prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:26 pm

I still can't quite figure out why I was bothered by this. At the gym last night, I was using one of the two squat racks and two early 20's black men were using the other one. They were talking quite a bit, and it did not escape my notice that they were constantly using the word "nigger" (or "nigga," as they pronounced it). They were using it casually in their conversation, not in an angry sense. I was close enough to hear them easily, and they must have known that I could hear.
There's no obvious reason why I was bothered by their talk, after all I'm not black. In fact, I briefly considered asking them not to talk that way in my presence, but held back because they'd probably think I was nuts ("Why would that offend you?") But still, I certainly don't use that word, and don't think anyone else should regardless of race.
Was it strange that I was bothered by their talking that way?
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:32 pm

No. I also find the use of that word offensive, also regardless of race. However, Im also told by many of my friends (many black) that it is a casual word now, not meant for negative racial connotations, merely racial connotations, many times positive. But I just can't find it in me to use it, it makes me feel dirty somehow. It's just how I was raised, and I don't think my train of thought will ever change. It has been by my friends (again, most of them black) used several times in the company of friends, but I have never slandered anyone with it, and Ive decided I don't like the word. Period.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:28 pm

You don't have to be black to find racism offensive.

The thing is, as I'm sure you are aware, in certain context, and between individuals, it is meant as a generic term and at times a term of endearment. I guess the question is, should terms of endearment that have the possibility to offend be used in public conversation?

eg, if I used the X-rated, bedroom version term of endearment I use for my wife in public conversation......well, it would make for a very different dinner party....

I'm with you, the "n" word, even in a non-racist context, needs to be within a closed group, not for public ears
 
strasserb
Posts: 1497
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:46 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:39 pm

I wonder how a hotel general manager contributes to a topic related to racism or offensive terms using this signature:

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 2):
I'll use your head as a bucket and paint my house with your brains

Is the meaning supposed to be "funny" and did I only misunderstand it?
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:14 pm

I personally don't like the word either, but note two interesting points.

1. The actual origins of the word, and how it was originally used, was not in a derogatory sense, but over time, it came to be just that.

2. Some black people use it among themselves, a black guy speaking to a black guy, however should a white guy, or someone from another race address a black guy in that manner, it would most likely be taken offensively.

P.S. I am black Big grin
There is something special about planes....
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:41 pm

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 3):

LOL!!

Seeing as we're on the topic of racism, can I use a classic stereotype to repond to your question?? ie I would never expect an up tight German to understand my, or anybody's sense of humour!!

Loosen up my friend. It's a line from "The Simpsons", Moe, (one of my favourite characters)
 
strasserb
Posts: 1497
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:46 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:37 pm

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 5):
Loosen up my friend. It's a line from "The Simpsons", Moe, (one of my favourite characters)

Oh, now that I know ....  white 
Thank you.
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
Slovacek747
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:10 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:45 pm

I'm white as can be and use the nigger word. we are what we are.. i'm a cracker and i dont care if people call me that.. the word was acceptable back in the day and my grandpa and I use it all the time. No reason it has to mean its derogatory in today's society.

Slovacek747
 
vikinga346
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:45 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:35 pm

Personally, I think the word should be regarded as vulgar, universally. Nobody should use it - whether it is between black people or even worse, between races.

Whether the word is nigg*r or ni**a, it doesn't matter. Just don't use the word, period. Unfortunately we can't snap our fingers and see the word disappear.

[Edited 2006-10-21 13:02:59]
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6580
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:52 pm

I posted something like this a few months ago. I came across this website in the NYT, which made alot of sense to me. This is a group of African Americans who're trying to make the vulgarity of the word universal.
http://www.banthenword.org/
Made from jets!
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:56 pm

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 7):
I'm white as can be and use the nigger word. we are what we are.. i'm a cracker and i dont care if people call me that.. the word was acceptable back in the day and my grandpa and I use it all the time. No reason it has to mean its derogatory in today's society.

Yes, but considering your other posts on here, one has to wonder just how non-offensive you actually mean it to be.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
Was it strange that I was bothered by their talking that way?

No. The simplest reason: hypocrasy. They can use it, we can't.

Keep in mind the African Americans I know who are professionals do NOT use the term (at least not in mixed company). IMHO people who use that word are classless.
This space intentionally left blank
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:54 pm

It's always been interesting to me how the use of the word "nigger" is almost universally condemned and considered extremely offensive, yet the same people who find "nigger" offensive wouldn't think twice about using the word "faggot".
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3453
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:14 am

I'd be uncomfortable with that. I've never heard a clean-cut or "friendly" black person use the word "nigga". When I hear a black person using that word freely I definitely don't feel safe being around them.

[Edited 2006-10-21 17:17:15]
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11804
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:34 am

I've had some black friends who used it, and some who didn't. Personally, I couldn't care less either way. In fact, I probably could have said it around them and they wouldn't have cared.

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 11):
Well they certainly have their issues and aren't quite up to par with the white European race but thats for another topic.

"They" meaning African-Americans? Way to make stupid blanket statements.

~Vik
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 13):
faggot

Ive never known anyone to be offended by that. BTW, i believe in the dictionary, a definition as a gay person isnt listed. It is a bundle of sticks.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 16):
Ive never known anyone to be offended by that. BTW, i believe in the dictionary, a definition as a gay person isnt listed

1) You're obviously not gay. 2) What's in the dictionary is completely irrelevant. If Webster's takes "nigger" out of the dictionary, does that mean the word suddenly has no meaning?
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
coiah756ca
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:31 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:35 am

I always thought young African-American males used the term frequently.

Rap songs these days have the word at least 20 times in the song.

My $.02
Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN
 
UK_Dispatcher
Posts: 2254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:44 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:19 am

I actually think that in the USA the word is not necessarily offensive. Okay - it will be deemed offensive in general for many years to come, but as it becomes more and more of a casual word I think it will eventually become acceptable - in an affectionate way of course.

I mean, look at the amount of times the word bugger is used in the UK. "Ya daft bugger" etc. The word is used non-offensively on most occasions, but just think where the word came from originally!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):

I think the best line I've heard on this subject is from Coach Carter (Samuel L. Jackson) in the movie Coach Carter. Not the exact quote as it's been a while since I've seen it, but:
"Nigger was a derogatory term used torward our ancestors, and by using it amongst yourselves, you give the white man a reason to use it too."--something to that effect.
If anyone has the movie and wants to pop in the movie to get the exact quote and correct this, feel free to do so.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 7):



Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 11):

 laughing  Wow. I don't know what to say..........

I don't find it offensive unless it's someone from another race. Why? True, when the word was first used in the United States, the N word wasn't originally considered offensive, but a denotative of black. This was the case in much of the world as well. However, the N word evolved into a derogatory term to refer to Black people as inferior, lazy, stupid, and criminally inclined by other races.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
kmh1956
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:08 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 13):
yet the same people who find "nigger" offensive wouldn't think twice about using the word "faggot".

I don't use either term. I find both offensive....and I'm white..and straight.
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 7):
I'm white as can be and use the nigger word. we are what we are.. i'm a cracker and i dont care if people call me that.. the word was acceptable back in the day and my grandpa and I use it all the time. No reason it has to mean its derogatory in today's society.

The word may have not been derogative at the beginning. But we all know how that changed over time. It was used in a derogative way, esp. during the height of a racially tense America. Don't be naive, and pretend you do not know that. And judging by you post, it seems you may have some racist tendancy, but then I don't know you, so I shouldn't say that. I sincerely hope you are joking though.

To avoid all controversy no one should use that word, white people, nor black people nor anyone in between. There are many other words in the dictionary to be used.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 22):
I don't use either term. I find both offensive....and I'm white..and straight.

I agree with you.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 14):
I'd be uncomfortable with that. I've never heard a clean-cut or "friendly" black person use the word "nigga".

HEHE I like how you stated that. But you are correct, better said only certain types of people tend to use the word. The young hiphop/rap 'wanna be' crowd. I can't imagine my father saying that word. I am laughing at the though.
There is something special about planes....
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:28 am

I wouldn't find it offensive at all. Now if I saw a white person calling a black person nigger, that would be offensive. But the word is used to offend black people, at the hands of white people, if black people want to call themselves that, that's their business I guess. It doesn't really make them sound all that intelligent, but that's not my concern.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 12):
o. The simplest reason: hypocrasy. They can use it, we can't.

 checkmark 
Mr. Ted, you have hit the nail on the head here.

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 24):
I wouldn't find it offensive at all. Now if I saw a white person calling a black person nigger, that would be offensive.

In other words, you support hypocrisy.
Black people using the words tells me they must not find it all that offensive, and thus they shouldn't get angry should someone else use it. If they don't like it being used, they shouldn't use it themselves, plain and simple.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 14):
I've never heard a clean-cut or "friendly" black person use the word "nigga".

They also don't speak ebonics, wear "gangsta" style clothes, or wear the massive "bling-bling". They speak clear English and dress professionally and they don't act like the world owes them a favor. I can assure you I would never hire anyone who was looking for a job who used the word "nigga" or "nigger" or the like.

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 18):
Rap songs these days have the word at least 20 times in the song.

Along with "Bitch/Bitches" and "Ho's" and a friendly message of killing cops or using drugs or capping some "nigga n da hood" or slapping some "ho's".
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 26):
In other words, you support hypocrisy.
Black people using the words tells me they must not find it all that offensive, and thus they shouldn't get angry should someone else use it. If they don't like it being used, they shouldn't use it themselves, plain and simple.

 no 
Why do you say 'they' as if all black people are the same person?

I don't find it offensive unless it's someone from another race. Why? True, when the word was first used in the United States, the N word wasn't originally considered offensive, but a denotative of black. This was the case in much of the world as well. However, the N word evolved into a derogatory term to refer to Black people as inferior, lazy, stupid, and criminally inclined by other races.

You have to realize that it's not so much about the word, but more about the intentions and meanings behind it. There is so much negative history behind white people using the N word. Many white people still use the word in a hateful manner. So it's not as obvious what the intent is when a non-black person uses it. Also, it's not the same meaning when a black person uses the word because a black person most likely wouldn't use the word in the same hateful manner as someone from another race would.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
Duff44
Posts: 1561
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:48 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:32 pm

Why (some, not all) African American call each other "nigger" I will never know. They've spent hundreds of years trying to eradicate that word, and yet that is what they call themselves.

Is it a reflection of what they think other people think about them? I would hope not.

And yet less people are shocked by this word. If two Jews were calling each other "kike", it would probably draw a lot more attention, which is sad.
I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 26):
In other words, you support hypocrisy.

People are going to be hyppocritical whether I support it or not, which I don't. However, I would not be offended if two people use a word in conversation with each other, when that word is only meant to offend the people in the conversation.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 26):
Black people using the words tells me they must not find it all that offensive, and thus they shouldn't get angry should someone else use it. If they don't like it being used, they shouldn't use it themselves, plain and simple.

I'm not going to use it, that's my choice. If others want to, that's theirs.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 4):
2. Some black people use it among themselves, a black guy speaking to a black guy, however should a white guy, or someone from another race address a black guy in that manner, it would most likely be taken offensively.

well said.
Even more revealing, if blacks call Caucasians "whitey" or other terms meant as deregatory that's perfectly fine with the PC police.
If a Caucasian even thinks of calling a black a nigger they fall all over him and brand him a racist.

If a Caucasian defines equal rights as being equal instead of granting special privileges to blacks he's for some reason also branded a racist...
I wish I were flying
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5015
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:26 pm

If I have a african good friend and say - Yo, whazzup nigga´ would he be offended or would he just laugh? I wouldn´t get offended if he said -Im fine, U white faggot...we´re friends and the conversation can be bitchy.

I dont know if that´s an Afro-American phrase. I mean, as long as we hear it in movies MTV etc. the n-word would never go away?

From an old European.
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
PureKiwi
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:44 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:42 pm

In my area its fine for a black to use Nigga even when there putting down other blacks but as soon as a white person uses Nigga everyone acts like you've just committed murder.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:49 pm

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 31):
If I have a african good friend and say - Yo, whazzup nigga´ would he be offended or would he just laugh? I wouldn´t get offended if he said -Im fine, U white faggot...we´re friends and the conversation can be bitchy.

I dont know if that´s an Afro-American phrase. I mean, as long as we hear it in movies MTV etc. the n-word would never go away?

From an old European.

Now I am (seriously) curious. How many black people do you know up there in Sweden, and how many of them have had to do deal with racial prejudice.

The vast majority of blacks who are using the word "nigger" to each other are not from the generation who fought for civil rights. I mean, I can't recall Dr. King stating refering to blacks as "niggas" or "niggers" in his "I Have a Dream" speech.

Ever see the video clip of one African American who had been drafted protesting the Vietnam War where he asks "Why are they sending the black man to fight the yellow man when the yellow man ain't never called us 'nigger'. "? That should tell you everything you need to know on the subject.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 30):
well said.
Even more revealing, if blacks call Caucasians "whitey" or other terms meant as deregatory that's perfectly fine with the PC police.
If a Caucasian even thinks of calling a black a nigger they fall all over him and brand him a racist.

If a Caucasian defines equal rights as being equal instead of granting special privileges to blacks he's for some reason also branded a racist...

 checkmark 

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 29):
I'm not going to use it, that's my choice. If others want to, that's theirs.

Then those same people need not bitch when other people use the same word.  Yeah sure It's either an offensive, derogatory racist term, or it isn't.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 33):
It's either an offensive, derogatory racist term, or it isn't.

It is offensive, derogatory and racist to African Americans. That's why I don't use the term. Now being a white caucasian, it's not offensive to me, because it is not directed at me.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:36 pm

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 34):
It is offensive, derogatory and racist to African Americans. That's why I don't use the term. Now being a white caucasian, it's not offensive to me, because it is not directed at me.

Exactly.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 33):
Blah Blah Blah

If you don't understand why it's offensive for a White person to call an African-American the N word, well, then DeltaJets you've shown another great example of why History classes need to be changed.

Dave

[Edited 2006-10-22 08:37:46]
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:46 pm

It may be pure hypocrisy, it may be silly, it may be whatever.

But understand for those of you don't... If a black person calls a black person a nigger, while a derogative way to refer to a person, it will NEVER EVER be equated to a white person calling a black person a nigger. NEVER.

I mean we can debate on this forever but that is the reality of the situation. I mean who here doesn't know the history of black and white people especially in America? Are we all being that naive. I don't care whether you are from New Zealand, Malaysia, Japan, England, Africa or America, I am black, do not call me a nigger, I would take it as a very serious offense. I also prefer that other black people don't call me that either. Thankfully I don't associate with people speak like that. I mean to each his own, but that is just not my style.

BTW, faggots, cracker, wetbacks, spicks whatever other names there are out there as just as bad. I mean what is wrong with 'F*****G humans. Why can't we just get along. Why the names.. What does that really do to help? I know i am the one being naive, but honestly the human race sucks in these aspects.

[Edited 2006-10-22 08:52:00]
There is something special about planes....
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:50 pm

It is totally hypocritical to me because they are trying to make a positive out of one of the most negative things ever conceived.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 34):
If you don't understand why it's offensive for a White person to call an African-American the N word, well, then DeltaJets you've shown another great example of why History classes need to be changed.

Way to try to completely twist what I stated you tool (Only helped by the fact that you didn't really quote my statement, just filled it in with "blah blah blah").
I understand completely why it is wrong for white people to call black people a nigger or "nigga." I don't refer to anyone as a nigger, be they black, white, Hispanic, etc. In fact, I just avoid using the word.
What I fail to see is why black people who once found a word so demeaning use it amongst themselves now in everyday language. (Well, I guess I shouldn't imply "all" black people. "Respectable" Blacks who want to make something positive of their lives don't use the word amongst themselves.)

Maybe instead of suggesting that we change history classes to reflect this, we should put more emphasis on reading comprehension classes so that people like you can better understand what other people are saying.  Yeah sure
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:41 am

   You are so blatantly ignorant it's funny. Actually, sad at the same time.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 36):
What I fail to see is why black people who once found a word so demeaning use it amongst themselves now in everyday language. (Well, I guess I shouldn't imply "all" black people. "Respectable" Blacks who want to make something positive of their lives don't use the word amongst themselves.)

It's been explained many times on this thread. You say I need reading comprehension? Pot. Kettle. Black. Oh wait, is the Pot or Kettle one of those "respectable Blacks?"

"Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives"   . Who the hell do you think you are? What I find hilarious is you talk tough on the internet, but I guarantee you that you wouldn't say what you're saying to an African American person. Have you ever worked with a Black person? Had more than 2 Black friends? Learned about Black history? It's obvious from your posts that the answer to all of these questions is no. So where do you have the audacity to judge African Americans who choose to use the N word as people who are not respectable and don't want to make something positive out of their lives?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 24):
They also don't speak ebonics, wear "gangsta" style clothes, or wear the massive "bling-bling". They speak clear English and dress professionally and they don't act like the world owes them a favor. I can assure you I would never hire anyone who was looking for a job who used the word "nigga" or "nigger" or the like.

   I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you.......you'll learn one day.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 36):
I understand completely why it is wrong for white people to call black people a nigger or "nigga."

Really? Doesn't sound like it........

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 24):
Black people using the words tells me they must not find it all that offensive, and thus they shouldn't get angry should someone else use it. If they don't like it being used, they shouldn't use it themselves, plain and simple.



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 36):
I don't refer to anyone as a nigger, be they black, white, Hispanic, etc. In fact, I just avoid using the word.

Yeah looks like you've avoided using it a lot on this thread.........

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 24):
nigger



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 31):
nigger



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 31):
niggers



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 36):
nigger



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 36):
nigger

   Pathetic.

Dave

[Edited 2006-10-23 01:43:03]

[Edited 2006-10-23 01:44:39]
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 37):
"Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives" . Who the hell do you think you are? What I find hilarious is you talk tough on the internet, but I guarantee you that you wouldn't say what you're saying to an African American person. Have you ever worked with a Black person? Had more than 2 Black friends? Learned about Black history? It's obvious from your posts that the answer to all of these questions is no. So where do you have the audacity to judge African Americans who choose to use the N word as people who are not respectable and don't want to make something positive out of their lives?

Let me tell you something, Davestan... If he actually answered those questions, you would probably say "working with a black person... having 2 black friends... learning about black history... etc. doesn't qualify you to 'know' blacks." Speaking of history, I know those arguments. You're baiting a trap as well as anyone else who race-baits.

It is just as easy for you to be a hypocrite as anyone else. You are defending use of a word that 90% of all people in the U.S. have been raised to think of as offensive, regardless of their race. In this case, I think majority rules.

You want to be treated with respect? Choose your words accordingly - and come to know the difference between usage of words for arguments' sake and use of words with negative intent.
Up, up and away!
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 38):
Let me tell you something, Davestan... If he actually answered those questions, you would probably say "working with a black person... having 2 black friends... learning about black history... etc. doesn't qualify you to 'know' blacks." Speaking of history, I know those arguments. You're baiting a trap as well as anyone else who race-baits.

That's actually not what I was getting at.....sorry for the confusion.

I was trying to say if he had worked with Black People, Hung around Black People, got to know African American history and culture he wouldn't be saying the things he is.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 38):
It is just as easy for you to be a hypocrite as anyone else. You are defending use of a word that 90% of all people in the U.S. have been raised to think of as offensive, regardless of their race. In this case, I think majority rules.

And the same majority would realise how ignorant his posts are.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 38):
You want to be treated with respect? Choose your words accordingly - and come to know the difference between usage of words for arguments' sake and use of words with negative intent.

That's fine he's using the word for arguments' sake. However, if he thought it was so offensive why not simply say "The N word?"

I'll say it again about intent:

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 25):
You have to realize that it's not so much about the word, but more about the intentions and meanings behind it. There is so much negative history behind white people using the N word. Many white people still use the word in a hateful manner. So it's not as obvious what the intent is when a non-black person uses it. Also, it's not the same meaning when a black person uses the word because a black person most likely wouldn't use the word in the same hateful manner as someone from another race would.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 37):
Yeah looks like you've avoided using it a lot on this thread.........

Anyone with an IQ greater than single digits could figure out that there's a difference between using the word in the argument and using it as a term to actually refer to someone. More twisting of the arguments from Dave. Surprise Surprise.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 37):
"Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives" . Who the hell do you think you are? What I find hilarious is you talk tough on the internet, but I guarantee you that you wouldn't say what you're saying to an African American person.

Gee, I can't say I hear Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell referring to each other as "nigger" in conversation.
And yes, I have discussed this with some black friends. In fact, I've had African-American friends feel nothing but disgust when they hear other blacks use the word either amongst themselves or to other white people.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 37):
Really? Doesn't sound like it........

Read reply 19 pal. Sounds like you need to view the film Coach Carter

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39):
I was trying to say if he had worked with Black People, Hung around Black People, got to know African American history and culture he wouldn't be saying the things he is.

Really? My feeling is if more African Americans knew more about their own history, they wouldn't be using the word "nigger" to describe each other. But then again getting a majority of blacks to learn who their own father is would be a start. Then we could move on to history of the African-American culture.(Oh, is that actual fact to racist for you? Too bad)

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 37):
I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you.......you'll learn one day.

I'll learn? Or will they learn one day when speaking ebonics isn't the best way to speak to an interview panel?

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 37):
It's obvious from your posts that the answer to all of these questions is no. So where do you have the audacity to judge African Americans who choose to use the N word as people who are not respectable and don't want to make something positive out of their lives?

Gee maybe because throughout my life, the blacks that I've met who speak proper English, don't refer to each other as "Nigger" or "nigga", dress in a semi=professional manner are the blacks with better grades and don't act like the world owes them a favor and are generally able to see past race on all or most issues.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39):
That's fine he's using the word for argument's sake. However, if he thought it was so offensive why not simply say "The N word?"

Because even if you type it as "The N-word" or as "n****r" or as "n***a", everyone still knows what you're saying, and it all reads the same.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 37):
Have you ever worked with a Black person? Had more than 2 Black friends? Learned about Black history? It's obvious from your posts that the answer to all of these questions is no.

 Yeah sure
Typical pinko-commi response when the issue of race comes up. You all think the same. It's sad really. "Have you ever worked with black people? Do you have any black friends?"....like they actually expect the answer to those questions to be "no", but even when the answer is "yes", as Redngold pointed out, that's not "good enough".

Quoting Redngold (Reply 38):

Thanks for having some common sense and a sense of decency. Always nice to see not everyone is way out in left field with people like Dave.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39):
And the same majority would realise how ignorant his posts are.

That's why you're the only one giving me shit about the subject. Okay. Whatever you say.  Yeah sure
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Really? My feeling is if more African Americans knew more about their own history, they wouldn't be using the word "nigger" to describe each other. But then again getting a majority of blacks to learn who their own father is would be a start. Then we could move on to history of the African-American culture.(Oh, is that actual fact to racist for you? Too bad)

Ok you didnt have to go so far about the father thing. I mean we are getting little hot headed here.

I don't know who is black here and who isn,t but for the record I am black. And I actually agree with DeltaJets on a number of things. He is very correct, in that there are lot of black people especially well informed once (trying to be politically correct here) that do not like to refered to as nigger, by white people nor black. I said that earlier in the post. I am on of those people.

But the fact of the matter there are some black Americans, and I don't know of other countries where there is such racial mix, but in the US there are some blacks that have some serious issues to resolve. There is a very clear distinction between well off black folk and not so well to do black folk in the US. It is sad but it true. And it has somewhat of a domino effect, resulting in that the poor stays poor. But this distinction plays out in the choice of vocabulary including the use of the word 'Nigger." Am I lying?

Yes it is just another word, but the fact of the matter is, that the word has ties to a very ugly history. It should not be used, plain and simple, neither by black americans nor other races.

It is how I feel about the matter.
There is something special about planes....
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:26 am

 banghead 

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Anyone with an IQ greater than single digits could figure out that there's a difference between using the word in the argument and using it as a term to actually refer to someone. More twisting of the arguments from Dave. Surprise Surprise.

Again:

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39):
That's fine he's using the word for arguments' sake. However, if he thought it was so offensive why not simply say "The N word?"

But you say:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Because even if you type it as "The N-word" or as "n****r" or as "n***a", everyone still knows what you're saying, and it all reads the same.

This is probably your best argument, but it's not true in all cases.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 36):
I don't refer to anyone as a nigger, be they black, white, Hispanic, etc. In fact, I just avoid using the word.

as opposed to: "I don't use the N word at any time."

It's about respect.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Gee maybe because throughout my life, the blacks that I've met who speak proper English, don't refer to each other as "Nigger" or "nigga", dress in a semi=professional manner are the blacks with better grades and don't act like the world owes them a favor and are generally able to see past race on all or most issues.

I know black people who use the N word who speak proper English, dress in a professional manner, make the Dean's list, don't act like the world owes them a favor, and are educated enough to realize when somethings about race, and when it is not. I also know black people who use the N word that don't use "proper english," don't dress in a professional manner, don't get good grades, think the world owes them something, and don't see past race.

The difference is Fly that I have the mental capacity to differentiate between the said group of people and don't think every black person that uses the N word is the same.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Gee, I can't say I hear Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell referring to each other as "nigger" in conversation.
And yes, I have discussed this with some black friends. In fact, I've had African-American friends feel nothing but disgust when they hear other blacks use the word either amongst themselves or to other white people.

And that's fine. What I have a problem with is when you stereotype all African American People who choose to use the N word as people who aren't "Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives."

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Read reply 19 pal. Sounds like you need to view the film Coach Carter

 rotfl  the fact that you had to watch Coach Carter to find that out says a lot about you.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Really? My feeling is if more African Americans knew more about their own history, they wouldn't be using the word "nigger" to describe each other. But then again getting a majority of blacks to learn who their own father is would be a start. Then we could move on to history of the African-American culture.(Oh, is that actual fact to racist for you? Too bad)

There you go again with the stereotypes saying most Black people don't know who their fathers are. You just don't get it do you? I'd like to see you tell a black person about his or her history.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
I'll learn? Or will they learn one day when speaking ebonics isn't the best way to speak to an interview panel?

Again with the stereotypes. How many times have you been in an interview panel where "they" (implying all Black people) speak ebonics?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Typical pinko-commi response when the issue of race comes up. You all think the same. It's sad really. "Have you ever worked with black people? Do you have any black friends?"....like they actually expect the answer to those questions to be "no", but even when the answer is "yes", as Redngold pointed out, that's not "good enough".

I worded that wrong. Sorry.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 39):
That's actually not what I was getting at.....sorry for the confusion.

I was trying to say if he had worked with Black People, Hung around Black People, got to know African American history and culture he wouldn't be saying the things he is.



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Thanks for having some common sense and a sense of decency. Always nice to see not everyone is way out in left field with people like Dave.

Man, if people like you are in any other field, God help us.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
That's why you're the only one giving me shit about the subject. Okay. Whatever you say.

I'm not "giving you shit" I'm trying to help you.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 42):
I know black people who use the N word who speak proper English, dress in a professional manner, make the Dean's list, don't act like the world owes them a favor, and are educated enough to realize when somethings about race, and when it is not. I also know black people who use the N word that don't use "proper english," don't dress in a professional manner, don't get good grades, think the world owes them something, and don't see past race.

The difference is Fly that I have the mental capacity to differentiate between the said group of people and don't think every black person that uses the N word is the same.

I know black people like this who have referred to their buddies as "nigger" too. But that certainly doesn't make them the majority of the black people I know who fall into this category.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 42):
And that's fine. What I have a problem with is when you stereotype all African American People who choose to use the N word as people who aren't "Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives."

Again, of the black people I know, those who still use the word "nigger" and yet are still trying to make something positive of their life, they are a minority.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 42):
Man, if people like you are in any other field, God help us.

Yea, I know. Thinking people should refer to each as "Sir" or "Ma'am" or "Mr." or "Miss" or "Mrs." or "Ms" or by their name or a term with a history slightly less demeaning than "nigger" is such a bad thing. God, we all know how more screwed up this world would be if people were more polite to each other.  Yeah sure

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 42):
Again with the stereotypes. How many times have you been in an interview panel where "they" (implying all Black people) speak ebonics?

No. "They" implied all black people who speak ebonics on a regular basis, not all black people. You know that, you're just looking for more ways to twist the facts and try to label me as a racist.
I can assure you if I am on an interview panel and the guy being interviewed addresses someone else on the panel as "Yo, waddup nigga?" or answers questions in the form of "I be good fo this place becuz...", I'm going to A) Laugh and B) Throw away their application.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 42):
the fact that you had to watch Coach Carter to find that out says a lot about you.

Yea, I know. The biggest enemy of liberals on so many issues: the facts.
Coach Carter is based on the true story of one coach who turned around one high school basketball team not just from an athletic standpoint, but from an academic and social standpoint as well. I realise that these true stories go against your argument and you don't like that, but you'll just have to deal with that.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 42):
There you go again with the stereotypes saying most Black people don't know who their fathers are.

Ah, you see this is not a stereotype but a true fact. A simple internet search shows that anywhere from 56% (Wikipedia) to 70% (Chicago Chronicle) of blacks in the United States are born out of wedlock. You think it's a safe bet that a high percentage of children born out of wedlock wouldn't know who their father was?

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 42):
You just don't get it do you? I'd like to see you tell a black person about his or her history.

I would seriously like to meet more black people who could tell me about their own history. I would probably find it interesting. I've listened to a presentation by and actually met one of the Tuskeegee Airmen and found the stories he told fascinating. I would find listening to a black who marched in a civil rights demonstration interesting as well. And I bet if you asked either how they feel about the use of the word "nigger" in any sense, they would probably only describe disgust for the word in any form.

But like I've already stated numerous times, if more blacks who use the word nigger on a regular basis actually knew and truly understood the history of the word, they probably wouldn't use it.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 41):
Ok you didnt have to go so far about the father thing. I mean we are getting little hot headed here.

I know it was extreme but it was more to draw Dave's attention to sad and unfortunate but still true reality for many blacks here in the United States; an issue that is at the very least, equally important as the issue being discussed.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 41):

That was very well stated Captaink.
Welcome to my RU List.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:02 pm

Again you miss the point. You don't understand why black people call each other the N word. It's been explained to you several times in this thread.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
I know black people like this who have referred to their buddies as "nigger" too. But that certainly doesn't make them the majority of the black people I know who fall into this category.

So that makes it okay to think most black people who use the N word fit in this category?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
Again, of the black people I know, those who still use the word "nigger" and yet are still trying to make something positive of their life, they are a minority.

Again. So that makes it okay to think most black people who use the N word fit in this category?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
Yea, I know. Thinking people should refer to each as "Sir" or "Ma'am" or "Mr." or "Miss" or "Mrs." or "Ms" or by their name or a term with a history slightly less demeaning than "nigger" is such a bad thing. God, we all know how more screwed up this world would be if people were more polite to each other.

Oh you do that? Nice. Good for you. Do you say these things amongst your friends?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
No. "They" implied all black people who speak ebonics on a regular basis, not all black people. You know that, you're just looking for more ways to twist the facts and try to label me as a racist.
I can assure you if I am on an interview panel and the guy being interviewed addresses someone else on the panel as "Yo, waddup nigga?" or answers questions in the form of "I be good fo this place becuz...", I'm going to A) Laugh and B) Throw away their application.

   I'm not twisting the facts to label you a racist. You're doing just fine on your own. Here's what you said:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Or will they learn one day when speaking ebonics isn't the best way to speak to an interview panel?

I'll ask you again. This time I'll make it easier for you:

How many times have you been in an interview panel where Black people are speaking Ebonics?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
Yea, I know. The biggest enemy of liberals on so many issues: the facts.
Coach Carter is based on the true story of one coach who turned around one high school basketball team not just from an athletic standpoint, but from an academic and social standpoint as well. I realise that these true stories go against your argument and you don't like that, but you'll just have to deal with that.

   Oh look, I disagree with you I must be a liberal. Thanks for telling me about the plot of Coach Carter, maybe I'll ask you later for other movie synopses. You missed the point again. The point is you didn't know why black people use the N word until a movie based on a true story came out.....in 2005

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
Ah, you see this is not a stereotype but a true fact. A simple internet search shows that anywhere from 56% (Wikipedia) to 70% (Chicago Chronicle) of blacks in the United States are born out of wedlock. You think it's a safe bet that a high percentage of children born out of wedlock wouldn't know who their father was?

An interesting read on this topic: http://www.zmag.org/Sustainers/Content/2003-02/12wise.cfm

The reason for the increase in the share of black children born out-of-wedlock in recent decades is that two-parent black couples are having fewer children than ever, meaning that a growing share of the children who are born in the black community will be out-of-wedlock, even though sexual behavior hasn't changed, and fertility rates among single black women have been falling.

Indeed, eighty percent of the increase in out-of-wedlock childbirths in the black community is because of the falloff in children born to intact black families: a falloff that has been even steeper than the decline among single moms.

Additionally, the apparent "increase" in out-of-wedlock children in single mother homes within the black community, and generally, is the result of the Census Bureau changing the methods used for counting such families in the first place.

Whereas single moms with kids who lived in extended family settings (such as living with their own parents) were historically not counted as separate family units, since the early 1980's they have been. So even though such families may have existed for many years prior to the accounting switch, they would not have appeared in statistical data until more recently.


Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
I would seriously like to meet more black people who could tell me about their own history. I would probably find it interesting. I've listened to a presentation by and actually met one of the Tuskeegee Airmen and found the stories he told fascinating. I would find listening to a black who marched in a civil rights demonstration interesting as well. And I bet if you asked either how they feel about the use of the word "nigger" in any sense, they would probably only describe disgust for the word in any form.

But like I've already stated numerous times, if more blacks who use the word nigger on a regular basis actually knew and truly understood the history of the word, they probably wouldn't use it.

That's all and good, but it's not your place to judge African Americans who choose to use the N word. Also, it's not your place to judge if Black people who use the N word on a regular basis understand the history of the word.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
I know it was extreme but it was more to draw Dave's attention to sad and unfortunate but still true reality for many blacks here in the United States; an issue that is at the very least, equally important as the issue being discussed.

Actually I'll agree with you here. However I'll say it's a sad reality for many people (regardless of race) here in the United States. Do you agree?

Dave

[Edited 2006-10-23 06:03:55]
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1743
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:30 pm

Haha...remember from the movie called "Rush Hour"...jackie chan met his black policeman. He took Jackie chan to the pub and said "niggers" to his black friends. Jackie chan learnt from him and said "niggers" to black bar man. Then black bar man punched him. LOL!
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:42 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 44):

Oh you do that? Nice. Good for you. Do you say these things amongst your friends?

Let me apologize and retract this statement, as I read your post wrong. You are right about that. However, it is still not your place to judge African Americans who choose to use the N word. Please read this again:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 34):
But understand for those of you don't... If a black person calls a black person a nigger, while a derogative way to refer to a person, it will NEVER EVER be equated to a white person calling a black person a nigger. NEVER.

I mean we can debate on this forever but that is the reality of the situation. I mean who here doesn't know the history of black and white people especially in America? Are we all being that naive. I don't care whether you are from New Zealand, Malaysia, Japan, England, Africa or America, I am black, do not call me a nigger, I would take it as a very serious offense. I also prefer that other black people don't call me that either. Thankfully I don't associate with people speak like that. I mean to each his own, but that is just not my style

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 44):
Again you miss the point. You don't understand why black people call each other the N word. It's been explained to you several times in this thread.

No, the only thing that has been established is that it's not as offensive for a black person to refer to another black person as "nigger" as it is for a white person to refer to a black person as "nigger". Why black would at all use the term in the first place is still a mystery to me. After all, I don't hear the few gay friends that I have refer to each other as "Faggot".

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 44):
Thanks for telling me about the plot of Coach Carter, maybe I'll ask you later for other movie synopses. You missed the point again. The point is you didn't know why black people use the N word until a movie based on a true story came out.....in 2005

This comment is about as pathetic as you asking me if I had more than two black friends or had ever worked with black people.
*BTW, My roommate last year was black. My cousin's girlfriend is black (interracial relationship). I had no problems sharing a hotel room with her at Cedar Point a couple months ago. Two of the black people that worked at the restaurant where I worked this past summer were two of the nicest and hardest working employees there. Not that this probably makes any difference to you.
On this same subject, a few years ago in high school we had to read the book The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. If you've read the book, you know that many people refer to Jim as "nigger" in the book because that's how people referred to black people back when Mark Twain wrote the book. Doesn't make it right, but that's just the way things were back then. After we read the book, we watched this video of about a group of black students (and their parents) in Tempe, AZ who wanted the book banned because the book used the word "nigger". These people talked about how demeaning it was to them to have to read a book where a black person was referred to as "nigger" and how it's brought them down. Now it seems to me if there are black people who want a book banned because it uses the word "nigger", they wouldn't be using it amongst themselves in everyday speech.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 46):
However, it is still not your place to judge African Americans who choose to use the N word. Please read this again:

No, that simply explains A) That black people calling each other nigger is not as serious or offensive as a white person calling a black person a nigger, which I never denied and B) That Captaink does not want to referred to as a nigger by either a black person or a white person. This in NO WAY explains why black people would use a word; it just states that some chose to.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 46):
However, it is still not your place to judge African Americans who choose to use the N word. Please read this again:

People will always judge others. It's a fact of life. People are judged by the way they dress, the way they speak, what terms they use, how they perform, etc. etc. etc.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 44):
How many times have you been in an interview panel where Black people are speaking Ebonics?

I haven't been on an interview panel, I simply stated "if I was". However, I can't say I've gone into an office building and heard blacks refer to each other as "nigger" or speaking much ebonics in the work environment.
But then I have gone to inner city schools for school competitions (this back in high school and middle school) and I kid you not, one school in Macon, GA had on the wall a piece of paper that was basically an ebonics translator and stated that it's still okay to use ebonics in professional settings.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 44):
Also, it's not your place to judge if Black people who use the N word on a regular basis understand the history of the word.

So if a white person didn't understand the history of the word and used it, would this be wrong? You bet it would. This poor guy would have the NAACP and Jesse Jackson knocking at his door. He would hear "You're full of shit" whenever he'd try to state that he truly did not know the meaning behind the word. We'd hear about how this is the downfall of society and that we need more Black History awareness programs to teach whites that nigger is not an acceptable term. I'm sorry. This is the worst thing I've seen yet come out of you.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 44):
Actually I'll agree with you here. However I'll say it's a sad reality for many people (regardless of race) here in the United States. Do you agree?

Yes, I do agree. I think the percentage of children born to single mothers when looking at the nation as a whole is appalling though one cannot deny that sadly the problem is the worst in the black community.

[Edited 2006-10-23 15:41:59]
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:57 am

Good post. You didn't make any stereotypes. See, the difference between your last post and your previous ones was this last post actually had some thought to it. You make good points and I respect them. The main point I'm trying to get across to you is that you should not judge African Americans based upon their preference to use or not use the N word. You can wonder why Black people choose to call themselves that, but you cannot label the Black people who choose to use the word as people who aren't "Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives." You then went off into tangents making blanket statements about African Americans which took away from your point. I think I got caught up in these, and I apologize for not seeing what you're saying. You can't deny that some of the things you have said on this thread were racist. That's plain and simple. I didn't intend to defend the word, but to defend the right of African Americans to choose if they use the word or not. That message might have been less clear, and again I apologize.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 47):
No, the only thing that has been established is that it's not as offensive for a black person to refer to another black person as "nigger" as it is for a white person to refer to a black person as "nigger". Why black would at all use the term in the first place is still a mystery to me. After all, I don't hear the few gay friends that I have refer to each other as "Faggot".

I reviewed the thread and the issue about why Black people would call each other the N word wasn't explained as clearly as it should have been. Here's one reason I've been told:

"As you know calling a black person the N word is a derogatory term meant to oppress black people. To take that power away from people who use the N word to refer to Black people as inferior, lazy, stupid, and criminally inclined, Black people adopted the term to take away the hurtfulness of others referring to them as a N word. If your master beat you with a whip and you took his whip away from him, he can no longer beat you, and he can no longer be your master."

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 47):
*BTW, My roommate last year was black. My cousin's girlfriend is black (interracial relationship). I had no problems sharing a hotel room with her at Cedar Point a couple months ago. Two of the black people that worked at the restaurant where I worked this past summer were two of the nicest and hardest working employees there. Not that this probably makes any difference to you.

Cool, thanks for sharing that. It does make a difference, and I'm glad you don't have a problem sharing a hotel room, working with, having a roomate that is African American, or your cousin dating outside of his race. It's good you can do that. What I meant by that statement about if you had any black friends, etc. (again, I worded it wrongly) is that you would realize how wrong you were about making the statements that you did, and maybe you would know why some African Americans choose to call each other the N word.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 47):
People will always judge others. It's a fact of life. People are judged by the way they dress, the way they speak, what terms they use, how they perform, etc. etc. etc

Which is true of course, but it is different in this case. The difference here is that you assume if a Black person uses the word he or she is not one of the "Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives."

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 47):
I haven't been on an interview panel, I simply stated "if I was". However, I can't say I've gone into an office building and heard blacks refer to each other as "nigger" or speaking much ebonics in the work environment.

This is what I'm talking about. Thanks for being honest too and admitting you haven't seen Black people speaking ebonics in the work enviornment or at an interview. However you said

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
Or will they learn one day when speaking ebonics isn't the best way to speak to an interview panel?

Like you had been on an interview panel and heard Black people speak ebonics. That's what I'm getting at.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 47):
We'd hear about how this is the downfall of society and that we need more Black History awareness programs to teach whites that nigger is not an acceptable term. I'm sorry. This is the worst thing I've seen yet come out of you.

That is actually a good idea.


Thanks for the debate.

Dave

[Edited 2006-10-24 00:06:48]
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why Did I Find This Offensive?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 48):
Good post

Thanks. I think that's the first compliment you've given me all thread.  Wink

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 48):
See, the difference between your last post and your previous ones was this last post actually had some thought to it. You make good points and I respect them. The main point I'm trying to get across to you is that you should not judge African Americans based upon their preference to use or not use the N word. You can wonder why Black people choose to call themselves that, but you cannot label the Black people who choose to use the word as people who aren't "Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives."

Maybe "respectable" wasn't the right term. "Conservative" may have been a better choice. An adjective for "More likely to be successful" may have also worked, though probably not as well. "Traditional" might also apply.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 48):
You can't deny that some of the things you have said on this thread were racist.

I wouldn't agree that those posts are racist. Extreme or Different? Probably.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 48):
I reviewed the thread and the issue about why Black people would call each other the N word wasn't explained as clearly as it should have been. Here's one reason I've been told:

"As you know calling a black person the N word is a derogatory term meant to oppress black people. To take that power away from people who use the N word to refer to Black people as inferior, lazy, stupid, and criminally inclined, Black people adopted the term to take away the hurtfulness of others referring to them as a N word. If your master beat you with a whip and you took his whip away from him, he can no longer beat you, and he can no longer be your master."

Well this is an explaination. I can't say I agree with it, but thanks for posting that.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 48):
Which is true of course, but it is different in this case. The difference here is that you assume if a Black person uses the word he or she is not one of the "Respectable Blacks who want to make something positive out of their lives."

And again, I admit "respectable" may not have been the best adjective.

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 48):
ike you had been on an interview panel and heard Black people speak ebonics. That's what I'm getting at.

What I'm getting at though is that in some schools, blacks are being taught that is okay to use ebonics even in a professional environment and less and less emphasis is being put on being able to speak and write in proper English. If blacks (or whoever else is unlucky enough to be attending one of these schools) don't learn proper English during their education, they're probably not going to know it when the time comes to get a job. I don't think Boeing or Bank of America or Microsoft or any major company is going to hire someone to fill an upper level position who can't speak proper English. I probably should have clarified the types of interview. I was thinking a major business filling an upper level position. I've gone into fast rood restaurants (where many of these young people work) and I wonder how the person working the cash register passed the interview process because I can't understand what they're trying to tell me, be they black or white or Hispanic or any other race. But those are the postions that don't require a lot of brains (I know, I've worked them) and just about anyone could perform them regardless of the education level and are always in need of people to fill them as the turnover rate is pretty high.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cpd, einsteinboricua, TheF15Ace and 21 guests