Alessandro
Topic Author
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Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:06 am

Seem like Pierre Gemayel, industrialminister of Lebanon and leader of the Falangiste been shot dead today, more here http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Edited 2006-11-21 16:07:39]
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Beaucaire
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:15 am

Very bad news - let's hope this will not spark off another ralley of civil conflicts.....
Syria should absolutely manage to control their secret service rambos- just yesterday there were slim signs of hope,with the anouncement of diplomatic ties being re-established between Baghdad and damascu.
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Kay
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
with the anouncement of diplomatic ties being re-established between Baghdad and damascu

Beaucaire this is exactly why this happened today (in my opinion of course). Syria is now in a fresh new effort of cooperation with the US regarding Iraq so that pressure is lifted from its operations in Lebanon and it can maneuver to take back Lebanon's government.

6 ministers resigned last week, but that is not enough since 8 must go down to topple the government. 1 was murdered today. 1 to go and the old governemnt is old news.

Those who are doing this (Syria using Hizbullah's resources and palestinian camps) couldn't do this if it didn't have some assurance that world powers were turning a temporary blind eye.


My opinion of course,
Kay
 
Alessandro
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:34 am

Well, too early to point at any direction, but anyway, the Syrians are always on the list of presumed assassins in Lebanon, together with the Israelis.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Very bad news

most shocking ! the Syrian Mukhaberat ? Hizbullah ? or President Lahoud ?
whatever, here another link :
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....n_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=77064
plus: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...48-E1F9-42B7-829B-CDCCC25A335E.htm
-
if I remember correctly, already his father, President Amin Gemayel was assassinated
-
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:42 am

I tend to agree with your assessment ,Kay- the evil spirits have woken up again.
It's such a pity Syria can't manage to jump over it's shadow and become a constructive element in the region.Most Syrian's completely disagree with their government's politics but have to keep their mouth shut...
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MattRB
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Kay (Reply 2):
6 ministers resigned last week, but that is not enough since 8 must go down to topple the government. 1 was murdered today. 1 to go and the old governemnt is old news.

Presumably anonymous phonecalls and letters are being sent out, threatening anti-Syrian members of government with the same fate as Gemayel unless they resign.

Any bets that the with their new Syrian friends that the US (and, by extension, the world) is going to turn a blind eye to the goings on in Lebanon?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
Kay
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:12 am

I don't really blame the US, though. One only invests where one has interests. Lebanon is a very small country and very unimportant when it comes to the worries that the US has today.

Therefore, if you count the US out, and Europe's support "theoretical" as usual, you can see why Lebanon's current government is a minority: it is the majority in Lebanon itself but is the minority when you count the truckloads of people from Syria and Iran that are going to "democratically" topple the government Thursday.

Kay
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:34 am

I'm very much afraid that this spells tough weeks ahead ( again...!!!) for Lebanon !
When will this country find normality and peace ????
The US couldn' worry less about Lebanon than any other place on this globe without petrol or strategic economical interests to them.
Europe will -as usual- pay lip-service and hide behind diplomatic bullshit phrases.The ones that will pay are the Lebanese population -as usual.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
tough weeks ahead ( again...!!!) for Lebanon !

I in spite of that very sad  crying  and embarrassing matter hope that things will keep calm and will in the end get under control. Mr Georges Gemayel will get replaced in his functions, and the successor will have to continue where Mr Gemayel left. As it is said in such situations "life has to go on" .  thumbsup  yes 
 
Kay
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:24 am

And just now (10min ago) they shot at the second minister's office.
That's how you topple a government. You just shoot enough ministers until it is "constitutionally" void.

Kay
 
Falcon84
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 4):

most shocking ! the Syrian Mukhaberat ? Hizbullah ? or President Lahoud ?

Syria? Hezbollah? ME AVN FAN, how can you say such a thing about such a stalwart against terrorism like Syria? Or against those brave fighters who held those horrible Israeli's to a standstill?

Blasphemy coming from your fingers, sir.  Yeah sure
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Beaucaire
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
Syria? Hezbollah? ME AVN FAN, how can you say such a thing about such a stalwart against terrorism like Syria? Or against those brave fighters who held those horrible Israeli's to a standstill?

There had to come some unqualified statements - a sad enough situation does not need stupid comments....
Most people here on this forum don't have any blue-eyed ideas on who's to blame . So please refrain from cheap comments that basically are meant to disrecdit ME AVN FAN.His opinion might not be your's -but that does not give any reasons to start a cheap polemic.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 12):
a cheap polemic.

we of course could start a lousy polemic and flamebait by accusing Mossad, the CIA or whomever. But I on the basis of the situation do NOT feel like that at all. I am, as stated, optimistic, but the situation at present reminds me of spring 1975. I pray, that the future for Lebanon nevertheless and in spite of all odds, is and will be the way UP and appeal to all the Lebanese on this board NOT to give up hope.
-

[Edited 2006-11-21 19:29:03]
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:32 am

Second attack



"In a separate incident, shots were fired on the office of a Lebanese minister of state, shortly after Gemayel's death.

"The office of the state minister for parliamentary affairs, Michel Pharaon, in the Ashrafieh neighbourhoodm was the target of gunshots today from gunmen in a white Suzuki car," Pharaon's office said.

"The security forces cordoned off the area and is carrying out the necessary measures to identify the culprits" who fled the scene.

Pharaon is a Greek-Catholic Christian MP from the majority anti-Syrian parliamentary bloc."
From : Al Jazeera..
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MEA310
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 4):
if I remember correctly, already his father, President Amin Gemayel was assassinated

No, I guess you are referring to Bashir Gemayel, the brother of Amin.

Quoting Kay (Reply 10):
And just now (10min ago) they shot at the second minister's office.

False information, it was reported later on that the incident took place at 12:10 , some 3 hours before the assasination took place.


MEA310
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Falcon84
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 12):
There had to come some unqualified statements - a sad enough situation does not need stupid comments....
Most people here on this forum don't have any blue-eyed ideas on who's to blame . So please refrain from cheap comments that basically are meant to disrecdit ME AVN FAN.His opinion might not be your's -but that does not give any reasons to start a cheap polemic.

Keep your opinion to yourself if all it is supposed to do is tell me to keep mine to myself, Beaucaire. ME AVN FAN cannot escape the fact that on this board he's been an unabashed apologist for Syria, and pointing that out is very legitimate.

So your request is brusquely denied.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
we of course could start a lousy polemic and flamebait by accusing Mossad, the CIA or whomever.

I'm half surprised you didn't, or that someone else on here didn't accuse Mossad of that.

This has all the earmarks of Syria/Iran/Hezbollah, the usual culprits in trying to destabalize the region. And the U.S. should be sending a stern warning to both to leave Lebanon alone.

Syria/Iran/Hezbollah instigated the conflict with Israel this summer, and this is their continuing attempt to try to destabalize and eventually remove the government of Lebanon, and putting a terrorst group in charge of that nation.
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Marco
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:23 am

RIP Pierre Gemayel. Go to hell Hezbollah, we all know your only allegiance is to your shia brothers in Iran. Thanks for ruining Lebanon!
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sprout5199
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Kay (Reply 7):
don't really blame the US, though. One only invests where one has interests. Lebanon is a very small country and very unimportant when it comes to the worries that the US has today.

I think it is more about having 248 Marines killed in 1983. Same reason why we will never go back to Mogadishu.

Dan in Jupiter
 
rjpieces
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:27 am

And people on this site mocked me when I said that Lebanon will only see more instability in the future?????
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting MEA310 (Reply 15):
referring to Bashir Gemayel

thanks for the information

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 18):
248 Marines killed in 1983

bad and sad, but isn't that history ?

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19):
Lebanon will only see more instability

too easy to forecast, and it not only is Lebanon.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
bad and sad, but isn't that history ?

Yes it is, however I dont think the US wants to repeat that part of history. I would have much rather seen the US in Lebanon than Iraq, at least there we might have helped. But because there is no oil, and we do have a bad history there, we will not go back.

Dan in Jupiter
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:58 am

This is what the Lebanese get for not disarming the Hezbollah terrorists. The same will continue until either the Hezbollah terrorists are disarmed and removed as a second government, or they depose the deomcratically elected government and impose islamic law across Lebanon.

In the mean time, certain apologists will continue to stall and insist that this is all a normal part of mid-east life, and that Lebanon will survive and rise again.

If you don't properly clean a wound, it will become infected, fester, and eventually become gangrenious.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 22):
impose islamic law across Lebanon.

this will NOT happen. Not just because Hizbullah is a minority party of about 12% of the people, but because the army, not exactly a strategic asset otherwise, will NOT tolerate this, and also because Syria will NEVER tolerate an Islamic law Lebanon as this would be a threat to the Assad regime. What some in Damascus however dream about is a "reunification" of Syria and Lebanon, or at least to recapture more influence. What role Hizbullah and Syria and General Lahoud etc played in that assassination is not so easy to determine.
-
The following is on the WEBsite www.sana.org, the Syrian News Agency :
-******************************************************
Syrian Information Minister Dr. Mohsen Bilal said that Syria strongly condemned the assassination of the Lebanese Industry Minister Pierre Gemayel, expressing profound condolences to the family of the deceased.
-------
In a statement to al-Jazeera satellite TV channel on Tuesday, Dr. Bilal added that Syria considered the crime as targeting the Lebanese national dialogue and accord and at the same time against Syria as well.
--
The Minister described the accusations directed against Syria as totally lacking truth, reality and credibility. He depicted those who repeated baseless and false accusations against Syria as patients, questioning how could they accuse Syria from the very first moment while they covered up the true collaborators.
-
******************************************************
difficult to say whether reflecting truth or just a cover-up, but Syria at least is distancing itself from that assassination
-

[Edited 2006-11-22 18:45:53]
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
this will NOT happen. Not just because Hizbullah is a minority party of about 12% of the people, but because the army, not exactly a strategic asset otherwise, will NOT tolerate this,

They are already tolerating it, and it will happen. Hezbollah does not need to win free elections to take control, they will do it by coercion. They just keep assassinating the opposition's political leaders one by one until no one dares to stand up to them. This is very similar to the Nazis in Germany. The Nazi's were never the majority party before they came to power. After they came to power, party membership was required to get anything done, thereby increasing the power of the Nazis.

Hezbollah are just murdering facists of another stripe. If you cannot see it, you are blind.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:21 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 24):
They are already tolerating it, and it will happen.

They do NOT tolerate it. Lebanon is NOT a fundamentalist country. And it will NOT happen.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 24):
Hezbollah does not need to win free elections to take control, they will do it by coercion. They just keep assassinating the opposition's political leaders one by one

They canNOT do it that way. And they will NOT succeed to assassinate whomever they wish. They failed in case of Mr Pharaon, and they will fail in case of all those who are careful. And in the worst case scenario, THEIR leaders may even get "removed" in retaliatory steps. And you write about "opposition's political leader" but apparently mean the majority leaders. Hizbullah is the opposition. They at present try to get into a coalition with (Shi'ite) Amal Party and with the "movement" of (Christian) Mr Aoun. Neither Mr Berri nor Mr Aoun are known to be people ready to get dominated by a partner, which means that Hizbullah is ready to forget some of their ideology in favour of some more power, and the wealth connected to that power.
-
While there of course IS a danger of civil war existing, I would say, what Hizbullah theoretically might be able to do is to bring about turmoil, but again, Syria is NOT interested in overall turmoil. They are interested in more influence, more trade and more money. They are in need of a functioning seaport of Beirut. And AGAIN, the "ideal result" in the Syrian perspective would be a "Anschluss" (to use YOUR analogy to Nazi-Germany) of Lebanon into the Syrian "Empire" !
-
 
bravo45
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:46 pm

This is a sad sad development. I get the feeling that someone doesnot want to see Lebanese unity. Its amazing how much Lebanon has taken in just the recent past.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:07 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 26):
This is a sad sad development. I get the feeling that someone doesnot want to see Lebanese unity. Its amazing how much Lebanon has taken in just the recent past.

No doubt, BUT when looking at the available reports I canNOT help to have the impression that Minister Gemayel acted in a careless way. Any prominent member of that most prominent family should guard himself as perfectly as possible. One problem is that the Gemayel family may retaliate as soon as they, I mean the family, locate the culprit, and that will then NOT be in the media.
 
mika
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:13 pm

I feel so bad for Lebanon lately, it seems like a such a beautiful and nice country with nice and open people if hezbollah could be eliminated from power and true democracy be put in place.

Granted i dont know everything about the situation but this is how i see it.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:33 pm

Quoting Mika (Reply 28):
hezbollah could be eliminated from power

Hizbullah is NOT in power.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:49 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 29):
Hizbullah is NOT in power

Despite your protestations to the contrary, Hezbollah are in power now. They have already usurped the power of the elected government by having their own army, conducting their own foreign policy, and even running all the municipal government functions in some areas.

These things by definition mean that Hezbollah are effectively in power in Lebanon.

You can proclaim differently until you are blue in the face, but that does not change the facts.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:12 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 30):
You can proclaim differently until you are blue in the face, but that does not change the facts.

The only power that counts in the region are the USA and their allied friends in Israel.
Wouldn't they have allowed the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah by implementing misery and injustice in Gaza ,Lebanese refugee Camps and the West-banks,those groups would never ever have managed to grow that strong.
We would have a more moderate Muslim political culture .
If you destroy the reasons for anger ,you destroy the roots for extremist parties and movements.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 30):
Despite your protestations to the contrary, Hezbollah are in power now. They have already usurped the power of the elected government by having their own army, conducting their own foreign policy, and even running all the municipal government functions in some areas. These things by definition mean that Hezbollah are effectively in power in Lebanon. You can proclaim differently until you are blue in the face, but that does not change the facts.

# Hizbullah has NOT usurped the power of the government
# they only run some municipal government functions in areas in the
southern border regions
# Hizbullah is NOT effectively in power in Lebanon
#### your distortion of reality does NOT change the facts !!
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:25 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 31):
their allied friends in Israel.

the Israelis for a very long time have been incredibly lenient about Hamas, regarding them as "useful idiots", until they moved up to become a REAL problem also to the Israelis. I just heard that the Israeli government has decided to continue with the "elimination" of "extreme and violent elements" . It is NOT the way things ought to be, but in their place I would do the same. The problem with Hamas at present is that their PA government in fact has administrative rule in all the Palestinian territories, whenever the elected mayors have an important role in local governing.
 
bravo45
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 27):
No doubt, BUT when looking at the available reports I canNOT help to have the impression that Minister Gemayel acted in a careless way. Any prominent member of that most prominent family should guard himself as perfectly as possible. One problem is that the Gemayel family may retaliate as soon as they, I mean the family, locate the culprit, and that will then NOT be in the media.

Yeah, I now think the Lebanese security forces, the police and the army should have stepped up security when the ministers resigned. I hope they do it now, I think the resignation/death of two more ministers is all that's needed to bring down the government, and who knows what will follow (God forbid) if that were to happens. About the family retaliating, I agree that's a grave concern, but the way his father and the rest of the family reacted was very dignifying and that preserves the unity of the Lebanon. I hope things improve from here on.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 31):
The only power that counts in the region are the USA and their allied friends in Israel.
Wouldn't they have allowed the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah by implementing misery and injustice in Gaza ,Lebanese refugee Camps and the West-banks,those groups would never ever have managed to grow that strong.
We would have a more moderate Muslim political culture .
If you destroy the reasons for anger ,you destroy the roots for extremist parties and movements.

 checkmark 

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
the Israelis for a very long time have been incredibly lenient about Hamas, regarding them as "useful idiots", until they moved up to become a REAL problem also to the Israelis.

 checkmark 

I was listening to an old debate that included Prof Norman Finkelstein and he mentioned how Israel is warming up to Hamas trying to use the fanatics to halt the peace process. I have no doubt Israel has used just about all the groups in the region to advance its agenda.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:21 pm

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 34):
I think the resignation/death of two more ministers

I do NOT know exactly what the Lebanese laws prescribe, but in view of the position of the Gemayel family I am perfectly sure that another Gemayel, most presumably the younger brother, will take over BOTH the seat in parliament and the ministry. The same would have been in case the murderers would have succeeded in case of Mr Pharaon.
-
 
mika
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:31 pm

All the best to Lebanon and the lebanese people, that's all i can say and wish for..regardless of who is in power or not.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting Mika (Reply 36):
regardless of who is in power or not.

it in spite of all negative b...sh... said is still the government, even if everybody can spit in the soup there.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 31):
The only power that counts in the region are the USA and their allied friends in Israel.
Wouldn't they have allowed the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah by implementing misery and injustice in Gaza ,Lebanese refugee Camps and the West-banks,those groups would never ever have managed to grow that strong.
We would have a more moderate Muslim political culture .
If you destroy the reasons for anger ,you destroy the roots for extremist parties and movements.

LOL I wondered how long until someone blamed this murder on the USA. All of those things you mentioned were more the fault of middle eastern arab governments and european governments than the USA.

The problem with the political culture in the Lebanon world is that they will not take responsibility for their own decisions. They refuse to make the difficult political decisions (such as disarming Hezbollah's army) for fear of starting a civil war. This further emboldens the Hezbollah leaders to usurp more power. as they know that the elected leaders will do nothing but talk.

There is no way for the USA to destroy the roots for the muslim extremists, as the extremists real target is not the USA, but the muslim moderates. The objective for the extremists is power first over their more moderate muslim brothers, and then over the non-muslims. The USA is just used as a strawman whiping boy by the radical imams and apologists.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 38):
They refuse to make the difficult political decisions (such as disarming Hezbollah's army)

do you really think that the disarming of Hizbullah would keep them off from bad actions ? beside the point that it is far far from proven that THEY did it. Just to give a catalogue of potential cuprits :
-
Nothing in fact is impossible. Here a shortlist of potential subjects you can chose from :
A) Syria (official condemnation, but who knows)
B) Hizbullah (possible but UN-proven)
C) General Lahoud (well possible, but not more)
D) his own party (somebody claimed it was members of his own party, eager to have a martyr but less eager about a mediocre son out of a leading family.)
E) Mr Aoun + the "Lebanese Forces" (to eliminate a potential rival)
F) somebody of the Frangieh clan, the old rivals of the Gemayel
G) somebody of the Hariri clan, the new rivals of the Gemayel
H) Mossad (for whatever)
I) CIA (for whatever)
J) KGB (for whatever)
K) "le Deuxieme Bureau" (for whatever)
L) the Italian Secret Service
M) the German Secret Service
<> do you need more ? "toujours a votre service"
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 39):
do you really think that the disarming of Hizbullah would keep them off from bad actions ?

Yes. If you take away their guns and rockets, they cannot attack other countries and they cannot intimidate their fellow Lebanese.

But instead, people like you would rather make up excuses for them.

Very sad.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 40):
guns and rockets,

the topic here is not guns (of the kind you refer to) or rockets, we speak about an assassination. And everybody can carry through an assassination.
 
rolfen
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RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 3):
Well, too early to point at any direction, but anyway, the Syrians are always on the list of presumed assassins in Lebanon, together with the Israelis.

Exactly, they both benefit of a civil war in lebanon and what these assination do is polarize lebanon and increase the internal tensions.

About the crime, I happened to be driving by the scene 20 minutes after and I didnt know what was happening... police and army and people rushing from everywhere like crazy... It was terrible... I parked and walked to it to enquire about what was happening... it was about 5-10 minutes from where I live.

The minister was driving a non-armored car... a kia! He was shot about 10 bullets at head level. At least he didnt suffer.

All I can do is pray that the people of lebanon finally get the peace that they deserve.

The young brother of the assasinated minister went to the same school then I. I think he's my age or one year younger. I will go present my condoleances to him tomorrow.

[Edited 2006-11-23 18:20:57]
rolf
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 42):
was about 5-10 minutes from where I live.

judging from one of your posts I thought you lived in the Hamra region, but reports about this assassination spoke about "eastern suburb of Beirut" ?

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 42):
driving a non-armored car.

why does a minister of the famous Gemayel family drive in a NON-armoured car ? I find this somewhat strange. I sincerely hope that the younger brother takes more care. FAR more care in fact !
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semsem
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:28 am

Hezbollah have said that they want the Jews in Israel to pack and leave. But they also want the Christians and secular Shia to also leave so that they can turn Lebanon into a Shia Islamist Iranian colony. So far their plan seems to working on schedule as many are in fact leaving. The Shia represent 40% of the population.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Semsem (Reply 44):
Hezbollah have said that they want

They want ALL non-Shi'ites and all NON-fundamentalist Shi'ites to leave, that is obvious

Quoting Semsem (Reply 44):
The Shia represent 40% of the population.

40% of the Lebanese ARE Shi'ites, true, but that does NOT mean that all Shi'ites are fundamentalists. There for instance is the Amal-Party, the larger Shi'ite party in Lebanon, which should not be forgotten. And many many Shi'ites who are NEITHER in favour of Hizbullah nor of Amal, as also Amal for them is too religious.

no, your thinking is too much wishful thinking !
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rolfen
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 am

RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 43):
judging from one of your posts I thought you lived in the Hamra region, but reports about this assassination spoke about "eastern suburb of Beirut" ?

:D
Where did you conclude that I live in Hamra ??
I live in the eastern suburbs.
rolf
 
rolfen
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 am

RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 43):
why does a minister of the famous Gemayel family drive in a NON-armoured car ? I find this somewhat strange.

I dont know! can a kia be armoured? I dont think so... it didnt look armoured to me... and if it was it must have been a very light armour because the bullet went through!
rolf
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 31):
The only power that counts in the region are the USA and their allied friends in Israel.
Wouldn't they have allowed the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah by implementing misery and injustice in Gaza ,Lebanese refugee Camps and the West-banks,those groups would never ever have managed to grow that strong.
We would have a more moderate Muslim political culture .

Instead of blaming the US and Israel as always without thinking, I would blame Europe first. Then blame the supposed Arab "friends" for not taking Palestinians into their vast lands to make a city or a state for them there (if land was really the problem)

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
This has all the earmarks of Syria/Iran/Hezbollah, the usual culprits in trying to destabalize the region. And the U.S. should be sending a stern warning to both to leave Lebanon alone.

Warning of what? The US can't help solve any more Arab messes in the region because they'll be seen as "invaders" and on "a campaign against the Muslims". The bored Imams of the world will incite Muslims to hate America, to launch even more terror attacks and then the world would blame the US even more... Then here in the USA, the liberals and Democrats like yourself and hippies will start criticizing the government.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 22):
This is what the Lebanese get for not disarming the Hezbollah terrorists. The same will continue until either the Hezbollah terrorists are disarmed and removed as a second government, or they depose the deomcratically elected government and impose islamic law across Lebanon.

In the mean time, certain apologists will continue to stall and insist that this is all a normal part of mid-east life, and that Lebanon will survive and rise again.

If you don't properly clean a wound, it will become infected, fester, and eventually become gangrenious.

 checkmark 

I will never understand why ALL of Lebanon (even the Muslims) don't demand that Hezbollah be out.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
difficult to say whether reflecting truth or just a cover-up, but Syria at least is distancing itself from that assassination

don't be naive.. even Osama Bin Laden distanced himself from being behind 9/11 initially.

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 34):
I was listening to an old debate that included Prof Norman Finkelstein and he imentioned how Israel is warming up to Hamas trying to use the fanatics to halt the peace process. I have no doubt Israel has used just about all the groups in the region to advance its agenda.

 up 
This is why you guys will never have peace in the region. Keep blaming Israel.

I have to say the lack of Lebanese users replies does surprise me. I guess they don't really care or.. is there another thread already?
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Pierre Gemayel Murdered.

Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:47 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 48):
I will never understand why ALL of Lebanon (even the Muslims) don't demand that Hezbollah be out.

You want to exterminate them all ?
Or send them into exile -to where ? They are Lebanese in their country.
Only way to deal with the issue of Hezbollah is a political one,in which they must be disarmed but under simultaneously implementing a massive peace-initiative in Israel/Gaza/Westbanks/Golan heights...
Syria must be pressured to participate constructively in those efforts and ratify normal relations with all it's neighbours.
This can be achived if US,Russia and Europe speak with one voice.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...

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