CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:36 am

(Mods - i know this should really be in the North Korea Missile Thread, but it addresses wider issues, and probably needs its own thread - hope thats ok.

Folks - not having a dig at you guys personally, just trying to express my opinion, its nothing personal, ok?)

HOW HAS IT COME TO THIS?

You should all be praying that North Korea doesn’t get the bomb, because there will be people in the US Government advising a pre-emptive strike at that point. It’s been implicitly-threatened enough times. Reading some of the replies here, some of you seem happy with that. You can keep your bird flu, Islamic terrorism, AIDS, and global warming, the thing that really worries me, the thing that profoundly terrifies me, is the prominence of the people who would advise a pre-emptive strike, and even more so, the folks who would stand by and let it happen with their tacit agreement.

You can all then watch on CNN, NBC and the rest, Ohio submarines make North Korea "Cease to exist" as that Congressman said. See the mushroom clouds by podcast. Watch the destruction streamed live from MSN. You "take out" the threat, and kill 23 million people in the twinkling of an eye. The scary thing is how many of you would accept that. Perhaps you’ve joked about it. We’ve seen it in the Middle East. Throwaway, laughing comments about turning some country or other into a vast sheet of glass, or the biggest parking lot on the planet. As if it’s some kind of game.

Nuking North Korea will put the USA up there with Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia in terms of great, woeful, awful wrongs inflicted on this planet. Blame Kim Jong Il all you want, but he can be dealt with, and so can the nuke threat - there is no excuse for using nuclear weapons as a first strike weapon today. The "he started it" routine wont matter when the radioactive dust settles, and the embers of what was an entire nation fade.

Kim Jong Il and his plainly dangerously unhinged political Party want the bomb, because they want a small cigar shaped, roughly six foot long guarantee that US and South Korean troops will not enter North Korea and end their political dream, and take their power from them. When you are cut off from the rest of the world for so long, you become afraid, and I don’t doubt the whole of North Korea are fervently in favour of the bomb as a tool to maintain their Communist ideal. They see the US, Japan, and the rest as the enemy, and are afraid that they will come and murder them in their beds, as North Korean propaganda would be eager for them to believe. Propaganda, fear of the outside world, sanctions, and a repressive and tyrannical regime means that it is "them". They are united in their fear of the US.

Put all the political pressure on you like, they have survived the most severe sanctions the rest of the world can impose, and this has only strengthened their desire to acquire the bomb. They will get it sooner or later, there’s very little anyone can do to prevent that, but to listen to the Hawks in congress, or any of your politicians for that matter (as personally, I cannot see a decent, honourable, and honest one among them) who urge rapid military action, up to and including a "surgical" nuclear strike (a total, evil misnomer if ever there was one) is sheer lunacy.

The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is. The ignorance comes from the time that has passed since the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the memory of such events fades over time. Everyone knows what it is; they just don’t care as long as it’s not on US soil. A Nuclear weapon is not just another bomb. It should not be regarded as just another part of the inventory. It IS a game changer. A game ender. Add a Hollywood arrogance of the awesome military power the USA yields and the ease at which it can dispense with entire nation's military strength in just a few hours of bombing, just like they do in the movies and in the video games, and you have a problem. There are many who understand the true significance of what it means to "nuke" someone (a slang Americanisation, to dumb down the term for what amounts to strategic genocide), but these are too few, and the rest of the civilised world prays that these fine people within the US Government and in wider society can make their voices of reason heard. Your Government is democratically elected, and the men and women who will push that button will do so in your name. Many of you may even be in favour of it. From over here in good old Blighty, that worries us a great deal. Our biggest ally you may be, but you scare us to death. There’s a famous saying – “the fastest way for evil to triumph is for good men to stand by and do nothing”.

I love the US, and I love the people there. Americans are generally kind-hearted, caring people who just want to do the right thing usually. We all have our bad apples, but Americans I meet are good people, and nobody here in Europe can understand how such an evil, corrupt, and mendacious regime as the crooks who are running your Government can speak for all of you. How did that happen? You are good people – doesn’t the fact that the Bush regime speaks for you make you feel queasy? I don’t like Blair, although he is not in the same ballpark as Bush, but I physically cannot stomach the fact that this man is our leader and representative. How the mighty have fallen. We are two great nations run by packs of self-serving liars. The anger over it all is only offset by the awful, plunging realisation that the political opposition are just as bad.

The rest of the world perceives you as greedy, but I think its humanity that is greedy, and the US cannot be judged just because it has, or has the capability to have/buy everything it needs. Americans are fine people - how then, has it come to this? Where some relic dictator, frenziedly trying to glue over the cracks in the crumbling edifice of his own political ideals in the face of the onslaught of human progress and technology, can bring such a nation of genuinely fine people to this? Willing your own country to press the big red button?

Launch nuclear weapons against North Korea, and millions will die. It is possible that not all 23m North Koreans will die, but it’s only the truly desensitised who would argue over how many million would face the white fiery immolation, or the fate of the gaunt, dead-man-walking radiation poisoning victim. The whole Far East will be plunged into Economic crisis, which will spread across the globe like a poisonous cloud, and recession will grip the Globe. We know this. It’s not even debatable. The world will recoil in horror at the sudden, blinding genocide far in excess of anything seen in modern times, and fully comparable with that perpetrated by the Nazis in Germany, Pol-Pot in Cambodia, and Stalin in Russia. If you remember, "they were a threat, and we have eliminated that threat for the good of our security and the good of our people" is a hauntingly familiar rhetoric. We all have a problem with the Arab/Muslim world right now, but wipe out North Korea and you may find a cataclysm of recrimination and hate that will make the current problem look like a minor PR issue. Doesn’t that scare you? Think of us, poor, gutless UK, totally at the behest of the US, and your tattletale lapdog in Europe. Do we deserve the backlash you will incur? No, but it will come nonetheless.

I’ve ruminated enough. When you watch your retired three-star General on CNN tonight, sabre-rattling about “a likely response” to North Korea’s planned missile tests, please know that this is one Americaphile who is praying that North Korea does not get a nuclear warhead, because if it does, and the Hawks in the White House are not listened to.

Rgds,

CHRISBA777ER
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Falcon84
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:38 am

Translation: make a lot of noise, but don't dare do anything! But if HE fires a missle, it's your fault anyway.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
LHMark
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:38 am

There will not be a pre-emptive strike. It could be used as a pretext to invade South Korea, and the US military is too extended in "other ventures" to successfully combat something like that short of using nukes.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
futureualpilot
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
You should all be praying that North Korea doesn’t get the bomb

I, for one, am hoping that they do not develop said weapon(s), nor do I know anybody who is hoping that they develop that kind of weampon.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is.

Your gross over generalization of America's youth is much to your detriment, as IMO, it discredits your post...perhaps you should say that the younger generations have been influenced by, however speaking as one of those "raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda." Given your post you assume to have a bead on the pulse of our youth, however I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the people my age whom I have met and gotten to know, are not constituted of hate and ignorance, and everybody I have met has their own opinions about these subjects, ranging from "turn the Middle East into a parking lot" to "lets peacefully and democratically solve these problems. I cannot think of one person that I know who "hates blindly", much less hates at all. Again, do not stereotype and generalize the U.S., especially today's youth. We have plenty of bad apples, but I have seen, and am surrounded by many of the brightest minds, and best people I have ever met.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The rest of the world perceives you as greedy, but I think its humanity that is greedy, and the US cannot be judged just because it has, or has the capability to have/buy everything it needs.

Agreed, and for the most part...we are greedy. That is part of how the US is where it is today as a country, both good and bad.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Launch nuclear weapons against North Korea, and millions will die. It is possible that not all 23m North Koreans will die

So, let me say then, hypothetically, if N. Korea nukes one of our major metropolitan areas, kills potentially millions of Americans, are we to do? Sit with our thumbs up our asses and say golly gee, that was rude! F*ck no! I do not judge the North Korean people by there leadership, and I would hate to see them erased from the planet, but if push comes to shove, you are damn right I wouldnt have a problem with the United States firing back, and then some.
Life is better when you surf.
 
searpqx
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:12 am

Threre are militaristic hotheads everywhere, including in the UK, who will always call for the most aggresive military response possible to anything. Yes, they are louder over here lately, but your over generalization not withstanding, they don't control the government.

In todays environment, its likely the only way physical force will be used against N Korea is if they explode a bomb outside their borders. Should that happen, then yes, Pyongyang will likely cease to exist.

Beyond that, the US will continue to use harsh rhetoric, while pusing China, Russia and our allies in Asia to step up to the plate and control this crisis.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 3):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is.

Your gross over generalization of America's youth is much to your detriment, as IMO, it discredits your post...perhaps you should say that the younger generations have been influenced by, however speaking as one of those "raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda." Given your post you assume to have a bead on the pulse of our youth, however I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the people my age whom I have met and gotten to know, are not constituted of hate and ignorance, and everybody I have met has their own opinions about these subjects, ranging from "turn the Middle East into a parking lot" to "lets peacefully and democratically solve these problems. I cannot think of one person that I know who "hates blindly", much less hates at all. Again, do not stereotype and generalize the U.S., especially today's youth. We have plenty of bad apples, but I have seen, and am surrounded by many of the brightest minds, and best people I have ever met

If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.

Are you serious??
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 3):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Launch nuclear weapons against North Korea, and millions will die. It is possible that not all 23m North Koreans will die

So, let me say then, hypothetically, if N. Korea nukes one of our major metropolitan areas, kills potentially millions of Americans, are we to do? Sit with our thumbs up our asses and say golly gee, that was rude! F*ck no! I do not judge the North Korean people by there leadership, and I would hate to see them erased from the planet, but if push comes to shove, you are damn right I wouldnt have a problem with the United States firing back, and then some.

No, you miss my point completely. If one has a nuclear attack on your homeland, you respond in kind.

Its a PRE EMPTIVE strike i'm complaining about.

Big difference.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 6):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.

Are you serious??

I didnt say it was all of them, and lets be clear on this - 75% of the members are young Americans under the age of 30. Read through the multitude of Iraq/Afghanistan/9/11/Korea/Axis of Evil/Terror Threats posts and you'll see what I mean.

A vociferous segment i'm sure you'll agree.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
halls120
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
Translation: make a lot of noise, but don't dare do anything! But if HE fires a missle, it's your fault anyway.

 thumbsup  Good job, Falcon. Captures the post perfectly.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.

You really think you are going to get a true representative sample of youth opinion in the US from reading Anet posts???? You've got to be kidding!!!!
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 4):
Threre are militaristic hotheads everywhere, including in the UK, who will always call for the most aggresive military response possible to anything. Yes, they are louder over here lately, but your over generalization not withstanding, they don't control the government.

A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

Big words.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
If canvassing opinion from the US members of A-net is not indicative of US Youth Opinion, then I am sorry - my mistake.

You really think you are going to get a true representative sample of youth opinion in the US from reading Anet posts???? You've got to be kidding!!!!

Why not? The posts and from US citizens, who happen to be youths. Wheres the problem?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:29 am

I doubt North Korean would be dumb enough to launch a atom bomb at the US (though never say never), and even if they did, I bet it'd land in the Pacific ocean.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
Its a PRE EMPTIVE strike i'm complaining about.

A pre emptive attack ?, the USA would be hunted down and hung if they launched a attack of any form on North Korea, you must remember, that the U.S most likely NOT use a nuclear weapon, you seem to be assuming they will. The cold war ended, if the U.S were to launch a nuke, it'd trigger another one, I doubt America wants that.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
You should all be praying that North Korea doesn’t get the bomb

But they already have it, it's just they haven't tested it yet.

Wrightbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
andessmf
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):

Its a PRE EMPTIVE strike i'm complaining about.

I have never heard or seen any evidence of a pre-emptive strike against North Korea. The only ones who keep saying this are the NKs themselves. Perhaps to justify their nuclear ambitions. And now you are using their line.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
They hate blindly because they are compelled to

That is a perfect qoute that you, my friend, are the one who has fallen for the propaganda. Such generalizations are not worthy of any serious conversations.

Plus, if you read it more, there are many other countries that are more concerned about North Korea than we should be. That is South Korea, Japan, and China. China does not want either of the two other countries to get Nuclear Bombs as a deterrent against North Korea. That is the arms race you should be worried about, not trying to sound it like the only one who has a problem with NK is the US.
 
halls120
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
Quoting Searpqx (Reply 4):
Threre are militaristic hotheads everywhere, including in the UK, who will always call for the most aggresive military response possible to anything. Yes, they are louder over here lately, but your over generalization not withstanding, they don't control the government.

A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

Big words.

Stupid words, to be exact.

However, if we were capable of destroying the same nuclear missle - using conventional weapons - would you object? Or do we have to take the first shot before we react?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Jalto27R
Posts: 841
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that�s what your media says being Patriotic is. The ignorance comes from the time that has passed since the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the memory of such events fades over time.

What in God's name are you talking about? If you knew anything about the current state of youths like myself, you would know that the much larger portion of it has a very liberal, peaceful view of things. At best, they hate government in general, and at worst, they just don't care. To say that today's youth are a bunch of gung-hoe MTV watching idiots is INSANE! I mean..who even watches MTV anymore? And Fox News? You must be kidding me. No kid my age watches Fox News. Their main source of news is the Daily Show, a far far cry from Fox News. Get your facts straight.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
I’ve ruminated enough.

Well, at least you got this part right. . . .  sarcastic 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
LHMark
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am

You know, I think it's been about a year and a half since we've seen the expression of condescencion toward the people of the US from a native of another country at this high a level. Thank you, dad, for patting us on the head and setting your ignorant kids straight. Pompous.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
IFEMaster
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:47 am

Perhaps take a look at the various stands of the UN, the British Government, the Japanese Governement, the Chinese Government, the Russian Government on this very same issue before making a specifically pointed generalization about the United States. The Bush administration is far from being alone in it's concerns of Pyongyang's stance on nuclear arms activity.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 18):
Perhaps take a look at the various stands of the UN, the British Government, the Japanese Governement, the Chinese Government, the Russian Government on this very same issue before making a specifically pointed generalization about the United States. The Bush administration is far from being alone in it's concerns of Pyongyang's stance on nuclear arms activity.

Exactly. Japan is (rightly) actually THE most concerned country about North Korea's nuclear threat. I'd have no problem if Japan took out North Korea's nuclear weapon launch capability if North Korea decides to "test" a few more missiles over Japan's airspace.

Your "open letter" is both patronizing and wrong in so many areas. Nobody would advocate preemptively "nuking" North Korea. That's completely ridiculous. But it's good to see that you've bought into the "Dear Leader's" propoganda.

Preemptively blowing up North Korea's launch capability? Maybe. But trust me, it wouldn't be the US going it alone.

Hee. Fox News and MTV. Wow, you've got us pegged. I felt like you KNEW me, even though we've never met.
 
Pope
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
because there will be people in the US Government advising a pre-emptive strike at that point

Ummm. It wouldn't just be people in the current government. The former Sec. Def under Pres. Clinton and his deputy wrote an op-ed piece to the Washington Times and Time magazine advocating exactly that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/06/21/AR2006062101518.html

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1211527,00.html
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
NWA742
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance. They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is.



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Why not? The posts and from US citizens, who happen to be youths. Wheres the problem?

Wow. Grow a brain and get back to us, please.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
DrDeke
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 21):
Wow. Grow a brain and get back to us, please.

What, is there a problem with the Americans on a.net? Do their opinions and views count less than those of non-a.net reading Americans?

-DrDeke
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Nuking North Korea will put the USA up there with Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia

There is no chance that the US will nuke North Korea, don't worry about that.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
the thing that profoundly terrifies me, is the prominence of the people who would advise a pre-emptive strike

A pre-emptive strike on their bomb making facilites would be great. Hell, give me a plane, I'll run over there and do it for everyone. As long as none of the possible bombs that would be thrown at North Korea don't trigger a nuclear explosion causing the anhillation of the North Koreans, then I'm all for it. I don't see a problem with some bombs that will set their nuclear capabilities back 20 years. Kim Jong Il is one scary man as it, to both North Koreans and the rest of the world as it is, I don't want to see North Korea with a nuke, ever.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
NWA742
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 22):
Do their opinions and views count less than those of non-a.net reading Americans?

Wow, talk about missing the point. CHRISBA777ER is labeling and generalizing the entire youth population of the US, and that's beside the fact that he's only using A.net members in an attempt to represent millions upon millions of young Americans, and to top it off, not providing any kind of logical backing of his claims whatsoever.

Did you actually need that spelled out for you?





-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 3):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):

No, you miss my point completely. If one has a nuclear attack on your homeland, you respond in kind.

Its a PRE EMPTIVE strike i'm complaining about.

Big difference.

No, I understood your point, but I did not address it, for which I do apologize. I wonder why you are so worried a pre-emptive nuclear strike on N. Korea by the US. If you would not mind citing some specific reasons for said concern, I'm sure it would be much appriciated. I wonder, pray tell, what would be wrong if either the US, or NATO were to pre-emtpivley strike North Kroea's nuclear facilities?

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Why not? The posts and from US citizens, who happen to be youths. Wheres the problem?

True, but I am doing my best not to generalize millions of people. I am speaking for myself, and on behalf of a select few people with whom I have discussed this matter, thus I am aware of their opinions.
Life is better when you surf.
 
cairo
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Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:28 am

CHRISBA777ER, America isn't going to use nuclear weapons on North Korea, unless, possibly, North Korea uses them first. It just won't happen and besides, there is plenty of conventional weaponry available (or available for purchase) to effect a regime change in the grand tradition of Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc...

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
bird flu, Islamic terrorism, AIDS, and global warming,

Yes, these may all be overblown scare tactics or may be seen as such eventually. The government; all governments, get more power with each new fear they can create - and the media happily plays along. 9/11 gave Bush so much fear material to use on the American people that he repeats 'terrorism' and 'September 11th' dozens of times a day, as if he is addicted to the power instilling fear in the public gives him. People are stating to wake up, though.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is.

Definitely true on September 12, 2001, but this is gradually changing and many Americans have gotten over their initial reaction. Many are actually trying to understand points of view besides their own. But, yes, there are still some who are happy to support a fight, anytime and anyplace that the president says is necessary, without looking into the president's motives.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Your Government is democratically elected, and the men and women who will push that button will do so in your name.

Some argue that everyone gets the government they deserve, and I think this is more or less correct. If Americans were unhappy enough with Bush's policies they could force him from office anytime...

---
A long term implication of your speach is this: America will, sooner or later have to learn how to get along wtih nuclear powered enemies - like it did with the Soviet Union for 40 years.

Cairo
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance

If you think there's a measurable overlap of viewers of these two networks then you're obviously starting the whole thing with a gross misunderstanding of the US.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
They hate blindly because they are compelled to, at the faceless terrorist menace that stalks them from the shadows, and because that’s what your media says being Patriotic is.

Confirms the gross misunderstanding of the US here.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
You should all be praying that North Korea doesn’t get the bomb, because there will be people in the US Government advising a pre-emptive strike at that point

Last time I checked, they've had the bomb. They(and the rest of the world) aren't quite sure if they've got it right though.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

And this Democrat would be part of the evil Bush regime?

Here's some food for thought? What if a pre-emptive strike were launched to eliminate/delay NK nuclear capabilities using conventional or semi-conventional(i.e. MOAB or bunker buster) weapons? Would this be a bad move in your view?

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Think of us, poor, gutless UK, totally at the behest of the US, and your tattletale lapdog in Europe. Do we deserve the backlash you will incur? No, but it will come nonetheless.

What a crock of sh*t. btw, many of the fundamental structural problems in the mideast (certainly not all, the US and other countries have dicked it up well at times too) are results of botched British policies and actions in the past. Do we deserve the problems/backlash we are currently receiving? The truth is that we both do and we're working it together as a team not as master and lapdog. You need to work on your self image a bit.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
aerobalance
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:50 am

Jong Dong VLXXXVII can rattle his sabres all he wants, God help him if he pushes a certain button...
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
the people who would advise a pre-emptive strike,

Like Me?

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Watch the destruction streamed live from MSN

That would be nice. A good excue for dodging work..

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Nuking North Korea will put the USA up there with Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia in terms of great, woeful, awful wrongs inflicted on this planet

Ok, If NK tests a nuke we should test a nuke on their soil, but that's it. I'm not into the idea of bombing them into oblivion (at least not with nukes), just showing them that their knowledge has a VERY high price, preferably at their test site while their scientests are there still reviewing the test data.

If dominance of NK is what we want to accomplish, then I suggest an airborne conventional conflict only. But there is no way we should allow them to do a nuke test with out them gettig a FULL apreciation for what a nuclear weapon will do to their nuclear test range.
This space intentionally left blank
 
diamond
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:14 am

It is perfectly understandable to have great fear of a nuclear attack of any kind, let alone a pre-emptive one.

But as LHMark and others have said, it's not going to happen. Yeah, it's entirely possible that North Korea will successfully test a weapon. But I cannot imagine us launching a nuclear strike against them first.

I could see us using conventional bombs to interrupt their test or take out their bomb-producing facilities.

I am no fan of our current president and his team. It would be too easy to suggest that he would do something stupid just because he is not well liked.

I also agree with others that a nation of almost 300,000,000 people is being judged pretty harshly as 'hawks' because of some clumsy moves in the Middle East and Iraq.
Blank.
 
Dougloid
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:22 am

With all due respect, Chris, you should be talking to the North Koreans. If they get the bomb it's because they want it-bad.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Kim Jong Il and his plainly dangerously unhinged political Party want the bomb, because they want a small cigar shaped, roughly six foot long guarantee that US and South Korean troops will not enter North Korea and end their political dream, and take their power from them. When you are cut off from the rest of the world for so long, you become afraid, and I don’t doubt the whole of North Korea are fervently in favour of the bomb as a tool to maintain their Communist ideal. They see the US, Japan, and the rest as the enemy, and are afraid that they will come and murder them in their beds, as North Korean propaganda would be eager for them to believe. Propaganda, fear of the outside world, sanctions, and a repressive and tyrannical regime means that it is "them". They are united in their fear of the US.

Sympathy for the devil, Chris. If Kim Jong Il and his crew vanished tomorrow your entire argument would evaporate as well, because it's a fucking police state. The North Koreans cut themselves off from the rest of the world-they did that on their own.

And I'm not one of those pimply faced adolescents raised on MTV and McCheese that you're going on about-I grew up in a fairly normal home without a television and I had to go down the block to see Pinky Lee.

However, there is room for hope. If the North Korean bomb performs like the Long Dong Daddy, they'll be busy cleaning up the mess for a long time.

As regards what we think about the North Koreans and their nutjob leaders, I'd paraphrase Lawrence Ferlinghetti and say we do not hate the North Koreans, we merely have no use for them.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
When you are cut off from the rest of the world for so long, you become afraid,

They made a CHOICE to be isolated. It wasn't by happenstance. They chose to be loners, and a loner with a weapon like that scares me.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Nuking North Korea will put the USA up there with Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia in terms of great, woeful, awful wrongs inflicted on this planet. Blame Kim Jong Il all you want, but he can be dealt with, and so can the nuke threat - there is no excuse for using nuclear weapons as a first strike weapon today.

And who do you take your angst out on if the DRPK launches one against Siberia? Or Japan? Or South Korea? Do you blame the U.S. for that, too? You seem to have loud words about telling us not to use a nuke in a first strike-which won't happen-but what if this nut does it? You don't think the North has forgotten age-old mistreatment by Japan? Or the war against the South? They haven't, and they'll exact revenge if they think it's in their interest.

Then, if that happens, let's see what big, bad words you have.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Put all the political pressure on you like, they have survived the most severe sanctions the rest of the world can impose, and this has only strengthened their desire to acquire the bomb. They will get it sooner or later

Political pressure, without anything to back it up, Chris, equates to hollow threats. And in this game, the threat towards the North-telling them in unmistakable terms "you WILL be destroyed if you launch a nuclear weapon from your soil", has to be that-unmistakable, and not a hollow threat.

And they haven't "gotten it" in the last 50 years. When do you suppose they will? In 50 more? I doubt it.

As for your rant against Americans? That can stand on it's own as utter ignorance.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
MDorBust
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

Big words.

Seems awfully unpre-emptive there. Seeing as how the statement is conditional on a North Korean launch.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
KingAir200
Posts: 668
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:23 am

Thinking that young Americans are generally hateful is completely false. I don't know that many kids that watch MTV and I sure as hell don't watch Fox News. Fox News and it's conservativeness even seems to be a running joke amongst some of my friends.
 
mdsh00
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

Big words.

Who cares what she says? In the end, it is the president who makes the very final call for a nuclear strike. I can guarantee you the chance would be next to none that even Bush would launch a pre-emptive strike.

Kim-Jong Il, I don't know about him. What if he managed to launch one into South Korea or Japan?

--------

I think you tried to come off with a well thought out "letter" which crashed and burned with your generalization about young Americans. Any statistician can tell you that you can't make an accurate hypothesis with a small sample size. And yes, Americans on A.net are a very small representation of 300 million people. Especially when an overwhelming majority of users are, I dunno, men. Yes, some of our teenagers do live in a state of bliss, but what 15 year old really cares about all this stuff? I assure you that young Americans aren't simpletons.

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 27):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):Think of us, poor, gutless UK, totally at the behest of the US, and your tattletale lapdog in Europe. Do we deserve the backlash you will incur? No, but it will come nonetheless. What a crock of sh*t. btw, many of the fundamental structural problems in the mideast (certainly not all, the US and other countries have dicked it up well at times too) are results of botched British policies and actions in the past. Do we deserve the problems/backlash we are currently receiving? The truth is that we both do and we're working it together as a team not as master and lapdog. You need to work on your self image a bit.

Exactly, one could write a novel about the trouble that the British Empire left in it's wake, with Iran and India/Pakistan being whole chapters in itself. But what's done is done. Everybody is guilty.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
You really think you are going to get a true representative sample of youth opinion in the US from reading Anet posts???? You've got to be kidding!!!!
Why not? The posts and from US citizens, who happen to be youths. Wheres the problem?

Well. How about the fact that the small slice of American youth that post on Anet can hardly be regarded as a representative statistically accurate sample of all American youth.

And I'll ask again. If we were capable of destroying a North Korean nuclear missile - using conventional weapons - would you object? Or do we have to take the first shot before we react?

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 22):
Quoting NWA742 (Reply 21):Wow. Grow a brain and get back to us, please.
What, is there a problem with the Americans on a.net? Do their opinions and views count less than those of non-a.net reading Americans?

See above, please.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AGM100
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Launch nuclear weapons against North Korea, and millions will die

Most of the world underestimates the conventional striking power of the US. Their would be no reason to use Nukes against NK or Iran. But we CRAZY Americans can only hope ! If you want something done about NK why dont you start pushing your government to do something. Thats what we do .. we write letters to congress , call talk shows right editorial pages for our news papers... come on .. step it up.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
The problem is compounded by a new generation of Americans, raised on a diet of MTV and Fox News propaganda, who have a lethal combination of hate and ignorance.



Thank you , we only have more universities than the combination of 10 countries . More kids attend school here every year than anywhere maybe other than China. We have GREAT kids in America ! Not all of them but a vast majority are the best in the world. FREE , RISK TAKERS ,AND OPEN MINDED. I am sick of the cheap shots from the people like you about our culture ans society.

I love the European cultures and have much respect for them , not all of it but I can distinguish between good and bad. You dont see us posting head shots like that ..
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
sprout5199
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:26 am

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

Am I missing something? If the missile is TEN feet off the ground then it has been LAUNCHED!!! So why is everyone thinking about first strikes in this quote?

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Add a Hollywood arrogance of the awesome military power the USA yields and the ease at which it can dispense with entire nation's military strength in just a few hours of bombing, just like they do in the movies and in the video games, and you have a problem.

No you have a problem. The US military is not Hollywood, and its not a video game. It may seems like it to those who do not know. The Generals and Admirals who command the nuclear forces know better than anyone else what would happen if we used one. And the repercussions of using one. The talking heads on tv are just that-talking heads. If they were any good at command they would be in the field not on tv. When was the last time you saw CinCPAC on tv doing an interview about NK?

The US will NEVER do a nuclear first strike. I think even if the Pres(any Pres) ordered one there would be a coup right then and there. But on the same token, the same Generals would launch a retaliatory strike if we were attacked with nuclear weapons.

Dan in Jupiter
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:25 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 29):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
the people who would advise a pre-emptive strike,

Like Me?

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Watch the destruction streamed live from MSN

That would be nice. A good excue for dodging work..

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Nuking North Korea will put the USA up there with Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia in terms of great, woeful, awful wrongs inflicted on this planet

Ok, If NK tests a nuke we should test a nuke on their soil, but that's it. I'm not into the idea of bombing them into oblivion (at least not with nukes), just showing them that their knowledge has a VERY high price, preferably at their test site while their scientests are there still reviewing the test data.

If dominance of NK is what we want to accomplish, then I suggest an airborne conventional conflict only. But there is no way we should allow them to do a nuke test with out them gettig a FULL apreciation for what a nuclear weapon will do to their nuclear test range.

Ladies and Gentlemen - i give you - The vociferous advocator.

Is TedTace alone? Is he one in a million in his opinions?

You can all give me your self righteous "you dont know me" teenage angst thing, but I'm just calling it as I, and a very large proportion of the UK, nevermind the rest of the world, see it.

If this is what we see, then perhaps it is you who need to sort out your image.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:28 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 31):
With all due respect, Chris, you should be talking to the North Koreans. If they get the bomb it's because they want it-bad.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Kim Jong Il and his plainly dangerously unhinged political Party want the bomb, because they want a small cigar shaped, roughly six foot long guarantee that US and South Korean troops will not enter North Korea and end their political dream, and take their power from them. When you are cut off from the rest of the world for so long, you become afraid, and I don’t doubt the whole of North Korea are fervently in favour of the bomb as a tool to maintain their Communist ideal. They see the US, Japan, and the rest as the enemy, and are afraid that they will come and murder them in their beds, as North Korean propaganda would be eager for them to believe. Propaganda, fear of the outside world, sanctions, and a repressive and tyrannical regime means that it is "them". They are united in their fear of the US.

Sympathy for the devil, Chris. If Kim Jong Il and his crew vanished tomorrow your entire argument would evaporate as well, because it's a fucking police state. The North Koreans cut themselves off from the rest of the world-they did that on their own.

And I'm not one of those pimply faced adolescents raised on MTV and McCheese that you're going on about-I grew up in a fairly normal home without a television and I had to go down the block to see Pinky Lee.

However, there is room for hope. If the North Korean bomb performs like the Long Dong Daddy, they'll be busy cleaning up the mess for a long time.

As regards what we think about the North Koreans and their nutjob leaders, I'd paraphrase Lawrence Ferlinghetti and say we do not hate the North Koreans, we merely have no use for them.

At last - a sensible response.

I agree with what you say Doug.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 34):
Thinking that young Americans are generally hateful is completely false. I don't know that many kids that watch MTV and I sure as hell don't watch Fox News. Fox News and it's conservativeness even seems to be a running joke amongst some of my friends.

No i didnt say that - stop misquoting me.

I said you hate what you are told to hate.

You hate Islamic terrorists for example. You dont see their viewpoint, you dont try to understand, you just blindy hate - and given what you guys have gone through thats completely understandable.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:33 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 33):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
A quote from anoother thread - "In January 2004, I met face-to-face with Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) who sits on the Committee on International Relations. The subject of North Korea came up. Her response "If North Korea even gets a nuclear missle ten feet off the ground, they will cease to exist."

Big words.

Seems awfully unpre-emptive there. Seeing as how the statement is conditional on a North Korean launch.

Or a TEST launch.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:37 pm

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 35):
I think you tried to come off with a well thought out "letter" which crashed and burned with your generalization about young Americans. Any statistician can tell you that you can't make an accurate hypothesis with a small sample size. And yes, Americans on A.net are a very small representation of 300 million people. Especially when an overwhelming majority of users are, I dunno, men. Yes, some of our teenagers do live in a state of bliss, but what 15 year old really cares about all this stuff? I assure you that young Americans aren't simpletons.

Like i said before - it how we see it.

If there really is a big peace/appeasement/anti nuclear lobby amongst the non-apathetic youth of America, it needs to be much more vociferous. All we hear is "nuke em" - surely then the issue lies with how the world perceives you and your people as a nation, and not your own personal views.

At the end of the day, democracy or not, your views only count at polling time, and its George W Bush's views that are key to this issue.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:41 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 39):
but I'm just calling it as I, and a very large proportion of the UK, nevermind the rest of the world, see it.

And who appointed you as spokesman for everyone else?

If people do indeed see things as you say, then the greatest irony of the post is the comment about ignorant young Americans, since it is palpably clear that a large proportion of the UK, never mind the rest of the world, know very little about America.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:47 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 36):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
You really think you are going to get a true representative sample of youth opinion in the US from reading Anet posts???? You've got to be kidding!!!!
Why not? The posts and from US citizens, who happen to be youths. Wheres the problem?

Well. How about the fact that the small slice of American youth that post on Anet can hardly be regarded as a representative statistically accurate sample of all American youth.

And I'll ask again. If we were capable of destroying a North Korean nuclear missile - using conventional weapons - would you object? Or do we have to take the first shot before we react?

Halls, apologies if i have not made myself totally clear - lets go through it again.

A pre-emptive strike is what it is.

You use conventional weapons to "take out" certain infrastructure, testing, and manufacture sites. That means you shower them with Tomahawks, and send in the B2s for the big stuff. Right? Perhaps you also mount attacks designed to take out the defensive positions, but thats risky because they are very heavily defended, and low level non-stealth attacks will result in casualties. So the plant, research labs, and factories are destroyed.

Why do you think North Korea want the bomb?

To protect themselves. If its useable, they will likely look to retaliate for what they see as an unprovoked and vicious attack by you, probably with Japanese support. They cant reach the US with any reliability, so they will look to US targets closer in. US Forces in South Korea? Islands in the Phillippines? Who knows?

See where this is going?

So the dust settles, North Korea ceases to exist, and it was you that fired first.

Thats assuming you dont wipe them off the map with a shower of Tridents if they commence live testing, which is a little more complicated.

Could argue about this all day mate, but the fact remains, if North Korea get atomic weapons, everyone os bang in trouble, not least because of people like TedTace.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:52 pm

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 37):
Thank you , we only have more universities than the combination of 10 countries . More kids attend school here every year than anywhere maybe other than China. We have GREAT kids in America ! Not all of them but a vast majority are the best in the world. FREE , RISK TAKERS ,AND OPEN MINDED. I am sick of the cheap shots from the people like you about our culture ans society.

I love the European cultures and have much respect for them , not all of it but I can distinguish between good and bad. You dont see us posting head shots like that

If you read the post, and my notes to it in subsequent replies, you would understand that I have a great deal of affection for the US and that you are all genuinely good, kind, well-meaning people.

But your media is too powerful, and many of you seem to have trivialised what a nuclear strike means. As stated before, you hate what you are told to hate, and you dont see anything wrong with military action to attain your goals because nobody says anything different. Your media says its ok, so its ok.

A sad state of affairs to be sure.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:56 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 38):
But on the same token, the same Generals would launch a retaliatory strike if we were attacked with nuclear weapons.

Of course - and ive stated before I have no objection to that.

I was merely passing comment on the fact that there are some who feel that NK should be "nuked" if it starts testing a nuclear weapon.

This, and the fact that so many of you are either not speaking up about it, or just dont care, thats my problem with it all.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 44):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 39):
but I'm just calling it as I, and a very large proportion of the UK, nevermind the rest of the world, see it.

And who appointed you as spokesman for everyone else?

If people do indeed see things as you say, then the greatest irony of the post is the comment about ignorant young Americans, since it is palpably clear that a large proportion of the UK, never mind the rest of the world, know very little about America.

Ok then Banco - off you go Son - how do you see it?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Banco
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RE: An Open Letter To Our US Members.

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:03 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 48):
Ok then Banco - off you go Son - how do you see it?

I agree with much of what the American members posted here. Your whole premise is flawed. What I find puzzling is your apparent insistence on knowing what America thinks, that the membership here is a paradigm for US thought, and then you object when that same group of people totally disagree with what you say.

Oh, and by the way, trying to patronise people by calling them "son" doesn't wash. I've not seen any evidence that you're coming from a perspective of sufficient clarity of thought and deep knowlege to qualify you to do so, and even if you had, it's not exactly indicative of a tolerant and open attitide, merely one of arrogance.

[Edited 2006-10-05 12:05:31]
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.

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