Falcon84
Topic Author
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Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:22 am

Inside this story about a radio talk show host who, to spur debate, said Muslims should be tatooed to identify them, are results of polls done earlier in the year, that clearly shows that many American want Muslims identified much in a way Jews were in Nazi Germany in the 1930's, which just chills me to the bone.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a...lim-sentiment/20061203153809990001

If anyone on here really, truely wants such a form if identification for those who practice Islam, then they're welcome to leave our borders for good-immediately-as far as I'm concerned.

I think this government owes it to those Americans who peacefuly practice the Islamic faith to start an education program to inform the American people that not everyone who is Muslim is a terrorists. But then again, it was the fear-mongering and paranoia of this administration, in my view, that has exacerbated this "Kristallnacht" mentality among many Americans.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Daleaholic
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Large Minority? I smell contradiction  Silly
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
I think this government owes it to those Americans who peacefuly practice the Islamic faith to start an education program to inform the American people that not everyone who is Muslim is a terrorists.

Of course it would be left up to the government to do such a thing... as those of the muslim faith appear completely unwilling to do so.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
cosec59
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 1):
Large Minority? I smell contradiction

49% is a large minority!
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:39 am

Should we all start sewing emblems of our relevant faiths onto our outermost garments as well?
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
TransIsland
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 1):
large Minority? I smell contradiction

You do? I suggest either reading the linked article or getting your nose checked. 39% of the people polled supported the idea. While that is not a majority, it's certainly a "large minority," as opposed to a "small minority."

Example: Only a small minority of participants in Airbus vs. Boeing discussions on a.net actually know what they talking about.  Wink
I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
 
cfalk
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:42 am

A poll carried out by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an advocacy group, found that for one in three Americans, the word Islam triggers negative connotations such as "war," "hatred" and "terrorist."

Rather than bitching and moaning about how racist and intolerant America is against the poor innocent Muslims, I would suggest that Muslims examine why their faith has become associated with these negatives. The incident last week with the 5 imams on the plane just proved once again how the Islamic world is terribly and tragically reluctant to self-examination.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Mir
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:02 am

The AOL poll, while admittedly not scientific, is interesting:

Do you think Muslims in the U.S. should carry special identification?
No 62%
Yes 38%
Total Votes: 114,014

Do you think most U.S. Muslims sympathize with al-Qaida?
No 54%
Yes 46%
Total Votes: 114,693

What kind of idiots would say yes to both those questions?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2):
Of course it would be left up to the government to do such a thing... as those of the muslim faith appear completely unwilling to do so.

Is it not the responsibility of the government to protect its citizens?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MDorBust
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:08 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Is it not the responsibility of the government to protect its citizens?

Protect yes. Uphold their reputations and names? No.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
halls120
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
I think this government owes it to those Americans who peacefuly practice the Islamic faith to start an education program to inform the American people that not everyone who is Muslim is a terrorists.

IIRC, immediately after the 9/11 attack President Bush made it a point to separate the minority of Islamic extremists from the vast majority of peaceful followers of Islam.

The suggestion put forth by the radio host is abhorrent. That said, as long as so many conflicts around the world continue to be fueled by religious hatred, it isn't surprising that an sizable audience for such nonsense exists.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 5):

Example: Only a small minority of participants in Airbus vs. Boeing discussions on a.net actually know what they talking about. Ê

 rotfl 

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
Rather than bitching and moaning about how racist and intolerant America is against the poor innocent Muslims, I would suggest that Muslims examine why their faith has become associated with these negatives. The incident last week with the 5 imams on the plane just proved once again how the Islamic world is terribly and tragically reluctant to self-examination.

 checkmark 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):
The suggestion put forth by the radio host is abhorrent.

And he agrees with you, as you see later in the article when he said he can't believe anyone would take seriously what he suggested-and that he only did so to see what the response would be.

It does show a large dose of fear, paranoia and ignorance still reigns in this nation, a full 5 years after 9/11, which is shameful.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
cairo
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:23 am

The Americans who want Muslims ID'd certainly have their priorities in order.

Americans killed by Muslims in America over the last 5 years: <50.
Americans killed by non-Islamic Americans on the streets of Amierca over the last 5 years: 100,000+.

Yes, some crazy Muslims were responsible for 9/11, But at some point a rational, unemotional review of the real killers in American society is in order and a reasonable priority of resource re-allocation deserved.

Cairo
 
MDorBust
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting Cairo (Reply 11):
Americans killed by Muslims in America over the last 5 years: <50.
Americans killed by non-Islamic Americans on the streets of Amierca over the last 5 years: 100,000+.

Okay. If we are going to talk criminal demographics Cairo, why don't you give us a religious breakdown of the people who committed the murders in line two?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:28 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 12):
why don't you give us a religious breakdown of the people who committed the murders in line two?

I do NOT know whether your country has statistics in this regard, but I would expect it to be 95%-PLUS to be culprits of Christian denominations. But before you investigate into this, please be aware that "Catholic" does NOT mean Mexican, as people of Irish, Italian or Polish origins tend to be Catholics also !
-
 
D L X
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
Rather than bitching and moaning about how racist and intolerant America is against the poor innocent Muslims, I would suggest that Muslims examine why their faith has become associated with these negatives. The incident last week with the 5 imams on the plane just proved once again how the Islamic world is terribly and tragically reluctant to self-examination.

Come on man. 1) Is it your responsibility to cheerlead for people that look like you? No, it's not. It's a shame that you require it of others. 2) Despite the fact that they shouldn't be required to cheerlead for their ethinicity, they do it anyway. The problem is, few people pay attention.

There was a poster in my church that said that if you do something good, 1 person will remember, but if you do something bad, 10 people will remember. How true these words ring: you'll remember the "bad" Muslims that do something wrong, but you won't even notice the "good" Muslims that denounce the bad ones.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):
IIRC, immediately after the 9/11 attack President Bush made it a point to separate the minority of Islamic extremists from the vast majority of peaceful followers of Islam.

Yeah... right before he declared that we were going on a "crusade."  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure

NOT how you want to start a relationship with the Muslim world.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:00 pm

Terrorists should be IDed.

Problem? Who are they?

There in lies the problem. They come in all shades and backgrounds.
You can't cure stupid
 
NWA742
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
Rather than bitching and moaning about how racist and intolerant America is against the poor innocent Muslims, I would suggest that Muslims examine why their faith has become associated with these negatives.

 checkmark 

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
I think this government owes it to those Americans who peacefully practice the Islamic faith to start an education program to inform the American people that not everyone who is Muslim is a terrorists.

Ridiculous, Falcon. If Muslims want a better image than the one that they've painted, it is entirely up to them to make the effort. The US government owes squat when it comes to that responsibility.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
But then again, it was the fear-mongering and paranoia of this administration, in my view, that has exacerbated this "Kristallnacht" mentality among many Americans.

Right, if all else fails, blame it on Bush. Muslims are not totally responsible for what other people think of them. Got it.

Hell even if that nonsense were true, would it be all that surprising, considering how shortsighted most Americans prove themselves to be over time? Look at the war in Iraq - how many people were for it, who ignored those who said that we were in for the long run and that people will die, and are now against it for those very reasons.

It's embarrassing to anyone with half a brain.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
D L X
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 16):
Ridiculous, Falcon. If Muslims want a better image than the one that they've painted, it is entirely up to them to make the effort.

bullfuckingshit, NWA742. This is a country that does not judge on the basis of color or ethnicity, remember?

People who say this speak from the laziness of not wanting to expend the effort to determine friend from foe. (Yet they do it for their ingroup all the time.)
 
NWA742
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
bullfuckingshit, NWA742

 cry 

Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
This is a country that does not judge on the basis of color or ethnicity, remember?

Absolutely, as a politically correct and modern society, that must ring true.

However, no matter what any country claims regarding race, nothing changes the natural human instinct to judge things based on their senses - including sight sound. People tend to judge upon what they see and hear every day. The reasons that Muslims are often associated with terrorism is because they are responsible for the vast majority of it today. I'm not saying all of them are terrorists, most aren't. But that doesn't change the previously mentioned fact. It is their fault, it is the image that they have painted of themselves.

The US Government is not responsible, in any goddamn way, for that.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
cfalk
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
This is a country that does not judge on the basis of color or ethnicity, remember?

How about behaviour?
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 16):
Ridiculous, Falcon. If Muslims want a better image than the one that they've painted, it is entirely up to them to make the effort. The US government owes squat when it comes to that responsibility.

-
You contradict yourselves. You say "than the one that they have painted". THE Muslims did NOT paint a bad image. And to improve the image damaged by some culprits is NOT done overnight. In Switzerland, in the past few years, many youngsters of "ex-Yugoslav" origin were caught as "speeders" and even involved in bad accidents. Now, ALL ex-Yugoslavs have the image to be speeders and careless drivers. What should the normal folks of that origin do now ? Drive with 23 kms per hour ? Or what exactly ? You can be a terrorist, but you canNOT be a NON-terrorist, you just can be somebody normal. And by being normal you canNOT cancel out the effect of the terrorists.
-
I remember that in mid 2001 I had the impression that the Arab World in the USA had gained in reputation, Arab countries and airlines were doing public relations for inbound tourism from the USA. All that was destroyed by one single stroke within a day by elQaeda. You can see now that things are slowly, very slowly in fact, moving back to normal. 5/FIVE years were lost. No, repairs in such things are not done overnight.
-

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 16):
Hell even if that nonsense were true, would it be all that surprising, considering how shortsighted most Americans prove themselves to be over time? Look at the war in Iraq - how many people were for it, who ignored those who said that we were in for the long run and that people will die, and are now against it for those very reasons.

-
What I detest is that kind of indirect self-flagellation. Persons and people make mistakes, partial ones and full ones. Happens. But what is needed are SOLUTIONS and the finding of way-outs. If GWB finds a more or less decent way-out in case of Iraq, I am, in spite of my dis-like for that gentleman, ready to praise him for whatever success he may have. The idea that 2/two full years should go lost, waiting for his successor, is abhorrent for me. To speak about "half-brains" just because some mistakes were made and a disaster occurred is a bad approach.
-

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 18):
The reasons that Muslims are often associated with terrorism is because they are responsible for the vast majority of it today.

-
And here you go again. It was NOT "they", even if Muslims WERE/ARE involved in lots of this shit-business. "THEY" canNOT do very much in the way of an instant-coffee. To correct such matters takes a long time.
-

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 18):
But that doesn't change the previously mentioned fact. It is their fault, it is the image that they have painted of themselves.

-
And again, it is NOT "their" fault, it quite to the contrary is something most Muslims had no influence upon. And "they" did NOT paint the image YOU paint. They painted an image of tolerant and open-minded peaceful and law-abiding people.
-
May I kindly remind you that Osama Bin Laden never won any elections anywhere ? Quite in contrast to the person you do NOT want to be blamed, apparently because you love that dull gentleman.
-
 
fspilot747
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:16 pm

AOL is not staffed by professional pollsters. Anyone stupid enough with enough time on their hands to pay for and use AOL is not representative of the U.S. population.

I wouldn't call this a large minority (is that an oxymoron?), though I must say, I'm not surprised 38% of those who participated in the poll agreed with ID badges.

History never taught us anything.

Actually, history never taught Republicans and American Conservatives anything.
 
NWA742
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:29 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
THE Muslims did NOT paint a bad image



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
And again, it is NOT "their" fault, it quite to the contrary is something most Muslims had no influence upon.

And this is one of the most common examples of flawed logic regarding this subject.

While most of them may not have any influence or participation in the actions of terrorists, they refuse to stand up as a people and denounce the epidemic of extremists who fight in their name and religion! They refuse to straighten up as a people, modernize, and get with the modern world. THAT IS THEIR FAULT! No more bullshit excuses.

If they actually, as a people, expressed the same outrage over terrorism as they do over a fucking cartoon, maybe they would have a better image, no?

And still, why should the US Government be paying for these mistakes?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
Persons and people make mistakes, partial ones and full ones.

That has shit to do with shortsightedness.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
fspilot747
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 22):
While most of them may not have any influence or participation in the actions of terrorists, they refuse to stand up as a people and denounce the epidemic of extremists who fight in their name and religion! They refuse to straighten up as a people, modernize, and get with the modern world. THAT IS THEIR FAULT! No more bullshit excuses.

What do you expect them to do? They don't even see the terrorists as one of them. Beyond that, they have stood up all over the world to denounce terrorism. They just haven't knocked on your door with flowers to do it.

Give me one example: what would you like to see from the muslim community for you to be satisfied? A blowjob?

Christ. I can't believe I live in a day and age when people are still as backwards as this.
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:46 pm

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 23):
Christ. I can't believe I live in a day and age when people are still as backwards as this.

He is not backwards actually, just a ignorant guy who has probably not left the US in a very long time thus making it difficult for him to understand that the world does not run on his values. Poor guy.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
NWA742
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:49 pm

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 23):
What do you expect them to do?

Condemning, as a people (not group leaders), those who murder and kill in their name and religion.

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 23):
They don't even see the terrorists as one of them

That hardly matters. I don't see myself as a liberal but I'm always ready to condemn liberal ideology because I disagree with many parts of it. If Muslims disagreed with the actions of those who murder in their name, why aren't they making it known?

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 23):
Beyond that, they have stood up all over the world to denounce terrorism.

You must be mistaken. The last wide condemnation out of them was over a cartoon, and it was obvious to everyone what they felt. Why can't they give the same condemnation of terrorism? Sure speaks volumes.

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 23):
Christ. I can't believe I live in a day and age when people are still as backwards as this.

Yes, anyone who disagrees with your apologetic crap is ass backwards. I'll be sure to jot that down.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:10 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 22):
While most of them may not have any influence or participation in the actions of terrorists, they refuse to stand up as a people and denounce the epidemic of extremists who fight in their name and religion! They refuse to straighten up as a people, modernize, and get with the modern world. THAT IS THEIR FAULT! No more bullshit excuses.

-
again, THEY actually DO stand up against the extremists and DO modernize and DO get with the modern world. Yes, to be with the modern world, to be modernizing, to be standing up against the extremists, THAT is possibly the fault of Muslims for the fundamentalists
-

[Edited 2006-12-04 08:20:14]
 
lehpron
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:51 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Would that be the foreign ones or those born here? How do they tell the difference without asking them?

See I dont mind if foreigners get tags, I do mind when someone is too lazy to inform themselves (I'm not anything islamic/arabic/musliumic etc) and asks if I'm taged.

I'd show them my DL and be on my way.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
halls120
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 14):
but you won't even notice the "good" Muslims that denounce the bad ones.

Maybe because they number of "good" muslims denouncing the terrorists in their midst are and have been so small.

Other muslims have pointed this out.

Quote:
Failure to Denounce Terrorism Undermines Arab/Muslim Groups
June 17, 2004
By Ray Hanania

Most Arab and Muslim organizations are genuinely concerned with improving the well-being of their community while advocating justice and fairness in the Middle East.

Many are conflicted when it comes to Hamas, a terrorist organization that has hijacked the Palestinian cause, which is not a terrorist cause at all.

In the Middle East, it is easy for religious fanatics to hijack great causes. They exploit the highly charged emotions of people by pointing to an American foreign policy driven by injustice and special interests.

Yet as unjust as American foreign policy may be, it does not excuse silence on Hamas or the need to speak out against those leaders in Arab and Muslim-American organizations who acquiesce in Hamas policies.

In fact, the silence is immoral.

and look at the stance CAIR takes:

Quote:
CAIR Head Refuses to Denounce Terrorists
By Rachel Neuwirth
ChronWatch | August 20, 2003


In late July, I contacted Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman and director of communication at the Council of American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). When he returned my call, he presented his point of view about the Arab-Israeli conflict and militant Islam. When I reminded him about CAIR's record of openly supporting Hamas, Hizbullah, and other organizations deemed by the government to be terrorists, he replied by telling me that "CAIR does not support these groups publicly."

So silence on terrorist groups like Hamas and Hizbollah is OK?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 18):
People tend to judge upon what they see and hear every day. The reasons that Muslims are often associated with terrorism is because they are responsible for the vast majority of it today. I'm not saying all of them are terrorists, most aren't. But that doesn't change the previously mentioned fact. It is their fault, it is the image that they have painted of themselves

 checkmark 

It's like the US 50 years ago. If you were white and came from the south, you were automatically considered to be a redneck racist, because that was the way most white southerners behaved.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 20):
And again, it is NOT "their" fault, it quite to the contrary is something most Muslims had no influence upon. And "they" did NOT paint the image YOU paint. They painted an image of tolerant and open-minded peaceful and law-abiding people.

But the peace loving image is marred by the failure to confront the muslims that openly advocate violence.

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 23):
What do you expect them to do? They don't even see the terrorists as one of them. Beyond that, they have stood up all over the world to denounce terrorism.

I'll believe that the majority of peace loving muslims are against terrorism when I see groups like CAIR openly denounce Hamas and Hizbollah. While they have issued a fatwa against terrorism in general, they refuse to condemn specific groups that have openly embraced terrorism as a means to accomplish their objectives
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
MDorBust
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
I do NOT know whether your country has statistics in this regard,

Nor do I. Personally I've never seen it. But, Cairo seems to know. Either that or he completely made up his numbers and also has no clue what number of offenders belong to which religion.

BTW: Having personally interviewed a great many offenders for my degree, I would say that "not practicing" is of much greater prevalence in prison than Christian.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 28):
And again, it is NOT "their" fault, it quite to the contrary is something most Muslims had no influence upon. And "they" did NOT paint the image YOU paint. They painted an image of tolerant and open-minded peaceful and law-abiding people.
--
But the peace loving image is marred by the failure to confront the muslims that openly advocate violence.

-
A) the image got marred by the terrorists
B) the terrorists WERE and ARE confronted in the Arab World
C) it was the USA which gave political asylum to terrorists wanted to be extradited by Algeria, Egypt and Jordan. Even one of the murderers of President Sadat got political asylum in the USA
-
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 22):

Maybe what you say is true, NWA. But do you think they should be branded, as the Jews were by the Nazi's?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
halls120
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
B) the terrorists WERE and ARE confronted in the Arab World

Oh, really? By Syria?  rotfl 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
NWA742
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 31):
Maybe what you say is true, NWA. But do you think they should be branded, as the Jews were by the Nazi's?

Certainly not, Falcon - it would only spark outrage and violence from Muslims, and increase racial tensions even further. Nothing good could come out of it whatsoever.

And remember, an AOL poll? I don't think it's too much to be concerned about. They are probably just in it for the story, as always. Never has there been any wide support or action taken for something like this, and hopefully there never will be.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
B) the terrorists WERE and ARE confronted in the Arab World

 rotfl 

With what? A monthly one sentence document from "leaders" of Muslims communities letting us know that terrorism is not good? Perhaps, peaceful Muslims need to stop being so peaceful when it comes to those murder, torture, and rape in their name and in their religion.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Superfly
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:36 am

This poll is disgusting and its scary that more than one third of America feels that way.

Keep in mind, many Muslims already wear headgear that identifies themselves as Muslims. So forcing them to have tattoos is really stupid.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 32):
B) the terrorists WERE and ARE confronted in the Arab World

Oh, really? By Syria? rotfl

By countries like Morocco, ALGERIA, Tunisia, EGYPT, Syria and Jordan. Syria even used artillery and airforce to eliminate a terrorist stronghold near Hama. And in Algeria, President Liamine Zeroual used police, army, air-force and "special services" in the fight against the terrorists. In Egypt, over the past 3 decades, hundreds of terrorists were brought to justice with many of them, upon death sentences, executed. Present-day King Abdullah bin Hussein for many years was the commander of the anti-terrorism-force of the Kingdom.
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Quoting NWA742 (Reply 33):
) the terrorists WERE and ARE confronted in the Arab World
--------------------------
rotfl
------------------------------
With what? A monthly one sentence document from "leaders" of Muslims communities letting us know that terrorism is not good? Perhaps, peaceful Muslims need to stop being so peaceful when it comes to those murder, torture, and rape in their name and in their religion.

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With police and armed forces. No documents to the USA but police action and/or military action.
-
 
halls120
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 35):
By countries like Morocco, ALGERIA, Tunisia, EGYPT, Syria and Jordan.

too bad they aren't doing anything to rein in Hamas and Hezbollah. who are also terrorists, of course.
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mandala499
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Inside this story about a radio talk show host who, to spur debate, said Muslims should be tatooed to identify them, are results of polls done earlier in the year, that clearly shows that many American want Muslims identified much in a way Jews were in Nazi Germany in the 1930's, which just chills me to the bone.

Well, I am told that it is forbidden for Muslims to be tattooed...  Smile

Mandala499
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prosa
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
The incident last week with the 5 imams on the plane just proved once again how the Islamic world is terribly and tragically reluctant to self-examination.

What does that incident show about Islamic self-examination? However suspicious their actions might've seemed at the time, the fact remains that the imams were unarmed and not part of any hijacking terror plot.
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 36):
too bad they aren't doing anything to rein in Hamas and Hezbollah. who are also terrorists, of course.

I explained it before. I admit that BOTH were, and in case of Hamas still are, involved in terrorist activities, BUT they at the same time are legal political parties. Hizbullah since August has no longer done any terrorist actions anyway, the are just a pesky plague otherwise. Some of the worst elements of Hamas have been taken care of by the Israelis. For comparison, please study the "legal parties" of ETA and IRA. Neither Brits nor Spaniards have much illusions about that legality-business, but you canNOT just "rein in" legal political parties.
 
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:36 am

"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 28):
I'll believe that the majority of peace loving muslims are against terrorism when I see groups like CAIR openly denounce Hamas and Hizbollah. While they have issued a fatwa against terrorism in general, they refuse to condemn specific groups that have openly embraced terrorism as a means to accomplish their objectives

Hamas an Hizbollah are not America's problem, which is why the Council on American Islamic Relations is not so eager to discuss it. Had Hamas and Hizbollah flown planes into our towers, the story would be different. Israel has made this sh*t America's problem. Lets not forget that Hamas and Hizbollah are not Al Qaeda. If you want muslims to denounce Hamas and Hizbollah's actions in the form of suicide bombings and kidnappings, go read about why it takes place in the first place. Then, go talk to any local Lebanese people, and chances are, they will go on a rant about Hizbollah. I've known a few lebanese people at my university who are "sick and tired of their shit." Hamas is not as favored as you would think because Arabs know that a one state solution is just not going to happen.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 25):
Condemning, as a people (not group leaders), those who murder and kill in their name and religion.

Again, tell me what will satisfy you. Should every muslim in the world join hands in Kansas and sing aloud Kumbayah and chant "death to terrorists!" all in one voice with vibrato? Seriously, I just want to know what you mean by "they all need to condemn terrorism as a people." HOW do they need to do that to match your standards?

They really have tried. FOX news just doesn't broadcast it. I've seen muslims come on TV to denounce terrorism and broadcast their shame. I have seen muslim groups on my campus hold vigils for those killed. Including American soldiers killed in Iraq.

I allow myself to see their disgust and their shame which is why I don't hate muslims. If I were as cynical as you, I'd hate them, too. But I just know too many muslims who are decent citizens.
 
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 33):
Certainly not, Falcon - it would only spark outrage and violence from Muslims, and increase racial tensions even further. Nothing good could come out of it whatsoever.

Yes, the Islmaic world would be rightly pissed at that. But is that THE ONLY reason you wouldn't do it? Is there no moral outrage at the very concept of such a thing? All I hear is you being worried about the Islamic reaction-what about reaction from us here in the states?
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solnabo
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:16 am

A question:

How many of you americans have been outside your country? Come to Europe and have a holiday and discover this beautiful continent.

When I read many commments here about muslims it´s really scary how intolerant americans are. You need a change of view if it´s only for 2 weeks.

Micke//   

[Edited 2006-12-04 21:20:37]
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 25):
Condemning, as a people (not group leaders), those who murder and kill in their name and religion.

NWA, how would you even know whether muslims "as a people" condemn those who murder and kill in their name and religion? Do you go door to door in Muslim neighborhoods asking people? Do you hang out with a lot of Muslims at work or at the bar or otherwise on a day-to-day basis so that you can ask them?

For that matter, do American Christians condemn "as a people (not group leaders)" the American terrorists calling themselves Christians who bomb abortion clinics in the name of their religion, or the Oklahoma City Federal Building for that matter?



-DrDeke
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
This poll is disgusting and its scary that more than one third of America feels that way.

The poll is just that. A poll. A very small (read: a few people) of participants responded to questions. It is not a reflection of America as a whole, but a reflection of the people that responded. That reflection cannot be spread to the rest of the US population.

A more accurate poll would be where ALL Americans were asked this, then a headline or statement can read: A third of America feels that way. Till then, it is a few people and then that somehow reflects on the nation as a whole. Gimme a break.
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halls120
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 41):
Lets not forget that Hamas and Hizbollah are not Al Qaeda.

You are correct, they aren't. But Al Queda isn't the only terrorist organization in operation that needs to be eliminated, and if CAIR really cared about consistency, they would comdemn ALL forms of Islamic-related terrorism, and not pick and choose the way they do.

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 43):
How many of you americans have been outside your country? Come to Europe and have a holiday and discover this beautiful continent.

I have, several times. Austria, Germany, Norway, England, Scotland, Ireland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Greece, and Russia so far.

France or Italy is next up, this coming spring.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 43):
How many of you americans have been outside your country? Come to Europe and have a holiday and discover this beautiful continent.

Count me as one who has. All continents but Antarctica. 100+ countries and territories and counting (all 50 states and US territories as well). Lived overseas, on top of it.

Now what?
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MDorBust
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 43):
How many of you americans have been outside your country? Come to Europe and have a holiday and discover this beautiful continent.

Does having been born in Germany count as being outside the US?
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RE: Large Minority Of Americans Want Muslims ID'd

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 41):
Again, tell me what will satisfy you. Should every muslim in the world join hands in Kansas and sing aloud Kumbayah and chant "death to terrorists!" all in one voice with vibrato? Seriously, I just want to know what you mean by "they all need to condemn terrorism as a people." HOW do they need to do that to match your standards?

And this kind of nonsense was to be expected from you, FSpilot. There is no set standard when it comes to this, but there is perception. Look at the outrage they expressed over a cartoon a few months ago - the message was clear and loud. Why can't they accomplish the same message against terrorism? It's really not that freaking hard.

Look at Americans and the Westboro Baptist nutjobs - every time they make it into the news, Americans are quick to condemn their extremist actions. That's why nobody (with any sense) thinks of them whenever they see Americans - a largely Christian people.

Again - there is no set standard of mine for this - it all boils down to what people see and hear, what they perceive, and what they judge.

Don't ever tell me again that Muslims cannot paint a better picture of themselves - they can, but so far they refuse to.

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 41):
They really have tried. FOX news just doesn't broadcast it.

Can't leave the jab of Fox News out - typical.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
But is that THE ONLY reason you wouldn't do it? Is there no moral outrage at the very concept of such a thing? All I hear is you being worried about the Islamic reaction-what about reaction from us here in the states?

Certainly not the only reason Falcon - I didn't mean to imply that. I kind of figured that moral outrage is a given in this case - you know I'd never support that kind of thing - I hope.

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 44):
NWA, how would you even know whether muslims "as a people" condemn those who murder and kill in their name and religion?

Well - they made their message of condemnation of a cartoon quite obvious to the entire world, now didn't they? I'm not suggesting they riot over terrorism - but don't tell me that they can't spread messages as a people.

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 44):
For that matter, do American Christians condemn "as a people (not group leaders)" the American terrorists calling themselves Christians who bomb abortion clinics in the name of their religion, or the Oklahoma City Federal Building for that matter?

Absolutely - if you couldn't take hint of the anger, sadness, and sorrow Americans felt regarding that event, then you need to stop typing. Not to mention the facts that our government stepped up, arrested him, put him through the system, and took care of him for us, and most of us were happy when he got the needle. That's a pretty good hint for others as to how we feel about people from our country who commit acts of terror.




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