nothing of the kind. I think you have a little problem with security, no wonder you feel the need to compensate with a gun.
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vanguard737
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 7:02 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 16):
no wonder you feel the need to compensate with a gun.


Hmmm by that logic the United States Congress in 1789 must have been REALLY insecure! Afterall, they found it needed to put their right to "compensation" in the constitution!

 sarcastic 
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AirCop
Posts: 5553
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 15):
...You are the liberal's liberal no

 confused  And last week I was called a homophobic conservative by Ted and this week I'm a liberal's liberal. I just can't win..

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Because the Republican party knows what's best for all of us.

Vanguard you're talking to someone that worked on the Relect-Nixon Campaign (before you were born), Ford in 76, RR in 80 & 84 and George the First in 1988. Since that time I see nothing from the Republican party that the following statement on social issues. By today's standard Barry Goldwater would be a liberal. If he was liberal then I damn proud to be a liberal.

Quoting Greasespot (Thread starter):

I like how the "get the gov't out of people lives" government have yet again found another way to intrude...
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 5):
And what is the reasoning behind your government telling you you do not have the right to purchase a gun with YOUR money and defend YOURSELF should someone break into YOUR home??

Ummm Duh We are Canadians...We like the gov't in our life.....Plus the fact that I am

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 5):
I am so sick of people from other countries telling us ignorant Americans what big jerks we are and how stupid our laws are. If you don't like it, tough! That's why this is OUR country and not YOURS!

Touched a nerve huh.

Oh yeah i never called you ignorant, jerks, or the stupid laws. Just pointed out the hypocrisy when you have Vegas, Atlantic City, Casinos on every singel Indian reservation...etc.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 10):
A little defensive are we? Why can't you plainly say you disagree with his position and yet respect his right to free speech (Johan and the mods permitting)?

Ahem...Him?  wink 

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
And last week I was called a homophobic conservative by Ted and this week I'm a liberal's liberal. I just can't win..

No, that's usually a sign that you're getting it right, err, correct!
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 12):
I can name the reasons:

Harrah's Entertainment
MGM-Mirage
Ameristar
Penn National

Ahh, thank you! Personified as Terry Lanni, Kirk Kerkorian, Gary Loveman, Steve Wynn, and the biggest ******* of them all - Sheldon Adelson.

Online gaming will prevail - legal or not - there is too much $$$ at stake.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
kiwiandrew

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:38 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 9):
I am not much of a gambler, especially with money.

I am curious what else you gamble with ? Other than your life every day when you get into a car and drive to work , I suppose  Wink
 
stlgph
Posts: 8929
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 7):
If my American what?

thank you!

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 8):
Illinois, the only state that still ignores the 2nd ammendment to the constitution,

whatever are you talking about

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 10):
I know I could have brought a gun on SEVERAL occasions in Illinois.

exactly. my family has all kinds of guns.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 19):
We like the gov't in our life.....

Oy! I know I sure don't! They can stay the hell away from me with all of their taxes and crap.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
baroque
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:11 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
There is such a large market, you have to believe it's only a matter of time before it is legalized and taxed.

This has not worked for drugs - yet. Oh, I forgot, alcohol and cigarettes, so yes, maybe that will work!
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 17):
Hmmm by that logic the United States Congress in 1789 must have been REALLY insecure!

Humm considering it was during the American Revolution and there were 1000's upon 1000's of Brittish troops invading on a daily basis trying to infringe on what were their rights, yeah. What that has to do with modern society, I don't know. But maybe all these guns will come in handy when the rest of America decides this government is NOT working. Until then they are MOSTLY just an excuse for us kill eachother over stupid things like money, drugs, and lost love.
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MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:10 pm

Seriously, the firearm discussion.. elsewhere.

Now, back on topic. Being one of those onery, cranky Texas, who just happens to not be christian, yet still stubborn and bullheaded in his ways.. I have to deal with one of those archaic remnants of yesteryear, the The Blue Laws. I don't care if Jesus doesn't want me to buy beer or automobiles on sunday. And no, I really don't care if someone finds it morally improper to gamble. Don't like the idea of people on the governments welfare programs gambling with their income? Make a rule that strikes gamblers from the welfare program, and let me keep gambling with my money. Don't like the idea that people might gamble with their money until they are destitute and have to go on welfare programs? Make another rule, that you can't receive welfare if you had gambling expenses.

It's just that simple. Treat people like adults, and make rules that prevent them from abusing the system if they act like children. I'm sick of our government babying and coddling everyone as if the worthless trash of the world might somehow become productive if we were to just give them enough money and tell them every step of their lives what they can and can't do. If they can't meet muster, we shouldn't keep acting like they will someday.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
vc10
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:11 pm

To get back on the subject , could this anti internet gambling law come about because of pressure from the ground based gambling companies, based in the USA, who do not want to see any gambling money diverted from them.
Just a thought

littlevc10
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
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RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:19 pm

As to 'porn', it is protected by the free speech clauses of the US Constitution, except where it involves persons under 18 years old. Comparisons to on-line gaming are not really valid.
Gambling is highly regulated in the USA for a variety of sound reasons. This is also why on-line/offshore gaming is virtually banned as well.
Many in the USA do not like gambling for a variety of personal and religious reasons. Many also fear that it may encourage the horrible devastation of the finances and persons whom get addicted to gambling. On-line gaming takes away the money in your hand and immediate financial penalties for losing, as well as making it too easy to get deeply into debt.
We don't want minors gaming to protect them and the casinos. One must be at least age 18 to buy lottery tickets or bet on horses/dogs but at least 21 to participate in casino gaming in the USA
Off-shore gaming may not be subject to any regulations in their server domiciles. There is no real guarantee that participants are being treated fairly and honestly.
No legal recourse if get ripped off by these sites.
Off-shore sites are often in place with very little financial regulations, so there is fear of using the sites to transfer funds illegally, including criminal and terrorist organizations.
The owners of these sites themselves may be part of criminal organizations as well and as public policy, the USA doesn't want to support them.
Credit card companies also got burned a number of times of the use of their cards on these sites. Some card holders would run up huge, unpayable debt, causing losses. Some others would claim that they didn't have to pay debt run up on gaming sites as a fraud was committed by the sites. There are laws that protect them that they can choose not to allow the use of their cards at these facilities or cannot do so.
Banks don't want the hassles and possible Federal investigations from the transferring funds to questionable offshore companies or to countries with serious deficiencies of finanical security. This also ties in with the fears of prosecution from the transfers of funds to terrorists, drugs dealers, other criminal organizations. We have strict money transfer laws and they can be used as to these off-shore gaming sites.
Some of these points may explain why we are so against off-shore/on line gaming.
 
jush
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:10 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting Vanguard737 (Reply 5):

And what is the reasoning behind your government telling you you do not have the right to purchase a gun with YOUR money and defend YOURSELF should someone break into YOUR home??

 Yeah sure

nothing to add to this BS

Regds
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:15 pm

Quote:
Congress passed legislation prohibiting the use of credit cards, checks and electronic fund transfers for online gaming.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15102480/

...Then those online ad agencies should get their 'friggin' casino/gambling pop-ups and banner ads off of our websites and computers.

Death to Tribalfusion, Fastclick, Mediaclick, etc...
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 27):
I don't care if Jesus doesn't want me to buy beer or automobiles on sunday.

Actually, Texas law forbids beer cash and carry purchases between the hours of 1:00 am and 12:00 pm on Sundays with a few exceptions. Package Liquor cannot be sold on Sundays. Texas law states an automobile dealership must close 1 day a week. Most choose Sunday.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 27):
Don't like the idea of people on the governments welfare programs gambling with their income? Make a rule that strikes gamblers from the welfare program, and let me keep gambling with my money.

***makes mental note to never help MDorBust if he is down on his luck using his logic

Quoting Vc10 (Reply 28):
To get back on the subject , could this anti internet gambling law come about because of pressure from the ground based gambling companies, based in the USA, who do not want to see any gambling money diverted from them.
Just a thought

See Reply #12 and Reply #21.

[Edited 2006-10-03 17:56:08]
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: No More Online Gambling..........If Your American

Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting Vc10 (Reply 28):
To get back on the subject , could this anti internet gambling law come about because of pressure from the ground based gambling companies, based in the USA, who do not want to see any gambling money diverted from them.
Just a thought

Almost certainly, see some of the previous posts.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 29):
Some of these points may explain why we are so against off-shore/on line gaming.

But the point is, 'WE' are not. I've seen no evidence that there is a huge public outcry against online gambling. Many of your points, while valid, simply require regulation. But instead, as is too often the case, a diverse group of moralists and business interests, working together and quietly, eliminated a threat, before most of the rest of the country even new what they were up to.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"

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