AerospaceFan
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2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:19 am

The current schedule for the 2012 Olympics to be held in London puts adherents of certain faiths at a disadvantage because they are religiously required to fast during daytime hours for the entire period, a recent news report says.

A human rights activist claiming to speak for members of such faiths has demanded that the schedule be changed in sensitivity to the needs of athletes who would be weakened because of the fast.

The British Olympic Committee intends to discuss the matter with Olympic organizers, according to the story.

For more information, please see:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv..._article_id=410439&in_page_id=1770

[Edited 2006-10-15 19:36:08]
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Aeroflot777
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:32 am

I agree that this is a huge problem. Fasting is an important part of many various religions. They are going to have to deal with it in some way or another. Let's see what happens though.

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Mir
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:40 am

Surprisingly, this is one of the more legitimate beefs that the Islamic world has come up with of late.

However, I do believe that Islam carries a provision that you can eat during the day if it is necessary for you to do so, and if you make up the missed days at another time in the year. I don't think it's that big of an issue from the athletes' standpoint.

The fans' standpoint, however, I do understand. It would be nice if they could change it for that, but the organizing committee has their own logistical problems, and something is probably going to have to give at some point.

-Mir
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jwenting
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:40 am

tough luck.
I seriously doubt Iran would change the schedule to accommodate Christians, for example by not holding events on sunday and during other periods there's normally church services.

But by 2012 the UK will likely be a muslim theocracy anyway so it hardly matters.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 3):
But by 2012 the UK will likely be a muslim theocracy anyway so it hardly matters.

I take it you're being sardonic!
What's fair is fair.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasti

Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Surprisingly, this is one of the more legitimate beefs that the Islamic world has come up with of late.

I agree. The Olympics should not force athletes to choose between their religious practices and their loyalty to their national sports teams.

It also goes to show that you don't need to burn an embassy, kill a journalist, or throw stones at a McDonalds to a make a point.
 
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
I take it you're being sardonic!

He isn't. Jwenting enjoys his role as our resident tin-foil-hat-wearing loony who lives in constant fear of anything that is foreign or different from himself. We tend not to take him too seriously though  Smile
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AerospaceFan
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
He isn't. Jwenting enjoys his role as our resident tin-foil-hat-wearing loony who lives in constant fear of anything that is foreign or different from himself.

Well, between all of us A.Netters here in this Forum, it's no wonder that the price of tinfoil is so high, then!

 Big grin
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art
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:59 am

Well, the organisers could be sensitive and schedule Olympic activities at times that would not impinge on the religious sensitivities of competitors:

By avoiding Ramadan
By avoiding Friday (day of the mosque)
By avoiding Saturday (Jewish Sabbath)
By avoiding Sunday (Christian day of rest)
By avoiding all other days of the week which are special/sacred in any other religions

Then there is the gender element to deal with:

Organise same sex mixed doubles badminton (for example) Smile
In the interest of fairness to swimming competitors, oblige all female swimmers to be covered from neck to ankle. Oh, and oblige them to wear a veil, too. Smile

Alernatively, the organisers could take the view that the Olympics are by nature sporting, not religious, in character and open to all who wish to compete.
 
777236ER
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:03 am

The entire Olympics became a bit of a joke when they gave them to the communist, human-rights-abusing Chinese.
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Queso
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
The current schedule for the 2012 Olympics to be held in London puts adherents of certain faiths at a disadvantage because they are religiously required to fast during daytime hours for the entire period, a recent news report says.

A human rights activist claiming to speak for members of such faiths has demanded that the schedule be changed in sensitivity to the needs of athletes who would be weakened because of the fast.

There's always Barber College or Truck-Driving school. If they don't like it they can find something else to do, like get a job.
 
kaddyuk
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 9):
The entire Olympics became a bit of a joke when they gave them to the communist, human-rights-abusing Chinese.

They've been a joke for alot longer than that!
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
JGPH1A
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7):
Well, between all of us A.Netters here in this Forum, it's no wonder that the price of tinfoil is so high, then!

Pardon ? What was that ? I couldn't hear you, the tin foil is blocking the mind-control space lasers by which you communicate  biggrin 


I think the point here should be that the Olympics is VOLUNTARY - the athletes can choose simply not to fast. I'm sure God won't mind, and who else is gonna know (or care ?).
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Pyrex
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
religiously required to fast during daytime hours for the entire period

There is no such thing as a "religious requirement", since professing a religion and how you do it is something completely voluntary (at least in the UK, where the Olympics will take place).
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N1120A
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):

Why are you using a rag like the Mail anyway?

Islam does have an exception to Ramadan for those who are travelling (as most Moslem competitors will be) and for those who are undergoing high physical stress (athletes). Hakeem Olajuwon unnecesessarily fasted during his NBA career, but these Olympians should be able to recognize this as an exception.
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MCIGuy
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:14 am

I say "tough", Islam will have to adjust, the world shouldn't be made to adjust for Islam. No special considerations for one religion, they're not "special".
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N1120A
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 15):
I say "tough", Islam will have to adjust, the world shouldn't be made to adjust for Islam. No special considerations for one religion, they're not "special".

The world adjusts to other religions all the time.
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MCIGuy
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
The world adjusts to other religions all the time.

Really, citation?
Moses said Jews aren't supposed to do much on Sunday. Will Israel demand that no events be held on Sundays?
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N1120A
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 17):
Really, citation?

You ever go out on Christmas?
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MCIGuy
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 17):
Really, citation?

You ever go out on Christmas?

Sure, what few businesses are open on Christmas. But then, Christianity doesn't mandate that we do nothing on Christmas but celebrate Jesus' percieved birthday so, bad example. If the Winter Games were held somewhere where Christmas isn't celebrated, I have a feeling they wouldn't ask everyone else to adjust and they'd go ahead and compete on 12/25.

[Edited 2006-10-15 23:28:02]
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N1120A
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 19):
If the Winter Games were held somewhere where Christmas isn't celebrated, I have a feeling they wouldn't ask everyone else to adjust and they'd go ahead and compete on 12/25.

Then you are naive.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
qr332
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
However, I do believe that Islam carries a provision that you can eat during the day if it is necessary for you to do so, and if you make up the missed days at another time in the year. I don't think it's that big of an issue from the athletes' standpoint.

You can't skip fasting and redo it whenever you feel like it, you need a legitimate reason such as needing to take medication, travelling long distances, etc. It is a big problem for both fans and athletes.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 3):
tough luck.
I seriously doubt Iran would change the schedule to accommodate Christians, for example by not holding events on sunday and during other periods there's normally church services.

Iran is not representitive of the Muslim world.

Quoting Art (Reply 8):
Alernatively, the organisers could take the view that the Olympics are by nature sporting, not religious, in character and open to all who wish to compete.

But there are huge amounts of Muslim athletes, and alienating them because Ramadan clashes with the Olympics goes against the spirit of the Olympics.

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 15):
I say "tough", Islam will have to adjust, the world shouldn't be made to adjust for Islam. No special considerations for one religion, they're not "special".

Excuse me? What, just because their Muslims, their beliefs don't matter anymore? There is nothing wrong with adjusting to suit other's beliefs to a certain extent, when hundreds of athletes would be disadvantaged at the Olympics because of their timings, then you know that something has to be done.

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 19):
Sure, what few businesses are open on Christmas. But then, Christianity doesn't mandate that we do nothing on Christmas but celebrate Jesus' percieved birthday so, bad example. If the Winter Games were held somewhere where Christmas isn't celebrated, I have a feeling they wouldn't ask everyone else to adjust and they'd go ahead and compete on 12/25.

No player would be disadvantaged during Christmas, during Ramadan, athletes wouldn't even be able to drink water.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Then you are naive.

 yes 
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
MCIGuy
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Then you are naive.

Now that's rich!  rotfl 
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JGPH1A
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 17):
Moses said Jews aren't supposed to do much on Sunday. Will Israel demand that no events be held on Sundays?

Technically, Jewish Sabbath is on Saturdays (well, Friday sunset to Saturday sunset). But it's a valid point. The same could be said of devout Christians running on a Sunday. Did you see "Chariots of Fire" ? Part of the story revolved around a deeply religious Christian runner who refused to compete in the final of his event because it was held on a Sunday. IIRC he didn't run, he didn't win, oh well, never mind - LOOOOO-ZEERRRRR !  biggrin 
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
MCIGuy
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 21):
Excuse me? What, just because their Muslims, their beliefs don't matter anymore? There is nothing wrong with adjusting to suit other's beliefs to a certain extent, when hundreds of athletes would be disadvantaged at the Olympics because of their timings, then you know that something has to be done.

I'm sorry, I know no such thing!
I didn't say that because they're Muslim that they don't matter, but by the same token, it seems that many in Islam feel that it needs special treatment. It seems that they feel that Islam is the only important religion in the world and that we should "make way for Islam". I say no, it's all or nothing. Everyone gets special treatment or no one does. No, I think Jewish athletes would compete on Saturday and Christian athletes would compete on Christmas. If accomodations were made for all world religions, we might as well call off the Olympics altogether.
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RobertNL070
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:12 am

If I am not mistaken, in 1980 the month of Ramadan began around 14th July and the Moscow Olympics began on 19th July. Despite the US lead boycot of this Olympiad, there were still eighty countries attending. Iraq, Kuwait, Jordan, Lebanon and Libya, all countries with a (significant) Muslim population. How did the fasting Muslims manage then?

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qr332
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 24):
I'm sorry, I know no such thing!
I didn't say that because they're Muslim that they don't matter, but by the same token, it seems that many in Islam feel that it needs special treatment. It seems that they feel that Islam is the only important religion in the world and that we should "make way for Islam". I say no, it's all or nothing. Everyone gets special treatment or no one does. No, I think Jewish athletes would compete on Saturday and Christian athletes would compete on Christmas. If accomodations were made for all world religions, we might as well call off the Olympics altogether.

What is this treatment that you keep talking about? If you want the "special" treatment we've apparantly been getting, please, take it away and keep it. Nobody is asking for Islam to be treated differentley, but you have to take into consideration that unlike Saturday with Jews and Sunday with Christians, where it is usually the more relgious people fast, with Muslims the vast majority, including those that aren't very religious such as myself, do indeed fast. And our fasting is not like that of Christians, nothing can be consumed between sunrise and sunset. Now, the whole point is that Muslims can hardly perform as well as they should under these circumstances, so some kind of solution has to be worked out. It is unfair to ask a large amount of athletes to not follow their beliefs, or to compete with a large disadvantage.
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MCIGuy
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:45 am

My point is that the IOC is not a religious organisation and NO consideration should be made for religion, Islam or other. If Muslim athletes don't want to compete because of a scheduling conflict, well that's entirely up to them.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:09 am

I have no opinion on this matter. I hope that the IOC and BOC make a decision and stick with it, either way. At this point, the Olympics aren't important enough for me to worry about when they hold it.

That question about what happened during a past Olympics is interesting, though.
What's fair is fair.
 
photopilot
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:02 am

I'm sorry, but I say FORGET IT. Athletics, be they the Olympics or otherwise are Secular and not religious events.

What happens with Fasting Periods (Ramadan I believe) when it falls during NFL season, or Baseball season, or the European soccer season, or any other professional athletic competition you can think of? Or are you telling me that there simply are NO MUSLIMS involved in ANY professional sports competitions in the world.

Does the entire sporting world stop in the Muslim world during the month long Ramadan?

Let them protest all they want. If they CHOOSE not to compete, then I respect their decision. But the whold world does not have to stop because of the teachings of ONE religions group. When will the rest of us simply stop backing up our lives because it's politically correct or they whine about it.

Enough is enough.

Sport is sport
Religion is religion.
Keep them separate and keep church and state separate.

rant over!
 
art
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 21):
But there are huge amounts of Muslim athletes, and alienating them because Ramadan clashes with the Olympics goes against the spirit of the Olympics.

The spirit of the modern Olympics is one of uniting sportsmen and sportswomen in entirely secular competition. While I sympathise with those who observe religious practices that leave them at a disadvantage in the Olympics, that is a price they have to pay.
 
Mir
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting QR332 (Reply 21):
You can't skip fasting and redo it whenever you feel like it, you need a legitimate reason such as needing to take medication, travelling long distances, etc.

Well, here's a legitimate reason: you're competing in an athletic endeavour that requires you to get proper nutrition. Or you're travelling long distances to watch said endeavor. Problem solved (maybe not entirely, but there is going to be no solution that makes everybody happy).

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 29):
Athletics, be they the Olympics or otherwise are Secular and not religious events.

 checkmark  If people object that much to the Olympics during Ramadan, they can just not participate.

-Mir
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halls120
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 11):
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 9):The entire Olympics became a bit of a joke when they gave them to the communist, human-rights-abusing Chinese.
They've been a joke for alot longer than that!

The Olympics lost their luster a long time ago. Between allowing professional athletes to compete, the bribes accepted for getting the winning bid, and the rampant doping that goes on, the Olympic Creed rings hollow.

Just another event made for television so that athletes can get rich. I'm not suggesting they be disbanded, I just don't think they are the special event they used to be.
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xwizard
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:47 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 23):
Did you see "Chariots of Fire" ? Part of the story revolved around a deeply religious Christian runner who refused to compete in the final of his event because it was held on a Sunday. IIRC he didn't run, he didn't win, oh well, never mind - LOOOOO-ZEERRRRR !

Close....so no biscuit for you!!

Plot Summary for
Chariots of Fire (1981) (courtesy of IMDB)

The story, told in flashback, of two young British sprinters competing for fame in the 1924 Olympics. Eric, a devout Scottish missionary runs because he knows it must please God. Harold, the son of a newly rich Jew runs to prove his place in Cambridge society. In a warmup 100 meter race, Eric defeats Harold, who hires a pro trainer to prepare him. Eric, whose qualifying heat is scheduled for a Sunday, refuses to run despite pressure from the Olympic committee. A compromise is reached when a nobleman allows Eric to compete in his 400 meter slot. Eric and Harold win their respective races and go on to achieve fame as missionary and businessman/athletic advocate, respectively.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:31 pm

Schedule the Olympics at a time agreed upon by IOC . . .

Althletes show up or they don't.

Athletes participate or they don't.

Wonder if they'll have Olympic Ping Pong again.  sarcastic 

The Olympics are pretty the UN of the sports world. Used to be dynamite to watch, some really great stuff, now just gets kinda boring.
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ltbewr
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:17 pm

This was a serious mistake in planning by the London Olympic Committee. I would assume they didn't include persons of the Islamic faith on their committee, although they should have.
They should reschedule so the games will be held after Ramadam, although perhaps the first few days could overlap when few competitions would occur.
 
galapagapop
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RE: 2012 Olympic Schedule Said To Clash With Fasting

Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
You ever go out on Christmas?

That's simply a figurehead for the season. Its been a celebration time for centuries in dozens of cultures, Christian or not and as it be with the Romans it's seeded well into current day calenders, and seeing majority rules you can even see now in non-Christian/western cultures such as India that they are as well running on Western time where they get off at Christmas.

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