jimyvr
Posts: 1597
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Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:15 am

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006611160497

Quote:
A Hancock County couple have filed a lawsuit against Starbucks, accusing a Fishers store of serving scalding hot chocolate that seriously burned their little girl.

Michael and Alexis Brennan filed the suit Tuesday in Marion Superior Court on behalf of their daughter, Rachel........

......Brennan ordered a child's hot chocolate with whipped cream and an adult hot chocolate without whipped cream at the drive-through. According to the lawsuit, Starbucks' policy is to serve child drinks at lower temperature than adult drinks to avoid kids getting burned.

Brennan handed her daughter the child drink, and as she pulled away from the window, it spilled into Rachel's lap......
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IFEMaster
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:22 am

Absolutely ridiculous. Especially because Starbucks are watertight on this (my wife works for them). Every cup has the words "Careful, the beverage you are about to enjoy is extremely hot" printed on it. The woman is an absolute idiot and discredit the gene pool. She stands no chance.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Brennan handed her daughter the child drink, and as she pulled away from the window, it spilled into Rachel's lap......

I know I'm approaching this with an ounce of comon sense, but what in hells name is she doing handing her child something which is likely to be very hot and could potentially be dangerous, then driving away so that she is not able to keep a close eye on what her daughter is doing. It would though help to know just how old the girl was.

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Cadet57
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Source:
skin on Rachel's leg was falling off of her.

Umm. This I highly doubt. What place makes a beverage that hot that it burns skin off. Furthermore, that would mean it would have to burn thru whatever article of clothing she was wearing. Im assuming since it was a hot chocolate it was cooler out and so she was wearing pants. So basicly this hot chocolate was so, well, hot that it burned thru pants and into her skin... Im sorry but im calling    on this one. Ive spilt a venti latte on me before, and othern then a hot feeling the second I did it and a pissy milk smell in my car after I was ok...

[Edited 2006-11-17 22:05:25]

[Edited 2006-11-17 22:06:05 Because I cant quote right]

[Edited 2006-11-17 22:06:45]
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Goldenshield
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 3):
[quote:Source]"skin on Rachel's leg was falling off of her."

[/quote]

Stick a fork in her, that kid's ready to be served!
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:08 am

The sad thing is these parents will probably win and be rewarded for their stupidity.

I hurt my finger typing a message on a.net and my eyes are bad from staring at my computer screen....can I sue?
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srbmod
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:12 am

Maybe she should have ordered a Lukewarm Chocolate instead..........

I too must raise the  redflag  on this woman's claim of "skin on Rachel's leg was falling off of her." Per the Starbuck's website, their hot chocolate is made with steamed milk. When steaming milk, the temperature of the milk will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 150F, +/- a few degrees, or at most 165F, as milk starts to scald at 175F. By comparison, the hot water from a coffee brewer comes out at between 195-205F. I've spilled hot water from a machine on my hand and the worst thing that has happened is a minor scald that hurts for a little bit.
 
legoguy
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:16 am

What a complete waste of tax payers money. This is such a pile of crap. People will do anything for money these days.

If Starbucks had served the childs drink at a lower temperature, they'd probally be getting sued for not making the cup warm enough.
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Cadet57
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 7):
ey'd probally be getting sued for not making the cup warm enough.

Im going to order an Iced Frappachino and sue for frostbite when I spill it on me.  Wink
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LeonB1985
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:36 am

I'd think drive-through Starbucks would be a recipe for disaster in terms of drink spillage. I think the daugher should sue her mother for stupidity and behaving irresponsibly - handing a child a hot/warm drink in a car, driving off, then complaining that the child gets burned... *tuts*
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OB1504
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 1):
Every cup has the words "Careful, the beverage you are about to enjoy is extremely hot" printed on it.

As if that wasn't enough, the name "Hot Chocolate" should at least imply that the beverage is going to be hot.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):
Per the Starbuck's website, their hot chocolate is made with steamed milk. When steaming milk, the temperature of the milk will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 150F, +/- a few degrees, or at most 165F, as milk starts to scald at 175F. By comparison, the hot water from a coffee brewer comes out at between 195-205F. I've spilled hot water from a machine on my hand and the worst thing that has happened is a minor scald that hurts for a little bit.

I once spilled some steamed milk on my leg a few months ago (don't ask why I was drinking some in a Florida summer), and nothing really happened aside from the fact that my jeans just felt really hot and I jumped up and let out some expletives.
 
nkops
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
A Hancock County couple have filed a lawsuit against Starbucks, accusing a Fishers store of serving scalding hot chocolate that seriously burned their little girl.

This brings back the whole McDonalds case when the lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued (and I believe won) McDonalds because it was hot.
Anything for easy money... watch as these stupid parents get rewarded!!

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8):
Im going to order an Iced Frappachino and sue for frostbite when I spill it on me.

"That would be like me suing Hustler for carpal tunnel"- Larry the Cable Guy
:evil:
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 9):
I'd think drive-through Starbucks would be a recipe for disaster in terms of drink spillage. I think the daugher should sue her mother for stupidity and behaving irresponsibly - handing a child a hot/warm drink in a car, driving off, then complaining that the child gets burned... *tuts*

There are several things that don't make sense here:

1) Mother is driving.

2) Child is is back seat, in a booster seat, which means that the child is most likely under the age of 6, and knowing that children in that age range aren't exactly the most nimble when it comes to handling drinks, a spill will happen.

3) Was the child holding the drink between her legs? Where are the cup holders?
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Cadet57
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):
he name "Hot Chocolate" should at least imply that the beverage is going to be hot.

It should, but alas, this is america and we are a bunch or ass backwards lawsuit happy freaks...

Quoting Nkops (Reply 11):
That would be like me suing Hustler for carpal tunnel"- Larry the Cable Guy

What? No meal? I paid 99p for this ticket! Im suing Ryanair!
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:47 am

I read the article. The age of the child was not given, but the child was in a child restraint seat.

What moronic mother gives a child in a child restraint seat a hot beverage while she is driving? Where is CPS (Child Protective Services) with this? Why isn't the mother being charged with neglect?

You can't cure stupid.
You can't cure stupid
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 11):
This brings back the whole McDonalds case when the lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued (and I believe won) McDonalds because it was hot.

Yeah, NKops - it was hot enough that it caused 3rd degree burns to her legs, thighs, genitals, and perineum. She asked McDonalds to recoup her medicals and they flat out said no, so I can't blame her for sueing.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 15):

I think the McD's case was different becasue it was found that they did brew the coffee too hot and as a resutlt had to change that.
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nkops
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 16):
I think the McD's case was different becasue it was found that they did brew the coffee too hot and as a resutlt had to change that.

I did not know that.. thank you!!
:evil:
 
srbmod
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 15):
Yeah, NKops - it was hot enough that it caused 3rd degree burns to her legs, thighs, genitals, and perineum. She asked McDonalds to recoup her medicals and they flat out said no, so I can't blame her for sueing.

I still call a  redflag  on this one as well. That coffee would have had to have been boiling in order to give a person 3rd degree burns. There is not a coffee maker out there (commercial or household) that heats water that hot. And unless the pot of coffee was on a stove, it's close to impossible to boil anything on a coffee burner.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:13 am

Do you really give a child in a child restraint seat in a backseat while you are driving, a hot beverage with a warning about the contents of the contained beverage on the container that the adult is responsible for?

Freakin' idiots out there. Why do some people need to gravitate towards lawsuits as a way of dealing with their own stupidity.

The mother should just say, "I f***ed up and gave my child a hot beverage and I shouldn't have." Let the mother deal with her guilt of her child's burns (because of her stupidity and thoughtlessness) as opposed to potential litigation.

You can't cure stupid.
You can't cure stupid
 
jaysit
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:20 am

Well, at least its GOOD hot chocolate!!!

This case will be dismissed in no time. The mother is an irresponsible twat. I bet she's a big fat cow too, who has no business drinking a 500 calorie fat-laden drink.

Remember the McD's case about 10 years ago? Initially, the jury awarded the scalded woman tens of millions of dollars, an award that was reduced by the judge to only about $ 100 K.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 7):
What a complete waste of tax payers money.

How is this frivolous lawsuit a waste of taxpayers money? Even if this woman won, the taxpayer would be unaffected.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 20):
How is this frivolous lawsuit a waste of taxpayers money?

Well if it goes to court. Courts are tax payer funded...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
YYZflyer
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:30 am

The mother must have been very irresponsible to give a hot drink to a child in a child restraint seat.  redflag   redflag  This would happen only in the U.S.  Yeah sure

I hope Starbucks wins. People are just finding easy ways to get money.
Avoid hangovers, stay drunk.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 22):
People are just finding easy ways to get money

Well this IS the holiday season now. Im sure she must have so much useless shit to buy for the kiddies that she needs some cash...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 22):
This would happen only in the U.S.

At least 90% of the time. Someone else has to fill in for when someone in the US doesn't.

But agreed, nonetheless.
You can't cure stupid
 
jaysit
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 21):
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 20):
How is this frivolous lawsuit a waste of taxpayers money?

Well if it goes to court. Courts are tax payer funded...

Good point.

However, such cases are often deemed to be frivolous, and are often dismissed before trial.

Moreover, both US federal and state laws prohibit attorneys from bringing frivolous cases, and the judge can impose a penalty in the form of monetary damages on those greedy or lazy attorneys who bring such suits. It doesn't happen often enough, but it happens enough to be a deterrent in many instances.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
OB1504
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:18 am

I think that the "You're old; you don't need your genitals, anyway!" attitude that McDonald's adopted toward the lady who burned herself with the hotter-than-average coffee contributed to the large jury award.
 
N231YE
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:05 am

Consensus? The mother is too stupid to have/deserve children...

This waste of docket space for a *freaken' frivolous lawsuit is what crowds out available space for legitimate cases. Sounds like this woman is too stupid to understand government, let alone, common sense.
 
legoguy
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 25):
However, such cases are often deemed to be frivolous, and are often dismissed before trial.

I certainly hope so in this case.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
bushpilot
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:08 am

Unfortunatley Starbucks will probably end up settling out of court to actually save money defending itself in any potential lawsuit unless a judge throws it out as frivilous. The litigous attitude that is so pervasive in this country is a problem. I can understand legitimate personal injury attorneys out there fighting for the little guy when done wrong. But you get all these TV advertisements...HAVE YOU BEEN HURT BY ANYTHING? CALL US!
Well shit I got struck by lightning. Gonna have to sue the local weatherman. WTF?!
I work part time as a barista, When I know the order is for a kid, I purposefully make the drink cooler. I also make sure that if the order is to go, that they get a sticker over the drink hole in the lid to prevent spills.
What I am envisioning is her Mom handing over the drink in the back seat, and then gunning the car out of there. For her to get burns that bad, the lid would have to have come off. I would put 20 bucks down that it came from that Mom taking off at a high rate of speed causing that spill.
BTW, did anyone else notice the incident happened over 2 years ago. 11/2/04
 
ATAIndy
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 1):
The woman is an absolute idiot and discredit the gene pool.



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
but what in hells name is she doing handing her child something which is likely to be very hot and could potentially be dangerous, then driving away so that she is not able to keep a close eye on what her daughter is doing.

Oh CRAP!!! I live two county's away from her, I need to high tail it out of here! Big grin

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 7):
If Starbucks had served the childs drink at a lower temperature, they'd probally be getting sued for not making the cup warm enough.

 rotfl  Stupid people are funny.

Quoting Nkops (Reply 11):
Anything for easy money... watch as these stupid parents get rewarded!!

Yeah someday I want to sue lawsuits for their stupidity.

-Feister
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-MIA, MIA-IND
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:33 pm

I'll throw a couple of these  redflag  redflag  in too.


What are these parents teaching their kids? Sue Starbucks - what kind of message does that teach the kid? My dad taught me "play with fire, get burnt." (Oh and there was also that thing about taking responsibility) She played with something hot and got burnt. The sun comes up in the morning and life goes on. And I doubt it was that hot - see Srbmod's Reply #6.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
kiramakora
Posts: 470
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 31):
She played with something hot and got burnt.

I have no idea why I find this so funny.
 
jimyvr
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting Nkops (Reply 11):
This brings back the whole McDonalds case when the lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued (and I believe won) McDonalds because it was hot.

According to the people who posted their comment on the news website, the McDonald's thing was due to the designing flaws of the cup.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
cfalk
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 1):
Absolutely ridiculous. Especially because Starbucks are watertight on this (my wife works for them). Every cup has the words "Careful, the beverage you are about to enjoy is extremely hot" printed on it. The woman is an absolute idiot and discredit the gene pool. She stands no chance.

 checkmark  on the first part, but as the McDonalds suit proved, people can still win lawsuits even when they showed (what I feel is) gross neglect.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 20):
How is this frivolous lawsuit a waste of taxpayers money? Even if this woman won, the taxpayer would be unaffected.

And not only that. EVERYsingle lawsuit that is successful that makes a major company pay out, YOU end up paying for it. Starbucks will simply raise the price of a cup of coffee by a dime all around the country (nobody would notice), and there you go. Their bottom line stays the same, and the public takes it in the butt. Same with medical malpractice suits. If a doctor has to pay half his earnings to malpractice insurance, that just means it costs you twice as much for every consultation or procedure.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
ajd1992
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbuc

Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 14):
You can't cure stupid.

Take the warnings off everything, let the problem solve its self  Silly
 
galapagapop
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 16):



Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 16):
I think the McD's case was different becasue it was found that they did brew the coffee too hot and as a resutlt had to change that.

True, but thanks to the media circus behind it, now that she won (and rightfully so to a degree) now people think they are not liable for spilling something hot on themselves, even when it says it is hot.

The word liability needs to be retaught at schools, from something that you look for from companies to something everyone themselves has!
 
CXA330300
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:38 am

While I do feel sorry for the little girl, the case itself screams its the womans fault. Simply science: the hot drink spilled not due to its temperature, but the way the woman drove. It could have been homemade coffee in a styrofoam cup.
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satx
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbuc

Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:07 pm

Wow, all the tort reform fanboys are already calling the verdict and claiming that it's all nothing but bogus nonsense, even though we only have a very short article to go on so far. I must say that it takes a lot of balls to refer to the McDonald's coffee case when even the Stella Awards folks admit that it wasn't an open-and-shut case and that McDonald's could have saved themselves a lot of grief just by bothering to explain why they used significantly hotter coffee than most other restaurants and by not trying to attack the elderly woman who had to undergo skin grafts.

I don't know if this specific case is frivolous or not, I simply don't have enough to go on yet, but I'm personally willing to put up with a few frivolous trials in order to ensure I will have my own day in court should the need ever arise. I know a lot of folks here in Texas who decry every lawsuit that doesn't meet their narrow definition of legitimate. However, many of these same folks are quick to recommend a lawsuit whenever a friend or family member is faced with something less than desirable thanks to the possible negligence of another. Am I really the only American who's noticed this and is willing to call folks out for it?
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
Boston92
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 37):
It could have been homemade coffee in a styrofoam cup.

Yeah, if it was homemade, then who would you sue? Nestle? Foldgers?
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 1):
Absolutely ridiculous. Especially because Starbucks are watertight on this (my wife works for them). Every cup has the words "Careful, the beverage you are about to enjoy is extremely hot" printed on it. The woman is an absolute idiot and discredit the gene pool. She stands no chance.

Unfortunately, being stupid isn't illegal.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
I know I'm approaching this with an ounce of comon sense, but what in hells name is she doing handing her child something which is likely to be very hot and could potentially be dangerous, then driving away so that she is not able to keep a close eye on what her daughter is doing. It would though help to know just how old the girl was.

What kind of idiot parent hands a child who is sitting in a child restraint seat ANYTHING that is other than room temperature and then starts driving?

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 14):
I read the article. The age of the child was not given, but the child was in a child restraint seat.

What moronic mother gives a child in a child restraint seat a hot beverage while she is driving? Where is CPS (Child Protective Services) with this? Why isn't the mother being charged with neglect?

You can't cure stupid.

No, you can't. What makes things worse is that she is going to be rewarded for being stupid.

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 33):
According to the people who posted their comment on the news website, the McDonald's thing was due to the designing flaws of the cup.

And because the idiot woman stuck a hot cup of coffee between her legs and drove away from the drive in window.

Quoting SATX (Reply 38):
I must say that it takes a lot of balls to refer to the McDonald's coffee case when even the Stella Awards folks admit that it wasn't an open-and-shut case and that McDonald's could have saved themselves a lot of grief just by bothering to explain why they used significantly hotter coffee than most other restaurants and by not trying to attack the elderly woman who had to undergo skin grafts.

Yes, let's put all the blame on McDonald's. That the woman didn't use a proper cup holder is of no consequence, right?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
satx
Posts: 2771
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 40):
Yes, let's put all the blame on McDonald's. That the woman didn't use a proper cup holder is of no consequence, right?

She put the cup between her legs in a parked car to add cream and sugar. I don't know about you, but I've done the same thing a hundred times and never once thought anything about it. Some of the issues that made life tough for McDonald's were as follows.

- They served coffee that was roughly twenty degrees hotter than most other restaurants

- They provided no legitimate explanation for why their coffee was so much hotter

- They had refused to place any warning label or instruct their employees to explain that their coffee was significantly hotter than other restaurants

- They had ignored literally hundreds of formal burn complaints over the course of years without explanation and without lowering the temperature of their coffee

McDonald's also took a page out of the Exxon-Mobile play book by choosing to challenge their accuser's continued need for her genitalia. I don't think anyone feels McDonald's carried all of the blame, and in fact I'm not sure how I would have ruled if I had been on the jury, but they certainly seemed to have brought some of the liability on themselves by their inability to answer some rather basic questions and by ruthlessly attacking the plaintiff.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
Dougloid
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):
When steaming milk, the temperature of the milk will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 150F, +/- a few degrees, or at most 165F, as milk starts to scald at 175F. By comparison, the hot water from a coffee brewer comes out at between 195-205F. I've spilled hot water from a machine on my hand and the worst thing that has happened is a minor scald that hurts for a little bit.

This subject came up in one of my classes so I took my lab grade Fluke digital thermometer and put it under the discharge spout of my Gevalia coffee maker. The discharge temperature was 150 degrees f. Other students reported similar temps on their in home coffee makers. Apparently the people who make home appliances are a lot more cognizant of what causes burns than the folks who brew coffee professionally. McDonalds learned their lesson. 195-205 degree water would inflict second degree burns so you must be made of asbestos.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
cfalk
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 41):
She put the cup between her legs in a parked car to add cream and sugar. I don't know about you, but I've done the same thing a hundred times and never once thought anything about it.

Call me crazy, but if I want to make sure I don't spill, I would sit down at a table. Since when is the driver's seat of a car supposed to be a dining area?
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
satx
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbuc

Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 43):

Call me crazy, but if I want to make sure I don't spill, I would sit down at a table. Since when is the driver's seat of a car supposed to be a dining area?

Most people, including myself, probably didn't know a cup of McDonald's coffee was so hot it could cause 3rd degree burns if spilled. Also, she wasn't driving or in the driver's seat. The car was stopped after traveling through the drive-through so she could add her cream and sugar. Putting myself in the place of the driver, I wouldn't have known that McDonald's coffee could have possibly caused so much harm and thus wouldn't have realized I was risking the well being of a family member by just stopping and expecting them to get their coffee fixed up. Putting myself in the shoes of the elderly woman, I probably wouldn't have made a fuss about parking the car and going inside just to add cream and sugar to my coffee.

Why you are so willing to exclusively see only one side in this case is beyond me. I'm not saying the woman wasn't partially at fault, but I've never understood why all the tort reform fanboys keep referencing this case when in all honesty it's not very cut-and-dry who bears most of the burden. In the end McDonald's lowered the temperature of their coffee and everyone was happy. Why couldn't they have just done that sometime prior in the years leading up to the lawsuit? It just doesn't make much sense to me.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
cfalk
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 44):
I'm not saying the woman wasn't partially at fault, but I've never understood why all the tort reform fanboys keep referencing this case when in all honesty it's not very cut-and-dry who bears most of the burden.

She was entirely at fault because she chose of her own free will to stir up her coffee in an inappropriate place. Sticking a hot liquid between your thighs is begging for an accident. It's not a stable place to put it. It's as simple as that. She bought coffee. Not a full service - coffee. In a cup. What she does with it is her responsibility.

Quoting SATX (Reply 44):
In the end McDonald's lowered the temperature of their coffee and everyone was happy.

No they are not. Tomorrow morning, as usual on Sundays I go play golf. I will be stopping by a McDonalds on the way and will be getting myself a big cup of coffee. By the time I get on the course, the coffee will already be lukewarm. I want it hot. I want coffee that will stay hot that I can nurse through the first half dozen holes on a cold day. I used to be able to do that. Now I can't, because of this clumsy oaf.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
satx
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbuc

Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:26 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 45):
No they are not. Tomorrow morning, as usual on Sundays I go play golf. I will be stopping by a McDonalds on the way and will be getting myself a big cup of coffee. By the time I get on the course, the coffee will already be lukewarm. I want it hot. I want coffee that will stay hot that I can nurse through the first half dozen holes on a cold day. I used to be able to do that. Now I can't, because of this clumsy oaf.

So we went from general ignorance to sour grapes in a matter of a single post? Is there some reason you can't make the coffee yourself, or pour it into a better insulated container or warm it up with all your endless hot air?
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
jwenting
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 16):

I think the McD's case was different becasue it was found that they did brew the coffee too hot and as a resutlt had to change that.

They found that, despite conclusive evidence presented in court that the coffee was no hotter than coffee you get anywhere else...
Go figure, the jury system at its worst.
They rewarded the claim for no other reason than that they were seeing the dollar signs in their own eyes for future lawsuits they might launch.

Starbuck and McD (and others) have been sued quite regularly over too hot drinks ever since, usually either settling or winning.

The original case has now made its way into teaching material for tort lawyers on how to pervert justice to get big bucks out of big macs.
I wish I were flying
 
cfalk
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting SATX (Reply 46):
So we went from general ignorance to sour grapes in a matter of a single post? Is there some reason you can't make the coffee yourself, or pour it into a better insulated container or warm it up with all your endless hot air?

Is there some reason that that woman is incapable of drinking her coffee in a safe place?

If that logic is good enough for me it should be good enough for her.

And no, because the McD's is right outside the golf club and thus I can have fresh hot coffee out on the links. If I fix it at home it will be an hour old already.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
halls120
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RE: Hot Chocolate Burnt Daughter; Mom Sues Starbucks

Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 41):
She put the cup between her legs in a parked car to add cream and sugar. I don't know about you, but I've done the same thing a hundred times and never once thought anything about it.

My car has drink holders. That is where I add sugar to my coffee if I buy it at a drive through. I would never use the seat between my legs to add cream and sugar to a hot beverage. It isn't level, and anyone with any sense ought to realize that when you remove the top of a beverage container while the container isn't level, that there is a good chance a spill will result.

Quoting SATX (Reply 44):
Most people, including myself, probably didn't know a cup of McDonald's coffee was so hot it could cause 3rd degree burns if spilled.

When I'm handling a hot item, I take precautions to ensure that I won't be burned. Call me crazy, but I understand that fire burns, and that hot coffee might very well produce an uncomfortable sensation if it is contacts bare skin.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography

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