53Sqdn
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If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:02 am

It will be all doom and gloom. This was the message being bored into our brains not so long ago. Hmmmmm!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6047546.stm

Nice to see they were 'nearly' right with their speculation.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:11 am

Oh you'll be flamed by the euro fanatics on this site for that one!

As far as I can see, the euro is a dead issue in the UK, and no-one is politically suicidal enough to bring it up again.

The latest 10 new EU states you'll note do not have the option not to join the euro, they're all on a countdown to it whether they like it or not.

Anytime they want to bring back the Escudo I'd be quite happy, and then we can regain some control of our economy. Until then.....
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
53Sqdn
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 1):
Oh you'll be flamed by the euro fanatics on this site for that one!

As far as I can see, the euro is a dead issue in the UK, and no-one is politically suicidal enough to bring it up again.

The latest 10 new EU states you'll note do not have the option not to join the euro, they're all on a countdown to it whether they like it or not.

Anytime they want to bring back the Escudo I'd be quite happy, and then we can regain some control of our economy. Until then.....

They (whoever) can flame me all they want
 Silly

I much preferred (when travelling) an individual Countries monetary value than this septic Euro. Must admit though, never spent a Escudo in my life. Given the chance though.....  bigthumbsup 
 
eric
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:35 am

The problem is that as it stands the Euro does not count for much - you have the fiscal requirements that some member states can't keep too yet they were not penalised.

The Euro and the ECB does in many ways not count for much as long as all financial requirements are not met. One does not have to look much further than Scandinavia and the UK to see that not being a part of the Euro does not mean the end of the economy.

Just my opinion.
n
 
Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:28 am

Suits me fine - we can talk again after the real estate bubble in Britain has finally popped...!  mischievous 

It's very much a double-edged sword to go it alone...
 
IFEMaster
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
It's very much a double-edged sword to go it alone...

It's worked for many countries for many hundreds of years. I think the 'Euro' side of that sword might be a bit blunt.
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RobertNL070
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting 53Sqdn (Thread starter):

Besides the FTSE 100, the Amsterdam AEX index rose to a four-year high this week. The Dow Jones Index is up too. Having had a set-back in the summer, the Frankfurt DAX is also riding high. I don't understand your logic. This has little to do with currency and more to do with general optimism.

Robert  bouncy 
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Braybuddy
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting 53Sqdn (Thread starter):
It will be all doom and gloom. This was the message being bored into our brains not so long ago. Hmmmmm

And, of course, it was all doom and gloom for the euro too. It was supposed to result in huge unemployment in high inflation countries; last no longer than ten years (we're nearly eight into it now); it was a basket case when it went down to around 80 US cent, and, of course, the eurozone was pricing itself out of world markets when it went up to $1.33.

So what's gone wrong?
 
Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 5):
It's worked for many countries for many hundreds of years. I think the 'Euro' side of that sword might be a bit blunt.

You were staying out of the common currency for several hundred years although it didn't even exist before a few years ago?

I see...! Big grin
 
A340600
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:55 am

Keep the £££! Realistically it's pretty much accepted that more of us in this country don't want the damn euro so I doubt it will really be much of an issue
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
IFEMaster
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
You were staying out of the common currency for several hundred years although it didn't even exist before a few years ago?

I see...!

Ha!  laughing  No, what I meant was that before the Euro, everyone was "going it alone". A single currency has hardly been the economic force that it was touted and predicted to be, so I would say that it's best to stick with what HAS worked for many hundreds of years - the Great British Pound Sterling  biggrin 
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Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 10):
No, what I meant was that before the Euro, everyone was "going it alone".

And because of the experiences made with that, we introduced the €uro. Simple as that.

People learn. Some do, anyway.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 10):
I would say that it's best to stick with what HAS worked for many hundreds of years - the Great British Pound Sterling

Yup. We should all have stuck to paper mail and sailing ships, too... All those new things are so confusing...!  crazy 
 
IFEMaster
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
Yup. We should all have stuck to paper mail and sailing ships

At least they are still around and weren't abolished in the name of email and airplanes  Smile

Besides, Klaus, were you not proud of the Deutsche Mark?
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Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 12):
At least they are still around and weren't abolished in the name of email and airplanes

Same as old Mark notes and coins: Sporadically and with little practical use...

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 12):
Besides, Klaus, were you not proud of the Deutsche Mark?

"Proud"? Wouldn't say that.
The €uro signifies more than just our smaller community of this country - it signifies the will of the peoples of this continent to make the future something new, not a mere continuation and repetition of the past.

And unless you've got updated plans for a new empire somewhere, you'll need to freshen up your own perspectives just as well! "We're not europeans" might be a neat slogan, but as a constructive idea of who you actually are it's a bit weak, don't you think?  mischievous 
 
IFEMaster
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
The €uro signifies more than just our smaller community of this country - it signifies the will of the peoples of this continent to make the future something new, not a mere continuation and repetition of the past.

And unless you've got updated plans for a new empire somewhere, you'll need to freshen up your own perspectives just as well! "We're not europeans" might be a neat slogan, but as a constructive idea of who you actually are it's a bit weak, don't you think?

That's an interesting perspective, seeing as the Euro has for all intents and purposes failed at the remit that was initially planned for it.

I don't know that empires, perspectives, and slogans have anything to do with it. The fact still remains that the Euro would be a disaster for the UK right now, and there is nothing to signify that anything will change in the near future.

Also, I certainly haven't seen or heard any Brits using the slogan "We're not Europeans" as 'a constructive idea' of who they are, as you put it, but rather as simple defiance of who they are NOT. I don't regard myself as European, but I certainly don't identify myself that way. I'm English and proud of it. I'm also American now and proud of it. To say "I'm Not European" would carry no more weight in my identity than me saying "I'm not Chinese, I'm not German, I'm not Nigerian" or any other country. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point, but I don't quite see what one has to do with the other.
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Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 14):
That's an interesting perspective, seeing as the Euro has for all intents and purposes failed at the remit that was initially planned for it.

Not in the least. It is a stable currency which is on its way to becoming a major reserve currency next to the US$ and which has in fact helped bring about significant simplifications in intra-european trade of goods and services.

Its primary objectives have indeed been accomplished.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 14):
Also, I certainly haven't seen or heard any Brits using the slogan "We're not Europeans" as 'a constructive idea' of who they are, as you put it, but rather as simple defiance of who they are NOT.

Which is exactly what I said: It is not a constructive concept of who you actually are!

You know, relative to the bizarrely distorted and delusional idea of what Europe was allegedly about, pretty much every continental european could join in as well, claiming not to be a part of what you believe Europe to be.

"Unfortunately", Britain is a part of Europe, and britons are europeans by heritage, by culture and economically.

You're like everybody else around here - you're distinctly individual (just like everybody else Big grin ), but you're still part of the family at the same time!
 
Banco
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
it signifies the will of the peoples of this continent to make the future something new, not a mere continuation and repetition of the past.

Interesting on several levels that. Firstly, it most certainly wasn't the "will" of the peoples, since the only countries t have ever been given a referendum on the currency have rejected it. Your own country was, in opinion polls, opposed to joining. Given that, one can only assume that your "will of the people" is comparable to the same "will of the people" exercised by Democratic Republics around the world. It was the plan of the political elites, not the people.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
Which is exactly what I said: It is not a constructive concept of who you actually are!

Once again, you dare to speak on behalf of others. It's the same every time this subject crops up; Klaus knows best, anyone who dares to disagree is a reactionary.

Although I do concur that the current level of the stock market is completely irrelevant in any discussion on the Euro (except inasmuch as it does show Britain continues to perform well economically), Britain has sound economic reasons for wishing to stay outside the Eurozone, ones that I have gone over on many an occasion.

The political element is a separate matter, but I would much prefer that hard-headed economic analysis, that indicates that Britain is better off outside the Eurozone, to this woolly-minded, emotional belief in a "project" as so perfectly encapsulated by Klaus.
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Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 16):
Interesting on several levels that. Firstly, it most certainly wasn't the "will" of the peoples, since the only countries t have ever been given a referendum on the currency have rejected it.

Point missed #1: You'll find that europeans do overwhelmingly appreciate that Europe today is not what it was in the past.

Individual policies - especially whenever they bring almost any kind of change with them - are very often opposed, even if they are in fact beneficial in the longer term.

But the strategic changes which have been made do make a lot of sense, and most people do realize that.

For me, that development is expressed in the €uro, among other things.

Quoting Banco (Reply 16):
Once again, you dare to speak on behalf of others. It's the same every time this subject crops up; Klaus knows best, anyone who dares to disagree is a reactionary.

Point missed #2: Could you then please be so kind as to point out where exactly the constructive concept of what Britain actually is was in fact contained in the claim "We are not europeans!"

Try as I may, it still seems to elude me...!  mischievous 
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 1):
The latest 10 new EU states you'll note do not have the option not to join the euro, they're all on a countdown to it whether they like it or not.

Hey, there is still the option to fail to comply with the "Maastricht criteria" (budget deficit less than 3.6% GDP)!
Elect a left-wing government which by definition loves to spend more than they earn and you're on the best track. Look at Hungary, their deficit hovers around 10% (their PM at least had the guts to admit lying about it), we've had 8 years of soc-dems and with 2007 budget we're set to fail the criteria as well (our ex-PM still chooses to live in denial). Therefore it seems that until 2010-2012 EURO ius out of the question.

[Edited 2006-10-14 06:00:43]
 
Banco
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:23 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Point missed #1: You'll find that europeans do overwhelmingly appreciate that Europe today is not what it was in the past.

Of course. And? This belief that because Europe is not at war we should all bow down and kiss the feet of the EU is ludicrous. On the same basis perhaps you should offer your undying gratitude on a daily basis to the United States as well?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Individual policies - especially whenever they bring almost any kind of change with them - are very often opposed, even if they are in fact beneficial in the longer term.

But the strategic changes which have been made do make a lot of sense, and most people do realize that.

For me, that development is expressed in the €uro, among other things.

That is just rubbish, a justification for the fact that European governments rode roughshod over the opinions of their people. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer democracy, and governments in a democracy should NEVER have bounced the people into the Euro in the teeth of public opposition.

If the people want it, fine. They didn't, and in the UK they don't. And herein lies your biggest problem; you whinge constantly about the British not wanting your precious, beloved Euro. You moan that they're reactionary, old fashioned, stubborn - all those yet again emotional terms you love to employ, but the fact is that they don't. You never put any arguments forward in favour of why except for your glorious European project for the greater benefit of mankind, and how it'll mean the end of the world if we don't.

When the economic drawbacks (Good God, drawbacks? How can such a thing be in your perfect Utopia?) are pointed out, you ignore it again, and talk about the wonders of the God-given EU.

You've lost the argument in Britain. You might yet win it in future, but unless you ever come up with cogent, logical arguments, instead of "How could you, you meanies", and "you're all doomed" you never will.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):
Point missed #2: Could you then please be so kind as to point out where exactly the constructive concept of what Britain actually is was in fact contained in the claim "We are not europeans!"

It's an opinion, and a valid one, though I might not agree with it. But you don't like it. Britain, like it or not, is different economically, culturally and politically from the rest of Europe. It trades globally, it's culture is global to a degree utterly unmatched in the rest of Europe. When we talk about trade, Britain is the largest single investor in the United States, and intra-European trade involving us is lower than with any other European country.

Europe is critically important to the UK, obviously and clearly. But Britain now and always, looks beyond Europe to a much greater level that any other EU member. Now, I could go on about why this impacts on any decision about the Euro, but there's little point, because all you'll do is ignore and start talking about the glories of Brussels, as usual.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting 53Sqdn (Reply 2):
I much preferred (when travelling) an individual Countries monetary value than this septic Euro. Must admit though, never spent a Escudo in my life. Given the chance though.....

Why ? What possible difference could it make except be slightly less convenient - having to change money every time you crossed a border. Apart from that, it's just bits of paper.

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 1):
Anytime they want to bring back the Escudo I'd be quite happy, and then we can regain some control of our economy. Until then.....

Mmmm yes, the Portuguese economy was a miracle of abundance IIRC !  Smile

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 10):
No, what I meant was that before the Euro, everyone was "going it alone". A single currency has hardly been the economic force that it was touted and predicted to be, so I would say that it's best to stick with what HAS worked for many hundreds of years - the Great British Pound Sterling



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 12):
Besides, Klaus, were you not proud of the Deutsche Mark?

What's to be "proud of" in a currency. It's money, if you have it, great, if you don't, get a job. It's a means to a end, a tool. It's like being proud of a spanner.

Quoting Banco (Reply 16):
Interesting on several levels that. Firstly, it most certainly wasn't the "will" of the peoples, since the only countries t have ever been given a referendum on the currency have rejected it. Your own country was, in opinion polls, opposed to joining. Given that, one can only assume that your "will of the people" is comparable to the same "will of the people" exercised by Democratic Republics around the world. It was the plan of the political elites, not the people.

But for some reason in Europe there wasn't this overwhelming hostility to the idea of the Euro that there was (and still is) in the UK - there weren't riots and protests and stupid newspaper headlines when it was proposed, or when it was introduced. It just happened, and nowadays, it's a complete non-issue - nobody (except old and stupid people) regret the franc or the lira - it's euros now, and they work, and they work when you go to Italy, or Spain, or Germany as well - wonderful convenience.

And when you go outside the Eurozone you have a relatively stable and uncomplicated conversion to other local currencies. Before, only France, Germany and possibly Holland had what you might call "international" currencies - now everyone on the Eurozone has one. Can you imagine the fun trying to exchange Luxembourg francs or Greek drachmas in Madagascar ? Euros ? That'll do nicely, thank you.

It makes doing business internationally a great deal easier, and you now have the choice, depending on your market, of pricing in euros or dollars; pricing in euros removes problems of double exchange rates and all that stuff, and outside the Americas, the euro is rapidly becoming the currency of choice, at least in the business I'm in.

Clearly the economics have been fine for the pound and the Euro, neither is in danger of disappearing or being a disadvantage to the UK or the Eurozone (at the moment). But regardless of the economics, this hopelessly emotional and archaic attachment to having the Queen on the money is so last century. Yes, it is the will of the British people, but it's a pretty sentimental and irrational will.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
skidmarks
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
but it's a pretty sentimental and irrational will

And doesn't that just about encapsulate "people" as opposed to ideals and projects? It may be irrational and sentimental, but it's what many of the people living and working in the UK and around want, so therefore it isn't up to some other nationality to decide what is and what is not right for the "people" to decide.

I have no doubt in my mind that sometime in the future, the time will be right for Britain to integrate closer than it does today. until that time comes, moaning and berating us is a futile and stupid waste of time. Because as has been proven time and again in history, you tell us what we want and we'll tell you to go take a running jump. Contrary I think the word is, but one trait you Europeans would be minded to think about.

Andy  old 
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JGPH1A
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 21):
It may be irrational and sentimental, but it's what many of the people living and working in the UK and around want, so therefore it isn't up to some other nationality to decide what is and what is not right for the "people" to decide.

And yet it defies logic - it's woolly thinking. Nobody is going to force anyone to adopt the Euro, because we all live in democracies (in theory), but if the only reason not to (and I know there are economic reasons blah blah etc) but if the ONLY reason was that it wasn't the pound, that's a silly reason by anyone's standards.

But then the UK is renowned for it's irrational attachment to old and pointless things (like you and Banco  biggrin  )
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
IFEMaster
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
there weren't riots and protests and stupid newspaper headlines when it was proposed

And there haven't been any of these in the UK over any Euro proposal

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 22):
the UK is renowned for it's irrational attachment to old and pointless things

Would you care to explain what you mean by this bigoted and offensive comment?
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
JGPH1A
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 23):
And there haven't been any of these in the UK over any Euro proposal

There hasn't been a Euro proposal yet. And there probably won't be any riots, but there'll be protests and a LOT of stupid headlines, that's for sure.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 23):
Would you care to explain what you mean by this bigoted and offensive comment?

Yes - it was a JOKE !! Blimey, who died and made you QFF ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
IFEMaster
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 24):
Yes - it was a JOKE !! Blimey, who died and made you QFF ?

No one, but there is nothing in your post to suggest it was a joke. The smiley appears to be directed at two individuals.

Thanks for explaining.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
777236ER
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:33 am

As usually, more pithy, vaguely demeaning comments from Klaus, who doesn't realise that alternate points of view to his own have a right to be aired, let alone that they might be right. I find it rather insulting that he anticipates with glee an economic downturn!

The greatest thing that New Labour ever did for Britain was to relinquish control of the Bank of England interest rates - that is the main reason (along with education) that Britain has had such growth since 1997.

To then give up interest rate control to a bunch of bureaucrats with political agendas who have shown again and again they're useless at handling even local economies would be stupid.

The Euro is a dead issue in the UK. And there's no sign that bleak economic days are just around the corner, however much some people on here want that to happen.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:37 am

I respect Norway and the UK for jumping on the EU bandwagon. I don't think the EU will last too much longer though, maybe 30-40 yrs, because there is simply too much arguing between the countries. I think at least, anyone care to educate me on the matter?

Cheers,
Kye
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting Eric (Reply 3):
The Euro and the ECB does in many ways not count for much as long as all financial requirements are not met.

Neither is a moral authority. It simply is a currency and its administration.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
It's very much a double-edged sword to go it alone...

as your former FederalChancellor HelmutSchmidt once said, economy is 50% facts and 50% psychology. In Switzerland, you hear almost the same arguments as you can in Britain. While both British AND Swiss tourists alike love the fact that you can use the same currency in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece and Austria. Of course, the "separatism" has its merits, at least for some people in the financial business. But in the longer term, both Switzerland AND the UK ought to join the Euro for good.
 
Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 26):
As usually, more pithy, vaguely demeaning comments from Klaus, who doesn't realise that alternate points of view to his own have a right to be aired, let alone that they might be right.

You poor, poor thing! I'm so brutally repressing you...!  crazy 

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 26):
I find it rather insulting that he anticipates with glee an economic downturn!

Not really - but in view of the outright hatred emanating from Britain towards what they falsely believe Europe to be, and the combination of hubris and shortsightedness regarding the mythical economy, my preference would be to have Britain join after the current bubble has burst, not before.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 26):
The greatest thing that New Labour ever did for Britain was to relinquish control of the Bank of England interest rates - that is the main reason (along with education) that Britain has had such growth since 1997.

Sounds like a rather superstitious belief in imaginary magical powers of the BoE. The key is long-term sustainability of a positive development. And the jury is still out on that one as far as I'm aware, with mounting doubts.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 26):
To then give up interest rate control to a bunch of bureaucrats with political agendas who have shown again and again they're useless at handling even local economies would be stupid.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. The ECB is at least as independent as the BoE is. Your hatred of all things Europe apparently impairs your vision.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 26):
The Euro is a dead issue in the UK. And there's no sign that bleak economic days are just around the corner, however much some people on here want that to happen.

I don't - but bubbles do burst some day, unless they're controlled and deflated. And that doesn't seem to succeed to often.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
But for some reason in Europe there wasn't this overwhelming hostility to the idea of the Euro that there was (and still is) in the UK . . . It just happened, and nowadays, it's a complete non-issue

Got it in one JGPH1A! Also whether the UK joins or not is a complete non-issue, except perhaps, for citizens of the UK.

Here it's brought lower interest rates (because we had an irrelevant currency, we always had to have our rates pegged higher than the UK), which has meant a boost for the economy.

Now if I'm travelling to, say, Thailand, if I want travellers' cheques I take them in euro and no longer have to change currency twice, first into dollars, then into baht.

And apart from the practical, the euro has had a definite psycological effect. Even driving up to Northern Ireland it really feels like a foreign country now, much more so than Germany, Italy or Belgium. These countries are not so foreign anymore. And that can only be a good thing.

I have yet to come across ONE SINGLE PERSON here in the last five years who, even flippantly, regretted the passing of the Irish pound. It's gone, hopefully forever . . .
 
checkraiser
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 27):
I respect Norway and the UK for jumping on the EU bandwagon. I don't think the EU will last too much longer though, maybe 30-40 yrs, because there is simply too much arguing between the countries. I think at least, anyone care to educate me on the matter?

That was a problem in our early history - bickering amongst states. A lot of the world said this nation didn't stand a chance. History has obviously proven otherwise.

Most likely the EU and its member states will grow stronger and be even more deeply bonded. It's already happening.
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GSM763
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:06 am

For me from a convinience point of view joining the €uro would be helpful as it saves having to change money. The economies that tanked in 2002/3 probably would have anyway regardless of wherther or not the euro had come into play. Also for heavens sake currencies are not of sentimental value they are simply bits of metal and paper that we are happy to exchange for goods and services, they hold no sentimental value whatsoever.

However desphaving said that the euroms to be a dead duck in UK polotics at the moment with not even the Lib Dems daring to mention it.

[Edited 2006-10-14 20:07:46]
 
Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 19):
Of course. And? This belief that because Europe is not at war we should all bow down and kiss the feet of the EU is ludicrous

Nonsense. Europe is much, much more than the European Commission, which is the favourite british windmill to ride against right now.  hypnotized 

Quoting Banco (Reply 19):
If the people want it, fine. They didn't, and in the UK they don't. And herein lies your biggest problem; you whinge constantly about the British not wanting your precious, beloved Euro. You moan that they're reactionary, old fashioned, stubborn - all those yet again emotional terms you love to employ, but the fact is that they don't. You never put any arguments forward in favour of why except for your glorious European project for the greater benefit of mankind, and how it'll mean the end of the world if we don't.

Nonsense again. You simply choose to summarily disregard and ignore them, apparently. Which doesn't change the fact that the €uro has been a substantial success both intra-european and globally. But you'd probably explode before admitting the obvious...  Yeah sure

Quoting Banco (Reply 19):
It's an opinion, and a valid one, though I might not agree with it. But you don't like it. Britain, like it or not, is different economically, culturally and politically from the rest of Europe.

Yes, you're unique - just like everybody else around here!  mischievous 

And contrary to you, apparently, I do not believe that that makes you fundamentally incapable of successfully cooperating with other nations.
 
GSM763
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:10 am

The EC does have problems like any large buracratic orgenization does. However as Klaus says Europe is much more than it. European integration has allowed for the boom in intra-european air travel over the last few years, you can now get free healthcare in other European contries something which has saved many lifes. The EC needs reforming but there is a hell of a lot more to Europe.
 
RobertNL070
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 27):
I respect Norway and the UK for jumping on the EU bandwagon.

 confused  Please explain. Although Norway maintains an amicable trade agreement with the European Union, Norway doesn't have the euro as its currency and it isn't even a member of the European Union.

Robert  bouncy 
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JGPH1A
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 35):
Please explain. Although Norway maintains an amicable trade agreement with the European Union, Norway doesn't have the euro as its currency and it isn't even a member of the European Union.

From the tone of the rest of the post, I think the poster missed a significant "not" in his post. I think he/she meant to say "I respect Norway and the UK for not jumping on the EU bandwagon."

However, the UK did jump on the EU bandwagon - they just didn't change to the Euro. Norway is a part of the European Economic Area and signed the Schengen open borders agreement, and has a favourable trading status with the EU.
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RichPhitzwell
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:53 am

Funny, USA had to deal with this very same issue. The difference is we dealt with it a couple of hundred years ago, about the same time we decided to become a nation and give up some state powers for federal power.

I'm sure this was very difficult at that time, I'm sure some lost while others won.

Europe is just a tad larger than USA of yesteryear, and Europe isn't going to war to declare independence. I wonder what would have happened if this was tried immediately after WWII or WWI.
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JGPH1A
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 37):
Europe is just a tad larger than USA of yesteryear, and Europe isn't going to war to declare independence. I wonder what would have happened if this was tried immediately after WWII or WWI.

It wouldn't have happened - the memories of the war were still too fresh, Europe had been tearing itself apart for 6 years. It's a miracle it's only taken 50 or 60 years to achieve the level of cohesion that we have in EU, given the past 1000 years of European history.
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777236ER
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):
my preference would be to have Britain join after the current bubble has burst, not before.

Why are you so convinced that a large economic downturn is just around the corner?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):

Sounds like a rather superstitious belief in imaginary magical powers of the BoE. The key is long-term sustainability of a positive development. And the jury is still out on that one as far as I'm aware, with mounting doubts.

Long term sustainability in the UK has come from sensible economic management (Gordon Brown, however much you dislike him), sustained investment in education, and the Bank of England setting interest rates.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 29):

I don't think you know what you're talking about. The ECB is at least as independent as the BoE is. Your hatred of all things Europe apparently impairs your vision.

The president, vice-president and many other members of the executive board are appointed by the European Parliament.

Now, you're the one resorting to ridiculous accusations to support your arguments (or lack of). I don't hate all things European. I love Europe, I support Britain being in the EU, I support the concept of the EU. Simply because I don't think Britain should be a member of the Euro doesn't mean I hate Europe; things aren't as black and white as you think they are.

Britain has an entirely different economy to the rest of Europe. Centralised European interest rate changes would be totally inapropriate for the UK. The current ECB rate is 3.25% (arguably too high). Compare that to 4.75% in the UK. Such a fall in British interest rates would simply lead the British economy into the boom and bust of the 80s. The economies are too distinct.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 33):
Which doesn't change the fact that the €uro has been a substantial success both intra-european and globally.

Define a 'substantial success'. Take your own country: the Euro has had little impact on your poor economy. This year you'll have a whopping 2.5% growth in GDP, following years of stagnation. Unemployment is still high. The currency that Germany pushed so hard for hasn't been the panacaea you thought it was. You should sort out your own house before condemning the UK for its economic policies, which have after all led to a much more stable and successful economy than your own.
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Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 40):
Why are you so convinced that a large economic downturn is just around the corner?

Not my analysis - but when, for instance, real estate prices are continually rising through the roof without actual, sustainable value backing them up, it seems to make people nervous; And maybe it's just me, but my expectation in "bubble economies" is usually that they'll come down hard rather than softly.

It would be great if that wouldn't come to pass, but could one actually expect it to?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 40):
Long term sustainability in the UK has come from sensible economic management (Gordon Brown, however much you dislike him), sustained investment in education, and the Bank of England setting interest rates.

I have no problem with Brown whatsoever, nor a preference.
The question will remain if the speculative element which seems to push the economy upwards now can simply be removed without major consequences. That is what I'm talking about regarding sustainability.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 40):
The president, vice-president and many other members of the executive board are appointed by the European Parliament.

None of them are answerable to the EP (which is, by the way, the by far most directly legitimized european organ!) for their monetary policies. They are as independent as the leadership of the german Bundesbank has always been before.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 40):
Now, you're the one resorting to ridiculous accusations to support your arguments (or lack of). I don't hate all things European. I love Europe, I support Britain being in the EU, I support the concept of the EU. Simply because I don't think Britain should be a member of the Euro doesn't mean I hate Europe; things aren't as black and white as you think they are.

Well, you've completely confused the structure of the ECB leadership, with the usual cookie-cutter abuse thrown in for good measure...

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 40):
Britain has an entirely different economy to the rest of Europe. Centralised European interest rate changes would be totally inapropriate for the UK. The current ECB rate is 3.25% (arguably too high). Compare that to 4.75% in the UK. Such a fall in British interest rates would simply lead the British economy into the boom and bust of the 80s. The economies are too distinct.

Differences in economies were (and will continue to be) why the integration has always been done on the basis of convergence plans. It's not a matter of just twiddling your thumbs and "magically" the currencies will align...!  crazy 

It takes a lot of hard work and a reasonable time frame to be successful here. But the higher the unbalanced risks on either side, the more difficult it will necessarily be...

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 40):
The currency that Germany pushed so hard for hasn't been the panacaea you thought it was.

Rubbish. The "panacea" nonsense is an exclusive europhobic invention.

The €uro had and has a set of target objectives which were a lot more pragmatic, and especially considering the much more complicated worldwide situation nowadays, it has stood up excellently and is still progressing very well.

None of the doomsday scenarios has come true.
 
777236ER
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
Not my analysis - but when, for instance, real estate prices are continually rising through the roof without actual, sustainable value backing them up, it seems to make people nervous; And maybe it's just me, but my expectation in "bubble economies" is usually that they'll come down hard rather than softly.

It would be great if that wouldn't come to pass, but could one actually expect it to?

All this has nothing to do with the UK joining the Euro! You cite dodgy examples, and admit that what you're saying is pure speculation, yet you still made the point. Why? Why do you want the UK to experience an economic downturn?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
The question will remain if the speculative element which seems to push the economy upwards now can simply be removed without major consequences. That is what I'm talking about regarding sustainability.

You've changed your tune. Not so long ago, you said:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
Suits me fine - we can talk again after the real estate bubble in Britain has finally popped...!

There's 'a question' now, is there?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
None of them are answerable to the EP (which is, by the way, the by far most directly legitimized european organ!) for their monetary policies. They are as independent as the leadership of the german Bundesbank has always been before.

It's not true independence. I would expect anyone appointed by a political organisation to share the views of that organisation.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):

Well, you've completely confused the structure of the ECB leadership, with the usual cookie-cutter abuse thrown in for good measure...

Does the ECB leadership have a president, a vice-president and executive members? Don't try and paint me as ignorant, my point is valid and stands. It's telling to me that you quote me saying that my view is Britain shouldn't join the Euro and call that abuse!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
Differences in economies were (and will continue to be) why the integration has always been done on the basis of convergence plans. It's not a matter of just twiddling your thumbs and "magically" the currencies will align...! crazy

It takes a lot of hard work and a reasonable time frame to be successful here. But the higher the unbalanced risks on either side, the more difficult it will necessarily be...

Convergence plans mean nothing when your economy is the one suffering as a result of it. Why should the UK work hard at aligning to Europe when its economy is doing fine on its own?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
Rubbish. The "panacea" nonsense is an exclusive europhobic invention.

There you go again, calling me europhobic just because I don't want Britain to be a member of the Euro! If the Euro isn't the most important part of the EU, then why are you calling me europhobic for not liking it? Don't contradict yourself.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):

The €uro had and has a set of target objectives which were a lot more pragmatic, and especially considering the much more complicated worldwide situation nowadays, it has stood up excellently and is still progressing very well.

It's a shame then that growth in the EU is stronger than growth in simply the Eurozone then, isn't it?
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N174UA
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:22 am

I'm only the 2nd Yank to dip my toes in the Euro/UK shark pool on A-net? Either I'm stupid for doing so, or I'm one of few of us over here that has a grasp on the issue and the Euro/EU.

My thoughts:

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 1):
As far as I can see, the euro is a dead issue in the UK

For now, yes. But as the older generations pass on, what are the chances that younger people will want to adopt the Euro?

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 1):
Anytime they want to bring back the Escudo I'd be quite happy, and then we can regain some control of our economy



Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 1):
The latest 10 new EU states you'll note do not have the option not to join the euro, they're all on a countdown to it whether they like it or not.

That's one criticism of the Euro, especially by countries like Italy and Portugal. Used to be they could devalue their currency, but not anymore, since they ceded control of it to the ECB.

As far as the Lira goes...I was in Sansepolcro, Italy (north of Assisi and east of Arezzo/Florence) for two weeks for a study tour through Seattle Univ. We had a group come in (from ASCOM, which represents business interests) and their opinion of the Lira/Euro issue was that it would be logistically impossible to go back, i.e. putting Lira in ATM's, stores, etc. but if it were put to a national vote, the idea would win in a landslide. When I got back, I read in a very recent issue of the Economist about Italy's budget problems that London-based think-tank CER has put the chances of Italy having to abondon the Euro at "a daunting 40%".

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
It is a stable currency which is on its way to becoming a major reserve currency next to the US$ and which has in fact helped bring about significant simplifications in intra-european trade of goods and services

Absolutely. One of the ideas behind the Euro was to be a "counterbalance" to the power of the dollar. The relative stability over the last three years (actually, longer than that, since the EU15 began tying their original currencies to the Euro in 1999) has shown the Euro is a formidable force in the currency markets.

The big question on this side of the pond is the rate of our current deficit spending. It's fine for the national government to run a deficit per se, but the key is the growth rate of that deficit. If it's not contained or slowed, nations like China that hold large reserves of US Dollars may become concerned about our ability to repay it, and instead buy Euros. That makes our debt much more expensive (rates go up) and taxpayers here get stuck paying MUCH more in potential tax hikes to repay it. For now anyway, the US is the strongest economy, and the international debt financing market deems our economy to be the strongest, and they're still continuing to finance our spending.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
Its primary objectives have indeed been accomplished.

The launch of the Euro was damn near flawless. Most nations expected a three-month transition, but it was much shorter than that.

That said, the perception in Europe (and Italy especially) is that on 1/1/2002, prices doubled, and that the "L" or "DM", etc. was simply replaced by the Euro symbol. People still complain about that, so our friends in Brussels needs to work harder to combat this (mis)perception. Absent of any data that proves otherwise, I don't think prices actually "doubled".

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 18):
Hey, there is still the option to fail to comply with the "Maastricht criteria" (budget deficit less than 3.6% GDP)!

I believe you're referring to the 3% Growth and Stability Pact. I thought it was the Copenhagen agreement, but that might have covered accession criteria to the EU...I'd have to check my notes again, though I should know.

At any rate, I think even the original EU15 (and yeah, Italy again...) is having trouble meeting this 3% of real GDP benchmark, and even the USA wouldn't meet it, so perhaps the EU needs to revisit the issue.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 7):
And, of course, it was all doom and gloom for the euro too. It was supposed to result in huge unemployment in high inflation countries; last no longer than ten years (we're nearly eight into it now); it was a basket case when it went down to around 80 US cent, and, of course, the eurozone was pricing itself out of world markets when it went up to $1.33.

So what's gone wrong?

As I mentioned above, the Euro (after 4 years in circulation, and 7 years since creation in 1999 when nations tied their exchange rates to it) has been HIGHLY successful worldwide in a very short period of time. Of course they're growing pains and issues. But for Europe, the common currency makes perfect sense for so many reasons.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 36):
I respect Norway and the UK for not jumping on the EU bandwagon

Well, the reason Norway didn't, and won't, join the EU is because of its oil and natural resource reserves, which make it one of the world's richest nations in terms of per-capita GDP (income per person) and funds its expensive standard of living. If they joined the EU, then those resources become common property, at the expense of Norway. So yeah, makes sense why they didn't join.

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 37):
I wonder what would have happened if this was tried immediately after WWII or WWI.

It would have failed of course, but the foundation was established for the ECC (eventually EU) and that ultimately led to the Euro, right after the war.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 38):
It's a miracle it's only taken 50 or 60 years to achieve the level of cohesion that we have in EU, given the past 1000 years of European history.

 checkmark  There are many challenges ahead of course, and my personal view is that they need to slow the rate of expansion and focus on key issues that affect current nations, such as unemployment, labor rule flexibility, etc.
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 38):
It wouldn't have happened - the memories of the war were still too fresh, Europe had been tearing itself apart for 6 years. It's a miracle it's only taken 50 or 60 years to achieve the level of cohesion that we have in EU, given the past 1000 years of European history.

I do hear you, but imagine if the USA was not under impeding war 230 years ago, we may not have a standard currency or standard interstate commerce today. It took war to unite.

My point is that Europe is not under any real threat, therefore the Euro has little value to the individual countries except the poorest. The wealthy obviously dont want it.

Curious why Poland has not adopted the Euro yet...
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:18 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 26):
The greatest thing that New Labour ever did for Britain was to relinquish control of the Bank of England interest rates - that is the main reason (along with education) that Britain has had such growth since 1997.

The British economy was reformed and modernized in the Thatcher years and since then has had, usually at least, higher growth rates than most of Europe. NewLabour continued with various reforms in various fields, and by that combination, not just one particular step, succeeded amazingly well

Quoting Banco (Reply 19):
we should all bow down and kiss the feet of the EU

you speak as if you were citizen of a small country in Europe. But the UK, as one of the BIG members has a considerable influence in the EU. And nobody is required to kiss the feet of anybody. Or are you in the habit to visit Mr Blair to kiss HIS feet ?
 
JGPH1A
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:04 pm

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 43):
My point is that Europe is not under any real threat, therefore the Euro has little value to the individual countries except the poorest. The wealthy obviously dont want it.

I would disagree that the wealthy don't want it. In France, the euro is a non-issue - it's simply there. Prices didn't jump up on 1 Jan 2002, in fact prices have been very steady (except petrol) since then, and price transparency across borders has helped keep prices fairly even. This helps in northern, eastern and southern France, considering that quite a healthy proportion of the population lives within fairly easy driving reach of a border. There are still price differences across borders (booze and cigarettes are much cheaper in Italy than France, for example, because of taxes), but they are much easier to spot.

The transition to the euro here was amazingly smooth (although I have to say, I in my insanity went to the hypermarket on New Years Eve 2001, and to see the crowds and general insanity there, you'd think they had planned to abolish currencies (and food) altogether  Smile ) - prices had been posted in Euros for a year or 2 prior to the changeover, I already had a Euro chequebook, we'd seen the coins and notes already, it was no major drama.
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speedbird747BA
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 35):
Please explain. Although Norway maintains an amicable trade agreement with the European Union, Norway doesn't have the euro as its currency and it isn't even a member of the European Union.

Robert

Whoops, I meant NOT jumping on.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
Klaus
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 41):
All this has nothing to do with the UK joining the Euro! You cite dodgy examples, and admit that what you're saying is pure speculation, yet you still made the point. Why? Why do you want the UK to experience an economic downturn?

If an economy carries a major imbalance with the risk of a sudden crisis as a consequence, it's not exactly desirable for the community to share the risk after not sharing the temporary gains. Accession to the €uro would automatically transfer some part of the risks to all other Eurozone members.

After the imbalance has been resolved, the long-term lookout would be more stable and quite probably more fair than it would be now.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 41):
It's not true independence. I would expect anyone appointed by a political organisation to share the views of that organisation.

The best way to appoint someone to an extremely important and independent job within a democracy is by a nonpartisan consensus in one of the elected organs of said democracy.

Or what would your proposal be? General elections? Populist slogans would be about the last thing conducive to a stable currency!

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 41):
Why should the UK work hard at aligning to Europe when its economy is doing fine on its own?

Your economy is not "on its own" - it is an active participant of the common market and would suffer substantially if it was cut off from unimpeded market access.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 41):
There you go again, calling me europhobic just because I don't want Britain to be a member of the Euro! If the Euro isn't the most important part of the EU, then why are you calling me europhobic for not liking it? Don't contradict yourself.

You were presenting the tired old nonsense about the €uro "not being a panacea" which nobody with a bit of insight in the history and the reality of the common currency has ever mentioned, much less believed in anyway.

Quoting N174UA (Reply 42):
I'm only the 2nd Yank to dip my toes in the Euro/UK shark pool on A-net? Either I'm stupid for doing so, or I'm one of few of us over here that has a grasp on the issue and the Euro/EU.

And yet you seem to possess far more insight into the reality of what the €uro actually is than many britons "next door" can muster.

Bizarre, isn't it...?

Quoting N174UA (Reply 42):
When I got back, I read in a very recent issue of the Economist about Italy's budget problems that London-based think-tank CER has put the chances of Italy having to abondon the Euro at "a daunting 40%".

Italy's problem is probably that its governments have for a long time extracted a substantial inflation tax from its population and its economy - and that "trick" simply has stopped working with a currency which can't be manipulated to the government's liking.

They don't need to abandon the €uro, they need to abandon their old policies which have no chance of working now and which actually never really worked before.

Quoting N174UA (Reply 42):
That said, the perception in Europe (and Italy especially) is that on 1/1/2002, prices doubled, and that the "L" or "DM", etc. was simply replaced by the Euro symbol. People still complain about that, so our friends in Brussels needs to work harder to combat this (mis)perception. Absent of any data that proves otherwise, I don't think prices actually "doubled".

No, they did not. Unfortunately a small number of goods and services did in fact become a lot more expensive in Germany - because some people thought they could get away with it during the changeover. Which nevertheless resulted in a net loss of revenue when their customers failed to play along.

Many prices have been very stable or even falling since the introduction of the €uro.

Overall there has been no noticeable "€uro inflation effect". To the contrary, the efficiency gains related to the €uro are quite visible.

Quoting N174UA (Reply 42):
At any rate, I think even the original EU15 (and yeah, Italy again...) is having trouble meeting this 3% of real GDP benchmark, and even the USA wouldn't meet it, so perhaps the EU needs to revisit the issue.

Absolutely - I think it is good to actually enforce a certain economical discipline within the €urozone, but those specific margins had been set during the IT boom years and before 9-11 and did not sufficiently account for the kinds of risks and challenges we're dealing with since then.

Quoting N174UA (Reply 42):
Well, the reason Norway didn't, and won't, join the EU is because of its oil and natural resource reserves, which make it one of the world's richest nations in terms of per-capita GDP (income per person) and funds its expensive standard of living. If they joined the EU, then those resources become common property, at the expense of Norway. So yeah, makes sense why they didn't join.

Well, their riches would not really become "common property" - they would just be asked to participate in the EU budget according to their economic capacity. And the EU budget contribution is far lower than people usually think it was.

At this point they are a very small and oil-rich economy which does not have many needs an EU membership could satisfy. The whaling controversy is not really a significant economical issue, but it probably contributes to the lack of enthusiasm on the norwegian side.

As far as norwegians are actually capable of exhibiting enthusiasm, that is...!  mischievous 

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 43):
My point is that Europe is not under any real threat, therefore the Euro has little value to the individual countries except the poorest. The wealthy obviously dont want it.

Complete nonsense. The €uro is a tool to facilitate the emergence of a functioning and healthy common market in Europe, it has nothing at all to do with "real threats" of any kind (except speculative currency manipulation).

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 43):
Curious why Poland has not adopted the Euro yet...

They have already agreed to introduce it when acceding to the EU. But like everybody else, they need to satisfy the economic criteria for the actual introduction.
 
777236ER
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 47):
If an economy carries a major imbalance with the risk of a sudden crisis as a consequence, it's not exactly desirable for the community to share the risk after not sharing the temporary gains. Accession to the €uro would automatically transfer some part of the risks to all other Eurozone members.

From the bizarre to the bizarre! You're saying now that because Britain has experienced (temporary?!) gains, it should suffer the consequence and experience crippling losses? Unless of course, we become part of the Eurozone, when there's nought but milk and honey?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 47):
The best way to appoint someone to an extremely important and independent job within a democracy is by a nonpartisan consensus in one of the elected organs of said democracy.

An admittance that the position is politically selected, and thus not independent.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 47):

You were presenting the tired old nonsense about the €uro "not being a panacea" which nobody with a bit of insight in the history and the reality of the common currency has ever mentioned, much less believed in anyway.

Why do you simply ignore the point I made? If you didn't believe the Euro is integral to the EU, then why am I a 'europhobic' (worse than even a euroskeptic!) for disliking the Euro and not mentioning the EU?

By the way, Euro not €uro.
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A342
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RE: If The UK Doesn't Go With The Euro

Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:45 am

To all the Brits out there: Of course, you may still engrave the Queen on your future Euro coins - nobody will stop you from doing that.  Wink
Exceptions confirm the rule.

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