nkops
Posts: 2166
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:10 am

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=4844659

This outside of Philadelphia.... I'm still in favor of metal detectors for schools.

Only student with gun was killed.

[Edited 2006-12-12 18:11:24]
:evil:
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:26 am

Looks like a suicide....



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Nkops (Thread starter):
I'm still in favor of metal detectors for schools.

Do you know the logistical nightmare of that? Schools are a place for learning, and guns for the most part need not be included. But to have kids go through a metal detector is not needed.
 
Cadet985
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 2):
But to have kids go through a metal detector is not needed.

I graduated from George Washington High School in Philadelphia, PA in 2003. We had metal detectors and x-ray machines. To get in to school every morning, we had to scan in with our ID's, walk through metal detectors, and put our bags through airport-style x-ray machines. Was it time consuming? YES. Did it cause inconveniences? YES. Did it keep school safe? YES. You say this is not needed. Hopefully I will be a father someday, and ANYTHING that will keep my kids safe is needed.

Yes, the metal detectors only keep students from carrying weapons, and even they aren't 100% effective, since there is almost always more then one way to get in a building, and there are always ways to get around the system. Most school shootings are committed by students. In Philadelphia, every public high school has school district police and city police stationed there, so that in addition to the other security measures helps to keep the school safe.

Marc
 
jamesbuk
Posts: 3712
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 11:52 pm

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:36 am

Man another one!

In english we had a substitute teacher the other day, she was american, and had come over for a few months. She taught at some school over there, and she told us this story about a guy in the school she worked at. Basically this kid, about 13, he was a bit of an outsider, and a bit of a weirdo. One day he came into the lesson, sat down and was writing. She went over and spoke to him, the convo led her to belive he was suicidal. She made up some bogus note and asked him to take it, it was to the other side of school so he'd be gone for a while.
She went over and had a look in his bag, she found a note it said "Teachers to kill" and had a long line of teachers names, then she dug deeper and found a gun at which point she called the cops and got him arrested, he pleaded insanity and 2 years later was back in her class.

Crazy or what!

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
kmh1956
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:08 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 2):
But to have kids go through a metal detector is not needed.

If you have a better idea, let's hear it.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 3):
In Philadelphia, every public high school has school district police and city police stationed there, so that in addition to the other security measures helps to keep the school safe.

Isn't it sad that this has to be done, though?
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 3):
We had metal detectors and x-ray machines. To get in to school every morning, we had to scan in with our ID's, walk through metal detectors, and put our bags through airport-style x-ray machines.

Im sorry to hear that. It must suck having to try to learn in an enviroment of fear.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 3):
Yes, the metal detectors only keep students from carrying weapons

OK, well define a weapon? nail files? Pens? scissors? All of these could kill someone just as dead as a gun can.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 3):
Most school shootings are committed by students.

True, by certainly not always, and who is going to pay for these metal detectors and the staff to run them? What do you do about the kid who shoots his way past the mags? I just see this all as very reactional to an isolated incident. The kid is question was committing suicide...it is very difficult to prevent someone from committing that terrible act once they have decided to. Lets be glad he didnt shoot the lunchlady/TSA style Xray worker in the process of getting to blow his brains out in front of a large group of fellow students. He obviously had mental health issues. It is tragic, but reactionary measures like this are short sighted and ill conceived.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 3):
In Philadelphia, every public high school has school district police and city police stationed there

Once again, I am very sorry to hear that. I wouldnt send my kids to a school where it deemed a metal detector needed to keep students safe.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3043
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:16 am

If there were metal detectors at all schools, and a student wanted to shoot up the school, couldn't he or she just pull out the gun before crossing the metal detector, killing or otherwise incapacitating the security guards a stationed at the metal detector, walking through the metal detector (which would go off, but it wouldn't matter anymore), and continuing their rampage?

A study by the Secret Service on school shootings in the wake of the Columbine High School massacre stated: "Why rely on metal detectors and police officers in schools, when the shooters often make no effort to conceal their weapons?"

Most of the time, this holds true. If anything, I would focus on making it more difficult for children to get their hands on guns (not that I would ban guns altogether, mind you).
 
Cadet985
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2002 6:45 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 6):

OK, well define a weapon? nail files? Pens? scissors? All of these could kill someone just as dead as a gun can.

That was ALWAYS my argument. Everyone always assumes that only guns and knives are weapons. But like you said, pens and scissors....almost anything a kid carries to school can be used as a weapon.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 6):
Once again, I am very sorry to hear that. I wouldnt send my kids to a school where it deemed a metal detector needed to keep students safe.

And George Washington High School is in a middle-upper class neighborhood (Somerton, for those of you from the area). It's even worse at schools in the dangerous neighborhoods.

The link that follows shows just what can happen at a school that is in a "safe" neighborhood.

http://www.northeasttimes.com/2004/0715/gremo.html

Marc
 
Mir
Posts: 19165
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 2):
Schools are a place for learning, and guns for the most part need not be included.

For the most part?  crazy 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 5):
If you have a better idea, let's hear it.

I think this reply sums it up nicely.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 7):
Most of the time, this holds true. If anything, I would focus on making it more difficult for children to get their hands on guns (not that I would ban guns altogether, mind you).



Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
For the most part?

Well I say that because of where I live. Guns are an everyday part of life here. We teach gun safety as a school program here in the bush. In ANC riflery is or was at least when I was in school a sanctioned sport.
It is entirely common to have a kid drive a snowmobile(sno-go they're called here) to school with a gun on the back. My point in this whole thing is that education is key to preventing gun accidents. Deterance is what keeps them from showing up in school. Now when you have a suicidal student, there isnt much anyone can do. Just be glad there wasnt a metal detector attendant who got shot as he made his way to do what he wanted to do. Instead of spending money on metal detectors, we should be spending it on counselors and anti-bullying programs.
 
nkops
Posts: 2166
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 7):
I would focus on making it more difficult for children to get their hands on guns (not that I would ban guns altogether, mind you).

You would have to actually ban stupid parents to do this... I believe alot of this comes from parents (or relatives) who have guns and don't teach the younger ones about gun safety, and don't properly lock up their firearms. A 15 year-old didn't get the gun from Wal-mart, but from an adult somewhere.

I do agree we need to focus on making it more difficult for children to get their guns though.
:evil:
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Another School Shooting

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:20 am

Guns do not kill people, people kill people!

 sarcastic   sarcastic   sarcastic   sarcastic   sarcastic   sarcastic 
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Another School Shooting

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:29 am

I'm stunned by this incident...I grew up in a neighboring township to Springfield (Montco) Twp...and thus I am very familiar with the area...

Security at suburban schools is very lax...in my high school, it consisted of one severely obese rent-a-cop who aimlessly wandered the hallways (as well as driving through the parking lots with a golf cart to make sure every car had a parking permit)...the only enforced rule with regards to weapons was that students were not permitted to bring scissors or knives of any sort to school (this only being implemented after an incident where a 6th grade kid repeatedly stabbed an 8th grade girl in the shoulder with sharp pointy scissors on the bus...I was on that bus [in 7th grade at the time] and it was a damn scary incident....)

Additionally, a retired local cop was hired to roam the halls and "consult" with the school on security matter...however, unlike Springfield HS, my HS was literally right across the street from the local police station, so I felt somewhat safe knowing that if something bad did happen, help was very close, regardless...

Philly.com gave his address, and I looked it up out of curiosity, and it turns out its only about 3 blocks away from the border with my township...which is somewhat scary as if this kid's family had decided to live just 3+ blocks away, it would've happened at my HS...this whole thing is scary, regardless, but that aspect makes it even scarier...

I expect there will be serious changes at all the local high schools around and including Springfield, with regards to security...be interesting to see what they do...
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