cxsjr
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:44 am

Discrimination?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:44 pm

Hi folks,

Where my partner works, the subject of Christmas holidays has just been raised, to determine who wants what time off over the festive period.

They have been told that people with children will be given first priority as "it's a family time" (sorry but I thought parents, sisters, nieces and nephews were part of my family too?). Next in line will be those with long distances to travel over the holiday period.

Short of adopting a child or lying about where we're spending Christmas, looks like we're at the end of the line and will get to choose from the time time that's left after everyone else has picked their days: this to me seems totally unethical, not to mention probably illegal?

OK, reaching agreement on time off with your colleagues on this basis is one thing, but to actually have a company publish that this is how they will allocate holiday can't be right, can it?

Any thoughts or similar experiences?
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Discrimination?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:07 pm

Quoting Cxsjr (Thread starter):
They have been told that people with children will be given first priority as "it's a family time" (sorry but I thought parents, sisters, nieces and nephews were part of my family too?). Next in line will be those with long distances to travel over the holiday period.

It's definitely not ethical, and it's quite possibly illegal, although I'm not sure under which pretext.

I work on a shift system too, and some years ago I found that the managers bent over backwards to accommodate parents. At the time my working and home life was a Grade A f***ing nightmare because I had my 3 year old sister living with me for half the week.

She's still here now, aged 12 and nowadays I work for agencies, so I tell people what I will and will not do.

In answer to your question, LIE! Nobody gives a shit about you, so extend the courtesy to them.
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: Discrimination?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:44 pm

When I was in the RAF, the leave used to be worked out (in some places, not all) by whether you had children or not. Those with children got priority during the Summer, so as to take advantage of the long summer school break. Single people got priority at Christmas, especially if they had a long way to travel home. In between times it was basically a first come, first served system.

My view was that this was a reasonably fair system and ensured that single people weren't stuck on base, away from family at Christmas time. Families were together so it wasn't quite as necessary for them to have time off.

For people with children to always get priority breeds discontent and makes people without feel somehow lower than others. The only other way is a strict "first come, first served" system. Even then you get the people who have "priorities" and feel they should have what they want.

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
sunshine79
Posts: 1559
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:02 am

RE: Discrimination?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:50 pm

Wherever I have worked, holidays have always been on a strictly first come first served basis, and think it should be. An ex-boyfriend of mine used to take holidays during school holiday times, which I think was wrong as it is stopping parents being off with their children. Besides, the last thing you want is loads of kids harrassing you when you are in town.
Formerly alcregular, Why drive when you can fly?
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: Discrimination?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:38 pm

I think that holidays are an entitlement and not a right. They have to be approved iaw the company's needs and so they can dictate who has what.


Besides, you can't call it Christmas anymore, you have to call it the 'Festive' holiday......  Yeah sure
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: Discrimination?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 4):
you have to call it the 'Festive' holiday

Don't YOU start on that PC tripe!! Big grin It's bloody Christmas, whether you belieive in the old guy or not!  santahat 

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
willo
Posts: 1331
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:21 pm

RE: Discrimination?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 4):
I think that holidays are an entitlement and not a right. They have to be approved iaw the company's needs and so they can dictate who has what.

Well what do you know, an early Christmas message from Mr Scrooge!
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Discrimination?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting Cxsjr (Thread starter):
They have been told that people with children will be given first priority as "it's a family time" (sorry but I thought parents, sisters, nieces and nephews were part of my family too?). Next in line will be those with long distances to travel over the holiday period.

If you honestly are going to raise a concern over this, you are a very petty person..

Christmas is about Religious celebration, and children and family. Not EVERYONE can have time off at Christmas, or the world would grind to a halt.

I myself am single, but we routinely have family over for Christmas, and guess what??? I always let other people with CHILDREN take the time off, and enjoy the special moments with their children since one day, I'm likely going to need the same *RESPECT* from them once their children are a little older, OR if I decide to travel to see family they may need to make a concession one year.

There's some things in life that aren't fair, and there's some things that MOST of society understands is a normal practice would wide. To make a legal argument out of something that's so petty would be quite disconcerting, given the fact that the reason you have time off at that time of year is to celebrate the happy times.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
Charger
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:20 am

RE: Discrimination?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 7):
If you honestly are going to raise a concern over this, you are a very petty person..

I don't think this is petty. He has a perfectly ligitimate gripe. Why should he have to give up seeing his family because he doesn't have kids.

In my company all vacation time and holiday time is worked strictly by seniority, and thats the way it should be.

Now if someone with out kids feels like being nice and covering a shift for someone who does have kids, thats a different story. But to be told your last on the list because you don't is just BS.
 
cxsjr
Posts: 711
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:44 am

RE: Discrimination?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 7):
If you honestly are going to raise a concern over this, you are a very petty person..

Listen, frankly I don't give a sh1t about Christmas and, as it happens, my other half won't be taking any weekdays off other than the 25th/26th as I'm working on both 24th and 26th so it's "dinner for two" this year.

That aside, and what I was driving at is, these days, when you apply for a job (in this country at least), certain questions such as age (yes, age!), number of children, marital status, ethnicity, sexuality etc etc are banned from job applications under equal opportunities. So WTF should a company then be allowed to take into account whether you have children when deciding who has what holidays.

I'm quite happy to let people with children have their holidays in the summer or at Christmas but let us come to agreement over that without having it dictated to us!

We have no intention of raising any concern specifically over this but for the record, this is part of a bigger picture in a company which initiates a disciplinary procedures if you're late by even a minute more than once in a month (even if it's down to public transport!), sends you home if you're ill then doesn't pay you while you're off then gives you a back to work interview when you return to see why you were off, hasn't had a fire drill in 5 years, has cables trailing everywhere, staff get spoken to like sh1t ..... you get my picture?

And before you say try getting a job elsewhere, he will be after Christmas!
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Discrimination?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:30 am

Christmas is important to me, and I let that value spill over in to my business. I give all my employees the day of either side of Christmas, and of course Christmas day as well. In the case where one of those days falls on a weekend (like Christmas Eve this year), I give them the Friday before off. And then whoever wants to take extra time in addition to that, as long as they've got the vacation time in their balance, I don't refuse. As long as I've got all the troops reporting back by the second week of January, I won't stop people from spending time with their families, friends, on their own, whomever at Christmas.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: Discrimination?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting Cxsjr (Thread starter):
Any thoughts

Do what I do and put in your request for Christmas time off on January 1st. Works like a charm every time I do it and I always have the last two weeks of the year off.

First come, first served and if someone gives you a ration of shit when you make that request on the first of the year then demand they show you a written policy about the families with kids thing.

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 4):
Besides, you can't call it Christmas anymore, you have to call it the 'Festive' holiday

F*** that noise! I'll call it Christmas and be jealous of the folks getting 8 nights of Hannukuh but I won't even touch the Hallmark Cards made-up holiday of Kwanzaaand I don't think the Muslims have anything scheduled around that time. PC has run amuck and calling it "winter break" from school or "winter festival" is a big joke that I just don't find funny.

Quoting Cxsjr (Reply 9):
I'm quite happy to let people with children have their holidays in the summer or at Christmas but let us come to agreement over that without having it dictated to us!.....And before you say try getting a job elsewhere, he will be after Christmas!

There you have it. If you don't like the policies then find another job.

Quoting Cxsjr (Thread starter):
Short of adopting a child

Too bad you aren't a celebrity since adopting some little poor black kid from Africa seems to be the IT thing to do.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."

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