Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:20 am

And, since he's Muslim, what the hell is the big deal about this?

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a...93309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

The Congressman giving him crap for this is WAY out of line, in my estimation. If the man is not Christian, and the swearing-in can be done by any book the member wants, why is this even an issue.

Another sign of intolerance against Islam?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13356
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:30 am

British courts have long allowed the swearing of oaths to be done on whichever religious book anyone wants. Alternatively, for the non-religious amongst us, one can affirm.

Oaths and affirmation for witnesses:
http://www.cjsonline.gov.uk/defendan...ugh/the_trial/faqs/index.html#2641

Oaths and affirmation for jurors:
http://www.cjsonline.gov.uk/juror/wa...ugh/the_court/faqs/index.html#2278
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:32 am

I saw all of this coming when he won the Democratic nomination last summer.

Yes the religious-right shows there hypocrisy again.
Bring back the Concorde
 
RichardPrice
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting from the article:

He said Ellison, a convert from Catholicism, should swear on a Christian Bible -- which "America holds as its holiest book. … If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress."

So much for seperation of church and state ...
 
rolfen
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:09 am

They could make a compromise... he could swear with the coran under one hand and the bible under the other.
rolf
 
Nancy
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 1:54 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:09 am

Prager wants to get his name in the news. Nothing new. Maybe he can save Christmas instead.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11799
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:11 am

See, things like this are the reason why I sometimes get pretty scared about living in the US.

I'm extremely proud to live in the US, which is why I hate to see us take steps backwards with regards to tolerance and diversity.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:36 am

I am a Christian and I say give him a Koran. Give him a Webster's Dictionary if that is what he wants. I would actually prefer he not swear an oath using a text he has not belief in or regard for.
Proud OOTSK member
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:57 am

There is no law that says you have to take the oath with a bible or even invoke a higher Deity.

LBJ was sworn in using a missal (on board AF1), which is a book containing prayers and other devotional matter for celebrating Roman Catholic Mass throughout the year.


TR took the oath, without using the phrase "so help me god".

So what is the big friggen deal?
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
RichardPrice
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8):
So what is the big friggen deal?

Political capital for cheap outlay. Did you really expect it to be anything else?
 
helvknight
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:35 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Another sign of intolerance against Islam?

Partially, but mainly some asshole politician who wants to see his face on the news.

OK I'm not an American but he can swear in on a copy of Penthouse if he wants. If he is a muslim then the Koran is what he believes in and it is what he should use.
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:49 am

Such a "law" requiring swearing-in on a Bible would definitely be in violation of the Establishment clause. However, this is not a law - it is a tradition. It is not even a Congressional rule, which would also be unconstitutional.

This man has a right to be sworn in on the Koran, just as some lawmakers have had the to not be sworn in on a Bible. Also, some, including at least one of our early Presidents who was a Quaker, choose to affirm instead of swear an oath. This is perfectly legal and is allowed from the simplest civil duties (jury service) to the highest office in the land, the Presidency.
Up, up and away!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 11):
at least one of our early Presidents who was a Quaker

Richard Nixon was a Quaker too. The proper (PC) term is 'The Friends', not Quaker.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:24 am

Look at the poll results:

<Yes 55%
No 45%
Total Votes: 177,925
Note on Poll Results >>

<Yes 54%
No 41%
Not sure 5%
Total Votes: 178,025
>>

It's obvious this makes alot of folks uncomfortable.
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
Are you offended by Ellison's decision to take the oath of office on a Koran?
Yes 55%
No 45%
Total Votes: 177,925
Note on Poll Results

Should lawmakers, regardless of their faith, have to swear on the Bible?
Yes 54%
No 41%
Not sure 5%
Total Votes: 178,025

It's obvious this makes alot of folks uncomfortable.

It appears more obvious that it make a lot of folks bigoted, mindless lemmings who probably couldn't put together a coherent argument as to why they feel this way. So, they want a politician to swear an oath on a book that means nothing to him. How's that level of confidence working for you now? As absurd as this is, it's completely predictable, really.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:48 am

Coming from my home state, I think he should be able to swear in on the Koran. Hell, give him Playboy, and say "so help me Hugh" for all that matters.

Forcing the Bible on him is just dumb.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
RichardPrice
Posts: 4474
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:12 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):
It's obvious this makes alot of folks uncomfortable.

I couldnt care less if this makes people uncomfortable - the question they have to ask themselves is: is it acceptable within the Christian faith for a Christian to swear on another religions icons? If not, why is it acceptable for other religions to have to swear on a Christian icon?

Whatever happened to religious freedom and non persecution? By forcing a non Christian to swear on the Bible is tantamount to forcing that religion on people.
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 14):

Being uncomfortable doesn't violate anyone's constitutional rights, last time I checked.  Smile
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
Being uncomfortable doesn't violate anyone's constitutional rights, last time I checked.

Unfortunately, a lot of people act like it does. Let him take the oath on the Koran if he wants to.

Out of curiosity, did Lieberman take his oath on the Torah?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
Out of curiosity, did Lieberman take his oath on the Torah?

Yes, but they made him eat lobster with cream sauce on the same plate in return.  Wink

Actually, that's a great question. It might be difficult to get an accurate answer to that one.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:44 am

Prager just wanted to get his name out there for extra PR, but at this time the mainstream media is just ignorning him. Just trying to stir up trouble..

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
Being uncomfortable doesn't violate anyone's constitutional rights, last time I checked. Smile

 stirthepot 
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 20):
It might be difficult to get an accurate answer to that one.

Well, if it is, I think that says a lot.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:03 am

As long as he does his damn job and doesn't play uber-partisan politics, I don't care if he swaers in using a Stack of old spooge stained Hustler Magazines . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
Out of curiosity, did Lieberman take his oath on the Torah?

Not sure about Lieberman in particular, but as far as I know, most Jewish politicans take the oath on the Torah. Here is a photo of the new White House Chief-of-Staff being sworn in...The Hebrew letters are visible.



I imagine that someone like Prager would argue that the United States is a Judeo-Christian nation...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
blrsea
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearin

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:45 am

Why are some people even making this an issue? When a person takes oath on a book he respects and follows, it shows the seriousness he attaches to his oath. So, a person taking oath on Koran is doing just that, in the name of the God he believes in.

Now, a really messed up person might take oath on a book that he doesn't care, and do things contrary to the oath he took, for he will be under no moral compulsion as he doesn't believe in that book anyway  Smile
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:47 am

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 4):
They could make a compromise... he could swear with the coran under one hand and the bible under the other.

He shouldnt have to compromise. He is allowed to swear in on whatever he likes. I am a local city council member and take virtually an identical oath of office as he does. I didnt place my hand on any book. It was by my side with my ride hand raised.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:54 am

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. It is holy to him and that is what should matter. If you want a bible, the Torah or nothing, so be it.

For the religious right to make objections, how about make sure your house is 100% perfect before going after someone else's.

Be the bigger person and show tolerance of someone else's religion.

To be making the news is an even bigger offence.
You can't cure stupid
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 27):
For the religious right to make objections, how about make sure your house is 100% perfect before going after someone else's.

Now that is an argument I have to take issue with. Whose "house" is ever 100% perfect? To hold anyone to that standard is ridiculous and stupid. According to that arguement, you can't ever say someone is wrong unless you are right 100% of the time.

[Edited 2006-12-02 04:29:56]
Proud OOTSK member
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:22 pm

I'm not saying I disagree with him, but I'm also not saying that I agree with him, but has anyone bothered to wonder that the laws the US lives by, not to mention the religion that the United States was founded under, just happens to be Christianity?

The Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock with the hope of founding a nation with religious freedom, free from persecution because of your religion. However, from that point onward, the laws and order set forth were brought from Christianity and it's religion book, the Holy Bible.

I don't recall George Washington swearing in on a Koran, and I don't remember anyone in US political history asking if laws should be amended to compliment the religious laws founded by any other religion other than Christianity.

Simply, it was the religion that the US used to standardize and determine law and morality from.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearin

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 15):
It appears more obvious that it make a lot of folks bigoted, mindless lemmings who probably couldn't put together a coherent argument as to why they feel this way.



One dumbs**t conservative columnist saying something is sad but doesn't surprise me. On the other hand those poll results scare the crap out of me.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 30):
However, from that point onward, the laws and order set forth were brought from Christianity and it's religion book, the Holy Bible.

??

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 30):
I don't recall George Washington swearing in on a Koran,

Do you also recall that he owned slaves? Surely the point is that the practices of the nation evolve with time--we ideally should be working always to make the country more just, not more authoritarian. So what George Washington did is irrelevant. He was sworn in according to his beliefs. Others according to theirs.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 30):
and I don't remember anyone in US political history asking if laws should be amended to compliment the religious laws founded by any other religion other than Christianity.

Two things:

1.) no one is asking that a law be changed now. (See many of the posts above)

2.) Even if the law did require swearing in on a bible, and someone were asking for a change which allows more options, that change should be granted under the principle of religious freedom... (no one is asking Christians to swear on a Koran, why vice versa?)

[Edited 2006-12-02 04:40:50]
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
blrsea
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 30):
The Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock with the hope of founding a nation with religious freedom, free from persecution because of your religion.



Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 30):
I don't recall George Washington swearing in on a Koran, and I don't remember anyone in US political history asking if laws should be amended to compliment the religious laws founded by any other religion other than Christianity.

Aren't the two statements contradictory? If I read you right, the original settlers escaped prosecution for their religion, and now their religion should be the religion of state and should discriminate against people of other religions?
 
CO7e7
Posts: 2686
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:39 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 30):
I don't recall George Washington swearing in on a Koran

That's because he wasn't a muslim! Big grin
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:17 pm

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 32):
Aren't the two statements contradictory? If I read you right, the original settlers escaped prosecution for their religion, and now their religion should be the religion of state and should discriminate against people of other religions?

No, the point of religious freedom is that you are free to worship whatever religion you choose without persecution. However, this country was founded on the views expressed by the religion of the founding fathers, Christianity. That is the only reason you are to swear in on the Holy Bible. By doing so, you are not saying you worship whatever religion it belongs to. You are simply acknowledging that the ideals expressed by the religion in that book were the ones that the United States has founded its laws and morals. Nothing more, nothing less.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 31):
Do you also recall that he owned slaves?

Nothing in the Bible said that owning slaves was a sin.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 31):
He was sworn in according to his beliefs. Others according to theirs.

No he wasn't. He was sworn in to acknowledge that any laws that were in order for this fledgling nation, were made under guidance of Christianity. Whether he agreed with those laws, or even Christianity, was irrelevant.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 29):
Whose "house" is ever 100% perfect?

That's just it. No one's house is. There is no argument there.

Your house than anyone else's. Don't judge someone on how they practise. Your way is no better or more right than someone else. We are all equal.

Unless, of course, you are the religious right and your way is, apparently, the only way.
You can't cure stupid
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Yes the religious-right shows there hypocrisy again.

As opposed to the pure-white virtue of the left  angel  .

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 15):
mindless lemmings who probably couldn't put together a coherent argument as to why they feel this way.

Probably true. In Acts, when Paul witnessed to the Ephesians, he didn't decry their goddess, Diana, to which even the townclerk confessed. He just showed them that Christ is superior. He left them to make their own call. It's individual choice for anyone to believe in what they do. If Christians want to have the Bible recognized as the superior text, then there's other ways to do it than to start throwing up walls like this.

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 7):
I would actually prefer he not swear an oath using a text he has not belief in or regard for.

 checkmark 

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 34):
Quoting N229NW (Reply 31):
Do you also recall that he owned slaves?

Nothing in the Bible said that owning slaves was a sin.

It sure does hint at it, though, saying in the OT that it cheapens a man's soul.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 35):
Your house than anyone else's. Don't judge someone on how they practise. Your way is no better or more right than someone else. We are all equal.

Perhaps, but one need not be perfect to say if something is right or wrong.
Example. I am not perfect. I think murder and child molestation is wrong. I am unable to pass such a judgement because of my imperfection? Of course not. Therefore we must be able to make judgements despite our human imperfections. To make judgements requires standards to judge by. If we are unable to have any sort of standard due to our human imperfections, then, ultimately, rule of law is abolished.

Now on this particular, you and I agree, because we look at the standard and come to a similar judgement, despite our disparate and flawed backgrounds.
Proud OOTSK member
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:59 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 30):
I'm not saying I disagree with him, but I'm also not saying that I agree with him, but has anyone bothered to wonder that the laws the US lives by, not to mention the religion that the United States was founded under, just happens to be Christianity?

Is there an established state religion? If not... then why shouldn't he be allowed to swear on the Quran?

Then if the US is a Christian state, why allow Jewish to swear on the Torah? There should be some consistency... please...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 37):
So they get an extremely small dose of their own medicine and I'm supposed to feel guilty and sorry?

Hah.

It is not Islam that you have an issue with here, it is a radical faction of Islam. Honestly, I thought you were smarter than that.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 40):
It is not Islam that you have an issue with here, it is a radical faction of Islam.

Yep, although the perceptions continue to differ regarding what constitutes "radical Islam", and how much "radical Islam" makes up of Islam itself.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 40):
Honestly, I thought you were smarter than that.

Get over it. I'm not shedding any tears over this little predicament. If we're going to whine and moan about intolerance, there are countless more subjects that fit the puzzle entirely better than the United States Government.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:29 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8):
So what is the big friggen deal?



Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):
Political capital for cheap outlay. Did you really expect it to be anything else?

From a Muslim fundamentalist with communist leanings? Of course not.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 18):
Being uncomfortable doesn't violate anyone's constitutional rights, last time I checked.

The constitution as interpreted by the UCLA states clearly that you have a right to not be offended by anyone unless you're a white Christian man in which case you have no rights at all.
I wish I were flying
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:22 pm

"He should not be allowed to do so," Prager wrote, "not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American culture."


Just say it Prager, you hate [insert word for cloth]heads. Or we'll wait till you slip.

He said Ellison, a convert from Catholicism, should swear on a Christian Bible -- which "America holds as its holiest book. ... If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress."

And America holds the Constitution holier than the Christian bible. Contrary to what the uber Right might make some believe...

Is Prager capable of understanding that?

Sorry bubba.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4794
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:03 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 42):
From a Muslim fundamentalist with communist leanings?

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

A Muslim fundamentalist??? Communist leanings???

So because he wants to swear in on the Koran he's suddenly a Muslim fundamentalist? Does that mean that everyone swearing in on the Bible is suddenly a Christian fundamentalist? What a joke  Yeah sure

And communist leanings? Oh never mind, you're the one who repeatedly called Kerry a communist too, guess that speaks volumes...
 
TransIsland
Posts: 1826
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:22 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:46 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 42):
The constitution as interpreted by the UCLA states clearly that you have a right to not be offended by anyone unless you're a white Christian man in which case you have no rights at all.

The University of California, Los Angeles, is the ultimate authority when it comes to interpreting the constitution? I didn't know that.

However, I believe that the main qualification to serve in Congress is to get ELECTED. I believe the guy got elected. PERIOD.
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearin

Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 24):
I imagine that someone like Prager would argue that the United States is a Judeo-Christian nation...

No "imagining" about it...Prager has stated this.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
The Congressman giving him crap for this is WAY out of line,



Quoting Helvknight (Reply 10):
Partially, but mainly some asshole politician who wants to see his face on the news.

To be clear, Prager (the one causing the fuss) is NOT a congressman or politician. He is a radio host, author and columnist. He is Jewish and speaks often on religious matters.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 6):
See, things like this are the reason why I sometimes get pretty scared about living in the US.

Calm down. This is about one media figure causing a fuss.

My "oath" of choice would be on a big fat slab of Belgian chocolate with almonds!  yes 
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 45):
Calm down. This is about one media figure causing a fuss.

As I said above, what scares me are the poll results, more than some conservative pundit (predictably) being an idiot.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 45):
My "oath" of choice would be on a big fat slab of Belgian chocolate with almonds!

NOW we're talking...but no almonds please--hazelnut praline is fine, or just straight up.  wink 
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting Basas (Reply 13):
the poll results:
<
Yes 55%
No 45%
Total Votes: 177,925
<
Yes 54%
No 41%
Not sure 5%
Total Votes: 178,025
>>

-
This is absolutely devastating, and rather saddening ! I would never have expected the domination of such extremist positions.  crying  worried 
-

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
Lieberman take his oath on the Torah?

he only had to ask for a Bible with only the OLD testament, and NOT the "new" one
-

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 33):
founded on the views

founded ON THE VIEWS, of course, and the VIEWS were Christian, but do you want to say that Christianity is part of the consitution of the USA ?
-
-
And just an idea. What will happen if a Buddhist gets into Congress and wants to swear on the scripts of Buddha ? or a Zoroastrian who wants to swear on the scripts of Zarathustra ?  stirthepot  it is not absurd at all, but in reality easily possible
-
 
blrsea
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 33):
That is the only reason you are to swear in on the Holy Bible. By doing so, you are not saying you worship whatever religion it belongs to. You are simply acknowledging that the ideals expressed by the religion in that book were the ones that the United States has founded its laws and morals. Nothing more, nothing less.

Does the US constitution mention anywhere that its ideals were borrowed from the bible? Does it state anywhere in the constitution that Bible was their guiding light? So far, it has been a practice because almost all elected representatives/senators were predominantly of the christian faith. Now that the country is more multi-cultural, it is natural for people from other religions to get elected.

Article VI of the constitution has this to say

Quote:
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.



And I don't see any here mention that oath or affirmation needs to be taken on the bible.

And ideas are borrowed from many countries. Some countries have elements of their constitution which were inspired by US constitution, and some inspired by the UK model. Does it mean that politicians of those countries have to swear on US/UK constitution?

And are the ideals expressed by US constitution the so unique to Bible?
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting N229NW (Reply 46):
As I said above, what scares me are the poll results, more than some conservative pundit (predictably) being an idiot.

And in 2002, Le Pen got a majority vote in one election. Does that mean people should be scared to live in France?

These poll results don't mean anything. Take them with a grain of salt.
 
bravo45
Posts: 2072
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2001 5:34 pm

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:58 am

As much as I, by experience whole heartedly say that the US in general is a very tolerant society, I think the dirty politics and the state of world affairs as viewed from the US translate in such a way that makes the US not ready for a Muslim congressman just yet.
Having said that I usually don't think highly for a 'First' when it comes to an elected women, or any other minority, I think this guy has won my admiration for only bearing all that he had to go through: From the dirty campaign to CNN's Glenn Beck to this. I don't think it'll be over for him even when this phase is behind him. I wonder how much can he take.

P.S I don't think issues like these are hot topics even in extreme countries, but like I said, I don't think the US is ready for this right now. I reach this conclusion based on this individual's case alone. After all he is the first Muslim who got elected. I wonder if he is the first Muslim who ever ran for the office. I doubt that, but then again I think this election was full of dirty politics.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: New Member Of Congress Wants Koran For Swearing-In

Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 49):
Le Pen got a majority vote in one election.

It simply was NOT a majority. He got more votes than any of the other dozen candidates, but NOT a majority at all.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: OA412, Teganuma, Tugger and 15 guests