luv2fly
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Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:27 am

This type of statement always gets me,

"They had to execute him twice," Mark Elliot said. "If Floridians could witness the pain and the agony of the executed man's family, they would end the death penalty"

And what about the victim that this person killed. I think it is karma!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-12-14-florida-execution_x.htm
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
aloges
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:39 am

Before we get to the scheduled flame fest about the death penalty, I'd like to say "May he rest in peace." The sentence was carried out, so there's nothing left the murderer couldn't have "paid" for.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:45 am

Should have used old sparky.




Dan in Jupiter
 
Pope
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:57 am

Let me preface this by noting that I'm no soft on crime, left wing liberal.

But from what I understand of the facts, the case against this guy was completely circumstantial. There were no witnesses that identified him doing this and the chief piece of evidence in the case was supposedly the testimony of his ex-girlfriend claiming that he admitted the killing to her. While technically the admission falls under an exception to the hearsay rule, it is pretty weak.

The guy also went to his grave proclaiming his innocence. He did not eat his last meal and never waivered in his claim that he simply didn't do this.

Now, I'll admit that everything I know about this case comes from the article in this morning's newspaper but I fear that the state may have killed an innocent man. To have done that is bad enough, but if he had to suffer for 30 minutes . . .

Given the proven error rate in capital cases, I think that the state has no business killing people. While capital punishment satisfies our basic eye for an eye sense of fairness, it doesn't reduce crime rates, it doesn't save taxpayers any money and it highlights all the failure of our criminal justice system. It discriminates against the poorest, least educated and minorities.

Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

I really hope that the state got this right because if not, then a poor man was killed by his state in a cruel and unusual manner.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
deltagator
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 2):
Should have used old sparky.

Damn Skippy! Screw those hippy liberals who bitched and moaned that Old Sparky was cruel and unusual punishment. It got the job done quickly and didn't care if its occupant of the day had liver cancer.

Quoting Luv2fly (Thread starter):
"If Floridians could witness the pain and the agony of the executed man's family, they would end the death penalty"

Oh boo frickin' hoo. This "family" (and they did such a great job raising this loser) had 27 years more with their kid than his victim's family did. I have no patience or sympathy for these idiots.

I know those weren't your words Luv2Fly but that's the way this quoty thing works.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
aloges
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):

You're either stoned or I'm finding myself applauding that post for a reason.  thumbsup 
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
The guy also went to his grave proclaiming his innocence. He did not eat his last meal and never waivered in his claim that he simply didn't do this.

To be honest with you how many people in jail/prison claim they are innocent!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
aloges
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 6):
To be honest with you how many people in jail/prison claim they are innocent!

There's one difference though: you can release and compensate an innocent person who was sentenced to a prison term. You can't do that with an innocent victim of the death penalty.

typo edit

[Edited 2006-12-14 22:34:26]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

Such a true statement. Before the story loaded I told my co-worker, 10bucks says he is not white. Well what do you know, he is a Puerto Rican.

I dont have a problem with the death penalty as a principal. My problem is with the process.
Identify what crimes constitute that penalty.
Determine the correct amount of evidence is needed for that sentance.
Allow 1 appeal
Then give him the hotshot or whatever method one chooses.

This guy was on death row for 25 years or so. That is way to long.
Either we are going to have the death penalty or not. If yes, then it really should apply to everyone the same. That is simply not the case in this country.
 
aloges
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 8):
Either we are going to have the death penalty or not. If yes, then it really should apply to everyone the same. That is simply not the case in this country.

And that is never going to be the case. The higher the class an individual is in, the better is his network of personal connections to protect and benefit himself. It has always been like that, it will always be like that and it is our very nature. Humans want to live and will do everything to ensure they will, that's what comes first. Principles of democracy, equal rights and so on come after that.

It is only after you realise the limiting impact this has on equal opportunities that you can work to give them to people. So in light of that, the death penalty cannot ever be used 100% fairly, just like any other penalty. The point is that the death penalty cannot be made up for or mitigated.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
flyingbabydoc
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 6):
To be honest with you how many people in jail/prison claim they are innocent!

And how many of those actually are? More than enough to make a statistically significant difference in terms of trial and error.

As Aloges said, now there is no possibility to revert an unjust sentence, should that be the case. And executing a person is not such an easy task as many seem to think - the number of catastrophic failures and unnecessary suffering really raises the issue of whether it is even humane to proceed with such executions.

As for the family of the victims, an "eye for an eye" does not bring the beloved one back. Never did, never will.

Alex
Marriage is the art of turning a lover into a relative
 
Pope
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 6):
To be honest with you how many people in jail/prison claim they are innocent!

And are you 100% sure that they are all lying? You better be really sure because if you're sentencing a man to die, there is no remedy if you are wrong.

Take a look at this website http://www.innocenceproject.org/. It's proven that over 170 prisoners have been wrongly imprisoned for crimes they did not commit. This includes 17 sentenced to death.

We're not talking not guilty because they state didn't meet its burden of proof or not guilty because some legal technicality. We're talking about 17 people who didn't commit the crime they were sentenced to die for. I'm sorry but that's just an unacceptable error rate in my book.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

And rich black people dont end up in prison. (In reference to OJ Simpson here).

Quoting Luv2fly (Thread starter):
"If Floridians could witness the pain and the agony of the executed man's family, they would end the death penalty" (Quote from Article, not from Luv2fly)

And if Floridians would witness the pain and agony on the faces of familes of the victims, they would probably stop caring about the pain of the accused.

Quoting Flyingbabydoc (Reply 10):
As for the family of the victims, an "eye for an eye" does not bring the beloved one back. Never did, never will.

Well, let's be honest. Keeping 'em around in prison doesn't either, so why waste the time and money doing so? Why the hell should we value their life when they obviously didn't value someone else's?

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 8):
Either we are going to have the death penalty or not. If yes, then it really should apply to everyone the same. That is simply not the case in this country.



Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 8):
I dont have a problem with the death penalty as a principal. My problem is with the process.
Identify what crimes constitute that penalty.
Determine the correct amount of evidence is needed for that sentance.
Allow 1 appeal
Then give him the hotshot or whatever method one chooses.

 checkmark 
Makes sense to me.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
NIKV69
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Thread starter):
And what about the victim that this person killed. I think it is karma!

Oh you kidding the victim always is forgotten by these liberal wimps, as is the family. Who cares how many times it took. I would have used a gun. Lot quicker and cheaper.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 8):
Such a true statement. Before the story loaded I told my co-worker, 10bucks says he is not white. Well what do you know, he is a Puerto Rican.

This is a stupid statement, what does his race have to do with it? Was Ted Bundy Puerto Rican or Black? John Wayne Gacy? Dahmer? Come on, all races kill dude. Not just Hispanic or Black.
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usnseallt82
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 2):
Should have used old sparky.

 checkmark 

Or drag his ass out in the middle of West Texas and let some of the "locals" take care of it all.

Bingo....saved the state some money.
Crye me a river
 
atct
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 14):
Or drag his ass out in the middle of West Texas and let some of the "locals" take care of it all.

Bingo....saved the state some money.

Exactly. Dont mess with Texas.

Firing Squads are the most efficient. Couple pieces of lead to the brain will do the trick every time.

ATCT
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Pope
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:20 am

I think the posts on this thread clearly demostrate what's wrong with the death penalty.

I'll bet that all of you who said, let's use old Sparky aren't even familiar with the facts of this case. Therefore, you're blindly accepting the conclusion of a judicial system that has been demonstrated to be wrong time and time again. I simply don't understand how people can so easily say, let's kill the guy without even discussing the possibility that his conviction was wrong.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 12):
And rich black people dont end up in prison. (In reference to OJ Simpson here).

Of course there are exceptions but for every rich black guy who gets off, there are many more who are wrongly convicted.

Perhaps we should ask the question this way, how many millionaires (regardless of race) have been executed in the United States?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 14):
Or drag his ass out in the middle of West Texas and let some of the "locals" take care of it all.



Quoting ATCT (Reply 15):
Exactly. Dont mess with Texas.

Gentlemen, you have just confirmed my previous thoughts on most people from Texas. Thanks.
Would now be a good time to point out this case was in FLA?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
This is a stupid statement, what does his race have to do with it? Was Ted Bundy Puerto Rican or Black? John Wayne Gacy? Dahmer? Come on, all races kill dude. Not just Hispanic or Black.

I know this, my post was in reference to just how lopsided the amount of minorities are on death row. It is widely published that minorities in population make up the far majority on death row.
You mention Ted Bundy, a high profile case, with many victims, and he is a psycho path, with solid evidence against him.
This guy doesnt have credible evidence against him. If under the same situation the defendant was white, I would bet $$$ he wouldnt be given the death penalty.
 
Queso
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 14):
Or drag his ass out in the middle of West Texas and let some of the "locals" take care of it all.

You talkin' to ME?
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):

Perhaps we should ask the question this way, how many millionaires (regardless of race) have been executed in the United States?

How many millionaires commit crimes which fall under the scope of the death penalty? I personally don't know, but I'm sure that the percentage of murderers who are millionaires is fairly small. It's not how many, it's what's the percentage of murderers that are millionaires that get executed compared the the percentage of murdering non-millionaires who get executed.

And yes, if millionaires murder someone they should be executed just like everyone else, I'm just not familiar with the stats myself.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
ltbewr
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:25 am

There are several problems with this case:
The questionable witness evidence, presented several years after the alleged crime was committed.
The quality (or probable lack of quality) of legal counsel. I bet this guy had some very poorly paid public defender and with no real money to do the defense needed to assure a fair and through defense. That is especially true far too often when the death penalty is a possibility.
The excessive delay in carrying out the execution. This guy sat on death row for 20+ years. If the case was that strong against him to justify the death penalty, then it should have been carried out within a few years of the sentence. Tolling the time of the execution so many years is possibly cruel too, especially if there are questions of their degree of guilt or innocence.
There has been a number of questions raised about the use of chemical/drug injection for executions, including the US Constitutional ban on 'cruel and unusual punishments'. The way this execution went will probably become Exhibit #1 of future appeals to the US Supreme Court as to Death Penalty sentences and on the cruelty grounds.
 
bagpiper
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

Here we go again!

Ever thought that maybe rich white people statistically don't commit murders as often?

Here where I live, the county police force is being "repremanded" by the US gov't because 70% of the inmates in prison are either hispanic or black. They call that profiling. Now, last time I checked, there were three races. White, Black, and Asian (forgive me if I called any of them by their politically-uncorrect name). There is no 4th hispanic race. Yet, when hispanics are in prison, they count as a different race. But I got sidetracked.

So this county police force is being repremanded for profiling when responding to crimes. wtf?? I listen to the local 911 and police radios online, and most crimes, if the 911 operator is giving a description of the suspect, is "black male" or "hispanic male". Sure, there are still plenty of "white male" or even "white female", but the majority are black or hispanic.

I have witnessed several crimes in person, too. Most of them shoplifters running through the parking lot. Out of the 5 or 6 I have seen, only 1 was a white male.


Now I'm not saying white people don't commit crimes. I'm not saying hispanics or blacks are more "evil-minded", or anything of the sort. I'm just saying that in what I have seen with my own eyes, (not by listening to biased news reports) I have seen more minorities commit crimes.

I'm guessing the shoplifters were rather poor people, and therefor shoplifted. Around me, most of the lower income people are hispanics and blacks. Why is that? Well that is a whole 'nother can of worms, which I won't go into here.


Anyways, my 2 cents.
 
OlegShv
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:54 am

This is what gets me. All those conservatives supporting the death penalty in the United States are also usually hardcore Christians (or at least they claim to be such). One of the big ideas in Christianity is forgiveness, but they seem to never be able to forgive themselves. So that raises the question: are they realy who they claim they are?
 
luv2fly
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 22):
This is what gets me. All those conservatives supporting the death penalty in the United States are also usually hardcore Christians (or at least they claim to be such). One of the big ideas in Christianity is forgiveness, but they seem to never be able to forgive themselves. So that raises the question: are they realy who they claim they are?

Well I for one support the death penalty and am very far from being a so called "hardcore Christians" In fact I am one of the minorities that the Christians usually hate the most, GAYS!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 21):
White, Black, and Asian (forgive me if I called any of them by their politically-uncorrect name).

I believe the correct terminology is Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid  Smile At least that's what I learned in my "Policing in a diverse society" class.

Other than that, I agree with every word of your post  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
Mir
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):

 checkmark  Well put.

-Mir
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lapa_saab340
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
I simply don't understand how people can so easily say, let's kill the guy without even discussing the possibility that his conviction was wrong.

Couldn't say that better man. They'd be singing a different tune if they or one of their loves one was wrongfully convicted. One innocent man killed is one too many.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
I'll bet that all of you who said, let's use old Sparky aren't even familiar with the facts of this case

I dont care about the facts in this case. The man was found GUILTY by a jury of his peers and sentenced to death. Now people are complaining that the first dose of "humane" drugs didnt work so a 2nd dose had to be used and thats "cruel and unusual punishment". BS. Use Sparky and have no worries about 2nd doses, or use a bullet. How about dropping him from an airplane(hey this is an aviation based site)? Now draw and quartering him would be a little extreme but in some cases justified.

Dan in Jupiter
 
Mir
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 27):
I dont care about the facts in this case. The man was found GUILTY by a jury of his peers and sentenced to death

It is highly disturbing to me that you would support the execution of a person without caring whether they actually deserved it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
sprout5199
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:54 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):
It is highly disturbing to me that you would support the execution of a person without caring whether they actually deserved it.

And it is disturbing to me that you think everyone that proclaims their innocence actually is. I guess I have more faith in our legal system with all the appeal processes than you.

Dan in Jupiter
 
adopim88
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 21):
Here where I live, the county police force is being "repremanded" by the US gov't because 70% of the inmates in prison are either hispanic or black. They call that profiling. Now, last time I checked, there were three races. White, Black, and Asian (forgive me if I called any of them by their politically-uncorrect name). There is no 4th hispanic race. Yet, when hispanics are in prison, they count as a different race.

Well, I just finished a class called Introduction to Minority Cultures. I'm sure they consider hispanics to be a seperate race because they are one of the 4 major ethnic minorities in the United States (According to one of my textbooks, "Race, Ethnicity, Gender, and Class: The Sociology of Group Conflict and Change" by Joseph F. Healey [Pine Forge Press. 2003] the four major ethnic minorities are African American, Asian, Hispanic, and Native American) I just wanted to put that out there and relay a bit of information I learned throughout the semester....
Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
 
aloges
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 29):
And it is disturbing to me that you think everyone that proclaims their innocence actually is.

Where the hell did he say that? People said there had been too many doubts in this case for them to be less uncomfortable with the sentence, and you're putting this nonsense in their mouths.

Sometimes, I wish all the people clamoring for the death penalty and for cruel methods of execution "because it sets an example"/"because it saves a few bucks" would be sent to prison for a couple of months, for a crime they never committed. I'd love to hear their opinions after that! Maybe they'd make me less sick.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Pope
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 27):
The man was found GUILTY by a jury of his peers and sentenced to death.

Did you look at the link I posted related to the innocent project? ALL of those people were found guilty and 17 of them were sentenced to death.
All of those convictions were shown to be wrong. The system failed.

But I guess your own words demonstrate where you stand on this:

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 27):
I dont care about the facts in this case.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 3):
Rich white people simply don't end up on death row.

And your chances of being murdered by a rich white person are just about nil.
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itsjustme
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
Of course there are exceptions but for every rich black guy who gets off, there are many more who are wrongly convicted.

Please either insert an "IMO" in this statement or provide some source(s) to back up your claim.

Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
Perhaps we should ask the question this way, how many millionaires (regardless of race) have been executed in the United States?

How many millionaires (regardless of race) have committed crimes that warrant the death penalty?
 
aloges
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 33):
And your chances of being murdered by a rich white person are just about nil.

True, the Ken Lays of this world have different means to ruin your life.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
57AZ
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Thread starter):
I think it is karma!

No. It's just an example of gross incompetance on the part of the prison staff. There is absolutely no reason that the administration of the proper dosage should be botched so badly. Properly trained staff would have been able to calculate the proper dosage based on a proper medical evaluation of the inmate.

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 27):
The man was found GUILTY by a jury of his peers and sentenced to death.

I would place greater weight on the jury's decision if it weren't for the practice of impaneling a "Death Qualified" jury. My honest opinion is that use of a death qualified jury tends to stack the odds in favor of the prosecution in the penalty phase as it almost always eliminates potential jurors who do not support capital punishment.

Quoting ATCT (Reply 15):
Firing Squads are the most efficient. Couple pieces of lead to the brain will do the trick every time.

I don't believe that any state uses firing squad anymore. Utah was the last state to use it and I'm not certain that they have provisions on the books for it anymore. Also, the marksmen never aim for the head due to the size of the target. When Utah executed Gary Gilmore, a piece of red cloth was placed over his heart and that was the target. I should also point out that only one rifle is loaded-the others all have blank cartridges. When the rifles leave the armory, no one knows who has the live round.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
Pope
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:19 am

And now the State of Florida admits that there was a problem with the execution.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/15/diaz.execution.ap/index.html
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Pope
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 34):
Please either insert an "IMO" in this statement or provide some source(s) to back up your claim.

I did, see post #11 in this thread. A link to an organization that has exhonorated (not through technical legal issues but by a showing of actual innocence) 17 people on death row.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 33):
And your chances of being murdered by a rich white person are just about nil.

Unless you hang out with a Kennedy.

But joking aside, are you really arguing that money doesn't influence our judicial system?

The problem here is that the result of a false positive conviction (i.e. a person who didn't commit the crime being convicted) is far more devastating than a false negative (a guilty person getting off). History demonstrates that there are plenty of instances of false positive. They are easy to show because their conviction has been overturned.

But because of double jeopardy, you can't re-try the guilty guy who got off. Other than an idiot like OJ who basically admits to the crime, how do you suggest we identify the false negatives?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
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GEG
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 21):
Now, last time I checked, there were three races. White, Black, and Asian (forgive me if I called any of them by their politically-uncorrect name). There is no 4th hispanic race.

Wow...I need to tell my reletives!!!
I have no idea what I'm doing...
 
Mir
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 29):
And it is disturbing to me that you think everyone that proclaims their innocence actually is.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.  Yeah sure

Just because somebody says they're innocent doesn't make it so, and I never claimed otherwise. But I do have a serious problem with deciding to kill someone over less-than-solid evidence.

-Mir
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sprout5199
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 38):
The problem here is that the result of a false positive conviction (i.e. a person who didn't commit the crime being convicted) is far more devastating than a false negative (a guilty person getting off). History demonstrates that there are plenty of instances of false positive. They are easy to show because their conviction has been overturned.

But because of double jeopardy, you can't re-try the guilty guy who got off. Other than an idiot like OJ who basically admits to the crime, how do you suggest we identify the false negatives?

I do see your point, but I don't know how to make a perfect system. Is it better to let 100 guilty go to prevent 1 innocent from being wrongly punished? If yes what about 1000? or higher? Its like going to war, do you do it over the deaths of 10 or 10,000? All I am saying is almost every trial has it's "bad" evidence. With all the appeals and such, there is a reasonable assumption(is that like an oxymoron?) that the person is guilty. And since my(I live in Fl) society has deemed death a just punishment, it also deems the risk of executing an innocent man acceptable.

Another thing I would like to bring up, All the "anti-death penalty" people are pissed because it took so long to kill this man. Its "cruel and unusual punishment". Isn't any death "cruel and unusual"? But if we incarnate a person for life and give him 3 hots and a cot, medical and dental, TV, college courses, and a "pretty good life" with no worries, isn't that "cruel and unusual" punishment to the victim and their families?

I know I touched a nerve with my "I don't care about the facts in this case" attitude, but I am just showing my faith in what I think is the best legel system in the world. Does it have its faults? YES. But, it is like America, it may not be the best but it's the best so far.

Dan in Jupiter
 
ltbewr
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 37):
And now the State of Florida admits that there was a problem with the execution.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/15/di....html

This and other news says that Gov. Jeb Bush (don't forget, the brother of President Bush) is suspending the carrying out of death penalties until a quickly conviened panal reviews this case and how leathal injection execution is being done. They will report on Mar. 1, 2007. Pleiminary reports by the coroner notes that the needles to perform the injections were put into the tissues, not into the veins, so the drugs were not directly going into the bloodstream, expaining how this execution was carried out.
 
Lucky42
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 40):
But I do have a serious problem with deciding to kill someone over less-than-solid evidence.

I absoulutely agree with this statement..I used to be a solid fan of the death penalty...But I don't exactly trust law enforcement either. When the pressure is on I am sure there has been more than one innocent person sent to prison or maybe even death row to solve a case that has gone cold. How many have you seen exonerated by DNA evidence proving them innocent even over the objections of prosecutors to be set free? More than a few..So unless there is solid DNA and forensic evidence linking a person to a murder I feel life in prison is the way to go.
 
iamcanadian
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 36):
When the rifles leave the armory, no one knows who has the live round.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that so everyone involved in the firing squad (ie. the shooters) can just say "Mine had a blank" and not feel the guilt of killing somebody?
Shut up and calculate.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting Iamcanadian (Reply 44):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that so everyone involved in the firing squad (ie. the shooters) can just say "Mine had a blank" and not feel the guilt of killing somebody?

That's what I've heard the intention is.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
Pope
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 41):
I do see your point, but I don't know how to make a perfect system. Is it better to let 100 guilty go to prevent 1 innocent from being wrongly punished? If yes what about 1000? or higher? Its like going to war, do you do it over the deaths of 10 or 10,000? All I am saying is almost every trial has it's "bad" evidence. With all the appeals and such, there is a reasonable assumption(is that like an oxymoron?) that the person is guilty. And since my(I live in Fl) society has deemed death a just punishment, it also deems the risk of executing an innocent man acceptable.

Because the result of a false positive is so dramatic (the person ends up dead) I think that the Supreme Court should impose a requirement that due process can only be established through DNA evidence OR 2 witness identification or a combination of the two. The 5th and 14th amendments should require no less.

While it boils my blood to think that guilty people may go free because of this standard, I can't bear to think what the innocent person who lives on death row for 10+ years only to be killed by the state must feel. Governors of several states have acknowledged the flaws in our death penalty system. It's time that the country did something about it.

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 41):
I know I touched a nerve with my "I don't care about the facts in this case" attitude, but I am just showing my faith in what I think is the best legel system in the world. Does it have its faults? YES. But, it is like America, it may not be the best but it's the best so far.

I agree that our system is the best anywhere, but that doesn't mean that it can't be improved.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Euclid
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 36):
I should also point out that only one rifle is loaded-the others all have blank cartridges. When the rifles leave the armory, no one knows who has the live round.

I do not think that is correct. From what I've read, only one gun has a blank cartridge loaded, the rest have live rounds. Imagine if the only person that had the live round missed the shot.
 
777236ER
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting Pope (Reply 46):

Because the result of a false positive is so dramatic (the person ends up dead) I think that the Supreme Court should impose a requirement that due process can only be established through DNA evidence OR 2 witness identification or a combination of the two. The 5th and 14th amendments should require no less.

While it boils my blood to think that guilty people may go free because of this standard, I can't bear to think what the innocent person who lives on death row for 10+ years only to be killed by the state must feel. Governors of several states have acknowledged the flaws in our death penalty system. It's time that the country did something about it.

The sad thing is that it tends to be right wing 'small state' proponents who accept the state killing innocents as collatoral damage.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Execution Of Fla. Inmate That Required 2 Doses Spa

Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:04 am

Beside the point that I am against the death penalty anyway, it looks as if those who organized the execution were incompetent and careless. But most appalling is that more than 26 years passed since the matter and that he was kept "in storage" for 26 years. THIS is cruelty in its purest form. And is absolutely ridiculous.

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