aloges
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What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:18 am

I just read that anti-Semitism and the use of the word "Jew" as an insult is growing back in Germany - the article (in German) was about schools in Berlin - this time fuelled by both German Neo-Nazis and fanaticised Muslim students.

I have to ask, what on Earth did they do?! Is it the vicious circle of violence and hatred in the Middle East plus the old "murderers of Jesus" nonsense, is it because Jews are such a small minority they'd never be able to stand up to any of the other traditional world religions, or why do they constantly have to defend themselves? Leave them the hell alone everyone!






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ANCFlyer
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:26 am

Oohhh, this will be interesting.

Let me see - the usual crowd will be here shortly to discuss how the Israelis are henous murderous land grabbing infidels, and the other usual crowd will be here to defend them against the attacking hoards . . .

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
Is it the vicious circle of violence and hatred in the Middle East plus the old "murderers of Jesus" nonsense,

Yup, you said it my friend . . . it's ridiculous. All in the name of religion. You don't worship the same God(s) as me so now I have to kill you. Isn't that nearly the dumbest damn reason to maintain a feud you've ever heard?
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andessmf
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:29 am

Interesting tidbit I found a few weeks ago regarding anti-semitism in the world prior to WWII.

"In 1939 a Roper poll found that only thirty-nine percent of Americans felt that Jews should be treated like other people. Fifty-three percent believed that "Jews are different and should be restricted" and ten percent believed that Jews should be deported. Several surveys taken from 1940 to 1946 found that Jews were seen as a greater threat to the welfare of the United States than any other national, religious, or racial group."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism
 
dtwclipper
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:30 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Let me see - the usual crowd will be here shortly to discuss how the Israelis are henous murderous land grabbing infidels, and the other usual crowd will be here to defend them against the attacking hoards . . .

How right you are...I would rather see a double feature of Gigli and Battlefield Earth then read some of the lovely things that are going to come up here.
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CaptainJon
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Yup, you said it my friend . . . it's ridiculous. All in the name of religion. You don't worship the same God(s) as me so now I have to kill you. Isn't that nearly the dumbest damn reason to maintain a feud you've ever heard?

Don't they all know it's the same God as the Christians pray to and yes even Allah is the same God??? I don't know why antisemitism still exists people say it is due to jealously or some other rubbish but why does anyone hate any ethnic group for that matter? Why are the blacks so hated as well? I remember hearing a study in sociology class that people go great lengths to avoid people of certain ethnicities. Such as crossing the street to even avoid eye contact!
 
cannibalz3
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:07 am

Hating on Jews has been pretty popular for a long time now. I wrote an essay about the Bubonic Plague, and this was part of the result:

While few direct effects remain today, these religious consequences of the Black Death have fundamentally altered the history of Western civilization.
Confusion over the source of outbreak of the plague gave rise to the persecution of Jews. Jews were already strongly disliked in Western Europe previous to the outbreak: there was a long history of previous persecution. Geoffrey Chaucer describes Jews as “’… hateful to Christ and to his compaignye’” (Chaucer qtd. Ziegler 98). Where Jews were allowed to live, restrictions were often placed upon them forcing them into certain trades, houses, and lifestyles. At the time, Jews were widely believed to be involved in witchcraft or other heretical actions. Because rabbinical edicts and kosher law compelled Jews to be somewhat more sanitary than their surroundings, many Jewish communities were temporarily spared the onslaught of the Black Death. Owing to the conception that Jews were not becoming infected with everyone else, medieval Christians found Jews who (generally under torture) confessed to poisoning the wells of their towns and purposely spreading the plague; these admissions led mobs to form, sometimes with the encouragement of local leaders, with the purpose of killing resident Jews where they could be found. In the German city of Mainz estimates of Jews burned alive are as high as twelve thousand; in Strasbourg, sixteen thousand (Ziegler 103). While Ziegler notes that “the persecution of the Jews waned with the Black Death itself; by 1351 it was all over” (108), the European Jewish population suffered an irrecoverable decline. While tempered with the ending of major infection, such attitudes of open hostility towards Jews continued long afterwards. These burnings were neither the first nor the last pogroms of Western Europe, but only represent one instance of anti-Semitism in a history which is spread out over thousands of years. The significance of these particular crackdowns was fully recognized when Duke Casimir II of Poland (seeing Jews as an economic boon) extended an invitation to the Jews of Western Europe to move to his nation. Many surviving Jews families took up his offer, and moved to establish important Jewish communities, some of which still exist today. While far from removed from anti-Semitism, many Jewish families found Poland, the Ukraine and the Baltic regions to be relatively peaceful, and made a place for themselves within the societies and permanently altered the demographics and history of the Jewish people and Eastern Europe.

So, there doesn't necessarily need to BE a good reason to attack Jews. I'm Jewish and not Israeli, but I catch a fair amount of flak for Israeli actions. Whether you support what Israel does or not, nobody can deny that it is currently a prime stimulus for many people's antisemitism.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):

I have to ask, what on Earth did they do?! Is it the vicious circle of violence and hatred in the Middle East plus the old "murderers of Jesus" nonsense, is it because Jews are such a small minority they'd never be able to stand up to any of the other traditional world religions, or why do they constantly have to defend themselves? Leave them the hell alone everyone!

 checkmark 

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Let me see - the usual crowd will be here shortly to discuss how the Israelis are henous murderous land grabbing infidels, and the other usual crowd will be here to defend them against the attacking hoards . . .

I'm here ready to defend, if necessary, just as I was in the Iraq thread earlier.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
prebennorholm
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:20 am

When looking back in history - hundreds of years: The reason is that Jews in general made subcultures which were more successful in education, economy etc. That made the surrounding (sub-)cultures envious.

The Jews have never been more than a small fraction of one percent of the world population. But if we look at their share of great inventors, scientists, successful businessmen etc....
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
redngold
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:24 am

Unfortunately it's been true almost since the beginning of time... if you believe that the Bible is historically true. Personally, I believe it comes from spiritual jealousy - hard to explain what that means to me, without starting a flame war.
Up, up and away!
 
pelican
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Israelis are henous murderous land grabbing infidels, and the other usual crowd will be here to defend them against the attacking hoards . . .

Even if this were true it would not justify antisemitism.

pelican
 
andessmf
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting CannibalZ3 (Reply 5):
Whether you support what Israel does or not, nobody can deny that it is currently a prime stimulus for many people's antisemitism.

But as a continuation from my reply #2, there have always been complaints about the Jews in the ME, going back prior to the creation of Israel. There are some who pick up the 'complain of the the day' and run with it till the next ready-made complain is manufactured, therefore never really looking deep to find out WHY they started to complain in the first place.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 9):
Even if this were true it would not justify antisemitism.

Absolutely agree . . . I was merely attempting to point out that our friend ALoges has started yet another thread with the word JEW in the title and therefore the standard issue arguments from the usual crowd will ensue.

There is no room for antisemitism - or any other discrimination - in this world IMO.
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davestanKSAN
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:48 am

Well I'm a half-Jew. My Father's side of the family is Jewish. My Mother's side is Catholic.

I'm thankful for both cultures and what I've learned from them.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
There is no room for antisemitism - or any other discrimination - in this world IMO.

 checkmark  x 1000000000

Including not cutting in front of Senior Citizens at the buffet line. Come on, ANC deserves to eat just as much you young bucks.  duck   silly 

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
andessmf
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 12):
Come on, ANC deserves to eat just as much you young bucks.

Have you seen that growing belly? We are doing him a favor by cutting in front of him!

 duck 
 
rjpieces
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:25 am

Anti-semitism dates back thousands of years and will likely always be around as long as there are Jews around, and there will always be Jews just as there have been since the times of the Bible...There is still much anti-semitism in the world today, mostly in the Arab/Muslim world and even our fair share on A.net...What is there to do about a poison that has been around for thousands of years?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
cairo
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:31 pm

As for Aloges' question about anti-semitism in Germany, I've got no idea how to explain that - since I've never lived there - but I think I can comment intelligentally on anti-semitism in the Middle East and probably all Muslim nations.

Today, 1.4 billion Muslims are mostly anti-semitic to some degree, as far as I can tell. How did this get started? That is debateable and probably has many reasons.

What I do know for sure is that the thing that keeps anti-semitism going, and creating new 'converts' everyday, has a very simple explanation: the behavior of Israel.

I am not arguing that what Israel does is right or wrong, all I am saying is that anti-semitism is one result of Israeli policies. It is much like the invasion of Iraq and the opinion of America: whether the invasion was right or wrong is a matter of debate, but the fact remains that it created an anti-American feeling among much of the world.

It could be true that Israel's creation in 1947 was the right thing to do and that everything Israel has done since then has been totally correct, but nevertheless, it is Israel's policies that is the biggest perpetuator of anti-semitism today, at least among Muslims.

Historical precedence and religious reasons are interesting, but my reading of the locals in Egypt and in the handful of other Islamic nations I visit frequently, is that negative opinions of Israel are overwhelmingly what perpetuates anti-semitism.

Anyway, that is my take on Islamic anti-semitism, which I think is the main form of anti-semitism that exists today.

Cairo
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:33 pm

Thats a subjective question.

If I put my hand on the Polish passport I will answer it one way.

If I put my hand on the American passport I will answer it another way.
 
Mir
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:35 pm

Could it just be that the constant griping gets on people's nerves eventually?  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
L-188
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Oohhh, this will be interesting

Wait let me get some popcorn going.....

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 7):
reason is that Jews in general made subcultures which were more successful in education, economy etc.

So in other words, the Jews are the medival equivelent of High School Asian kids in California.

 duck 
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
rjpieces
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 15):
What I do know for sure is that the thing that keeps anti-semitism going, and creating new 'converts' everyday, has a very simple explanation: the behavior of Israel.

And your explanation for the hundreds and thousands of years of anti-semitism long before the state of Israel formed?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19):
And your explanation for the hundreds and thousands of years of anti-semitism long before the state of Israel formed?

1800 BC is barely in the "thousands"
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:57 pm

Someone in the school yard always gets picked on, usually the easy targets with a victim mentality. Put that up to a Global level and you see that the jews are the equivalent of the schoolyard geek with the thick glasses that gets bullied by others.

Humans will always pick on the odd ones out/those who are different, it is a natural mechanism, but as a result someone is always gonna lose out, usually the minorities cos they're the easiest to.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
cairo
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19):
And your explanation for the hundreds and thousands of years of anti-semitism long before the state of Israel formed?

I wasn't alive "hundreds and thousands" of years ago to comment about that, but I am sure there are books about it arguing whichever point of view you want to believe.

I make it a policy to comment only on things with which I have first hand knowledge, at least here on a.net. Everything else is just hearsay or borrowing the opinion of a policymaker/journalist.

I can explain Islamic anti-semitism today based on what I hear in the ME. This is from conversations, newspapers, TV, and so on.

Btw, don't confuse an explanation with justification.

Cairo
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:36 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 15):
Today, 1.4 billion Muslims are mostly anti-semitic to some degree, as far as I can tell. How did this get started? That is debateable and probably has many reasons.

Well my understanding of how it (Muslim anti-semitism) started (in very rough terms) was that the Prophet Mohamed started up going around organising people for his new religion, in the process he asked them for funding to help pay for it all (gold, jewels, gifts of kind etc etc), when he got to the Jews however they refused and told him to get lost him and his new religion. He then declared that Jews were evil and must be destroyed etc etc, to this day the koran encourages this and of course when the modern day state of Israel was set up next to several Muslim countries what we have today is the result. Yes Israel takes things a bit too far often and should give back territory, but at the same time they have a right to live and in peace without terrorists or suicide bombers disturbing that. In many ways they are quite restrained as they could bomb the shit out of any of the surrounding countries, and failing that they could nuke them all.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 20):
1800 BC is barely in the "thousands"

quite correct. Islam has not been around for a very long time at all compared to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddism etc
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HAWK21M
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:07 pm

I often wondered why too.Is it to do with Jealousy.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
dtwclipper
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Let's see what we did:

We killed Christ
We did not accept Mohammad
We used Christian baby blood to make our Matzo
We caused the Plague
We stabbed the Germans in the Back at Versailles
We control Commerce
We control Finance
We control the News Media
We control Hollywood

Now, if you buy into all or any of these then you know what we did.
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Superfly
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:28 pm

Hatred against any race/national origin of people is wrong.

Now let me ask;
What on earth did the Blacks do to anyone?
What on earth did the Latinos do to anyone?
What on earth did the Indians do to anyone?
What on earth did the _________ do to anyone?

Shall I continue?
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dtwclipper
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 22):
newspapers, TV, and so on.

Read: State Sponsored Anti-Semitism!
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cxsjr
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:48 pm

IMHO, religion is a dictatorship with no boundries!
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
What on earth did the Indians do to anyone

Which Indians are you reffering to.Native Indians or the Indians from India  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mt99
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:57 pm

"it's hard to be a jew on christmas,
my friends won't let me join in any games,
and i can't sing christmas songs or decorate a christmas tree,
or leave water out for rudolph 'cause there's something wrong with me!
my people don't believe in Jesus Christ Divinity!
i'm a jew a lonely jew on christmas!

Hannukah is nice but
why is it, that Santa passes over my house every year.
and instead eating ham i have to eat kosher Latkes.
instead of Silent Night i'm singing "Hu Hagtol Gavish"
and what the fuck is up with lighting all these fucking candles tell me please.
i'm a jew. a lonley jew.
i can't be merry, cause i'm hebrew
on Christmas.


Hehhe - got to love Southpark  Smile
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Superfly
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 29):
Which Indians are you reffering to.Native Indians or the Indians from India

Natives here in America. Now do you have an answer?  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
keesje
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:14 am

I'm going to say something somewhat dangerous here..

A large percentage of every populations are not so bright, well even ..

They don't need good reasoning and independent info to make up their mind.

There are always some populist that can use a group like the jews to explain misery for another group.

A proven methodology is to load people with misinformation, play on national feelings, duty & honor to convince them a group (jews e.g.) are a threat and fighting them is justified self defense.

Suprising how the method proves effective all over the world, however as I said the majority of people are ..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
mirrodie
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting Cairo (Reply 15):
has a very simple explanation: the behavior of Israel.

WHAT?!

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19):
And your explanation for the hundreds and thousands of years of anti-semitism long before the state of Israel formed?

Thank you.

I really don't see what the problem is. Everyone is Jewish. Catholics are impatient Jews (couldn't wait for that Messiah and took the first sure thing they saw and ran with it) whilst Muslims were wandering Jews who found a new way(via Koran and Allah).

The rest is bullshit and human violence. Basically, at the very heart of the element, we are nothing more than territorial animals and religion is just another way to divide and conquer.

BTW Can't the anti-Jewish sentiment be likened to the relatively newfound resentment towards Catholicism and its priests?

Every religion and culture has its issues for us to bash. Why? Just because we are animals.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting Aloges (Thread starter):
I just read that anti-Semitism and the use of the word "Jew" as an insult is growing back in Germany - the article (in German) was about schools in Berlin - this time fuelled by both German Neo-Nazis and fanaticised Muslim students.

I have to ask, what on Earth did they do?! Is it the vicious circle of violence and hatred in the Middle East plus the old "murderers of Jesus" nonsense, is it because Jews are such a small minority they'd never be able to stand up to any of the other traditional world religions, or why do they constantly have to defend themselves? Leave them the hell alone everyone!






Yes, it feels better now.

Are you refering to incidents of the type like this German Jewish highschool girl being attacked by Arab teenagers (boys and girls) in Berlin Kreuzberg (a district with a high number of immigrants) a few weeks ago?
According to the TV news, on one occasion they stormed the classroom and demanded to have the "Jew" handed over (the teachers called the police and had them kicked off the school grounds), though mostly they have been waiting outside the school, where the school authorities have no jurisdiction. She was put under police protection (a couple of plainclothes police officers following her to school and back, plus uniformed police patrolling more often in the neighbourhood).
In an interview this girl stated that she consideres herself as a German of Jewish religion and while she understood that several of her tormentors have lost relatives in the various wars with Israel, she has no connections with Israel.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Superfly
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 33):
The rest is bullshit and human violence. Basically, at the very heart of the element, we are nothing more than territorial animals and religion is just another way to divide and conquer.

 checkmark 
Bring back the Concorde
 
mandala499
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:29 am

What did they do? They turned left after crossing the red sea instead of turning right! So they ended up with the oranges and not the oil...

Oh... hang on, is that a bad thing or a good thing? Oh heck, I dunno...

Sorry, just couldn't resist...  Smile

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
the usual crowd will be here shortly to discuss how the Israelis are henous murderous land grabbing infidels,

See, I told you . . .

Quoting Cairo (Reply 15):
What I do know for sure is that the thing that keeps anti-semitism going, and creating new 'converts' everyday, has a very simple explanation: the behavior of Israel.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Hatred against any race/national origin of people is wrong.

Now let me ask;
What on earth did the Blacks do to anyone?
What on earth did the Latinos do to anyone?
What on earth did the Indians do to anyone?
What on earth did the _________ do to anyone?

Shall I continue?

 checkmark  Spot on Larry!
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
F9Animal
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:05 am

I have no idea what "jews" did to get such a bad name. Nothing pisses me off more than a subject like this.

Anybody who hurts or kills someone because of their beliefs, is not a true believer in god. God would never applause such actions.

Everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe. Nobody has a right to be hurt or killed for believing. To enforce or threaten or kill someone because they don't believe in the killers belief, is a whack nut job.

I believe in Santa Clause. Do I deserve to be killed, threatened, or hurt? Give me a friggin break. BRING IT ON!!!! LOL!  Smile
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
FlyUSCG
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Now let me ask;
What on earth did the Blacks do to anyone?
What on earth did the Latinos do to anyone?
What on earth did the Indians do to anyone?
What on earth did the _________ do to anyone?

I believe it basically comes from the perception of superiority. My RA (resident-advisor) freshman year finally put it in a way that made sense (in terms of me finally understanding the logic of those who hate others). He was raised to think of blacks as lower class citizens. The logic he was taught is that they have never shown any superiority in history, ie: blacks were enslaved and whites weren't, therefore "we must be Superior". And I think we can all agree thats how it was with American Indians too(god-less, savages, etc...). So I'm not saying I agree with these, just giving some insight as to why some people do. And while I support Israel (they dont openly call for the destruction of the entire Islamic world), I wouldn't be too happy if a bunch of Cuban refugees were all of a sudden given there own country right here in the middle of MY Orange County (obviously just an example).
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Yellowstone
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RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 23):
Well my understanding of how it (Muslim anti-semitism) started (in very rough terms) was that the Prophet Mohamed started up going around organising people for his new religion, in the process he asked them for funding to help pay for it all (gold, jewels, gifts of kind etc etc), when he got to the Jews however they refused and told him to get lost him and his new religion. He then declared that Jews were evil and must be destroyed etc etc, to this day the koran encourages this

Close but no cigar. There was a strong Jewish community in the area of Mecca at the time of the Prophet Muhammad. When Muhammad started preaching the tenets of Islam, the pagan ruling tribe of the area, the Quraysh, opposed his message and began persecuting the early Muslims. This was largely for economic and political reasons, as they felt that the Prophet's teachings challenged their authority (also, they were worried that they'd lose the business of pagan pilgrims visiting the Kaaba in Mecca - which obviously turned out to be unfounded). The Jews in the area had strong business ties to the Quraysh, so for their economic self-interest they sided with the Quraysh against the early Muslims. So Muhammad and his followers attacked and killed this group of Jews, not because the Jews wouldn't join with Muhammad, but because they were allied with the enemies of Muhammad. The Quran respects Jews in general as people of the book, and medieval Islam contains many examples of prominent Jews contributing to society as dhimmi (protected minorities - yes, they did have to pay extra taxes, but they didn't have to serve in the caliphate's army). Anti-Semitism in the modern Muslim world is largely a product of certain leaders exploiting certain Israeli actions to consolidate their power over their uneducated followers.
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PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:00 am

It's completely wrong to base anti-semitism on the killing of Christ.
Long before the time of Jesus, Jews were not treated that well by the
public...think Egyptians...then think the Romans.

This is an issue that is thousands of years old, so it is unlikely to go
away anytime soon. Sort of like prostitution.

As for anti-semitism in Germany today, I think there is a more serious
threat of this in France and in Russia than in Germany. Don't look for
the Germans to start warming up the ovens in Sachsenhausen or Dachau.

When I've had very serious conversations with my German friends regarding
Jews and Germany today, their main issue of contention is the fact that
they are continuous being asked to pay for "reparations" in the forms of
new memorials or information centers...especially since the government
is running deficits and really doesn't have enough money for the upkeep
or rebuilding of infrastructure (particularly in the former DDR).

That, coupled with the fact they, nor their parents, were not responsible
for what the Nazi's did over 60 years ago, kind of leaves a little bitterness
in their views. But I wouldn't call any of them anti-semitic.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 41):
I think there is a more serious
threat of this in France and in Russia than in Germany.

I can't speak for France but you are spot on about Russia. I started a thread a few months ago about the numerous random Nazi/Skinhead killings that take place in Russia today. It happens in broad daylight on subway trains and the attckers if convicted get very light sentences.
I was given a Heil Hitler salute within the 48 I was in Moscow.
They hate everybody, not just Jews.

Not to be knit-picky but the term 'semitic' encompases Arabs, Assyrians, Ethiopians about a dozen other groups from the Middle-East and northern Africa.
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ShakeZulaNJ
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:37 am

RE: What On Earth Did The Jews Do To Anyone?

Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:27 am

I don't know where it comes from. If I had to make a random stab in dark...

Hostory has not been kind to the Jewish population. Shakespeare's Shylock is denounced in the Merchant of Venice, yet gives his famous soliloquy which makes you wonder how "immoral" the character really is. As well, Jewish people tended to control financial institutions and charged interest, something which, correct me if I'm wrong, was greatly frowned upon by the Catholics. It seems to me like it was a matter of one group having power(or the appearance of having power) and others not. So along comes lovely events in the our glorious world history, like the Spanish Inquisition and the pogroms, which some people used to take back that power and wreck havoc on other people that did nothing wrong. Ignorance and too much power make for a deadly combination. As well, everyone needs to have someone to blame when something bad happens; the Jewish people just happened to be convenient scapegoat because they lived very different lives because of their religion. The Jewish population of Germany was in no way responsible for the wretched state of Germany after World War I, but that didn't stop an entire regime from blaming them.

As for Israel, I can't say I agree with some of what they have done in the past, but it's not like they've had very many options either. Groups like Hamas don't exactly want to play nice in the sandbox with the other kids. They want to fight dirty, but when others fight back as well, they run away crying.
It's not bird strike, it's engine suck...

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