OU812
Topic Author
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:10 am

It is wonderful to see the US provide so much for needy countries, as well as aid the security of our brother the EU!

 bigthumbsup 


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usaf/usafe.htm

United States Air Forces in Europe

U.S. Air Forces in Europe, headquartered at Ramstein Air Base, Germany, is a major command of the U.S. Air Force. It is also the air component of the U.S. European Command, a Department of Defense unified command and the U.S. component of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

More than 35,000 active-duty, reserve and civilian employees are assigned to USAFE. Equipment assets include about 225 fighter, attack, tanker and transport aircraft, and a full complement of conventional weapons. USAFE is organized geographically through two numbered air forces -- 3rd Air Force, headquartered at RAF Mildenhall, England; and 16th Air Force, headquartered at Aviano Air Base, Italy. The command has fourteen installations, six of which are main operating bases - Royal Air Force Bases Lakenheath and Mildenhall in England; Ramstein and Spangdahlem Air Bases in Germany; Aviano AB in Italy, and Incirlik AB in Turkey.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:14 am

Just what exactly are you smoking?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
Just what exactly are you smoking?

Whatever it is, I want some.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:23 am

When I saw the title, I was thinking of putting 'OU812, the next AerospaceFan', but no. This is ridiculous, while the US does have much military in Germany ( I think we should move it to Poland though, we are more welcome there), it's not for the EUs protection (or to keep Germany in check  Big grin ), its for the purposes of the US, good positioning for the ME ans such.

ASF would not have posted this junk. Now, if you want to say that weve been paying for Canadas defence over the cold war, or that we did actually pay for Europes defense in the cold war, now thats fine.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:27 am

Personally, I think we really have no need maintaining a major military presence in Europe. The Cold War has been over for over 15 years, so the chances of a Russian invasion of Western Europe are pretty remote. The countries in which we still maintain bases in have their own military that can protect them. Other than perhaps a few support units for AMC charters and other military flights to/from Iraq and Afghanistan and medical units to handle wounded personnel sent from the current theaters of operation, there really isn't a need for a large force in Europe.

Not a single European US military facility was slated for closure in the most recent round of BRAC actions, although there is some realignment of troop numbers in Europe and Asia.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting OU812 (Thread starter):

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

I think you're overdue for your meds or you missed your appointment with the little bottle . . . .

We're not protecting Europe any longer . . . those bases are there for strategic reasons and it's been that way for a decade.

How the hell are you going to protect Europe with 35K troops?  laughing 

When is the last time you were at RAF Mildenhall? How about Ramstein? Nothing but transiet bases, that's all - tech stop points for power projection to the 'real' trouble spots on the globe . . .

What ever you're stirring into your koolaide might I recommend halving the dosage before you explode.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
Just what exactly are you smoking?



Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
Whatever it is, I want some.

 checkmark  rotfl 

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
ASF would not have posted this junk.

I wouldn't go THAT far Speedbird . . . .  wink 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
I think we should move it to Poland though, we are more welcome there

Your forces are welcome in Germany. What we don't welcome is idiots like Rumsfeld and all the "either with us or against us" tough talk - we're friends, not suck-ups.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
its for the purposes of the US

 checkmark  and in the best interest of the countries you're in, usually

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
Now, if you want to say that weve been paying for Canadas defence over the cold war, or that we did actually pay for Europes defense in the cold war, now thats fine.

Basically, yes - although defending Western Europe from communism was in the very, very best interest of the US as well a win-win situation, if you will. I'd say you got a good return on your investment, even if that's a brutal oversimplification.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
OU812
Topic Author
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 6):
Your forces are welcome in Germany. What we don't welcome is idiots like Rumsfeld and all the "either with us or against us" tough talk - we're friends, not suck-ups.

I was a Rummy fan at one time. However, it upset me a great deal when he referred to Europe the way he did. That did not help matters at all & was uncalled for.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4763
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:45 am

I've said it before: Given the way literally every single post you make and every single thread you start is an attempt to 'prove' your superiority (be that as an American or as a Republican) over the rest, you must be an incredibly insecure person...
 
OU812
Topic Author
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 10):
I've said it before: Given the way literally every single post you make and every single thread you start is an attempt to 'prove' your superiority

If you take it as superior, sorry. That is not my intentions. It's simply to counter the anti-americanism on here. Most of which is propaganda. Yes, Bush/conservatives are not perfect [go ahead flame me for that comment] , things are tough in Iraq. However, that shouldn't equate to the US being painted as bad as many state the US to be.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 10):
you must be an incredibly insecure person...

You are corect. It's sexual frustration!  sarcastic 

 silly 
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:59 am

I'd say that any idea that US forces are protecting Europe, borders on the absurd.
Formed with the idea that it is some kind of one way street.

It is the British and American interest to have US run installations such as Menwith Hill, where it is and locked into the larger UK CGHQ and US Echelon intel gathering networks.
But the US has access to British facilities beyond the UK, the CGHQ outpost on Cyprus-very close to the Mid East, the vital for the US staging post at Diego Garcia, Ascension Island in the South Atlantic-best known for it's role in the 1982 Falklands War also serves US military interests.
To give obvious examples.

France, yes France, allows US use of it's military facilities in the increasingly vital Horn Of Africa. Even to the point of allowing aircraft and drones to operate from there, troops to be staged there.
They do this without seemingly any significant conditions, without charge, so all those who still like to indulge in childish cracks against France, would do well to note this and other significant Franco-US co-operation, but ignorance has always been the foundation of arrogance.

The staging and hospital facilites in Germany are well placed between CONUS and the Mid East, the US has access to air and naval bases in places also important to Mid East US military deployment, such as in Italy, Turkey and Spain.
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting OU812 (Thread starter):
It is wonderful to see the US provide so much for needy countries, as well as aid the security of our brother the EU!

Hey word to the wise... no self respecting person uses GlobalSecurity as a source on military issues. They're notoriously inaccurate or flat out wrong on a lot of information they provide.

There are far better, and far more trustworthy sites, if you want - I can give a few of the links to you?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
Just what exactly are you smoking?

The question isn't what he is SMOKING, but what is he DRINKING? And the answer is - years and years of KoolAid.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
ASF would not have posted this junk.

You might be correct... at least AerospaceFan would have made his own argument, instead of letting some other author's article make his case for him.

AerospaceFan, as annoying as he can be, can at least formulate his own intelligent arguments. OU812 simply cuts&pastes other people's articles without even making his own argument. It's intellectually lazy.


Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
I think we really have no need maintaining a major military presence in Europe.

 checkmark 

What OU812 fails to realize is just how huge of a withdrawal the military has made from Europe. Just about every major component of the "Big Red One" has been taken out of Germany. The USAF's presence in Europe is a shadow of its former self. USN European port calls are a fraction of what they were during the 1980s.

Our mission in Europe was a success - deter (and defend if need be) a Soviet invasion.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
When is the last time you were at RAF Mildenhall? How about Ramstein? Nothing but transiet bases, that's all - tech stop points for power projection to the 'real' trouble spots on the globe . . .

Bingo.

I see retirement hasn't kept you out of the loop. Those bases are 1/10 the size and power of their Cold War days. They're refueling/resting spots for troops headed to more urgent places.

--------------------------------------------


OU812, it's clear you were only trying to stir the pot, by suggesting Europe should be thankful for America "defending them."

However, instead of trying to start a flame-war.... why don't you thank our European allies for their support in Afghanistan? Germans, French, English, Canadians, Dutch, and many more who are supporting our troops in the 'Stan. Why don't you thank French and German - you know, those evil socialists nations - for their military forces aiding and protecting American troops, in the effort to stabilize Afghanistan.

See people like you, is what is hurting the US. When you assume the attitude that the world OWES the United States something, and that the world should be eternally grateful for everything the US does for them... you undercut everything we've achieved.

Because, it sounds corny, but we're all in this together. And attitudes like yours, does nothing but piss our allies off. And it perpetuates the image of the ignorant, arrogant American.

Wake up, OU812, wake up.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
Because, it sounds corny, but we're all in this together. And attitudes like yours, does nothing but piss our allies off. And it perpetuates the image of the ignorant, arrogant American.

Wake up, OU812, wake up.

Well said. It is really sad that the only arguments he CAN come up with are old rehashed bullshit topics that only piss off BOTH sides of the table. People IGNORE him. Please, we will all be so much better off, just let him have an American777 or Shinkai like melt down so we can get a good chuckle out of it.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
Because, it sounds corny, but we're all in this together. And attitudes like yours, does nothing but piss our allies off. And it perpetuates the image of the ignorant, arrogant American.

 checkmark  chapeau
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
OU812
Topic Author
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:25 am

Geez guys lighten up.  cheerful 

I am simply trying to show how the US & its military aid the world. Something I feel ,as of lately is over looked. Feel free to share your knowledge & point of view without blowing a gasket!
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 20):
how the US & its military aid the world

I'm sorry, where exactly did you demonstrate this?
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Derico
Posts: 4206
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:29 am

I'm just glad I don't owe my 'freedom' to anyone. That way I don't have to be saying thanks every now and then, woudn't be humble enough  Wink
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7174
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 20):
I am simply trying to show how the US & its military aid the world.

Mmmhmm.. Which is why you thread is titled "Americas Military Protects Europe" and its why your "source" is basically saying Europe is screwed without us... I gotcha.. So Europe and the Us is the world.. So my teachers got it wrong...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 20):
I am simply trying to show how the US & its military aid the world.

FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
OU812
Topic Author
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 24):
ANCFlyer

lol

 blush 
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 25):
lol

You still don't get it do you? We are not laughing with you....
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 12):
the anti-americanism on here

anti-americanism on here ??  scratchchin  never seen anything thelike
- suppose you suffer of bouts of persecution-mania  duck 
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 20):

I am simply trying to show how the US & its military aid the world.

No, you're not. According to your thread title you're trying to show how "America's Military Still Protects Europe!" And while that venture is not going very well, you're trying for expressions of gratitude from the "protected Europeans".

Quoting OU812 (Reply 12):
It's simply to counter the anti-americanism on here.

I don't like the term anti-americanism. Reason #1: Does anyone realize that while we criticize and talk trash about lots of countries, only one of those countries has a term for it? The french don't talk about anti-franceism.
Reason #2: Just because we disagree with certain American policies or, well, wars, we are dubbed as anti-american. Once again there's that expectation that we will all just fall into line with the US, and if we don't, we're anti-american. With you or against you. I don't like many policies of the government of the US. I'll continue to criticize the US when I feel like it. However, I do like the USA, and I like it's citizens. So what does that make me? Anti-american? Anyway, you are all free to criticize Sweden, and I will respond without calling you anti-swedish.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 27):
persecution-mania

Paranoia's the word.  Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
OU812
Topic Author
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:19 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:02 am

Doona,
You may be misunderstanding me here. When I used the word here, I was referring to certain A-nett threads, not governments nor was I referring to other political topics like the ones you suggested.

Quoting Doona (Reply 28):
Quoting OU812 (Reply 12):
It's simply to counter the anti-americanism on here.
 
zanl188
Posts: 3434
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
Those bases are 1/10 the size and power of their Cold War days.

You might want to check that again. Ramstein lost it's fighter wing, but gained a C-130 Wing from Rhein-Main. The AMC enroute located at Ramstein is bigger than it ever was, again due to the closing of Rhein-Main. A lot of MILCON dollars and German euros/marks have been poured into infrastructure at Ramstein. So to say it's 1/10 it's old size is a bit of a stretch -- I'd say they broke even. Now if you're really trying to say that K-Town has a smaller U.S. presence I'd be inclined to agree.... K-Town & Ramstein are 2 different things though...
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting OU812 (Reply 30):

So how does the anti-americanism manifest itself here on a.net, if not in the form of criticism? And if it is not in a political context, how the hell can you even call it anti-americanism? In any case, I don't believe that very many a.netters truly hate America and all it stands for. And those who do, have a right to do so.

And it's not like your doing anything to change their opinions or disprove their prejudices...

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
However, instead of trying to start a flame-war.... why don't you thank our European allies for their support in Afghanistan? Germans, French, English, Canadians, Dutch, and many more who are supporting our troops in the 'Stan. Why don't you thank French and German - you know, those evil socialists nations - for their military forces aiding and protecting American troops, in the effort to stabilize Afghanistan.

See people like you, is what is hurting the US. When you assume the attitude that the world OWES the United States something, and that the world should be eternally grateful for everything the US does for them... you undercut everything we've achieved.

Excellent reply!   
You're welcome in more than just one sense, and thank you in return!

It's not that OU's attitude was really limited to americans - it's been an age-old problem everywhere, to varying degrees (yeah, especially in Germany at one time as well!    ).

One important aspect some people keep missing all the time: The more you're patting your own back, the more unlikely it becomes that other people make the effort of complimenting you.

There is a lot to like and to love about the USA and their inhabitants, independent of transient political disputes. But it sometimes takes a bit of openness and perspective like UH's above to create an opportunity for actual praise and appreciation where it's due.

Such as this one! 

[Edited 2006-12-17 19:20:20]
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: America's Military Still Protects Europe!

Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 30):
You might want to check that again. Ramstein lost it's fighter wing, but gained a C-130 Wing from Rhein-Main. The AMC enroute located at Ramstein is bigger than it ever was, again due to the closing of Rhein-Main. A lot of MILCON dollars and German euros/marks have been poured into infrastructure at Ramstein. So to say it's 1/10 it's old size is a bit of a stretch -- I'd say they broke even. Now if you're really trying to say that K-Town has a smaller U.S. presence I'd be inclined to agree.... K-Town & Ramstein are 2 different things though...

I think he's talking about the entire EUCOM being much smaller than it was in say 1985. . . . in that light, he's correct. That's how I read his reply anyway.

Nothing in the EUCOM is remotely similar in mission or size from the time of the Cold War, that's a given. But even post Cold War, with few exceptions (Ramstein being one of course - because of it's mission), the US military footprint in Europe as a whole continues to shrink.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A332DTW, jpetekyxmd80, PacificBeach88, Yahoo [Bot] and 14 guests