aaflt1871
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Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:23 am

Where did everybody go?
 
charlienorth
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:29 am

Joining the Mel Gibson club???
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SlamClick
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:40 am

Well, I just checked the Apollo Theater website. He is NOT on their calendar.

Yet another reason why I don't much care what celebrities have to say when they are not performing. They have an act and that is about it, damn few of them have an actual personality or mind or any character behind it.

Drugs maybe?
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
aaflt1871
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
Drugs maybe?

Quite Possible. I had met this man a few years ago at a charity dinner and he was a very soft spoken person. So to see this was a shock to me. If not drugs or alcohol, maybe the frustration has gotten to him that he really has found no success since Seinfeld ended. He will always be typecast as a Kramer type character. I am sure his PR people will try and save face by annoucing that Michael is going into some type of rehab facility.
Where did everybody go?
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:11 am

"Richards, who played the wacky Cosmo Kramer on the hit TV show "Seinfeld," appeared onstage at the Laugh Factory in West Hollywood. Kyle Doss, an African-American, told TMZ he and some friends were in the cheap seats and he was playfully heckling Richards when suddenly, the comedian lost it. "

They were being assholes and he called them on it. You don't go to a comedy club and heckle the comedian. That's not the place for you to voice your opinion. You go there, listen and leave. If you don't like what's going on get up and leave.

They deserved it.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:16 am

WOW...

All I can say is...WOW.

So from what I can see he flipped out because some black folks where talking during his routine. I know that can be annoying. It is rude. I've been in audiences at comedy clubs and movies where people, did that. But WOW. To single them out like that and say what he said? It was uncalled for. He's supposed to be a funny guy. Black comedians make fun of the tendency for Black people to talk at shows all the time. You'd think he could have retooled one of their jokes to make his point and make it funny.

You do have to wonder if he is frustrated over the lack of post-Seinfeld success. However, when someone really comes unhinged their true feelings come out, so I think he was showing his true colors.

I think we have the 2006 winner of the Saddam Hussein Career Move Award.

Previous winners include Shelly Long and David Caruso. He just leaped into the lead formerly held by John Kerry.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
They deserved it.

Well...

They deserved any barbs he felt like sending their way, or even being bounced from the club. On the other hand, hurling the N-grenade like that is an insult and offense to ALL African-descended persons and indeed to anyone who cares about other humans.

What is more, it is almost certainly actionable in court.

P.S. Yes world! There are cameras on you.
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UALPHLCS
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
They were being assholes and he called them on it.

I agree.

But if he was a good comedian he could have done it in a funny way without resorting to demeaning people.

They were assholes and he became one himself because he couldn't think of a way to make people laugh at them.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
They were assholes and he became one himself because he couldn't think of a way to make people laugh at them.

For example, he could have said: "Hey, pipe down there in front, or I'll have to knock a Titleist into YOUR blowholes."
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
prosa
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:04 am

Seinfeld is one of the most popular TV shows in syndication, being shown by stations all over the country and undoubtedly earning a fortune. It'll be interesting to see if some stations are pressured into dropping the show. Of course Richards is just one of four major characters, but the extreme nature of his outburst might lead to some pretty extreme reactions.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 6):
What is more, it is almost certainly actionable in court.

You're kidding right? You can't go to prison for calling someone a nigger. Sometimes free speech is offensive.
 
aaflt1871
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
They were being assholes and he called them on it

Calling them on it is one thing, turning it racial is another.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
You don't go to a comedy club and heckle the comedian

I have been to several comedy clubs where this has happened including the Laugh Factory in this video, and each time the comedian will come back and work off of the heckler drawling laughter from it. If the heckler gets too bad, maybe just a person who was born an ass and wants to keep going, club bouncers are to escort the heckler out of the building so not to ruin the other partrons time.

Quoting PROSA (Reply 9):
. It'll be interesting to see if some stations are pressured into dropping the show

That will not happen
Where did everybody go?
 
jaysit
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:25 am

"How to tell a Joke" by Kramer and Kerry.

Now priced to go for only $ 0.99 with "How to stay thin by hating" by Ann Coulter and "Teletubbies take over Hanoi" by GWB and Angela Merkel.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 5):
You do have to wonder if he is frustrated over the lack of post-Seinfeld success.

I'm sure that he is still loaded and could care less.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
Dougloid
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:40 am

I dunno....was he trying to do a Lenny Bruce type thang?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
fspilot747
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):

They deserved it.

Ok Strom.

When Mel Gibson went on his drunken rant, it was "breaking news" and "headline news" and was a front page story.

Richards loses his cool and goes off by calling audience members niggers and making historical references to discrimination (in public, even) and it gets barely a mention on the networks.
 
Bobster2
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:20 am

Reminds me of "The Doors" infamous Miami concert. Alcohol. Main difference was Richards didn't get arrested.

The important thing is "Seinfeld" season 7 is released tomorrow. Woo-hoo!!!
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:26 am

What Richards did and said was way over the line . . . period. Not funny and racist. He's a has been and has been for a while. The short lived series he had (and Jason Alexander had) after Seinfeld simply sucked. He's fallen even further with this stunt.

Now . . . .

Let me ask a question: If the comic using the "N" word had been a black man or woman, would there be an uproar?

What makes it OK for someone of color to use that word - repeatedly - in their 'comedy' routines, but as soon as a white man says it, it makes National News?

Hypocrites anyone?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
NIKV69
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
They were being assholes and he called them on it. You don't go to a comedy club and heckle the comedian. That's not the place for you to voice your opinion. You go there, listen and leave. If you don't like what's going on get up and leave.

They deserved it.

Are you for real? Sure they deserved it but why call them niggers? Why make racial slurs? He crossed the line. Big time. What shocked me more was when they got up and were walking they were telling him that what he said was uncalled for and he said "That is what happens when you interrupt the white man!" That was a little telling. He screwed the dog bigtime here. He almost looked like he was melting down. He better get on camera and make a sincere apology now. What he did was wrong.
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
They deserved it.

Uhmmm NO they didn't. There was no need to bring race into the situation. Especially when a white man calls a black man the N word.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Let me ask a question: If the comic using the "N" word had been a black man or woman, would there be an uproar?

What makes it OK for someone of color to use that word - repeatedly - in their 'comedy' routines, but as soon as a white man says it, it makes National News?

Hypocrites anyone?

Sorry ANC I'm gunna have to disagree with you here. It's not hypocritical. A white person can never call a black person the N word. Period. Plain and simple.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:47 am

Whats funny is that those people who were heckling him were no better, they turned around and called him a cracker.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 19):
A white person can never call a black person the N word

I quite agree. Absolutely.

I think you miss my point here. IF Michael Richards had been a black man, would there be the uproar over his use of the "N" word?

Answer: NO. It is socially acceptable IMO for a black man to use that word in reference to other black persons. That makes anyone using that word, and then complaining about it be directed towards them, a hypocrite . . .

Sorta like the assmonkey that doesn't vote but goes on to bitch about the administration!
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 19):
Especially when a white man calls a black man the N word.



Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 19):
It's not hypocritical. A white person can never call a black person the N word. Period. Plain and simple.

While I agree that it is wrong for anyone to call anyone else the "N" word, I fail to see why Richards' being white makes the word WORSE. I know, I know, Black comedians and Black people call one another that all the time, but frankly if they want the word to disappear then it has to be taboo to use for everyone, Black, White, Asian, Pink polka dots.

It is hypocritical to use that word privately then get upset if someone else uses that word, especially if you make using it worse if someone is of another race. Its reverse racism. It perpetuates hate. people shouldn't use it no matter who they are and everyone ought to be outraged no matter who says it.

Let me ask you this:

Why does Quentin Tarantino get to use it with impunity in Pulp Fiction and other movies, while Richards doesn't? I think both uses are wrong, and the difference in the way people react to the two situations IS hypocritical.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
jfk69
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:05 am

One great thing about cringe comedy is that the comedian will not only think the worst thing, but then go ahead and say what we are all thinking, but don't have the balls to. I am not saying I agree or disagree with "Kramer" here but the sad part here is probably about half the comedy club were thinking the same thing.....He just happened to be the one that called them out on it.
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
think you miss my point here. IF Michael Richards had been a black man, would there be the uproar over his use of the "N" word?

Answer: NO. It is socially acceptable IMO for a black man to use that word in reference to other black persons. That makes anyone using that word, and then complaining about it be directed towards them, a hypocrite . . .

Sorta like the assmonkey that doesn't vote but goes on to bitch about the administration!

I see what you're saying my friend however, if a Black person uses that word it doesn't have the same aggression and hatred behind it as opposed to another race using it. I mean look at the history of the word, and how it was used by whites. When a Black person calls another Black person the N word, 99% of the time it is not meant in the hateful way it would be if someone from another race called a Black person the word. Even if a white person calls a Black person the N word, and doesn't intend to mean it hatefully, it is nearly impossible to distinguish that he or she didn't mean it offensively.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
While I agree that it is wrong for anyone to call anyone else the "N" word, I fail to see why Richards' being white makes the word WORSE. I know, I know, Black comedians and Black people call one another that all the time, but frankly if they want the word to disappear then it has to be taboo to use for everyone, Black, White, Asian, Pink polka dots.

Again, look at the history of White people using it against Black people. You do make a good point about the word should be taboo for all, however refer to my reply to ANC's post.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
Why does Quentin Tarantino get to use it with impunity in Pulp Fiction and other movies, while Richards doesn't? I think both uses are wrong, and the difference in the way people react to the two situations IS hypocritical.

Because they are movies. Richards was performing at a live event. It was real life.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 24):
Because they are movies. Richards was performing at a live event. It was real life.

That's splitting hairs. A performance is a performance.

It's just as wrong for Richards to use it as it is for Tarantino to use it in an artistic way.

The word will never go away if people keep using it black and white.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 25):
That's splitting hairs. A performance is a performance.

Yes, but Richards was being heckeled. His commentary was not part of his performance, it was added. Unless it was some big PR stunt to get his name out there, which I doubt.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 25):
It's just as wrong for Richards to use it as it is for Tarantino to use it in an artistic way.

True, it makes things a bit complicated. But when an actor or actress plays a murderer in a movie, is he or she one in real life? I think people see the difference between when the word is used in a movie or script, as opposed to real life situations.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 25):
The word will never go away if people keep using it black and white.

This is true.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
fspilot747
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In

Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Answer: NO. It is socially acceptable IMO for a black man to use that word in reference to other black persons. That makes anyone using that word, and then complaining about it be directed towards them, a hypocrite . . .

ANCFlyer, when blacks use it, it's usually a socially jovial form of referring to each other. Blacks generally say it to blacks, among blacks, in a certain type of context.

The way Richards said it was more of a hate thing. His underlying racist attitudes surfaced when he became infuriated. It's very different from what, say, Chris Rock might call an all black audience. "What's up niggas!" vs. "You fucking nigger! Get them out of here!"

The contrast is crystal clear.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:01 am

Look kids! A falling star!

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
They were being assholes and he called them on it.

No, this is not how a comedian of talent 'calls someone'. Heckle them back, be witty, be clever - but dropping an n*bomb? Nooooo way.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
That's not the place for you to voice your opinion. You go there, listen and leave. If you don't like what's going on get up and leave.

Well, yes, this is true. However:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
But if he was a good comedian he could have done it in a funny way without resorting to demeaning people.

It you are going to make it in Stand Up, you've got to be able to deal appropriately with the hecklers.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 5):
You do have to wonder if he is frustrated over the lack of post-Seinfeld success.

That's what crossed my mind. There might be some personal issues at play as well. To be honest, such thoughts are just speculation at this point.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 24):
I see what you're saying my friend however, if a Black person uses that word it doesn't have the same aggression and hatred behind it as opposed to another race using it. I mean look at the history of the word, and how it was used by whites. When a Black person calls another Black person the N word, 99% of the time it is not meant in the hateful way it would be if someone from another race called a Black person the word. Even if a white person calls a Black person the N word, and doesn't intend to mean it hatefully, it is nearly impossible to distinguish that he or she didn't mean it offensively.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 22):
While I agree that it is wrong for anyone to call anyone else the "N" word, I fail to see why Richards' being white makes the word WORSE. I know, I know, Black comedians and Black people call one another that all the time, but frankly if they want the word to disappear then it has to be taboo to use for everyone, Black, White, Asian, Pink polka dots.

Again, look at the history of White people using it against Black people. You do make a good point about the word should be taboo for all, however refer to my reply to ANC's post.

I think you're bending over backwards here. It's offensive. Racial stereotypes are in poor taste at best no matter who uses them-why give permission?

If black folks figure it's not a bad thing because one of their own uses the hateful word, then they're fools because it's so value laden. I'm not about to make that assumption that I'm per se off base in my choice of language because of my skin color and they're OK because of theirs-that's the worst sort of patronization.

And it is value laden in a way that other ethnic epithets are not...f'rinstance that man in the audience called Richards a cracker....well, I guess I'm a cracker (I know for sure my old man was a Florida cracker) and I do not feel particularly offended...that farther along the continuum you get the more hateful the words become....

It's a question of pointing out the mote in thy brother's eye while ignoring the beam in one's own, right?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:01 pm

I've just had the chance to view CNN's news story on Richards' little rant. What a complete disaster for him. His tirade was truly uncalled-for. But worse, it makes me question what he really thinks, underneath all that Hollywood glitz.

Brave men and women of all colors are dying overseas just so that people like Richards can say whatever they desire in peace. For this, the public receives the filth of the kind he said in fury, meant, apparently, to injure and disparage to the core. It saddens me greatly that a public figure like him cannot set a better example.

[Edited 2006-11-21 04:18:46]
What's fair is fair.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 24):
I see what you're saying my friend however, if a Black person uses that word it doesn't have the same aggression and hatred behind it as opposed to another race using it.

But it should.

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 27):
ANCFlyer, when blacks use it, it's usually a socially jovial form of referring to each other. Blacks generally say it to blacks, among blacks, in a certain type of context.

Same answer.

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 27):
The way Richards said it was more of a hate thing.

Agreed, as you can see, I've made that clear way back.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
What Richards did and said was way over the line . . . period. Not funny and racist. He's a has been and has been for a while. The short lived series he had (and Jason Alexander had) after Seinfeld simply sucked. He's fallen even further with this stunt.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Bobster2
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 pm

Richards went on the Letterman show to apologize. He was surprisingly honest, he admitted to feeling rage and hatred, took full responsibility without blaming alcohol or any other substance. Seinfeld was on Letterman to plug the new DVD, but he had to give up some of his time to deal with the Richards disaster. Pre-taped for broadcast later tonight at the regular time.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 33):
Richards went on the Letterman show to apologize.

That's awfully big of him. I guess this is what happens "when a white man" commits an offense. [/Sarcasm, directed at Richards.]

As Mel Gibson did before, Richards did what I think was irreparable damage to his career. What a fool. Now that I think about it, it seems to me it couldn't happen to a "nicer" guy.

[Edited 2006-11-21 04:16:34]
What's fair is fair.
 
fspilot747
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 34):
Richards did what I think was irreparable damage to his career

What career? I think that's what those guys were making fun of, in fact.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 35):
What career? I think that's what those guys were making fun of, in fact.

Oh, he may have a long career ahead of him yet -- as a has-been who, just perhaps, never was.
What's fair is fair.
 
jaysit
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Answer: NO. It is socially acceptable IMO for a black man to use that word in reference to other black persons. That makes anyone using that word, and then complaining about it be directed towards them, a hypocrite . . .

Then you just don't get it.

When black people use the N-word, its co-opting that word and rendering it harmless. The use of the N-word by black folk is to take a demeaning invective and turn it into the nothing it is through context.

Its the same thing with every minority. The terms wog, fag, spic, whatever when used by the minority itself turn an offensive term upside down. When anyone else uses that term as an invective it is just that - an invective.

Just think about it. When family members make fun of one of their own, its all acceptable. But when an outsider comes in and does the same, its no longer acceptable. Anyone with half a brain would get it.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Bobster2
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 34):
irreparable damage to his career

What career? I looked him up on Wikipedia and half the article is devoted to his racist rage. They have the uncensored transcript of what he said. He didn't have much of a career other than playing Kramer on "Seinfeld".

edit:

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 35):
What career?

We both said the same thing.  Smile

But this doesn't change the fact that he was great on "Seinfeld". I'm not going to let this ruin the new DVD release.

[Edited 2006-11-21 04:24:49]
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
Just think about it. When family members make fun of one of their own, its all acceptable. But when an outsider comes in and does the same, its no longer acceptable. Anyone with half a brain would get it.

Agreed.

This is also why it is that although I often criticize Democrats and leftists in America, when it comes right down to it, I feel protective of all Americans, regardless of political affiliation. Deep down, whether we're left or right, we all share this country, and we all share in its fate. We're all Americans.

For blacks to criticize their own is different from when any outsider does it, and particularly when the outsider does it in anger as if the use of the vilest of language, and the most horrific of metaphors, is in any way justified in an attempt to vent and, apparently, to injure. No one has the moral right to use such words except one who lives with the hurt that it inflicts. The fact that someone like Richards has the legal right to say what he did, does not in any way mean that it was right to do so.

It would be as if a Hollywood celebrity had said in anger, to a Jewish audience member, "You're a big man here, aren't you? Too bad Hitler couldn't have killed you all, you dirty k*ke." Even as a non-Jew, I would be infuriated by any such reference. What Richards did was, in my view, comparable, as against black Americans, and it was far beyond merely unacceptable. It was absolutely sickening. In my opinion, Richards deserves all the criticism he gets.

[Edited 2006-11-21 04:48:34]
What's fair is fair.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Answer: NO. It is socially acceptable IMO for a black man to use that word in reference to other black persons. That makes anyone using that word, and then complaining about it be directed towards them, a hypocrite . . .

Then you just don't get it.

I get it better than you do apparently.

Read the rest of my posts, this thread.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
Just think about it. When family members make fun of one of their own, its all acceptable. But when an outsider comes in and does the same, its no longer acceptable. Anyone with half a brain would get it.

We're not talking about making fun of a family member here. You make fun of mine (save for my Mother) and I'll buy you a beer, or three. Apples and oranges.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
The terms wog, fag, spic, whatever when used by the minority itself turn an offensive term upside down.

And the term remains offensive, and the person using said term is ignorant and demeans themselves with the use of the term. Nope, Jaysit - it's YOU that doesn't get it.
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thvgjp
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:15 pm

[quote=Bobster2,reply=38]He didn't have much of a career other than playing Kramer on "Seinfeld".[/quo
You said it, the guys typecast as Kramer and thats it. I did see him in a old Miami Vice eposode a cople of months ago. It was filmed befor Seinfeld, tough seeing him act as a coked out drug dealer in the rerun.. all I can think of was Kramer
 
fspilot747
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:38 pm

ANCFlyer, kind of like how only Jews can make fun of jews?

Sacha Cohen goes off on Jews a lot, and so do pretty much all Jewish comedians. The reaction would not be the same if some Arab guy said the same stuff.

You can make fun of yourself, but when others pounce on you, it's different.
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 19):
There was no need to bring race into the situation. Especially when a white man calls a black man the N word.



Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 19):
It's not hypocritical. A white person can never call a black person the N word. Period. Plain and simple.



Quoting Jaysit (Reply 37):
When black people use the N-word, its co-opting that word and rendering it harmless. The use of the N-word by black folk is to take a demeaning invective and turn it into the nothing it is through context.

Maybe it's harmless among blacks, but to say that among a mixed crowd, at the least, would probably make most people uncomfortable. Would you be comfortable if you were in a mixed group (whites, blacks, latin folks, etc.) and you heard a couple of the black guys calling each other the "N" word? Or if two of the white guys in the same group were Jews, would be as permissive if they called themselves the "K" word?

If I talked amongst other white folks - and only white folks - and spoke of my pasty, white, Caucasian butt, it probably would not be a big deal. Now if I spoke of my pasty, white, "cracker" butt, it probably would still not be a big deal - but it might make some people uncomfortable. Now if I said that last one in a mixed crowd (blacks, latins, whites, Asians), it would probably raise a few eyebrows. Whether blacks say the "N" word amongst each other or if whites tossed around "cracker" amongst each other - to do that in public puts images in other people's minds, namely "so is it ok to say stuff like that, or not?" . There can't be a double-standard, or else

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 25):
The word will never go away if people keep using it black and white.

Edited for grammar.

-R

[Edited 2006-11-21 06:05:20]
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:15 pm

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 42):
ANCFlyer, kind of like how only Jews can make fun of jews?

I get it, believe me . . . . I get it.

I simply don't condone it - whether in racially mixed company or in ones own back yard - it's ignorant, degrading and doesn't speak well of whomever is using it. It's reflective of defective upbringing. And it's perpetual. Kids listen to parents and think it's okay and the cycle perpetuates itself. It's improper, it's bad form, it defies logic, ill-mannered, ignorant. It's NOT funny.

"Comedians" that think it's funny are ignorant. It's NOT funny. Chris Rock may be a funny sonofabitch but when he resorts to using the "N" word he loses credibility. Sacha Cohen - and Jackie Mason - my be funny as hell, roll on the damn floor funny - but using racial epithets to describe someone is ignorant and they lose credibility. I can do without their "comedy".
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AirWillie6475
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:21 pm

That black guy called Richards a "cracker-ass", sorry but where is the outrage on that?? I am in no way defending what Kramer said but there is a big double standard here. It's ok for the black guy to call the white a cracker but when he's called a nigger its bad.
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:40 pm

Whew! I just saw that. Ooo Ooo Ooo. Guy is a racist.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
They were being assholes and he called them on it.

Yea they were being assholes. He could have called them assholes but he called the niggers instead. That is different my friend.
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:00 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 45):
That black guy called Richards a "cracker-ass", sorry but where is the outrage on that?? I am in no way defending what Kramer said but there is a big double standard here. It's ok for the black guy to call the white a cracker but when he's called a nigger its bad.

No, that's not right, either. And I'm not defending it.

But, as I see it, Richards is primarily at fault because, as a show business professional, he shouldn't have lost his cool.

I'm not a big fan of "no-fault" analyses. There is a measure of fault that is to be allocated here and it should be done fairly. If it hadn't been for Richards' racist comments to begin with, the audience member wouldn't have been provoked to -- childishly -- respond in kind.

Further, Richards' share of the blame is also much larger because he made so many more offensive remarks than the audience member.

Finally, there is the question of whether Richards' diatribe had been part of a comedic act. There is some indication that he tried to mitigate his remarks with asides that could be taken to show that he wanted them to be seen in this way. Ironically, had Richards not subsequently conceded that he had said what did out of rage, I would possibly have given him the benefit of that doubt. Now that he's admitted that he lost his temper, I see no reason to consider doing so.

[Edited 2006-11-21 08:04:01]
What's fair is fair.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:45 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 45):
That black guy called Richards a "cracker-ass", sorry but where is the outrage on that?? I am in no way defending what Kramer said but there is a big double standard here. It's ok for the black guy to call the white a cracker but when he's called a nigger its bad.

Huh? I doubt that they called him a "cracker ass" first. He went on his racist tirade and them he was called names. I would've done the same thing if I was in the audience having my race attacked like that. Totally uncalled for. Hopefully what he had left of a career is over, people like this shouldn't be in the public eye.

Jeremy
 
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RE: Michael "Kramer" Richards Blows Up On Stage In LA

Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 1):
Joining the Mel Gibson club???

I think this incident is worse, partly because it was taped and was released to the public, and partly because it seems drugs/alcohol were not a factor. I never saw Mel get on TV and apologize though, maybe because it wasn't taped?

I watched Richards on Letterman and he did seem very serious about his apology for his actions. Both he and Seinfeld were displeased when members of the audience laughed.
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