AsstChiefMark
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Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:33 am

Democratic Senator Tim Johnson of South Dakota is hospitalized at George Washington University Hospital (which houses a superb trauma center) having suffered a stroke. Sen. Johnson is a young man, not quite yet 60, known to be in good shape. Given his political contacts with the South Dakota delegation, I called Tom Brokaw and shared the news and we all got working on it. It goes without saying that our thoughts and prayers are with the senator and his family. That is first and foremost at this hour. There are also obvious political ramifications that play a potential role here: should the senator become incapacitated, the Republican Governor would appoint a successor under South Dakota law. That would put the Senate at 50-50 and tilt effective control to the Republicans under Vice President Cheney's role as tie-breaking vote.

From http://dailynightly.msnbc.com/2006/12/breaking_news.html

Mark

[Edited 2006-12-13 22:37:25]
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Siren
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:43 am

I wish Senator Johnson a quick recovery...

If the People's will is undone by his retirement or death... there will be shockwaves, as the People overwhelmingly repudiated the Republican rule in the November elections and handed the Democratic Party a mandate. To shift the house that they won control of back to the Republicans would be an effective coup d'etat. Governor Rounds has only one ethical and moral choice: Appoint a Democrat in Senator Johnson's place.
 
Tom in NO
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:57 am

I join in the best wishes for his speedy recovery.

Quoting Siren (Reply 1):
there will be shockwaves, as the People overwhelmingly repudiated the Republican rule in the November elections and handed the Democratic Party a mandate.

Tim Johnson was reelected in 2004, and as such his seat was not up for grabs in 2006 and was not part of a "democratic party mandate" voted upon last month.

Quoting Siren (Reply 1):
Governor Rounds has only one ethical and moral choice: Appoint a Democrat in Senator Johnson's place.

The more ethical option would be to hold a special election for the seat, should that be required. However, the South Dakota law what it is, Rounds would be free to choose whomever he wishes.

Tom at MSY
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:02 am

Speedy recovery I hope . . .

Quoting Siren (Reply 1):
If the People's will is undone by his retirement or death... there will be shockwaves, as the People overwhelmingly repudiated the Republican rule in the November elections and handed the Democratic Party a mandate.

However, if the Governor of South Dakota appoints a Republican, and it's written in the Laws and Constitution of the State of South Dakota, then - the People's Will is continuing to be done. Afterall, that Constitution was just dropped on South Dakota - it was written by the People.

They might have to do like Alaska was forced to do - change the law. Since our former Governor frank the Bank Murkowski (sounds good saying FORMER Governor) appointed his useless daughter to the seat he vacated the State of Alaska has changed the way it will do business if a future circumstance like that avails itself. There will now be a special election. No more "instant US Senators" for Alaska.

South Dakota might have to follow suit.

Regardless, IF the Senator doesn't recover and IF there is a Republican appointed, then it is STILL the will of the People. And everything done since the general election in November will swing back the other way. Uncle Ted Stevens (R-AK) will be the President Pro Tempore of the US Senate once again.

Does it really matter? No one in the House or Senate does anything but bitch and snivel and shoot each other down anyway . . . . with few exceptions.
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Siren
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Uncle Ted Stevens (R-AK) will be the President Pro Tempore of the US Senate once again.

We call him Senator Tubes in this corner of the country...

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 2):
Tim Johnson was reelected in 2004, and as such his seat was not up for grabs in 2006 and was not part of a "democratic party mandate" voted upon last month.

They hated Bush in 2004... stands to reason they'd hate him even more in 2006.

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 2):

The more ethical option would be to hold a special election for the seat, should that be required.

Absolutely, I agree 100%. However, staying within the bounds of the law and constitution, the most ethical choice for the Governor is to appoint a Democrat to fill the seat and finish out Senator Johnson's term.

The Constitution is a document that outlines procedures. However, it is incumbent upon those in office to put country over politics. The system broke many years ago, and this has not been the case, with rare exception over the years. If Governor Rounds proves to be a 'party' man, he will be doing the bidding of those who seek to undo those freedoms we supposedly hold dear. We simply need to examine the track record of the 107th, 108th, and 109th congresses, all republican dominated, so see what their true intentions were: corporate giveaways, occasional high profile extremist policies to appease the religious whacks who put them in power, our supposedly non-partisan federal institutions muzzled because their scientific findings (EPA, NASA, etc) didn't match the political goals of the executive branch. And Governor Rounds will stand up and cheer it on...? Well, this isn't the will of the people. He has to choose whether he'll be a party dittohead or a statesman.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:34 am

Hopefully Sen. Johnson will have a speedy recovery. From what I've heard about him, he's a stand-up guy, and his son serves in Iraq.
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AirCop
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Hopefully Sen. Johnson will have a speedy recovery.

 checkmark  With the advances in medical care, he might be up and around in no time.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
IF the Senator doesn't recover

ANCFlyer? You're a forum moderator now, congrats I guess..anyway as long as he lives he doesn't have to resign, rumor has it we had a president that had a stroke (Wilson) and his wife ran the shop until the next election.
 
lowrider
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
ANCFlyer? You're a forum moderator now,

The end is, indeed, upon us.  biggrin  thumbsup 

Quoting Siren (Reply 1):
f the People's will is undone by his retirement or death... there will be shockwaves, as the People overwhelmingly repudiated the Republican rule in the November elections and handed the Democratic Party a mandate. To shift the house that they won control of back to the Republicans would be an effective coup d'etat. Governor Rounds has only one ethical and moral choice: Appoint a Democrat in Senator Johnson's place.

Get your waders out folks, its getting deep already. Lets see if he dies or resigns and allow the corpse to cool a little before we start dragging Bush and politics into it. Before long, Bush will be blamed for causing high blood pressure and the stroke. How about the ethical choice of appointing the most qualified candidate?
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
as long as he lives he doesn't have to resign, rumor has it we had a president that had a stroke (Wilson) and his wife ran the shop until the next election.

Understood, and if he's permanently incapacitated, what then. Will he be replaced? Will he continue to hold the seat and not vote? What effect will that have on the Senate? Certainly, his wife (does he have one/) can't simply walk into the Senate Chambers and carry on where he left off without due process?

Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
congrats I guess

Thanks . . . I think  laughing 
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AirCop
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
if he's permanently incapacitated, what then. Will he be replaced? Will he continue to hold the seat and not vote?

Almost sounds like Strom Thurmond..Just checked on the Washington Post web site it stated in modern history the senate has never declare a seat vacant due to illness etc. So the final decision would be up to the Senator. Personally, I have faith that he will recover and resume a normal life.
 
MKEdude
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:26 am

I also wish him well.

The Washington Post is reporting that he is undergoing tests and his spokeswoman released a statement confirming that he was in the hospital undergoing tests and added that "It was caught very early". That sounds positive and hopeful.

Nevertheless no mater what his capacity is he does not have to resign. There is precedent here when another Senator from South Dakota in the early 70's also suffered a stroke. He asked the Governor to appoint his wife and the governor refused so he in turn refused to resign the seat. He stayed in the Senate for three more years and rarely made it to the chambers.

If Sen. Johnson were to resign the governor is under no obligation to appoint another Democrat to the seat. In fact if he did not appoint someone of his party you can be assured his career in Republican politics would be finished.
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MKEdude
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:16 am

UPDATE:

Politicalinsider.com is reporting that he is talking with his family and he is expected to be fine.

If true, it is good news.
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rjpieces
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:14 am

Drudge is reporting that he did not have a stroke or a heart attack...
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bushpilot
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:20 am

It appears he did not have a stroke or a heart attack. Sounds like he will be alright.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/12/13/johnson.stroke/index.html
 
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Siren
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:58 pm

Update from a snippet heard on CNN. Senator Johnson is in surgery, apparently. These conflicting reports are odd to say the least. They appear to be minimizing the situation. Something much more serious is happening. Harry Reid is apparently at his side, along with his family...

I am not the type who prays, but if you are, I suggest you pray for the Senator, his family, and for our country.
 
dl021
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:25 pm

Prayers go out for this person. Hopefully a speedy recovery.

Quoting Siren (Reply 1):
there will be shockwaves, as the People overwhelmingly repudiated the Republican rule in the November elections and handed the Democratic Party a mandate. To shift the house that they won control of back to the Republicans would be an effective coup d'etat.

No it would not.

Quoting Siren (Reply 4):
the most ethical choice for the Governor is to appoint a Democrat to fill the seat and finish out Senator Johnson's term.

Why was that not said about the replacement of Republican senators with democrats in the past?

Quoting AirCop (Reply 6):
rumor has it we had a president that had a stroke (Wilson) and his wife ran the shop until the next election.

I thought about that a minute ago. Now, that's an unethical thing...if he's debilitated or diminished in capacity by this he needs to resign. If he's going to recover he should do what's right for the people who elected him.
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Corsair1107
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:11 pm

I heard on the radio this morning that Senator Johnson is in critical condition recovering from emergency brain surgery in a drug-induced coma. I'll post a line once I find one. Prayers go out to him and his family.
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Siren (Reply 1):
If the People's will is undone by his retirement or death... there will be shockwaves, as the People overwhelmingly repudiated the Republican rule in the November elections and handed the Democratic Party a mandate. To shift the house that they won control of back to the Republicans would be an effective coup d'etat. Governor Rounds has only one ethical and moral choice: Appoint a Democrat in Senator Johnson's place.

Go back a few years to when Paul Coverdell, a Republican Senator died. The Democratic Governor of GA at the time, Roy Barnes, appointed Zell Miller to take his spot. Clearly Zell is a very conservative Democrat with personal beliefs probably more in line with the Republican Party than his own in many ways. However, he did count as a Democrat as far as leadership in the Senate is concerned. Without this flip, Jim Jeffords' leaving the Republican Party would have meant absolutely nothing.

So, do you think Roy Barnes acted unethically? Was his choice amoral?

Out of the hypothetical world and into the real world, best wishes to the Senator for a full recovery.
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Superfly
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:22 am

Anyone here with some medical knowledge?
I've been doing some research online about 'congenital arteriovenous malformation'?
I've read that patients can recover fully as well as die and everything in between.
I certainly hope he can fully recover rapidly.
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Siren
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
Why was that not said about the replacement of Republican senators with democrats in the past?

Because the country was not coming apart at the seams, with the constitution being threatened by the party in the minority (the Republicans)

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 17):

So, do you think Roy Barnes acted unethically?

Gov. Barnes' appointment of Zell Miller to take the seat of a Republican was unethical, yes.
 
dvk
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:29 am

If Johnson never lost consciousness, and the surgery went smoothly, his chances for recovery should be very good.
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Superfly
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:31 am

Zell Miller was a Democrat in name only. Zell Miller was just as loony as the party he voted with and as loony as the people he spoke to as a keynote speaker in 2004.
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Zell Miller was a Democrat in name only. Zell Miller was just as loony as the party he voted with and as loony as the people he spoke to as a keynote speaker in 2004.

Some truth here, but my point is that if he had officially joined the Republican caucus then Jeffords' switch would not have changed the Senate leadership.
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Superfly
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 22):
Some truth here, but my point is that if he had officially joined the Republican caucus then Jeffords' switch would not have changed the Senate leadership.

And if James Jeffords didn't switch parties, the Senate would stayed under Republican rule. If the Republicans didn't lose 5 incumbent seats in 2000, Jeffords switch wouldn't have mattered. If the Republicans didn't lose 6 incumbent seats, they would still control the senate.
Both of us should thank our math teachers.  spin 


This thread really should focus more on Senator Johnson's health and hopefully none of this political bickering would matter.
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dl021
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Siren (Reply 19):
e the country was not coming apart at the seams, with the constitution being threatened by the party in the minority (the Republicans)

Please....stop with the hysteria.....no one is threatening the constitution other than the people who want to attack us, and do so....

Fly is correct on the one thing.....the main wish for us should be for the health of the Senator in question.
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Siren
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 24):
Please....stop with the hysteria.....no one is threatening the constitution other than the people who want to attack us, and do so....

There's no hysteria. When you strip people of their rights going back to Magna Carta, there's no hysteria. That's stuff enshrined in the very fabric of our legal system which we've managed to simply strip away and disregard in the space of 5 years.

The people who attacked (past tense) have already achieved what they desire: a scared and broken American populous with ever declining freedoms - all in the name of 'fighting terror'.
 
dl021
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:10 am

No hysteria? Seriously.....let's look

Quoting Siren (Reply 25):
There's no hysteria. When you strip people of their rights going back to Magna Carta, there's no hysteria.



Quoting Siren (Reply 25):
That's stuff enshrined in the very fabric of our legal system which we've managed to simply strip away and disregard in the space of 5 years.



Quoting Siren (Reply 25):
The people who attacked (past tense) have already achieved what they desire: a scared and broken American populous with ever declining freedoms - all in the name of 'fighting terror'.

yep...that's hysteria...."Back to the Magna Carta" ? C'mon....stop the insanity. No one is stripping you of your Constitutional rights...define one of your rights that has been stripped, but perhaps decency toward the person about whom this thread is requires that you start a new thread....or not. But show me how your civil rights have been stripped from you and then show me who is at fault.
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IFEMaster
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting Siren (Reply 1):
the People overwhelmingly repudiated the Republican rule in the November elections

Umm, not when it came to the Senate they didn't. They won by a single seat. Hardly "overwhelming" as you put it.

Quoting Siren (Reply 4):
They hated Bush in 2004... stands to reason they'd hate him even more in 2006.

And that has nothing to do with this situation.

Quoting Siren (Reply 4):
the most ethical choice for the Governor is to appoint a Democrat to fill the seat and finish out Senator Johnson's term.

I would say that the most ethical choice would be to appoint whoever got the second highest number of votes, with party affiliation being irrelevant.
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AirCop
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 27):
I would say that the most ethical choice would be to appoint whoever got the second highest number of votes, with party affiliation being irrelevant.

Well this won't work, since the guy he beat, is already in the Senate, having won a seat two years ago.

May the good senator have a full recovery and a long and healthy life ahead.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Zell Miller was a Democrat in name only. Zell Miller was just as loony as the party he voted with and as loony as the people he spoke to as a keynote speaker in 2004.

In your opinion of course. Interestingly, Zell Miller had the gut to blow off the party line and talk his mind. Why is it, when people do that, people like you Larry, call them loony? What about McCain, is he Loony too? How about Joe Biden, is he Looney?

Quoting Siren (Reply 25):
There's no hysteria. When you strip people of their rights going back to Magna Carta, there's no hysteria. That's

 rotfl  Well, let me see . . . . thinking real hard now . . . I'm trying to come up with a single right I've lost????  scratchchin 

OK, here's the list:


















Now, Siren, make your list. I'm overwhelmed with curiosity. What continues to  boggled  me is I always hear how our right have been stripped away, but when I ask the very direct and simple question: Name One of YOURS that has disappeared . . . I get static.

. . . . . . . .

Now as to the good Senator Johnson, I hope that surgery went well for him. I hope he has a speedy recovery. Maybe FlyingBabyDoc can warp in here with some Doc Info as to what exactly happened to the Senator and what can be achieved with this brain surgery he had.
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Superfly
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RE: Democrat Senator Suffers Stroke

Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
What about McCain, is he Loony too?

Hell yes!  yes 
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