mirrodie
Posts: 6789
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Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:19 pm

Yep, free speech and the Constitution. Gotta love it.

Now you KNOW those kids were not looking at the bus driver but were looking at the president and the motorcade. So the excuse of behaving inappropriately in front of hte kids is BS.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/World/2006/11/03/2219517-sun.html
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KaiGywer
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:35 pm

I fail to see how it has anything to do with freedom of speech. He did an appropriate gesture while working. When you're at work, you have to leave your political views at home. Had he done the same when not working, nobody could care less, not even Bush:

"The congressman hadn't seen it, but the president turned to him and said, 'That one's not a fan,"' said Reichert spokesman Kimberly Cadena.

I'll give Bush credit for a humorous statement  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:07 am

Any proof, Mirrode, that Bush was the one who demanded the firing?

What do we know about the driving record of this bus driver. Obviously, if they are looking at giving the finger to the President actually driving the bus with kids in it wasn't first on their mind was it. Maybe that was a pattern with this bus driver.

Free Speech guarantee is that the GOVERNMENT can not impinge on speech. Private companies are under no such restriction.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Technically, Congress is the only branch mentioned. Although we all agree that the Judicial and the Executive branch are under the same restriction.

Try to THINK before you pop off Mirrodie.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
MattRB
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
Yep, free speech and the Constitution. Gotta love it.

And yet, coupled with the title of this thead, your post suggests that you don't love it enough to read and comprehend it.

Bus driver was fired for making a rude gesture while driving a bus in the course of his employment.

He wants to give the President the finger, he should've done it on his own time.

Free speech has absolutely nothing to do with it.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
Yep, free speech and the Constitution. Gotta love it.

BTW Mirrodie, is there any difference between the bus company firing this guy for breaking thier rules and you as a moderator banning someone from the forums for breaking the rules?

Seems like your concept of free speech needs a bit of fine tuning.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
AirCop
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1):
He did an appropriate gesture while working.

Ouch! I know what you were trying to say, maybe a suspension would have served the same effect..Not like one sheriff's department I saw having re-elect sheriff xxxx bumper stickers on them.
 
jwenting
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:45 pm

The fact that you're allowed to spew this nonsense proves that freedom of speech is in no way impeded in the US.

Had you been located in a country where there is no freedom of speech (like North Korea or China) you'd either have been arrested to prevent you from making such statements (thoughtcrime) or have been indoctrinated from birth to never even think of making such statements.
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B747-437B
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 4):
s there any difference between the bus company firing this guy for breaking thier rules and you as a moderator banning someone from the forums for breaking the rules?

 rotfl 
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
thetuna
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 4):
BTW Mirrodie, is there any difference between the bus company firing this guy for breaking thier rules and you as a moderator banning someone from the forums for breaking the rules?

Free speech does not exist here. I do not mean that in a bad way.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:45 pm

I guess I'd get fired too if I made an 'inappropriate' gesture if I were working a traffic detail with PotUS in the mix. And rightfully so. There's no room for that in a Professional organization.

What I do on my time reflects on me, what I do on company time reflects on the entire company.

This isn't a Freedom of Speech issue, or a lack thereof . . . it's a "Case of the Dumbass" issue.

Thread title is incorrect. Ought to be edited. Or the thread deleted as being wholly inaccurate bullshit.
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GuitrThree
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 4):
BTW Mirrodie, is there any difference between the bus company firing this guy for breaking thier rules and you as a moderator banning someone from the forums for breaking the rules?

Seems like your concept of free speech needs a bit of fine tuning.

Oh where, oh where has Mirrodie gone?

I guess anytime from now on, if he tries to delete one of my threads or replies to a thread, I'll just send him his own quotes.
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strasserb
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Or the thread deleted as being wholly inaccurate bullshit.

Here it's where you can get the accurate version of this stuff:



Plain biological stuff ... good smoke.
 banghead 
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
melpax
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
I guess I'd get fired too if I made an 'inappropriate' gesture if I were working a traffic detail with PotUS in the mix. And rightfully so. There's no room for that in a Professional organization.

As a Public Servant, albeit in Australia, I'd get canned as well. If John Howard or a senior Cabinet Minister visited our office & a similar thing happened, there'd be hell to pay. Whenever an election is called, we're always reminded that we are 'a-political' and that we should be seen as being impartial when dealing with the public, but once we're out of the office & on our own time, that's another matter...........

[Edited 2006-11-04 15:02:13]
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mirrodie
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:07 am

Ah, c'mon, I was gonna let the thread go a whole week.

I love the responses. Typical, too typical.

Not once did I mention Bush or his administration. Not once. All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

Hook, line, sinker.

I enjoyed the childish responses.

Carry on with the sophomoric bashing!

[Edited 2006-11-04 17:40:04]
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KaiGywer
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
Ouch! I know what you were trying to say

Ehm....inappropriate gesture Big grin
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
AvObserver
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:51 am

Sorry, Mirrodie, but I can't see a school bus driver using the finger or any sort of perceived "obscene" gesture while carting a load of kids as appropriate under any circumstances. It's less a problem she's anti-Bush than that she used a gesture parents would not approve of from a school employee, although she should also mute her pollitical opinion in frint of the children. Call me square but I don't see this as a "free speech" issue.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
Ah, c'mon, I was gonna let the thread go a whole week.

I love the responses. Typical, too typical.

Not once did I mention Bush or his administration. Not once. All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

Hook, line, sinker.

I enjoyed the childish responses.

Carry on with the sophomoric bashing!

Wow, that's just gotta be the saddest attempt at wiggling your ass out of getting the door slammed into your face I've seen for a long time...

BTW, IF this was indeed meant to 'trick' the rest of us into believing it was anti-Bush and into slamming you for it, doesn't that, by definition, make it flamebait, and thus in violation of the rules you are supposed to uphold?
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
Not once did I mention Bush or his administration.



Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
the president and the motorcade

Gee Mirrodie. It seems you did mention the president.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

I never assumed that.

I did assume it was a rant of someone completely ignorant of the Constitution and the Second Amendment. I assumed it was the rant of someone ignorant of his own power as a moderator to restrict speech in a private setting by criticising the rights of other people to discipline violators of their own private rules. Which since you ARE a moderator adds hypocrite to ignorant to your resume.

Talk about childish...
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satx
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:17 am

I think it was wrong to boast about it at work, but hey this was a once-in-a-lifetime chance, so why not take it?  Big grin

And c'mon guys, are you sure you wouldn't feel the same way if it was Clinton who got the finger? Sometimes I think we get too one-sided on this sort of thing. None of the presidents during my lifetime have been all that great and most if not all probably deserved the finger at least once in a while.

Let's try to agree on a few things...

1. All presidents deserve the bird now and then, sometimes two at once
2. Taking liberties at work can sometimes get you fired (rightly or wrongly)
3. Getting fired does not, in itself, mean that free speech is dead
4. Firing someone for giving the finger is a pretty pussy thing to do
5. Irrespective of this specific event, there does appear to be some pressure on average Americans to be a bit more patriotic and a bit less openly hostile toward the administration than during the Clinton years.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
I know what you were trying to say, maybe a suspension would have served the same effect

He may have been on shaky ground with his employer for other reasons. He may have been on probation for past problems. This may have been the last straw in a series of inappropriate behavior.

He may have been a new employee in the midst of the typical new-hire probation period during which employers can fire for (literally) no reason.

We don't know the whole story.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
strasserb
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 14):
Ehm....inappropriate gesture

Agreed, but would it be appropriate in this bus?:



 biggrin 
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KaiGywer
Crew
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 20):
Agreed, but would it be appropriate in this bus?:

Anything is appropriate in that one  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
mirrodie
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 16):
meant to 'trick' the rest of us

Nah I wouldn't call it a trick either, more an observation of what to expect. No different than any other post here, you type something and get a reaction. Pretty simple.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
It seems you did mention the president.

Ah, yes, I mentioned the president. However, I would have thought that you had the acumen to realize that I did not mention him in any light positive or negative. But thank you for your astute observation.  

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
Which since you ARE a moderator adds hypocrite to ignorant to your resume.

Talk about childish...

  Nah, not really. I can't say I ban free speech as much as I will ban users for flaming and abusing others. So what, because I'm a mod, you imply that I should post any differently than anyone else? Please. Hypocrit, ignorant? Boohoo, sticks and stone. No rules broken. Bottom line is your assumptions are wrong but say what you want. But if you have a problem with me, take it off the boards.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
We don't know the whole story.

True, and that is always a fact with the media.

[Edited 2006-11-04 21:15:34]
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 22):
I can't say I ban free speech as much as I will ban users for flaming and abusing others.

Isn't that what the bus company did to the driver?

The finger is, after all, the original flame.

You enforce the rules. They enforced the rules. You were critical of the bus company for enforcing their rules, claiming the bus driver right to free speech. Yet, you would enforce up to banning someone for breaking Airliners.net rules. Why are those you ban not entitled to the very protection you would have granted the bus driver?

Or does the target make all the difference to you?

The fact that you didn't see that Free Speech protection only applies to the Government's ability to restrict speech and not a private institution's ability to restrict it, when you yourself are engaged in just such policing, makes you either a hypocite or, ignorant.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
GuitrThree
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
I love the responses. Typical, too typical.

Not once did I mention Bush or his administration. Not once. All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

Hook, line, sinker.

I enjoyed the childish responses.

Did you go to the John Kerry school of how to get your ass out of a big bucket of Sh*t?

Please. Don't, for one minute, make us think you posted this thread just to see the responses.

Childish? Look in the mirror. That 5th grader is you.
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mirrodie
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:48 am

First we were talking Bush, now Kerry?

Unreal.
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GuitrThree
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 25):
First we were talking Bush, now Kerry?

Unreal.

No,

actually, we are talking about someone who doesn't have the balls to admit he was wrong.

You are free to elaborate on who exactly that is.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:23 pm

Sorry Mirrodie, but how do you know that a kid or two didn't see the bus driver give Bush the finger?

'Twas inappropriate, regardless of to whom he was giving the finger. You're supposed to set a good example for the kids. Free speech has nothing to do with it.

Oh, and just to ensure I covered all the bases:

It's Bush's fault. And it was Kerry's fault before it wasn't Kerry's fault.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

Incorrect.

Not ONCE did I mention President Bush . . . I said PotUS (There have been 43 of them by th by). But YOU did.

Furthermore, and not once did I say it was anti-American.

What I said was it is bullshit. At the very least the thread title is way off the mark.

Quoting SATX (Reply 18):
And c'mon guys, are you sure you wouldn't feel the same way if it was Clinton who got the finger?

Absolutely. Damned right. I didn't care for Pres. Clinton personally, but that can have NO bearing on what I do professionally . . . that's called being an adult and bearing responsibility. If I or one of my fellow officers pulled any such stunt with ANY dignitary, we're done . . . and rightfully so.

What I say or do in private is my business, what I say or do in public is public business . . . that's the nature of this job . . .

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 27):
It's Bush's fault. And it was Kerry's fault before it wasn't Kerry's fault.

 rotfl 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
mirrodie
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 27):
It's Bush's fault. And it was Kerry's fault before it wasn't Kerry's fault.

Brilliant!

Title off the mark, maybe I'll give you that....fact remains, usual suspects, expected comments... quite stale
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
GuitrThree
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:09 pm

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 29):
Title off the mark, maybe I'll give you that

The start of the collapse...

Remember...

Tuesday, John Kerry says... "Let me make this crystal clear, as clear as I can make it, I apologize to no one.."

Wednesday, John Kerry says... "I apologize to those..."

Come'on Mirrodie... you're halfway there to admitting your ignorance in this case...
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sccutler
Posts: 5556
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:26 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 18):
And c'mon guys, are you sure you wouldn't feel the same way if it was Clinton who got the finger? Sometimes I think we get too one-sided on this sort of thing. None of the presidents during my lifetime have been all that great and most if not all probably deserved the finger at least once in a while.

Cannot speak for the "guys," but for me, I would absolutely, positively feel equally offended if President Clinton was gestured-at in such a way. While I may have disagreed with his policies (many of them, vehemently), he was President, and merited all of the respect appurtenant to the office.

I could never countenance people calling him names, like "Slick Willie," and find the application of childish or offensive nicknames to President Bush to be inappropriate.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
jwenting
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:20 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
I did assume it was a rant of someone completely ignorant of the Constitution and the Second Amendment.

First, not second. The second guarantees citizens' rights to own and carry weapons to defend themselves.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 27):
And it was Kerry's fault before it wasn't Kerry's fault.

Mirodie voted for Kerry before he voted against him by voting for him (after all, Kerry would vote against himself after voting for himself so any vote for Kerry is also by definition a vote against Kerry).
I wish I were flying
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 32):
Mirodie voted for Kerry before he voted against him by voting for him (after all, Kerry would vote against himself after voting for himself so any vote for Kerry is also by definition a vote against Kerry).

excellent! love it!
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 30):
Remember...

Tuesday, John Kerry says... "Let me make this crystal clear, as clear as I can make it, I apologize to no one.."

Wednesday, John Kerry says... "I apologize to those..."

Remember...

Stay the course...Stay the course...Stay the course...

I never said say the course...

------------------------------------------

Remember....

Saddam had meeting w/ the 9/11 hijackers...

'Mr President, what ties did Iraq have with Al Queda?'....'There wasn't any.'

------------------------------------------

Remember....

I will not engage in nation building....

-----------------------------------------

Remember....

I'm a uniter, not a divider...

-----------------------------------------

Your point?  Yeah sure
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 34):
Your point?

My point?

My point is simply that this "moderator," someone who is empowered to tell us when to shut up, comes here and starts a thread that does nothing but show his obvious bias to his hate of the sitting US President. He loses all of his common sense and the vastly known fact that someone, on the job, has no right to spew off anything he or she wants. Then, he sinks to the level of John Kerry and tells us that he was smarter than all of the rest of us and basically started this thread to get our "childish" responses.

Are your above quotes of the President correct? Maybe. Maybe not. But one thing he NEVER did in any of those quotes is to infer that we were too "dumb" or "childish" to understand the "joke."

That's my point. If you want to go ahead and believe both JK and Mirrodie, then be my guest and join that group of self-empowered elitists..

[Edited 2006-11-05 19:09:09]
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ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:12 am

Please if you see any Americans flipping the President off report them to their employers or nearest GOP office.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7972/3086/1600/Martial-Law-e.jpg
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 35):
My point is simply that this "moderator," someone who is empowered to tell us when to shut up, comes here and starts a thread that does nothing but show his obvious bias to his hate of the sitting US President.

I never took it that way.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 35):
Then, he sinks to the level of John Kerry and tells us that he was smarter than all of the rest of us and basically started this thread to get our "childish" responses.

I would be honored to be thought of in the same regard as a brave, war tested veteran like Mr. Kerry. That's something the mod can take as a compliment.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 35):
Are your above quotes of the President correct? Maybe. Maybe not.

Um, no...They are absolutly correct.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 35):
But one thing he NEVER did in any of those quotes is to infer that we were too "dumb" or "childish" to understand the "joke."

You're right. I understood his 'I know those WMD have to be around here somewhere' sketch perfectly clear.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 35):
That's my point. If you want to go ahead and believe both JK and Mirrodie, then be my guest and join that group of self-empowered elitists..

Who should I believe then? You?
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
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RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 32):

First, not second. The second guarantees citizens' rights to own and carry weapons to defend themselves

I apologize that was a stupid error on my part.

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 36):
Please if you see any Americans flipping the President off report them to their employers or nearest GOP office.

Right. Artie because as we established in post number two of this thread the Party and the Government were the one's who demanded this firing.

I'll demand the same proof you demanded of me and the others in previous post provide names of the Administration Officials that demanded the company fire this guy.

Seems only fair you have to play by the same rules you set for your posts.

Once again Mrrodie and those that have jumped in to support him have shown a classic case of complete hypocrisy. You lack self awareness completely.

The FIRST Amendment prohibits Congress from infringing on individuals right to free speech. Companies and Private institutions are under no such restriction from the Constitution. Which is why a Bus Company can fire someone for giving the bird to anyone. Which is why you can't go to a radio or TV station and demand to be put on the air. Which is why a school in Brooklyn can suspend a kid for wearing a Hitler costume after Halloween. Which is why Airliners.net can ban users who break their rules. Mirrodie as a Mod is engaged in just such policing of speech. Yet he posts this thread. I'd have expected it from a regular user, but a Moderator not seeing the inherent contradiction in his job and what he's complain against is either stupid or hypocritical.

Let me ask you would it have even made the news for Mirrodie to post if this bus driver was fired for flipping off a car that cut him off in regular traffic?
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 35):
My point is simply that this "moderator," someone who is empowered to tell us when to shut up, comes here and starts a thread that does nothing but show his obvious bias to his hate of the sitting US President

Wow, nothing in the thread starter says that, those are your assumptions. Plain and simple. You erroneously assumed that.

My points are simple. Throw a thread out there that includes the word "President" and it will spill forth some nasty bile for the same users over and over. It'll conjure up assumptions and accusations without any merit.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 38):
as we established in post number two of this thread the Party and the Government were the one's who demanded this firing.

I'll demand the same proof you demanded of me and the others in previous post provide names of the Administration Officials that demanded the company fire this guy.

Point 2, note how I didn't make any comment or accusation toward anyone. Simply an open statement was made, no pros or cons, no yeas or nays.

It just blows me away how easily and quickly the same usual people will instantly make this a political flamefest. Talking nonsense about Kerry, Bush, Clonton. It's really quite funny. I could have posted about Clinton choking on brussel sprouts and same would occur.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 38):
Let me ask you would it have even made the news for Mirrodie to post if this bus driver was fired for flipping off a car that cut him off in regular traffic?

Ah, yes, finally a sliver of light which brings me to my main point:

-Would it have made the news AT ALL were it not for the fact that it was a president's motorcade? nope. In fact, I am sure there are 100's of bus drivers that flip off other drivers left and right and they are still working. And yes some of them even say a dirty work here and there, to no avail.
-Would the guy still have a job? most likely
-Would anyone care? probably not
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:04 am

It's a clear case of "Do as I say and not as I do."
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 39):
My points are simple.


Your POINTS were, originally, that free speech and the constitution are going away... care to see them again?

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
Yep, free speech and the Constitution. Gotta love it.

Now you KNOW those kids were not looking at the bus driver but were looking at the president and the motorcade. So the excuse of behaving inappropriately in front of hte kids is BS.



Truth hurts... I know...

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 39):
Throw a thread out there that includes the word "President" and it will spill forth some nasty bile for the same users over and over.


Humm.. same users, over and over? Well, in this case, the "same users" are correct. You, sir, posted a thread about a bus driver, who, while working, made obscene gestures and was fired for it (not mentioning it was on a school bus, you know, kids...) calling it BS, when in fact, it was exactly what should have happened, and nothing in the Constitution protects this. Calling BS on something that is correct??? Please.
These same hateful "nasty spewing" users made your post look like a childish rant.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 39):
It'll conjure up assumptions and accusations without any merit


Humm... conjuring up "assumptions" and "accusations" without any merit? Again, Mirrodie, do us a favor and show us some more of your abilities to interpret the Constitution.... you did so well in post#1.

The fact is, I don't care that a bus driver flipped off the President. I think it and Bush's comment were funny as hell... What that bus driver did, however, made enough people mad to have warranted the firing.... plain and simple..

What pisses me off is when you come around, OBVIOUSLY WRONG in this case, and try to blow us off as poor saps that are easily duped into your "trap" of us defending the President no matter what.

Why don't you, instead of insulting us (let me remind you, you are a moderator and represent A.net), you grow a set of balls and admit you were wrong in this case.

[Edited 2006-11-06 01:17:20]
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 41):
easily duped into your "trap" of us defending the President no matter what.

You have got to be kidding! LOL

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
All of you assumed it was an Anti-bush, anti american rant.

There is your truth.

Read that opening post again. No anti-Bush, anti-Union, Anti-anything up there. Please, continue to twist this into something that its not.

As for admitting wrong, yep, I was wrong.

Having said that, doesn't change a bloody thing. Having known how this society works, were it not for the fact that it was a high profile target(Presidential motorcade) the guy would still have a job.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:06 pm

This is exactly why moderators should have a second "regular" account when they post potential pot-stirring B.S.

That said, you type something that breaks the rules (in this case, flamebait and potentially inaccurate) with your "average joe" account, the next time you log in with your admin account, you should be looking at it with different eyes, and just delete your own post. Nobody bitches about the average joe getting a delete/ban.

You break the rules with your mod hat on, people are going to bitch. You went so far as to admit that you were stirring the pot.

You've banned others for less.

More and more, the moderators appear to be moderating the general userbase, but completely ignore moderating themselves, or other mods, and it comes off as hypocrisy.
We can agree to disagree.
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:17 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 43):
it comes off as hypocrisy.

You mean like this...

Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 1):
I fail to see how it has anything to do with freedom of speech. He did an appropriate gesture while working. When you're at work, you have to leave your political views at home.

Precisely. When we do our jobs, we give up a number of things. One of them could very well be making obscene gestures while on the job, whether or not we think it's seen by those in our charge.
What's fair is fair.
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 39):
Would the guy still have a job? most likely

That's a HUGE assumption on your part Mirrodie. It's just as easy to say He probably would have been fired, because his inappropriate finger gesture now would have been seen by the children. Remember the ones you insisted were distracted by the motorcade.

BTW I know of a woman who worked for UAL as a CS agent at ORD. She was fired for saying "Fuck" to a customer. Did it make the news? No. Was she fired none the less? Yes. Was the First Amendment involved in any way shape or form? No.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 42):
Read that opening post again. No anti-Bush, anti-Union, Anti-anything up there. Please, continue to twist this into something that its not.

Mirrodie, You can backpedal all you want but here are a number of things you must consider.

1) You called the Constitution under attack.
2) The Constitution can ONLY come under attack from those in positions of power.
3) Your article cited the President.

1+1+1=3

I didn't call you anti-Bush, or Anti anything. I did ask you to point out to us where the assault on the Constitution was coming from. I showed you how the Constitution can not attack from Private Companies.

Instead of defending your position you turned this thread into an attack on certain users. That being the case looks like you violated the rules you are required to enforce. Which I think calls for deletion of the thread and a possible banning from the forums. Anyone in your position who breaks the rules while enforcing them ought to be held to account.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting Wukka (Reply 43):
when they post potential pot-stirring B.S.

any thread here is potentially pot stirring, as we just saw.

Quoting Wukka (Reply 43):
You break the rules with your mod hat on

not the case and if it were, no doubt that hte head moderators would have been emailed by you, the users.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 46):
you turned this thread into an attack on certain users

Right  Yeah sure just direct your eye overhead and you'll realize who attacks what.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
UALPHLCS
Posts: 3233
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:50 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 47):
Right just direct your eye overhead and you'll realize who attacks what

Care to point out an attack?

Someone as hypocritical as you has no buisness policing this forum.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 3:33 am

RE: Free Speech In America Becoming Extinct

Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:10 am

unfortunately, this has become tit for tat personal messages so there goes the thread.

PM me
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st

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