ZKSUJ
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International Rugby Thread

Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:00 am

This is the new international rugby thread.

Anyway, this is a chance to rant. Did anyone watch the All Blacks vs France. 47-03

All I can say is WOW!!! Great game, a few to many penalties given away, but a great game.
 
VHVXB
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Thread starter):
Anyway, this is a chance to rant. Did anyone watch the All Blacks vs France. 47-03

Thats an annihilation. I thought France would have given the AB's a run for their money. A very dominating performance by the ABs

Other Scores:
Italy 18 T:
G: Pez (6pg)
Australia 25 T: Rogers, Shepherdson, Mortlock
G: Mortlock (2pg, 2c)


England 18 T: Sackey, Balshaw
G: Hodgson (1pg, 1c), Flood (1pg)
Argentina 25 T: Todeschini
G: Contepomi (2pg), Todeschini (4pg, 1c)


Scotland 48 T: Beattie, Southwell 2, Dewey, Godman, Hall, Cusiter
G: Godman (1pg, 5c)
Romania 6 T:
G: Vlaicu (2pg)


Wales 38 T: Jones, Hook, Morgan, Byrne, Sweeney
G: Sweeney (1pg, 5c)
Pacific Islanders 20 T: Va'a, Mapusua, Ratuvou
G: Pisi (1pg, 1c)


Ireland 32 T: Trimble, Wallace, Horan, Horgan
G: O'Gara (2pg, 3c)
South Africa 15 T: Habana, Steyn
G: Pretorius (1pg, 1c)


France 3 T:
G: Fritz (1dg)
New Zealand 47 T: Sivivatu 2, Rokocoko, Smith, Carter, McCaw, McAlister
G: Carter (2pg, 3c)

England Goners: ENG 18-25 ARG At Twickenham (by Derico Nov 11 2006 in Non Aviation)
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:25 am

Italy have really improved. It was only a few years ago in the 99 world cup when I remember the AB's putting 101 points against them. And now just loosing by 7 to the Wallabies. Great effort
 
VHVXB
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:18 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 2):
Italy have really improved.

Not really. The wallabies lacked discipline and gave away too many penalties
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:39 pm

Was talking about them improving a hell of alot since the 1999 world cup when I first watched them.
 
dc10tim
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:40 am

Although I suppose I should be feeling somewhat dismayed at my own team's form, not just recently, but since winning the world cup, the All Blacks win over France today really brought a smile to my face. We've been hearing all this bull all year long about how they are going to comfortably win the world cup and I think a nice dose of reality will do them good. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one team in it. And Dan Carter - what a star!

As for England, get rid of Andy Robinson, the sooner the better. The level of moral in the England camp must be rock bottom and I fear another abysmal 6 nations.

Regards,

Tim.
Obviously missing something....
 
777ER
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:05 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 1):
I thought France would have given the AB's a run for their money. A very dominating performance by the ABs

Actually France had more domination during the game, but when France made one too many mistakes, the ABs made them pay badly.

One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.
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kiwiinoz
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:38 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.

Yeah but then people have to go to Wellington to watch it.
 
gkirk
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:16 pm

Fantastic result for Scotland!  bigthumbsup 
Although marred by the injury to Jason White  Sad
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:28 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 8):
Fantastic result for Scotland!
Although marred by the injury to Jason White

Fantastic? It's Romania.....I would expect nothing less than a drubbing.
 
Banco
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:46 pm

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 9):
Fantastic? It's Romania.....I would expect nothing less than a drubbing.

I think that's his point. He expected a drubbing, but somehow Scotland won instead.  Wink
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gkirk
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 10):
I think that's his point. He expected a drubbing, but somehow Scotland won instead. Wink



Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 9):
Fantastic? It's Romania.....I would expect nothing less than a drubbing.

Well, at least we aren't going down quicker than the Titanic, unlike Engerlund  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11):
Well, at least we aren't going down quicker than the Titanic, unlike Engerlund

When you're already on the seabed, it's hard to sink much further.  Wink

England are a disaster at the moment. Robinson's got to go. Re-building after all the retirements after the World Cup was acceptable. Getting worse and worse one year out from the next one is not.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 12):
When you're already on the seabed, it's hard to sink much further.

England are a disaster at the moment. Robinson's got to go. Re-building after all the retirements after the World Cup was acceptable. Getting worse and worse one year out from the next one is not.

Face it, it's the case with all English sport. One year the stars and the moon line up by some divine intervention they are able to string together a performance that beats all others. For the other 40-50 years, mediocre or crap.
 
SpinalTap
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 7):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.

Yeah but then people have to go to Wellington to watch it.

Auckland really needs to get it together, be it the bedpan or the upgrade of Eden Park. The Mallard and the Dick don't exactly inspire a great amount of confidence in me that they will. I kind of hope they don't because Jade Stadium is the next alternative if Auckland can't sort it out and considerably cheaper only needing $80 mil to be up to the IRB rules.

Don't know how much it would cost to upgrade Westpac but would seem a waste to rebuild major sections of such a new stadium if thats what it would require?? Has there been anything in the Dom Post?
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Banco
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:14 pm

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 13):
Face it, it's the case with all English sport. One year the stars and the moon line up by some divine intervention they are able to string together a performance that beats all others. For the other 40-50 years, mediocre or crap.

Hardly. That England side were completely dominant in World rugby for at least two years. They went something like 20 games unbeaten before losing to France in a World Cup warm-up when deliberately putting out a 2nd XV (France had done the same the week before). What was it, 15 consecutive wins over southern hemisphere opposition? It wasn't a fluke, that England side were the best in the world over a long period.

For the period up until around 1988, England were crap because there was no structure in place. From then on they got progressively better. The side now might not ever have the ability to be world-beaters, but they should be every bit as good as Australia or France. And they're not.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
VHVXB
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 15):
Hardly. That England side were completely dominant in World rugby for at least two years. They went something like 20 games unbeaten before losing to France in a World Cup warm-up when deliberately putting out a 2nd XV (France had done the same the week before). What was it, 15 consecutive wins over southern hemisphere opposition? It wasn't a fluke, that England side were the best in the world over a long period.

Yes and its been downhill ever since they won the world cup

Quoting Banco (Reply 15):

Well I admit there is no real structure in Australian team. To much chop and change
 
Banco
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 16):
Yes and its been downhill ever since they won the world cup

Oh, indeed. No argument there.

The thing is, so many of the England team of 2003 retired, that there was always going to be a drop in performance. Equally, one or two key players like Wilkinson have picked up continual injuries, and haven't played for England since. Both those events (the latter is hardly unprecendented) were going to make a dent in England's level of quality.

My expectation was that England would struggle for a year or two, and then start building towards 2007. Whether they ended up with a side good enough to retain the cup was a moot point, but that was what probably most people both in England and outside expected.

Instead, what has happened is that England have got steadily worse. Sure, there have been injuries to key players, but that happens to every team, no excuses there.

The management has been abysmal: Promising players like Mathew Tait (remember the World Cup Sevens) were picked once, at a very early age and then brutally discarded, hardly a way to encourage them. Most sides have a pretty good idea of what their best first XV is (except, perhaps, New Zealand, who have an embarrassment of riches right now), England don't have a clue.

In this latest game, we had players playing out of position, we had an utterly clueless England making basic mistakes, we had Charlie Hodgson (who was having a bad game, certainly) removed on 50 minutes for a 20 year old kid who was then told to go out and rescue the game in his first international. No wonder he threw an intercept pass.

The "structure" England ar eplaying with is chaotic. England scored two fine tries on Saturday through individual brilliance from Sackey and Balshaw - they weren't team tries in any way shape or form.

This collection of England players aren't world beaters. But they are largely a young side and can improve. The problem is that we don't know who are the best players, and we don't know how they best play. How on earth we ended up in this position so close to a World Cup is incredible.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
spinzels
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 13):
Face it, it's the case with all English sport. One year the stars and the moon line up by some divine intervention they are able to string together a performance that beats all others. For the other 40-50 years, mediocre or crap.

Do you mean like the All Blacks in the World Cup? In 1987 the stars aligned and they won...and for the last twenty years they have been mediocre (1991, 1995) or crap (1999, 2003).
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777ER
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:33 pm

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 7):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.

Yeah but then people have to go to Wellington to watch it.

And the same can be said for all of New Zealanders who would need to go to Auckland just to watch it. Westpac Stadium has all the public transport needed less then 400 metres away, the railway station less then 300 metres away, Interislander ferrys less then 300 metres away, bluebridge ferry less then 200 metres away, eastbourne ferry less then 300 metres away, intercity bus terminal less then 300 metres away, regional buses less then 400 metres away. Charter buses could park at the 30 odd bus parks at the stadium, at the centreport wharf, which can park around 200 buses in the areas where charter buses park for the cruise ships, intercity bus terminal can hold around 6 buses and is connected to the stadium walkway, trains platforms are connected to the stadium walkways, more buses can park at the regional bus terminal. Cruise ships were used as hotels that were berthed over the road from the stadium. Wellington is currenlty having four 4* star pluc hotels currently being built or about to be built. Wellington regional council is also aiming to have an easier public transport to the airport by 2011, current ideas are a monorail or extending the current train tracks from the railway station to the airport. What other new zealand stadiums has so many public transport options within very easy walking distance?

Quoting SpinalTap (Reply 14):
Don't know how much it would cost to upgrade Westpac but would seem a waste to rebuild major sections of such a new stadium if thats what it would require?? Has there been anything in the Dom Post?

There was an article the day after it was announced that AKL would get it. There are plenty of unused rail yards beside the stadium which would make excellent use as car parks and bus parks
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ZKSUJ
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:18 pm

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 18):
Do you mean like the All Blacks in the World Cup? In 1987 the stars aligned and they won...and for the last twenty years they have been mediocre (1991, 1995) or crap (1999, 2003).

They wer'nt exactly mediocre in 1995, in 1999 pretty much the whole team was mediocre towards the end of the tournament except Lomu. 2003, could not agree more.

Quoting DC10Tim (Reply 5):
. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one team in it. And Dan Carter - what a star!

I rekon if Dan Carter was injured, then the AB's would still be a pretty good team. There are alot of others in there in other positions with alot of skill and talent as well.
 
9VSRH
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:29 pm

Geez, the All Blacks have so much depth! It's unbelievable!
 
VHVXB
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:52 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 20):
There are alot of others in there in other positions with alot of skill and talent as well.

Macallister is questionable though Aaron Mauger is pretty good replacement
 
Banco
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:00 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 20):
I rekon if Dan Carter was injured, then the AB's would still be a pretty good team.

I agree. Carter is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. In the modern era I've never seen a New Zealand team with so much depth in it. Whether New Zealand can improve further is the question, because their rivals certainly will in the run-up to the World Cup.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
spinzels
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 20):
Quoting Spinzels (Reply 18):
Do you mean like the All Blacks in the World Cup? In 1987 the stars aligned and they won...and for the last twenty years they have been mediocre (1991, 1995) or crap (1999, 2003).

They wer'nt exactly mediocre in 1995, in 1999 pretty much the whole team was mediocre towards the end of the tournament except Lomu. 2003, could not agree more.

So we agree that in the World Cup the All Blacks are pretty mediocre...as for "crap", that would be too kind a description for Kiwi cricket, football, or in fact any sport besides rugby, right?

Quoting 9VSRH (Reply 21):
Geez, the All Blacks have so much depth! It's unbelievable!

It's not unbelievable given that the All Blacks are not really a national side, they exploit the Pacific Island Unions as a cheap and fertile source of rugby talent. (This is a consistent Kiwi trait, just ask Tenzing Norgay).
I've been to Paradise, but I've never been to me
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 19):
And the same can be said for all of New Zealanders who would need to go to Auckland just to watch it. Westpac Stadium has all the public transport needed less then 400 metres away, the railway station less then 300 metres away, Interislander ferrys less then 300 metres away, bluebridge ferry less then 200 metres away, eastbourne ferry less then 300 metres away, intercity bus terminal less then 300 metres away, regional buses less then 400 metres away. Charter buses could park at the 30 odd bus parks at the stadium, at the centreport wharf, which can park around 200 buses in the areas where charter buses park for the cruise ships, intercity bus terminal can hold around 6 buses and is connected to the stadium walkway, trains platforms are connected to the stadium walkways, more buses can park at the regional bus terminal. Cruise ships were used as hotels that were berthed over the road from the stadium. Wellington is currenlty having four 4* star pluc hotels currently being built or about to be built. Wellington regional council is also aiming to have an easier public transport to the airport by 2011, current ideas are a monorail or extending the current train tracks from the railway station to the airport. What other new zealand stadiums has so many public transport options within very easy walking distance?

The accessability is not my point. I mean people have to BE in Wellington to see it
 
VHVXB
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 24):
It's not unbelievable given that the All Blacks are not really a national side, they exploit the Pacific Island Unions as a cheap and fertile source of rugby talent. (This is a consistent Kiwi trait, just ask Tenzing Norgay).

hmm well its more like some of the Pacific Islanders go to New Zealand in search of a better career rather than NZRU exploiting and poaching. Clear example is Joe Rokocoko and Rupeni Caucau. Both players were born and raised in Fiji, both played in the Super 12 comp and had the chance of representing the All Blacks. Rupeni refused and Joe accepted and has been very successful. In Saying that there are quite a few pacific islanders playing for AB's which are in the starting lineup
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 18):
Do you mean like the All Blacks in the World Cup? In 1987 the stars aligned and they won...and for the last twenty years they have been mediocre (1991, 1995) or crap (1999, 2003).

Oh, don't get me wrong, the All Blacks are chokers when it comes to the world cup, but in terms of the quality of the team, they have been number 1 for probably 75% of the last 20 years.

Not to mention a "chokers" set of world cup results of:

1st, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, (I think)
 
spinzels
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 26):
hmm well its more like some of the Pacific Islanders go to New Zealand in search of a better career rather than NZRU exploiting and poaching.

Spoken like a true mercantilist (you Kiwis are ruthless!). Take foreign players, developed cheaply, pay a pittance transfer fee and in 36 months they magically turn into an All Black. (Best not to rely on a birth certificate, ehh?) It’s not really the player that is being exploited but rather the Island Union. Without All Black predation, and some better management, the Pacific Islands would be one of the top sides in international rugby.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 27):
Not to mention a "chokers" set of world cup results of:

1st, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, (I think)

In a competition with effectively four (maybe five) competitive nations that record is mediocre to poor.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 25):
The accessability is not my point. I mean people have to BE in Wellington to see it

The most sensible solution is to give the Tournament back to the Japanese and let New Zealand cater exclusively to the Bilbo Bagins set.
I've been to Paradise, but I've never been to me
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 24):
It's not unbelievable given that the All Blacks are not really a national side, they exploit the Pacific Island Unions as a cheap and fertile source of rugby talent. (This is a consistent Kiwi trait, just ask Tenzing Norgay).

I think you'll find that the ethnic/cultural make-up of the All Blacks over the last few uyears is reasonably representative of the the ethnic/cultural make up of the country, which I think is fine.

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 28):
The most sensible solution is to give the Tournament back to the Japanese and let New Zealand cater exclusively to the Bilbo Bagins set.

That's a classic!
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 29):
I think you'll find that the ethnic/cultural make-up of the All Blacks over the last few uyears is reasonably representative of the the ethnic/cultural make up of the country, which I think is fine.

Sums it up nicely I think.
 
VHVXB
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:32 pm

games on this weekend
Saturday
England v South Africa
France v New Zealand
Italy v Argentina
Scotland v Pacific Island

Sunday
Ireland v Australia (16.00
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:43 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 31):
England v South Africa

Boks, (just)

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 31):
France v New Zealand

NZ by 15

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 31):
Italy v Argentina

Italy by 5

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 31):
Scotland v Pacific Island

Scotland by 20


And on Sunday, Wallabies by 5
 
oli80
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:13 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 31):
games on this weekend
Saturday
England v South Africa
France v New Zealand
Italy v Argentina
Scotland v Pacific Island

Sunday
Ireland v Australia (16.00

So Wales aren't playing huh!?  Wink

They are putting out a very strong XV against Canada. I'm expecting close to triple figures. I think this will also be the squad to play the ABs (except I think that if Jones has recovered, he'll be in).

Since their Grand Slam victory, Wales have had serious injury problems too. I think that most are returning now and I hope that Wales will follow up the autumn internationals with a successful 6 Nations and World Cup.
 
VHVXB
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting Oli80 (Reply 33):
So Wales aren't playing huh!?

hey I got this of an International Rugby site and I didn't see the fixtures for Wales there
 
oli80
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:23 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 34):
hey I got this of an International Rugby site and I didn't see the fixtures for Wales there

They are actually playing on Friday night, but that is technically the weekend though.  Wink
 
spinzels
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 32):
Quoting VHVXB (Reply 31):
France v New Zealand

NZ by 15

Huh? Sorry guys, but you can't be dubbed "otherworldly" and then try to play the expectations game. I would say NZ by 30+. I saw an interview with Pelous after the match and he said the margin could be 60+, 70+.

Pelous is of course out for this weekend, the AB clearly did an O'Driscoll on him, I noticed him getting up slowly by the fifth minute. Beating France by 40+ is one thing, beating down Pelous is beyond description.

Quoting Oli80 (Reply 33):
They are putting out a very strong XV against Canada. I'm expecting close to triple figures. I think this will also be the squad to play the ABs (except I think that if Jones has recovered, he'll be in).

I hope Jones can come back in. Hook is the most exciting young player in rugby who doesn't wear a black kit. But another test match at outside is too much for a twenty year old kid. Jones is class and so very Welsh even if he is no match for Daniel Carter or even Freddie Michalak. I think Wales can keep it within 20 against the ABs, their pack is physical enough.
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Derico
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:36 am

I think Argentina wins by 10 or more. For a change against Italy, the Pumas actually are getting to train and strategize as a team, unlike any other top 10 team, who spend weeks together, including England when they played an Argentine side that had about 60 hours practice.
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oli80
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 36):
I hope Jones can come back in

Me too!

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 36):
Jones is class and so very Welsh even if he is no match for Daniel Carter or even Freddie Michalak

He is a great player and I think his time in France has served him well. I just hope he gets fit soon. Preferably in time for next weekend.

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 36):
I think Wales can keep it within 20 against the ABs, their pack is physical enough

You know, I'm of the belief that if Wales can keep it tidy (no silly errors) and take New Zealands game style to them (and out of all the European teams, they are most able to do this) we could have a real match on ours hands.

Personally, I'm really looking forward to Williams vs. McCaw. Should be a real battle!

And in regards to the WC and the ABs, we've seen it before, their dominant form making them favourites only to slip up each time.  Wink

(spell check still down)
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 36):
I would say NZ by 30+.

It'll certainly be interestig to see if France can turn it around to any degree after last weekend. They got absolutely caned.

Quoting Derico (Reply 37):
including England when they played an Argentine side that had about 60 hours practice.

Yes, but being together a long time merely confused this particular England side.  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 24):
It's not unbelievable given that the All Blacks are not really a national side, they exploit the Pacific Island Unions as a cheap and fertile source of rugby talent. (This is a consistent Kiwi trait, just ask Tenzing Norgay).

Coming from a brit that's too much. Ask Banco - who has been handed his hat on this subject for believing every fleet street hack he reads - just what the reality is.

Please name the all blacks who aren't really NZer's or shut up.

Shall we disect ANY british team in ANY sport and see the lengths you lot go to to fill them up - grand parent who got laid in brtish port, you're in ... and still you suck !
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Banco
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 40):
sk Banco - who has been handed his hat on this subject for believing every fleet street hack he reads - just what the reality is

I've told you before when you raised this. It wasn't me that said it at all; I was involved in the thread, but didn't get involved in the argument you had on the subject.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
pacificjourney
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:17 am

Fair enough - though I swear you quoted the Independant - but back me on this as you know it's true.

At worst some current or former AB's may have moved to NZ in primary school and that's about it. What people don't seem to realsie is that more Samoans live in NZ than in Samoa, more Tongans than in Tonga, etc etc.
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Banco
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:28 am

I think I did link the Independent (or whatever) article in a kind of "Light the blue touchpaper and retire" kind of way. Then someone else (beautifully!!) joined in and you had the row with them.

I coudn't actually back you up or otherwise really. I don't know enough about it, in truth.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 39):
It'll certainly be interestig to see if France can turn it around to any degree after last weekend. They got absolutely caned.

Mark my words, if history has anything to do with it, the AB vs France game is going to be closer than anticipated

Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 40):
Please name the all blacks who aren't really NZer's or shut up

Only one I can think of is Sivivatu. Rococoko was educated and spent at least his youth here in NZ.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 7):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
One thing that is annoying me, is New Zealand hosting the 2011 world cup. Auckland and the NZ government could make NZ loose the right to host it all thanks to their ideas and fighting on where to build a new stadium to meet IRB rules. One place that has heaps of space and can easily be expanded and built in way less time and cost way less then building a new stadium over the harbour in AKL, is Wellingtons Westpac Stadium. The Westpac Stadium could be expanded into the railyards and expand the current carparks also into the railyards. The rail tracks closest to the stadium are rarly used. The Westpac most likly has way more room to expand then NZs other stadiums.

Yeah but then people have to go to Wellington to watch it.

The Caketin would have to be almost completely rebuilt (and its only a few years old to start with). There is hardly any accomodation in Wellington, the airport is shut half the time and the ferries get stopped everytime there is a storm. Yes there is good public transport there...if you live in/around Wellington but is useless so far as the rest of the country is concerned.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 19):
And the same can be said for all of New Zealanders who would need to go to Auckland just to watch it. Westpac Stadium has all the public transport needed less then 400 metres away, the railway station less then 300 metres away, Interislander ferrys less then 300 metres away, bluebridge ferry less then 200 metres away, eastbourne ferry less then 300 metres away, intercity bus terminal less then 300 metres away, regional buses less then 400 metres away. Charter buses could park at the 30 odd bus parks at the stadium, at the centreport wharf, which can park around 200 buses in the areas where charter buses park for the cruise ships, intercity bus terminal can hold around 6 buses and is connected to the stadium walkway, trains platforms are connected to the stadium walkways, more buses can park at the regional bus terminal. Cruise ships were used as hotels that were berthed over the road from the stadium. Wellington is currenlty having four 4* star pluc hotels currently being built or about to be built. Wellington regional council is also aiming to have an easier public transport to the airport by 2011, current ideas are a monorail or extending the current train tracks from the railway station to the airport. What other new zealand stadiums has so many public transport options within very easy walking distance?

The fact of the matter is that Wellington is a small city, has a shitty little airport that gets closed a lot (especially during winter when rugby is played), and that Auckland is the only city in New Zealand with the population base to support a large stadium, is the only city with enough hotels/accomodation to support that large stadium, and is the only city that has more than a small handfull of international flights.
As for the accesability issues you raise... well a waterfront (or my prefered option of Carlaw Park) is also right next to the train terminal (Britomart/old railway station), it is right next to the end of a motorway, Auckland has about 40,000 carparks within 10 minutes walk of the site, there are ferry services that leave from the ferry terminal (about 5 mins walk), there are about 20,000 people living within 10 mins walk of the sites and about 200,000 within 15 mins drive, 600,000 within 30 mins drive, 1.3million within 1 hours drive and about 2.2 million within 2 hours drive.

Quoting Spinzels (Reply 28):
Quoting VHVXB (Reply 26):
hmm well its more like some of the Pacific Islanders go to New Zealand in search of a better career rather than NZRU exploiting and poaching.

Spoken like a true mercantilist (you Kiwis are ruthless!). Take foreign players, developed cheaply, pay a pittance transfer fee and in 36 months they magically turn into an All Black. (Best not to rely on a birth certificate, ehh?) It�s not really the player that is being exploited but rather the Island Union. Without All Black predation, and some better management, the Pacific Islands would be one of the top sides in international rugby.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 27):
Not to mention a "chokers" set of world cup results of:

1st, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, (I think)

In a competition with effectively four (maybe five) competitive nations that record is mediocre to poor.

Actually New Zealand has a very large population of Islanders that were born here, and many that have lived here most of their lives. Get your facts straight next time... 1 flying Fijian winger and you make such a large generalisation.

Hmm, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, England, France, Wales, Argentina, Ireland. That makes 8 competitive nations... New Zealand is the only team to be in the semi finals of every single world cup, is the only team to have a positive winning % against all nations.
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pacificjourney
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 43):
Then someone else (beautifully!!) joined in and you had the row with them.

No row, you linked to some half-arse at that paper, I countered by actually showing that most - if not all - that he mentioned were born here and you declined to reply.

When I win the bet next year I hope you're not so quiet.
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VHVXB
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 44):
Only one I can think of is Sivivatu. Rococoko was educated and spent at least his youth here in NZ.

Jerry Collins Mils Muliana. Both Born in Samoa

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 45):
That makes 8 competitive nations... New Zealand is the only team to be in the semi finals of every single world cup, is the only team to have a positive winning % against all nations.

This is true but do you think the AB's are happy after their previous world cup performance I think not. Counts for nothing if you make it to every semi final and not win especially a team like the All Blacks and calibre of players they have.
 
spinzels
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 40):
Please name the all blacks who aren't really NZer's or shut up.

C'mon mate, let's take it up a notch from "shut up", I'm sure were both ruggers here (me a former these days --just too old) and we should show each other the same respect here as we would on the pitch. If you want to get nasty there are plenty of U.S. political threads, you can go have a ball. Like those on the pitch let us hold ourselves to a higher standard. Okay, sorry to get preachy and call you out, but I'm sure you understand. 'Nuff said.

I don't know about "really NZers", my claim was that several All Blacks were not born in NZ. This info is readily available on the ABs website, so I'm not exactly sure why you just didn't check there, but I'll help you here: those who were not born in NZ are: Jerry Collins, Greg Rawlinson, Chris Masoe, Rodney So'oialo, Mils Muliaina, Joe Rokocoko, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Isaia Toeava—so a little less than half of a 22 man AB squad is non-native. Is there a single national side in any sport which fields a squad of almost 50% non-natives?

Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 40):
Shall we disect ANY british team in ANY sport and see the lengths you lot go to to fill them up - grand parent who got laid in brtish port, you're in

With respect to English teams (and I'm not sure why you are asking me to defend the English), sure there are some players who were not born in England. Michael Owen is one. (Although some people consider Chester an English town, it is far too pleasant to be English) Owen Hargreaves, not born in England too. A few rugby players too, from SA and Australia. But no country, except the "All Blacks", fields a squad of 50% non-natives.

Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 40):
... and still you suck !

No one can suck like a Kiwi, at least that's what the Swiss say.

And seriously friend, before you go off spouting that Enlish teams suck, realize there is a sporting world outside Rugby Union and in that world NZ can't look up high enough to see England (and true, England can't look up high enough to see Australia). I would locate NZ well below Nepal, but a bit above Patagonia.

Quoting Pacificjourney (Reply 42):
At worst some current or former AB's may have moved to NZ in primary school and that's about it. What people don't seem to realsie is that more Samoans live in NZ than in Samoa, more Tongans than in Tonga, etc etc.

Meaning what, exactly? There are several million Dominicans living in the U.S., that doesn't mean that Vladimir Guerrero and Albert Pujols put on a U.S. kit in this year's "Baseball Classic". Who does Tony Parker play for, the U.S. or France? Messi has lived in Spain since he was nine…he plays for Argentina. Just like the haka, the All Blacks are an exception to the rule that wouldn't be tolerated in any other team sport.
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spinzels
Posts: 332
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RE: International Rugby Thread

Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 45):
Get your facts straight next time... 1 flying Fijian winger and you make such a large generalisation.

Actually nine players from four different countries scattered across the Indian and Pacific Oceans. Not a generalisation at all.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 45):
Hmm, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, England, France, Wales, Argentina, Ireland. That makes 8 competitive nations... New Zealand is the only team to be in the semi finals of every single world cup, is the only team to have a positive winning % against all nations.

Wales, Argentina, and Ireland have not ever even made into a semifinal in almost twenty years of competition. They are not competitive nations. Get your facts straight next time Sparky.
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