7474ever
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The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:09 am

The Union Jack, as far as I know is a combination of the english and the scottish flag simbolising the union between the two countries back some 300 years ago. No...what about the Welsh ? Why their flag is not represented in Great Britain's flag ?

Thanks,
Srul  wave 
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:22 am

From FOTW:

It is often noted that there is no representation of the Welsh flag on the Union Jack or Royal Standard. The reasons for this are historical - when Edward I defeated Llewelyn, he included Wales in an amalgamated kingdom, and made his son, the future Edward II the Prince of Wales. Edward, Prince of Wales', flag was quartered red lion on yellow and yellow lion on red, and is known as the flag of Llewelyn. This flag, with an escutcheon of a green shield with a crown, is used today by Charles as Prince of Wales. The emblem of three feathers and the motto "Ich Dien" was not acquired until the time of Henry I's grandson, who slew the king of Bohemia and assumed his arms.

Robin Ashburner, ICV York, July 2001
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7474ever
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:29 am

Wow ! Thanks a lot ! Are you really from Portugal ?  Wink
 
WrenchBender
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:31 am

BTW the Irish are represented on the 'Union Flag' it therefore represents 3 of the 4 'countries' that make up the UK of GB.
The cross of St Patrick is represented, it is red diagonal cross on a white field and was added in 1801.

WrenchBender
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7474ever
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:37 am

Llewelyn is Wales in welsh ? If it is, what iis Cymry or Camry or something like that ?

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 1):
when Edward I defeated Llewelyn

When was that ?
 
IFEMaster
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:39 am

Here's a test...which way up is the right way up, assuming the Union Jack is flying from left to right?
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andz
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 5):
Here's a test...which way up is the right way up, assuming the Union Jack is flying from left to right?

In the lower and upper left quadrants, the wider white stripe (either side of the diagonal red) must be at the top.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
7474ever
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:44 am

Well, no idea about that. But I have a question for you instead. Some of the british a.netters fly the union jack, some of them the english, scottish, welsh flag. Now the ones that fly their own countries falg (eng., scot. etc.) most probably feel more "english", "scottish" and "welsh" than british. What about the ones that fly the union jack ? They feel...just "british" ?
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:47 am

Further to my last answer:

The British Union Jack was formed by the union of the flags of Scotland and England when the crowns of Scotland and England were united in 1605 by the accession of James VI of Scotland to the throne of England (as James I of England). Thus we have the "United Kingdom". Wales was already subsumed as a principality in England long before that, so was never considered to have a "portion" of the flag. That is why we talk about the Principality of Wales, but the Kingdom of Scotland.

Wales was united with England under the Statute of Wales, passed on 19 February 1284. Union with England was entrenched with the passage of Acts in 1535 and 1543 whereby parliamentary taxation was extended to Wales, and English common law applied in the principality.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 5):
Here's a test...which way up is the right way up, assuming the Union Jack is flying from left to right?

St Patricks cross isn't centred, it more off to right if you imagine it would rotate anti-clockwise towards St Andrews part. Sorry, that sounds incomprehensible!

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 4):
When was that ?

1277 I think, but I wasn't there.
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7474ever
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 8):


The British Union Jack was formed by the union of the flags of Scotland and England when the crowns of Scotland and England were united in 1605 by the accession of James VI of Scotland to the throne of England (as James I of England). Thus we have the "United Kingdom". Wales was already subsumed as a principality in England long before that, so was never considered to have a "portion" of the flag. That is why we talk about the Principality of Wales, but the Kingdom of Scotland.

Wales was united with England under the Statute of Wales, passed on 19 February 1284. Union with England was entrenched with the passage of Acts in 1535 and 1543 whereby parliamentary taxation was extended to Wales, and English common law applied in the principality.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 5):
Here's a test...which way up is the right way up, assuming the Union Jack is flying from left to right?

St Patricks cross isn't centred, it more off to right if you imagine it would rotate anti-clockwise towards St Andrews part. Sorry, that sounds incomprehensible!

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 4):
When was that ?

1277 I think, but I wasn't there.

Thanks a lot. Very professional answer. BTW, is there a northen irish flag ?
 
andz
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 9):
BTW, is there a northen irish flag ?

There is indeed, the red hand of Ulster!

http://www.flags.net/NOIR.htm
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
strasserb
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 8):
1277 I think, but I wasn't there.

Skidmarks should know it. As far as I remember he was a contemporary witness by then .... But that was before my time.
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 9):
is there a northen irish flag

The official flag of Northern Ireland is the Union flag. The one with a hand in the middle is technically no longer in use. When UK changed the law to permit national symbols (and the EU ring of stars) on the number plates, the red hand of Ulster was specifically excluded.
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7474ever
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 7):
Some of the british a.netters fly the union jack, some of them the english, scottish, welsh flag. Now the ones that fly their own countries falg (eng., scot. etc.) most probably feel more "english", "scottish" and "welsh" than british. What about the ones that fly the union jack ? They feel...just "british" ?

Some of you maybe can answer this one...
 
strasserb
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 7):
Some of the british a.netters fly the union jack, some of them the english, scottish, welsh flag.

... and as already requested several times in other threads, I still want to have my private German "Hessen" flag.
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
7474ever
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 14):
... and as already requested several times in other threads, I still want to have my private German "Hessen" flag.

Which one is that ? The one from WWI ?
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 15):
Which one is that ? The one from WWI ?



Um, I think he means his flag from the State of Hessen...
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IFEMaster
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 13):
Some of you maybe can answer this one...

Sure. From my perspective, its a habit I picked up actually when I lived in Scotland. The Scots are pretty passionate about St. Andrew's Cross, and rightly so - it identifies their unique, individual, and important part of the United Kingdom. Likewise, I started viewing St. George's Cross in a similar way. I'm British, and I'm English. And I'm sure that's not the view everyone holds, but it is the view I hold. Other people prefer to just use the Union Jack, and that's fine as well.

I also like the simplicity of it over the Union Jack.
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TWFirst
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 4):
Llewelyn is Wales in welsh ? If it is, what iis Cymry or Camry or something like that ?

No, Cymru is Wales in Welsh. I think Llewelyn (or however it's spelled) is Cardiff.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
strasserb
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 15):
Which one is that ? The one from WWI ?



Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 16):
Um, I think he means his flag from the State of Hessen...

Yes of course, I never was a "King of Hesse" ...
Here's the flag: http://www.fahnenversand.de/shop/id/156/nr/detailansicht.htm
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
7474ever
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:19 am

What's the story of the Hessen falg ?
 
strasserb
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 20):
What's the story of the Hessen falg ?

I'm not sure if Hessen was a serious member of the FALG, but you might check it out here: http://www.falg.org/
 yes 
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
andz
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 18):
think Llewelyn (or however it's spelled) is Cardiff.

Cardiff in Welsh is Caerdydd
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
7474ever
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 22):
Llewelyn

might be the welsh king
 
TWFirst
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 22):
Cardiff in Welsh is Caerdydd

Caerdydd who? Who did Caer do?  Wink

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 23):



[quote=7474ever,reply=23]might be the welsh king

There was no Welsh king... it's a principality.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: The Union Jack - Question

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:48 pm

Quoting 7474ever (Reply 23):
Llewelyn

might be the welsh king

Under the following link you can find full info :
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....lies/lewelling/prnc_llewellyn.html

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