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jetjack74
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Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:01 am

Our favourite resident loon on the left, Denis Kookcinich is running for the Oval Office again. Looks as if Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama will have some serious competition. I think General Zod has a better outside chance than Congressman Kookycinich.
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Superfly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:09 am

Kucinich is a fine individual and a great Congressman. I don't think that he has a chance at a national office though.
He isn't competing for the same voters are Senator Clinton or Obama.
Senator Clinton is a moderate and Congressman Kucinich is a liberal. They represent different segments of the Democratic Party.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Thread starter):
Our favourite resident loon on the left, Denis Kookcinich

::scribble:: I'll make note of that the next time someone says it's Ted Kennedy, Cindy Sheehan, or Michael Moore.

I actually voted for the guy in the Oregon primaries the last time around, only because Kerry already had the nomination in the bag, but Kucinich still made it to all the local town hall-style meetings he'd set up. I cast my vote to say thanks for paying attention to us even when he didn't have to. He ended up getting 15% of the Oregon vote during the primaries, IIRC.
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jetjack74
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Kucinich is a fine individual and a great Congressman.

Not sure about the great congressman but he is a nice guy. I went to listen to him speak during the 2000 campaign, and got to shake his hand. Seems like an alraight guy. I just would never vote for him.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
I don't think that he has a chance at a national office though.

We agree there

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
He isn't competing for the same voters are Senator Clinton or Obama.

And there.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Senator Clinton is a moderate and Congressman Kucinich is a liberal. They represent different segments of the Democratic Party.

Well, we really aren't sure what Hillary is. She changes her theme form time to suit her popularity, but as do most politicians. But she ducks the hardball questions. She doesn't go on any circiut TV shows like Hardball, The O'Reilly Factor, or Lou Dobbs. She's totally absent from TV. I wonder how well she would come out under pressure. She's going to have to go live and in person. She's not going to win the way she did in NY. The national stage is different.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
Cindy Sheehan

Oh and on that subject.  Wink
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235882,00.html

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
He ended up getting 15% of the Oregon vote during the primaries, IIRC.

But he won't score that well in key states such as Iowa, NH or Michigan.
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bushpilot
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:52 am

I would agree that he doesnt have a realistic shot at winning the oval office

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
but Kucinich still made it to all the local town hall-style meetings he'd set up.

He was also the ONLY Presidential candidate to campaign in all 50 states. He was in Alaska, he campaigned which is a first for our state. The only time we see the commander in chief is on a re-fueling stop once at Elmendorf AFB once a term. IIRC Bush has not been here since his 04 victory.

I personally would like to see all the primaries held on the same day. With the system we have now, POTUS candidates only need to focus on a few key states for thier nomination, and that isnt fair to the rest of us.
 
Superfly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 3):
She doesn't go on any circiut TV shows like Hardball, The O'Reilly Factor, or Lou Dobbs.

She has too much class to waste her time on trashTV programs like that.
She has appeared on Larry King.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 3):
But she ducks the hardball questions. She doesn't go on any circiut TV shows like Hardball, The O'Reilly Factor, or Lou Dobbs.

She was running for Senator from New York in her last election. Why on earth would she waste her time on the above programs, in fact, which of the current crop of White House contenders make any sort appearances on those shows? Every now and then I see Bill Richardson, but he's usually just giving commentary on the immigration problem as a sitting governor.
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luv2fly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Kucinich is a fine individual and a great Congressman.

Well a bankrupt city of Cleveland say otherwise about his financial abilities of the "boy" Mayor!

http://www.realchange.org/kucinich.htm
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dvk
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 4):
I personally would like to see all the primaries held on the same day.

Absolutely! The way the primaries are staggered deprives the states with later primaries of any real voice in who gets nominated.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
He isn't competing for the same voters are Senator Clinton or Obama.

Or competing for the other 99% of the voters either . . .

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Senator Clinton is a moderate

 rotfl 

May I have naive friend from San Fran for $1000 please, Alex.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 4):
IIRC Bush has not been here since his 04 victory.

 checkmark 

And Clinton blew through here at 0200 on his way to Asia several years ago, fortunately, it was at night so it didn't dick up downtown traffic. Gov Knowles was out there kissing his ass though.  silly 
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Superfly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:05 am

ANCFlyer:
Look at her voting record. Afterall, that IS what counts.
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jetjack74
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
Why on earth would she waste her time on the above programs

A lot of viewers, that's why. If Hillary is a true moderate looking to court moderate Republicans, those shows would great places to get her message out. But they would be too afraid of a Bill Clinton/Unhinged moment on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace. But lets be honest here, she's been running for the WH since the mid 1990's

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
in fact, which of the current crop of White House contenders make any sort appearances on those shows?

Republicans
John McCain-Hardball, Meet the Press, The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity and Colmes, Neil Cavuto ,The Situation Room Late Edition, Sacrbough Country
Mitt Romney-Hardball, The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity and Colmes, Neil Cavuto
Rudi Guiliani-Hannity and Colmes, FoxNews Live Aaron Brown Late night, Meet the Press
Newt Gingrich-Fox News Contributer, so he's not able to go on other networks

Democrats
Barack Obama-Oprah Winfrey, ????????????
Hillary Clinton-Larry King, with Bill Clinton, The Today Show?
Denis Kucinich-Hannity and Colmes, The O'Reilly Factor, Your World with Neil Cavuto, Tucker, The Big Story with Jon Gibson, Hardball
John Kerry-Hannity and Colmes, Hardball, Your World with Neil Cavuto, Larry King, Lou Dobbs. Aaron Brown
Jon Edwards-Same as John Kerry

So, it looks like Denis Kucinich is in the lead. He's the most daring one of all them. Hats off to him. He at least has balls unlike the others. I'll give Obama the benefit of the doubt, he's a surprise in the race for the WH, but 6 months down the road, if he's only going to the safe venues, than we'll know what he's made of. If he's confident enough to be president, then he should have no fear of going on a tough show, whether it's a waste of time or not(as you might think), Prime time TV is where they should go, otherwise redflag , they're scared of something

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
She has appeared on Larry King.

A safe venue with her husband. Lets see her on the same show that her husband became unglued on.
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Superfly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):
John McCain-Hardball, Meet the Press, The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity and Colmes, Neil Cavuto ,The Situation Room Late Edition, Sacrbough Country
Mitt Romney-Hardball, The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity and Colmes, Neil Cavuto
Rudi Guiliani-Hannity and Colmes, FoxNews Live Aaron Brown Late night, Meet the Press
Newt Gingrich-Fox News Contributer, so he's not able to go on other networks

A very safe venue. That list looks more like a membership to a country club. Big grin
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jetjack74
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
That list looks more like a membership to a country club.

It's going somewhere at least. But hey, I gave Kucinich credit.
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halls120
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):Senator Clinton is a moderate
ÊÊ

May I have naive friend from San Fran for $1000 please, Alex.

 rotfl  Clinton is a moderate?  rotfl 

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
ANCFlyer:
Look at her voting record. Afterall, that IS what counts.

Just goes to show that my much repeated observation that Clinton - a dyed in the wool genuine liberal - has been brilliantly casting herself as a moderate through judicious use of her Senate voting record.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):
Republicans
John McCain-Hardball, Meet the Press, The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity and Colmes, Neil Cavuto ,The Situation Room Late Edition, Sacrbough Country
Mitt Romney-Hardball, The O'Reilly Factor, Hannity and Colmes, Neil Cavuto
Rudi Guiliani-Hannity and Colmes, FoxNews Live Aaron Brown Late night, Meet the Press
Newt Gingrich-Fox News Contributer, so he's not able to go on other networks

Democrats
Barack Obama-Oprah Winfrey, ????????????
Hillary Clinton-Larry King, with Bill Clinton, The Today Show?
Denis Kucinich-Hannity and Colmes, The O'Reilly Factor, Your World with Neil Cavuto, Tucker, The Big Story with Jon Gibson, Hardball
John Kerry-Hannity and Colmes, Hardball, Your World with Neil Cavuto, Larry King, Lou Dobbs. Aaron Brown
Jon Edwards-Same as John Kerry

Well researched list.  thumbsup 

Now a question. All of these people have been regulars on these news shows over the years, and all of them have either hinted at or declared a desire to run for president, or have actually run for president, except for Clinton and Obama. Most of the current interest in Obama is to see if he will be running for president.

Sen. Clinton, in her senatorial campaigns, has never shied away from debates or media appearances, but she's also never publically stated any desire to run for president.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 3):
she ducks the hardball questions.

This is the statement that I took issue with. What evidence do you have that Sen. Clinton shies away from the hardball questions in her campaigns?
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:30 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
Most of the current interest in Obama is to see if he will be running for president.

I think WHEN he'll be running for President. '08 or '12?

Personally, I'd prefer if he waited . . . I'm not comfortable with him solely because he's been a small time State politician and now has a whopping two years in DC. Of course, that may be one of his strengths - only two years exposure to the  redflag , but I think that more likely a disadvantage.

He's got Charisma, he's got smarts, he's articulate, he's definitely a contender, but I think in 2012 not 2008.

Fortunately, however, he's giving Hillary a scare . . . as reported this morning on CNN . . . she's updated her travel schedule and changed some plans based on Obama's appearances in NH and IA.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
Personally, I'd prefer if he waited

I would prefer it as well for the same reasons you cite, but I think that the early interest in Sen. Obama may shake things up a bit, and hopefully the result will be to force serious contenders to come forward. We're stuck with a two-year presidential campaign, so those who are going to run ought to just say so and get it over with.
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piercey
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Kucinich is a fine individual and a great Congressman.

Well a bankrupt city of Cleveland say otherwise about his financial abilities of the "boy" Mayor!

Damn straight. I'm sorry, he probably is a nice person, but GTFO Dennis the menace.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):

Barack Obama-Oprah Winfrey, ????????????

He was on Meet the Press and one of fox news programs.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
Personally, I'd prefer if he waited . . . I'm not comfortable with him solely because he's been a small time State politician and now has a whopping two years in DC. Of course, that may be one of his strengths - only two years exposure to the , but I think that more likely a disadvantage.

He's got Charisma, he's got smarts, he's articulate, he's definitely a contender, but I think in 2012 not 2008.

Problem is, if he doesn't run in 2008, he may have to wait until at least 2016 to run. Reason being, if the Democratic nominee wins in 2008, then it's almost a guarantee that person will re secure the party's nomination four years later in 2012. Then when 2016 comes around, the most likely nominee will be the Vice-President (looking at history here). The nomination would still be up for grabs but it would be a difficult uphill battle. So one thing for Barack Obama to consider if if he doesn't run now, he may not have another opportunity to make a serious run for the position.
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bushpilot
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):

I agree as well, he needs some time under his belt. I dont want him to wait to long though. Once they have been in DC to long, the poison sets in. Plus, who is really going to want to deal with the mess Bush has created?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 19):
So one thing for Barack Obama to consider if if he doesn't run now, he may not have another opportunity to make a serious run for the position.

I strongly disagree with this. Sen. Obama is only 44. I believe he should run for Illinois governor in 2010, then run for president after he has the experience of running an administration under his belt. He would only be in his mid-50's by 2016, and Americans love to elect governors, not senators, as president.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 20):
Plus, who is really going to want to deal with the mess Bush has created?

This was, really, unnecessary don't ya think?

Anyway . . .

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
but I think that the early interest in Sen. Obama may shake things up a bit, and hopefully the result will be to force serious contenders to come forward

I agree, and it is . . . the democrats will have to get serious about a potential candidate - soon.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
We're stuck with a two-year presidential campaign

 grumpy 

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 19):
Problem is, if he doesn't run in 2008, he may have to wait until at least 2016 to run. Reason being, if the Democratic nominee wins in 2008, then it's almost a guarantee that person will re secure the party's nomination four years later in 2012. Then when 2016 comes around, the most likely nominee will be the Vice-President (looking at history here). The nomination would still be up for grabs but it would be a difficult uphill battle. So one thing for Barack Obama to consider if if he doesn't run now, he may not have another opportunity to make a serious run for the position.

Interesting point about a two term democrat, but that is never guaranteed . . . Obama is a young man, he's got another thirty years of potential presidential bids in front of him. I hope he doesn't wait too long either - but not for your reasons . . . but because I don't want him to get DCized.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 20):
Once they have been in DC to long, the poison sets in.

Exactly!
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AeroWesty
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
I don't want him to get DCized.

A second good reason why he should run for IL governor first.
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halls120
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 19):So one thing for Barack Obama to consider if if he doesn't run now, he may not have another opportunity to make a serious run for the position.
I strongly disagree with this. Sen. Obama is only 44. I believe he should run for Illinois governor in 2010, then run for president after he has the experience of running an administration under his belt. He would only be in his mid-50's by 2016, and Americans love to elect governors, not senators, as president.

Finally some common sense. While Barack Obama might be an "attractive" candidate, he would be, in 2008, one of the most inexperienced candidates ever to throw his hat in the ring - at least among candidates that have a serious shot at winning. One term senators simply aren't ready to be President, no matter how intelligent and articulate they might be.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 23):
A second good reason why he should run for IL governor first.

 Wow!

And become one of Daley's lackies . . . you KNOW the State of Illinois is run from Chicago City Hall . . . I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, not even SATX . . . !
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piercey
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 25):

I disagree with that. If he is elected Gov (mind you, Illinois as a state is GOP, but Chicago is so huge it outweighs it) then he could finally clean up that state. Get Daley for Meigs  cloudnine 
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 26):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 25):


I disagree with that. If he is elected Gov (mind you, Illinois as a state is GOP, but Chicago is so huge it outweighs it) then he could finally clean up that state

I have two sisters living in Ill, and two brother that did (now living in southern WI), I'll defer to their thinking . . .

And as far as I know, the democrats have always controlled Illinois (in modern times anyway) right from the SEAT OF POWER at Daley Plaza. . . .

Their current Governor is a Democrat, both US Senators are Democrats, the political demographics in the State Legislature - as far as the State Senate are controlled by the democrats . . .

Where do you conclude Illinois is a GOP state???
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piercey
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
I have two sisters living in Ill, and two brother that did (now living in southern WI), I'll defer to their thinking . . .

Used to live in Chicago myself.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):

And as far as I know, the democrats have always controlled Illinois (in modern times anyway) right from the SEAT OF POWER at Daley Plaza. . . .

and how I'd love to see that change.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):

Their current Governor is a Democrat, both US Senators are Democrats, the political demographics in the State Legislature - as far as the State Senate are controlled by the democrats . . .

First off, the people Blagojevich and Obama replaced were Republicans. Second, it has shifted more left in recent years, but when I was still there, Outside of Chicago was Republican, IIRC.

Hey, what do I know, according to the other site, I'm a stupid 15 year old that should self-delete  Wink
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 28):
Hey, what do I know, according to the other site, I'm a stupid 15 year old that should self-delete

 wink  If the combat boot fits . . .  wink 

I went to High School in Libertyville . . . a short stint away from Alaska in my youth . . . so I'm familiar with the area from a few (I'm  old  ) years back . . .

IIRC it was always a democrat operation run by Richard J. Daley . . . contrary to the desires of Springfield . . .

But we digress . . . way off topic . . . I hope Obama waits until '12. He's not ready for the big chair yet. As refreshing as some people think he'd be, I believe he'd be handed his ass by every crafty politician and croney on the Hill.
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piercey
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
If the combat boot fits . . .

Oh, gee thanks  sarcastic 

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
He's not ready for the big chair yet. As refreshing as some people think he'd be,

Like me. Agree with all of his views, but...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
I believe he'd be handed his ass by every crafty politician and croney on the Hill.

 checkmark 

He is just to inexperienced. 2012 Obama/Richardson

back on topic, don't vote for Dennis the Menace, please?
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Superfly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 14):
Just goes to show that my much repeated observation that Clinton - a dyed in the wool genuine liberal - has been brilliantly casting herself as a moderate through judicious use of her Senate voting record.

Oh come on now, give it a rest. You have no proof that she is a "dyed in the wool genuine liberal". Keep in mind, she was a Republican until Bill set her straight.  Smile

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
I went to High School in Libertyville . .

I have a cousin that lives there. That is a very nice community.
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luv2fly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
Finally some common sense. While Barack Obama might be an "attractive" candidate, he would be, in 2008, one of the most inexperienced candidates ever to throw his hat in the ring - at least among candidates that have a serious shot at winning. One term senators simply aren't ready to be President, no matter how intelligent and articulate they might be.

It is always possible, but I could not see him doing worse then who we now have in charge!
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halls120
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 31):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 14):Just goes to show that my much repeated observation that Clinton - a dyed in the wool genuine liberal - has been brilliantly casting herself as a moderate through judicious use of her Senate voting record.
Oh come on now, give it a rest. You have no proof that she is a "dyed in the wool genuine liberal". Keep in mind, she was a Republican until Bill set her straight

BS. She is a liberal, pure and simple. Her health care plan was socialism at its finest. I read it - did you?

She has a 95 ranking from the ADA. If you want to see a more comprehensive list of her liberal ratings, see http://vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):Finally some common sense. While Barack Obama might be an "attractive" candidate, he would be, in 2008, one of the most inexperienced candidates ever to throw his hat in the ring - at least among candidates that have a serious shot at winning. One term senators simply aren't ready to be President, no matter how intelligent and articulate they might be.
It is always possible, but I could not see him doing worse then who we now have in charge!

Great - he can't do any worse, so we should elect him? How about we demand more competent leadership??
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
N174UA
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:11 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
Fortunately, however, he's giving Hillary a scare . . . as reported this morning on CNN . . . she's updated her travel schedule and changed some plans based on Obama's appearances in NH and IA.

Hell I may vote for him in the primaries for that reason alone. As long as SHE doesn't win...I'm happy.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 19):
Problem is, if he doesn't run in 2008, he may have to wait until at least 2016 to run

He'll be a 'has-been' by then. Actually, long before '16. He's using this Senate seat to run. If he doesn't get the nomination, he'll serve maybe another term as senator, and then leave. Maybe run for Gov., but this is his time.

Bad news is that most of Hilary's skeletons are long out of the closet, so it will be harder to find fault with her in 2008, thus making her a tough opponent. Obama, on the other hand, well...I'm sure the media will find some hooker or evidence he smoked a joint once in his life.  banghead 
 
luv2fly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 33):
Great - he can't do any worse, so we should elect him? How about we demand more competent leadership??

Well we can wish can't we. And even if we demand it will we get it, i.e. Bush Jr.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Superfly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:33 pm

Halls120:
Well congrats to Senator Clinton for a high liberal score. Liberal is NOT a bad thing. Also, national healthcare isn't all that liberal of an ideal. We just have too many people in the USA that is too far to the right.

I am sure Dennis Kucinich is glad to see that he is getting this much attention this far out from November 2008.
Bring back the Concorde
 
MKEdude
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Senator Clinton is a moderate

Hillary is not a moderate, nor is she a liberal. Like her husband, the good senator from Noo Yahwk has no political convictions of any consequence. Every speech, every position, every vote are are all carefully coordinated to appeal to the greatest number of people and offend the smallest number. She will say, or do anything to please whomever is standing in front of her at any given moment and thusly evades any attempt at labeling.

Barak Obama however is somewhat of an enigma. He avoids any labels simply because he hasn't been around the block enough times. And while I would agree that our presidents generally need more seasoning that has not always been the case; Lincoln, Roosevelt (both of 'em) Kennedy, even Junior did not have much experience before chasing after 1600 Pennsylvania.

Getting elected president is not about being the wisest man in the village, but rather it is about being the right person, with the right message at the right time. At the moment Obama is holding a hot hand, one that may not come around again. This may be his moment.

Then again perhaps not. Politics makes for a fickle mistress.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
halls120
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
Halls120:
Well congrats to Senator Clinton for a high liberal score. Liberal is NOT a bad thing. Also, national healthcare isn't all that liberal of an ideal. We just have too many people in the USA that is too far to the right.

So do you now accept the fact that Sen. Clinton is a liberal?

Socialized national health care is indeed a liberal idea. It sure isn't conservative. And with HillaryCare, we will get the full "dose" of her liberalism, including access to advanced specialty programs allocated by race and gender. So your brain surgeon o the future might not be the best qualified, but he or she will have the right diversity. Not all that comforting once he/she starts cutting into your brain, but hey, it's liberal, so it has to be good, right?  Wink

And your comment that "too many people.... too far to the right - are we supposed to make them all leave? Don't their views count? Or in your world, are liberals the only people with a voice that matters?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:21 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
This is the statement that I took issue with. What evidence do you have that Sen. Clinton shies away from the hardball questions in her campaigns?

Well, the October 28, 2000 showdown with Rick Lazio is the first thing that comes to mind. When he asked here about state of the education system in Arkansas:

LAZIO: In Arkansas, Mrs. Clinton, when you had responsibility for education, the student performance when you left was at the bottom of the barrel.

CLINTON: I'm not here to defend Arkansas. I'm here to run for the Senate to represent New York...

LAZIO: Could I just finish? Could I finish my point?

CLINTON: ... I take great, great offense...

LAZIO: Could I finish my...

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: ... misinterpreting and mischaracterizing what went on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)


Now, that's a clear case of her obstructing the questioning, and dodging the question. And this seemed to be a pattern in her campaign. She was trying to play the "here and now" approach, which in politiking is irrelevant. Now I totally agree with Superfly, her voting record is anything but totally liberal, she voted for many of the Bush Administrations programmes, including the Patriot Act, twice I might add. There were a few military spending she vetoed, but voted for in later votes after some window-dressing.

And here's another gem, she accused Mr Lazio of $1 million in kickbacks to lower building codes which was false, it was on Snopes.com the next day.
Here's the next exchange:
CLINTON: He received $1 million in contributions. He fought to weaken the safety standards for manufactured housing and in-home building.

LAZIO: That's absolutely false. And you know it, Mrs. Clinton. Please do not make up things.

So Mrs Clinton and her team has a habit of making things up. But yeah, I know politicians NEVER make things up. So bad example.
Full Transcript:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0010/28/smn.03.html
And recently, her debates for the NY Senatorial race, she dodged several questions about her support for the Patriot Act and why she voted for it when just one week before, she was criticising it. And her reply was that she didn't like it, but she had to vote for it because there was little alternatives(I see that as a dodge). I'm sorry, but I don't see, "little alternatives" as a reason to vote for something you're critical of.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/05/wa...56f&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
He's got Charisma, he's got smarts, he's articulate, he's definitely a contender, but I think in 2012 not 2008.

I'd say more of 2016

Quoting Piercey (Reply 18):
He was on Meet the Press and one of fox news programs.

I missed that one I guess. But I would like to see him go on some shows where he's going to get grilled.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
I believe he should run for Illinois governor in 2010, then run for president after he has the experience of running an administration under his belt.

Absolutely, the presidency hasn't seen a Senator in the last 75 years Henry Clay and Warren G Harding were the only 2 Senators to go from the Senate to the WH.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
He would only be in his mid-50's by 2016, and Americans love to elect governors, not senators, as president.

Because Senators never run anything, all they do in vote. Hell, the average citizen could be a president.

[Edited 2006-12-12 05:27:01]
Made from jets!
 
L-188
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
in fact, which of the current crop of White House contenders make any sort appearances on those shows?

What happened to former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:32 pm

First you said:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 3):
She's totally absent from TV.

Then you went on to quote from her numerous TV appearances.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 39):
Well, the October 28, 2000 showdown with Rick Lazio is the first thing that comes to mind.



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 39):
And recently, her debates for the NY Senatorial race,

Ooooookaaaaaay then. (I think someone's a bit confused.)

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 39):
Absolutely, the presidency hasn't seen a Senator in the last 75 years

Incorrect. JFK resigned from the senate to assume the presidency in 1961.
International Homo of Mystery
 
MKEdude
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 39):
Absolutely, the presidency hasn't seen a Senator in the last 75 years Henry Clay and Warren G Harding were the only 2 Senators to go from the Senate to the WH.

Uhhh...Clay was never president

And Kennedy went from the Senate to the White House

Just a shot in the dark here, but history really ain't your thing is it?
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 41):
Then you went on to quote from her numerous TV appearances.

I never said or indicated "numerous" TV appearances. There were 3 debates in the 2000, and the one that I cited was only one, and then the last example was a debate in the last election. You asked for evidence, didn't you?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 41):
Ooooookaaaaaay then. (I think someone's a bit confused.)

No Westy, you're confusing 2 examples, as several individual examples. The NYT article was an OP-ED peice from 08Aug06 edition. 2 examples and a NYT article are hardly several. Hillary Clinton rarely does live interviews on National television. If she does, it's most likely heavily scripted as almost all live Clinton interactions are staged, that is with the exception of infamous Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace interview with William Jefferson Clinton.

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 42):
Just a shot in the dark here, but history really ain't your thing is it?

As far as technicalities on the backrounds of US presidents, no, that's not my strongest area. So please excuse my pardon on Mr Clay. I spent a year and a half in school here, and US presidents was hardly covered with much detail. In the UK, we didn't really focus on US presidents too much, and I doubt that US schools focused on British Prime Ministers or those in line for the Royal Throne.

[Edited 2006-12-12 06:22:13]
Made from jets!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 43):
You asked for evidence, didn't you?

To be accurate, my initial question was in regards to your statement that she "ducks the hardball questions ... and she doesn't go on any circuit TV shows ... she's totally absent from TV".

The first example you gave of Sen. Clinton dodging hardball questions was in regards to what could be regarded as off-topic to the campaign at hand, since Lazio stated that she "had responsibility for education, the student performance" in Arkansas, when in actuality she chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, not the Dept. of Education, which did have the responsibilities he was attempting to ask her to defend. During her chairmanship, she successfully fought for improved testing standards of new teachers, that was within her area of influence.

So no, it was not "dodging the question", as you claimed, she was answering it through Lazio's interruptions and misrepresentations.

I still haven't seen anything closely related to some of the more outlandish claims you've made against her.
International Homo of Mystery
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:48 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 44):
I still haven't seen anything closely related to some of the more outlandish claims you've made against her.

Ok Westy, you win.
Made from jets!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 38):
So do you now accept the fact that Sen. Clinton is a liberal?

Nope!
She supported Dubya & Co's war in Iraq. How come I don't hear any praise from the right on that?


JetJack74:
Your digging up Lazio?
Jesus Christ, your running out of ammo!
Sine the GOP hates Hillary that much, why couldn't they stop her in 2000 and again in 2006?
Republicans can and have won in New York.
Bring back the Concorde
 
itsonlyme
Posts: 120
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:36 pm

ok, this may be taking this thread in another direction, but right now isnt it all name recognition? I may certainly not know as much as the americans on this board when it comes to us politics, but i think the best person the dems could pick would be Sen Evan Bay of Indiana. The guy seems to be super popular there, former governor with a very good record. After Mark Warner dropped out, i think Bayh is the best national candidate. The only problem is Warner, despite being a moderate enjoyed a fir bit of support from the left of the party, and at the moment Bayh doesnt seem to be getting that. All this talk of Clinton/Obama/Edwards is just name only i think. I hope Obama doesnt run, the guy is brilliant, but he can wait till 2016 maybe. Possibly become Governor in 2010 - isnt the current IL Gov (Blageovich) a bit of an idiot? Even if he ran again Obama could beat him in the primaries. Anyway, i think perhaps Evan Bayh with Gen. Wes Clark (who is very popular with the party base) or Bill Nelson or Bill Richardson as VP would be a very very strong ticket for the dems, the could truly challenege all over the place, i fear if they nominate Hillary it will be 04 all over again - too much reliance on flipping Ohio or Florida.
 
Superfly
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RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting Itsonlyme (Reply 47):
i think the best person the dems could pick would be Sen Evan Bay of Indiana.

That's what I've been saying all along.
Bring back the Concorde
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Kucinich Will Run For President In 08

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 46):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 38):
So do you now accept the fact that Sen. Clinton is a liberal?

Nope!
She supported Dubya & Co's war in Iraq. How come I don't hear any praise from the right on that?

LOL, you think supporting the war in Iraq erases all of her avowedly liberal positions on a wide range of issues? You are the perfect validation for Hillary's strategy. Take a very visible middle of the road stance and hope that the voters don't realize you are a liberal at the core.

I can see you didn't bother checking out the link I provided.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography

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