AerospaceFan
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A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:05 am

In viewing articles such as the following, one might suspect that the elephant in the room that the respective leadership in both political parties desires to ignore is the topic of illegal immigration.

(Excerpt)

Quote:
The Bush-Senate plan legislates the corporate sector’s desire for an unending supply of cheap Mexican labor to depress American wages and worsen American working conditions in perpetuity by creating an ethnically homogeneous permanent underclass. It is class warfare by the super-rich against the rest of America.

This betrayal of traditional immigration policy will be borne on the backs of the nation’s most vulnerable: America’s working class, working poor (African Americans chiefly), seasonal workers, recent immigrants, young people entering the workforce.

Please see: http://www.thejewishweek.com/top/editletcontent.php3?artid=5467

While those who support illegal immigration might number in the tens of millions, it seems to me that those who oppose it number in the greater tens of millions. After all, who, whether on the left or right, really wants to admit supporting illegality, or the reduction of the American economy to Third World status?

On the issue of illegal immigration, many Republicans oppose the Bush Administration's plans for de facto amnesty.

It seems to me that the canny Democratic operative could simply field candidates who vow to take a position to the right of the Bush Administration on the issue of illegal aliens. By virtue of the fact that the interests of labor and non-illegal alien minorities would be served, traditional Democratic interests groups would be pleased, and, in addition, Republicans disgusted with the Bush Administration's immigration policies would also sign on.

Voila, a Democratic landslide in 2008.

But the Democratic leadership seems blind to this possibility.

At present.

[Edited 2006-11-02 16:15:02]
What's fair is fair.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:16 am

The Democrat leadership won't crack down on illegal immigration because of their reliance on the illegal immigrant vote in urban areas.  Smile

Politicians are the most short sighted of animals.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:22 am

I certainly see your point, DLPMMM. But perhaps even the benefits from the incidence of illegal alien voting (which is doubly illegal, as we will all agree, since only citizens can legally vote) would pale by comparison with the tens of millions of Republican votes that would be obtained if Democrats made it a point to cater to the anti-illegal alien vote.

After all, who are the illegals going to vote for? Republicans? The Republican Party, while all too corporatist, is not so corporatist that illegals would really stand to benefit from voting for it, besides which mainstream Republicans probably would not stand for signing up illegals to vote. The Republican Party, with its anti-social program stance, is for several reasons not an attractive option for illegals.

If both the Democrats and truly conservative Republicans stood for cracking down on illegals, illegals would have no place to go. Except, maybe, home, to their respective countries all over the world.

[Edited 2006-11-02 16:24:06]
What's fair is fair.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 2):
After all, who are the illegals going to vote for? Republicans? The Republican Party, while all too corporatist, is not so corporatist that illegals would really stand to benefit from voting for it,

Actually, more and more of new immigrants from south of the border are voting republican, as the conservative social values and lower taxes are a significant draw. Most immigrants are coming for money, not social programs.

This is a mistake that the democrats have not figured out. The illegal immigrant populations are no longer concentrating in the large urban centers in the USA.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:41 am

Interesting perspective, DLPMMM. Much to think about.
What's fair is fair.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
Interesting perspective, DLPMMM. Much to think about.

It's nice to have a political discussion without partisan B.S.

Thank you.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
It's nice to have a political discussion without partisan B.S.

Thank you.

It is, indeed, most agreeable! And I am proud to uphold the standard.  Smile
What's fair is fair.
 
RAPCON
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
Voila, a Democratic landslide in 2008.

Well, if they also change their views on free-for-all abortions, quit taxing everyone to death, stop hating Jesus, and move to deport all Arab Muslims, then I guarantee you an election victory that would rival Reagan's 1984 campagin.
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 7):
Well, if they also change their views on free-for-all abortions, quit taxing everyone to death, stop hating Jesus, and move to deport all Arab Muslims, then I guarantee you an election victory that would rival Reagan's 1984 campagin.

I got news for you Mr. Republican base. Most Americans are not for more limits on abortion rights, they are not for more religious nuts telling our schools and consenting adults what to do. And they certainly are not for treating Muslims with disrespect.

So you can take your agenda back to the backwoods and alleys were it came from. Oh and you can kiss one party rule goodbye in about a week.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 7):
Well, if they also change their views on free-for-all abortions, quit taxing everyone to death, stop hating Jesus, and move to deport all Arab Muslims, then I guarantee you an election victory that would rival Reagan's 1984 campagin.

That may be.

I continue to think that the Republicans (except maybe the House Republicans) are giving us the shaft on illegals, though. I hope the GOP comes to its senses and stops being the party of corporations that need illegal labor, to the extent that it is.

[Edited 2006-11-02 21:27:02]
What's fair is fair.
 
Matt D
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:00 am

I hope the GOP comes to its senses and stops being the party of corporations that need illegal labor, to the extent that it is.

If anyone is to blame for that mess, it's your every day Joe Schmo consumers who want and demand more and more for less and less......

you know...the ones who expect Nordstroms service (and quality) at Wal-Mart prices.

WE are the ones that created that demand. The GOP is simply fulfilling it.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:07 am

[Double post -- kindly disregard.]

[Edited 2006-11-02 23:16:21]
What's fair is fair.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 10):
If anyone is to blame for that mess, it's your every day Joe Schmo consumers who want and demand more and more for less and less......

you know...the ones who expect Nordstroms service (and quality) at Wal-Mart prices.

I am a technological optimist. I think that in the absence of lax enforcement of our immigration laws, we would be able to automate our industries, in the same way that Japan has done, except even better, so that Americans could expect Neiman-Marcus service -- at Big Lots prices.

America in the optimistic view of the early 1960's was the land not only of opportunity, but of the future. The future was as big as the skies of Montana, and there were few limits to what we could do.

We had, in Tom Wolfe's words, "the right stuff".

But history showed us that our weaknesses could be exploited, and we fought amongst ourselves, as we do today. The weak are set against the strong, and the strong are told to keep their share, rather than to invest for posterity. Love becomes sex, just as animosity becomes hate, and the world is spun slowly upside down so that our enemies abroad can seize us where we are vulnerable.

I think that the tragedy of the last half-century is that America was made weaker than it could be. Rather than strengthening the city of the hill, where the great Ronald Reagan in the 1980's told us we could be again, we spent precious years examining our past, giving money away only to be wasted, helping those who abroad who hated us grow stronger and ever more dangerous.

The tragedy of America of the last half of the 20th Century is that of the aimless, lonely giant, eager to seek the approval of others. One need only see how some of those from other countries treat us today to see how broad was the trap.

We should seek what strengthens us all, not what weakens us to others. We should find strength from our diversity, not dilute it with dissension. We should find greatness in the best of the past, and not seek castles built on air spewing from the mouths of those who "have a plan".

As usual, we are condemned to blunder our way nevertheless to greatness. But it is a greatness less than that we could achieve, and obtained at greater cost, to ourselves, individually, and to our national soul.

[Edited 2006-11-02 23:27:22]
What's fair is fair.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:07 am

I have a winning strategy for the Democrats, at least in Presidential Elections:
Win your home states.
Gore failed to carry Tennessee in 2000. Had he done so, Florida would have been non-issue as Gore would not have needed those votes to secure the 270 needed.
Edwards also failed to carry North Carolina in 2004 for John Kerry. Bush won the Electoral Vote with 286 votes, 16 more. North Carolina has 15. Though this state alone would not have been enough to turn the election, had North Carolina and one other state that Bush won gone "blue", the election would have been turned in favor of Kerry.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
AirCop
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
The Democrat leadership won't crack down on illegal immigration because of their reliance on the illegal immigrant vote in urban areas.

Nice quote, but back it up with facts. Isn't happening here in Arizona the apparent capital of illegal imigrants entering the country, and from what I read it's isn't happening in California, or New Mexico either.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Nice quote, but back it up with facts. Isn't happening here in Arizona the apparent capital of illegal imigrants entering the country, and from what I read it's isn't happening in California, or New Mexico either.

So, are people like New Mexico's Governor Bill Richardson to the left or to the right of President Bush on illegal immigration?
What's fair is fair.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 15):
So, are people like New Mexico's Governor Bill Richardson to the left or to the right of President Bush on illegal immigration?

Thank you for making my point. We may not agree on most issues, but there is respect.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Nice quote, but back it up with facts. Isn't happening here in Arizona the apparent capital of illegal imigrants entering the country, and from what I read it's isn't happening in California, or New Mexico either.

The fact is that politicians on both sides of the issue have been too politically chicken to stem the tide. Most of the left are afraid of losing the latino and illegal vote, and most of the right are afraid of losing their lawncare rates.

Most of the politicians are afraid of stopping the flow, which is why nothing has been done.

Have you seen the Democrat Pols in Arizona, California, and New Mexico pushing hard to close their border with Mexico?

The fact that nothing is happening is proof of my point.
 
halls120
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):
Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Nice quote, but back it up with facts. Isn't happening here in Arizona the apparent capital of illegal imigrants entering the country, and from what I read it's isn't happening in California, or New Mexico either.

The fact is that politicians on both sides of the issue have been too politically chicken to stem the tide. Most of the left are afraid of losing the latino and illegal vote, and most of the right are afraid of losing their lawncare rates.

Most of the politicians are afraid of stopping the flow, which is why nothing has been done.

Have you seen the Democrat Pols in Arizona, California, and New Mexico pushing hard to close their border with Mexico?

The fact that nothing is happening is proof of my point.

Absolutely correct. The democrats don't want to stem the tide of potential democratic voters, and the republicans don't want to cut off the supply of cheap labor. In the meantime, education and social services are being pushed past the limit of their capacity, and the failure of our leadership to push policies that reward assimilation have resulted in a flood of people that come to the US not to become Americans, but to get jobs so that they can send money back home.

You want to come to the US? I'm all for it. But do it legally, become a citizen, learn english, and immerse yourself in our national experience. Leave the _____ flag at home, please.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: A Longer-Term Winning Strategy For The Democrats

Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 16):
Thank you for making my point. We may not agree on most issues, but there is respect.

I'm glad we agree, and indeed, it is important to discuss matter rationally and civilly.
What's fair is fair.

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