bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:13 am

Apparently Castro is taking a turn for the worse. The Cuban govt has chartered a flight from Spain with equpment and a surgeon who specializes in intestinal problems.

Let's hope this is the beginning of the end of many years of repression for the Cuban people.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:01 am

Apparently he put his brother in control who is worse then he is. If that is t he case then the repression for the Cuban people is only about to begin.
 
san747
Posts: 4344
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 1):
Apparently he put his brother in control who is worse then he is.

That's what I've heard as well... But maybe the US can reach to him and provide incentives to more democratize Cuba? The US should view this as an oppurtunity.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:17 am

[quote=San747,reply=2]The US should view this as an oppurtunity.

They should, but the US has followed the same failed policy with Cuba for 45 years, doubt it will change anytime soon.
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:20 am

Why is Castro's downturn a surprise. I've been expecting it for half a year. Intestinal problems x 6 months + no return to work = cancer - life.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Slovacek747
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:10 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:44 am

I sure hope hes gonna be a gonner soon. bastard doesn't deserve the dirt he walks on.
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:48 am

If 'ol Fidel bites the proverbial bullet I won't lose any sleep. I might just raise a cold one to celebrate the occasion.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
Georgetown
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:50 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:59 am

What will be interesting to see unfold is the relativly new dynamic of having Chavez in power in nearby Venezuela. The question becomes (very very broadly speaking) which way does Cuba swing? Will Chavez be able to throw enough weight around to keep Cuba facing the socialist direction, or will years of economic and political oppression be enough to cause a sizeable democratic sway in the population. I think some of the main considerations here (and again, I'm speaking very broadly) are the influence of the US in the near term (and specifically the large and fairly prosperous Cuban community in the US), the influence of Raul Castro (is he a political heavy or demogogueic lightweight), the Chavez situation, and finally and most importantly, the magnitude of desire of the Cuban people.

It'll be fascinating, that's for sure.
Let's go Hoyas!
 
photopilot
Posts: 3061
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 2):
The US should view this as an oppurtunity.

Yup, absolutely agree. The USA should take the opportunity to BUTT THE HECK OUT of other countries affairs. That would be a good first start.

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
I sure hope hes gonna be a gonner soon. bastard doesn't deserve the dirt he walks on.

At your age, and being an American resident, I wonder on what factual basis you make this statement? Have you been to Cuba? Have you lived in a Havana apartment like I have? Do you have any very close Cuban friends living in Cuba? No to all the above. Well then IMHO you don't know what you're really talking about.
 
Georgetown
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:50 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8):
At your age, and being an American resident, I wonder on what factual basis you make this statement? Have you been to Cuba? Have you lived in a Havana apartment like I have? Do you have any very close Cuban friends living in Cuba? No to all the above. Well then IMHO you don't know what you're really talking about.

Just gonna jump in in his defense for a minute (been to Cuba plenty of times in a prior job, have very close Cuban friends, etc etc). I'm just curious - and I don't mean this sarcastically at all - what you feel the benefit of having Castro in power has been over the course of the last half century?
Let's go Hoyas!
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5421
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8):
IMHO you don't know what you're really talking about

Just because he's not running around in Che Guevara t-shirt he can't have an opinion?
I know it might be considered "cool" and "trendy" and "in" to be pro-Castro in your comfy Canadian place enjoying all the freedoms, democracy and rights people in Cuba cannot enjoy, but believe me playing "useful idiot" and defending thug and dictator like Castro really does NOT help the Cuban people.
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:48 am

Pinochet and Castro dead in the same year? One can hope...

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8):
Yup, absolutely agree. The USA should take the opportunity to BUTT THE HECK OUT of other countries affairs. That would be a good first start.

That's fine with me. Next time there's a crisis somewhere, we'll just ask the almight powerful Canadian military to step in and solve the problem. Let some other country spend their tax revenue, I'm tired of seeing mine go to waste.
 
tootallsd
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:02 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
[quote=San747,reply=2]The US should view this as an oppurtunity.

They should, but the US has followed the same failed policy with Cuba for 45 years, doubt it will change anytime soon.

Amen to that AirCop. We should have been talking to Castro and the Cuban people for a long time. Just like we should be talking to the younger population in Iran. But a testosterone driven foreign policy precludes such wisdon.
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:42 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 1):
Apparently he put his brother in control who is worse then he is. If that is t he case then the repression for the Cuban people is only about to begin.

Actually, there have been some indications lately that Raul may be looking at opening things up a bit. He seems to rather admire the way the Chinese have liberalized their economy. Such a change would certainly not represent true freedom for the Cuban people but would be a large step forward from where they are now.

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 6):
If 'ol Fidel bites the proverbial bullet I won't lose any sleep. I might just raise a cold one to celebrate the occasion.

 checkmark 

I was surprised earlier tonight when talking to a friend from Puerto Rico that the people in PR are very apprehensive about a free Cuba. According to him, there is a fear that it would be terrible for their economy. Personally, I think it would be the exact opposite but who knows?

Either way, he'll be OK as he's finishing a surgical residency and then he belongs to the US Army for 7 years.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting N174UA (Reply 11):
Pinochet and Castro dead in the same year? One can hope...

I thought the same thing, but I think we will run out of days to see both of them gone in the same year. I generally do not wish anyone's death, but with these characters I decided to make an exception.

regards  Smile
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:48 pm

Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 12):
Just like we should be talking to the younger population in Iran.

And just how much political power does the younger generation hold in Iran? And would you be willing to throw the financial support required to achieve their aims, or should the US butt out of Iran as well?
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8):

I've been there, and I have to say, that of all the Caribbean islands that I've been to it is far and away my least favorite. I found there was nothing to buy, sure the beer was good, but I can get that just about anywhere, Puerto Rico has much more to do, especially at night, in my opinion.

And I doubt that the US will butt into anything if Fidel dies, but I bet it would be in Cuba's best interests to make nice with the US, trade and economic advantages would be good. I'm sure that the US can keep on living just fine without Cuba though.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5421
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:08 pm

Quoting Bhmbaglock (Thread starter):
The Cuban govt has chartered a flight from Spain with equpment and a surgeon who specializes in intestinal problems.

Interesting. Since Cuban health system is supposed to be so great, how come it is not good enough for Fidel?
Instead of being hypocrite he should "harvest the fruits" of his failed policies until the bitter end, shouldn't he?
 
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 13):
According to him, there is a fear that it would be terrible for their economy. Personally, I think it would be the exact opposite but who knows?

I guess tourists who now go to Puerto Rico might go to Cuba instead. If nothing else, it's increased competition, and I'm sure many Americans will go to Cuba simply because now they can.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 18):
I guess tourists who now go to Puerto Rico might go to Cuba instead. If nothing else, it's increased competition, and I'm sure many Americans will go to Cuba simply because now they can.

Actually, he was more worried about their manufacturing economy, companies like Bacardi, etc. that were driven out of Cuba when their assets were "nationalized". Personally, I think it would take quite a while for these companies to be comfortable enough to invest in Cuba again without fear of losing their investment. That is unless Cuba were to give them their property back but I don't see that happening even though it would be the smartest thing they could do long run.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting Bhmbaglock (Thread starter):
Let's hope this is the beginning of the end of many years of repression for the Cuban people.

And Miamians as well.
This space intentionally left blank
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:07 pm

While I also would love to see Fidel go for good, we have to see the big picture. If Fidel dies, his brother Raúl will likely still be in power. If it is true that Raúl is worse than Fidel, then things will take a turn for the worse, unless Raúl decides to keep things the same like his brother did. But if Raúl falls, who will become the leader? Will then the US sanctions be dropped or will a new revolution happen, perhaps even a US backed one to convert Cuba into a democratic state? What will be of their health and education system (remember that Cuba has one of the, if not the lowest illiteracy percentage in the region) and also of their economy in general?

Bottom line, if Fidel dies, there will be even more question marks than now. Make no mistake, if Fidel dies, I'll certainly not cry over his death because he was a brutal dictator, but as I said, we need to look at the big picture. Changes in a country are always easier said than done, and Cuba is certainly no exception. It's just not that easy.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 21):
Changes in a country are always easier said than done, and Cuba is certainly no exception. It's just not that easy.

It might not be that easy, but it could certainly be a great start. biggrin 
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:22 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 22):
It might not be that easy, but it could certainly be a great start.

If it is a change for good, then I fully agree.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:22 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8):
At your age, and being an American resident, I wonder on what factual basis you make this statement? Have you been to Cuba? Have you lived in a Havana apartment like I have? Do you have any very close Cuban friends living in Cuba? No to all the above. Well then IMHO you don't know what you're really talking about.

Tell that to the thousands of Cuban refugees in Miami. Let me know how it goes if you live. I'll buy you a Coke of your Che Guevara shirt isn't ripped up either. He's as bad, if not worse, than Pinochet. You have it tough though. Castro can just have those who don't share his views killed...

You do realize what you said could also have been said about Poland in 1980. Just because you see smiling faces, doesn't mean they're happy with the state of their nation. The trains ran on time under that bastard Jaruselski. Under Gomulka too. Christmas of '81 was an interesting one there indeed.  Yeah sure

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:25 pm

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 24):
Just because you see smiling faces, doesn't mean they're happy with the state of their nation.

You might actually claim that those smiles 'could' be real, after all, a good portion of the people in Cuba might not realize how much better their lives could be under a different political system.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 25):
You might actually claim that those smiles 'could' be real, after all, a good portion of the people in Cuba might not realize how much better their lives could be under a different political system.

 checkmark 

Many people don't even know of such things. We're talking about a totalitarian regime and many people don't even have the same media access as we do. This is something dictactors can capitalise on by not just withholding certain information but also for restricting access to foreign and independent TV broadcasts. In Cuba, most people only have access to news media if they're state controlled (e.g. the state newspaper Granma and state TV and radio stations, which on many occasions broadcast speeches from Fidel, Raúl or other government officials in their entirety). The same applies for any totalitarian regime.

That vast majority only minds their own business because they're not aware of things because of this lack of media access. In the case of Cubans, only insurgents and exiles (not just those in Miami but also those everywhere in the World) know of what's really going on and how people are oppressed by their regime.
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 25):

You might actually claim that those smiles 'could' be real, after all, a good portion of the people in Cuba might not realize how much better their lives could be under a different political system.

Indeed. I'd hate to see the looks on those faces when the truth of what could be hits them.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:39 pm

Why are US citezens so mortally afraid of any system of government that is not their own. Don't say because it's evil. I'm looking for a calm and factual statement, because I don't get it. If someone could explain you're views logicly I'd be much obliged. Here or PM. ( please back it up with facts, "Better" is a matter of opinion)

Wanting to get this question settled, once and for all:
~YYZ
DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:45 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 28):
Why are US citezens so mortally afraid of any system of government that is not their own.

Is not necessarily all US citizens (BTW, I am naturalized). But instead of trying to go into all the gory details, it will be better asked as to why do most of the positive immigration countries have a similar system to the US? There is no net migration to any country that has a hint of communism, and w/o having to ask the question why, it can be safely assumed that it is for a pretty good reason.
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:50 pm

I assume nothing. I am coming at this from an academic point of view. Just saying it is a good reason is not a reason. I want to know why. I've studied some pretty dark times in US history, (as in the senate committee on unamerican activites), and want to know where and why this fear came from. Things are never black and white.

~YYZ
DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:52 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 28):
Why are US citezens so mortally afraid of any system of government that is not their own. Don't say because it's evil. I'm looking for a calm and factual statement, because I don't get it. If someone could explain you're views logicly I'd be much obliged. Here or PM. ( please back it up with facts, "Better" is a matter of opinion)

My family experienced such a government behind the Iron Curtain. Evil, actually is a legit answer in this case. The experiences of those non-US citizens that suffered under these regimes is relayed to US citizens.

The whole system was based on oppression in the name of a false equality of all. Anyone with a differing opinion was punished. There was only one party you could be a member of...otherwise you were a "counter-revolutionary" (no one in Poland was looking for a fucking revolution to begin with!). Dissidents paid with their livelihoods, freedom, families, citizenship, and even their lives.

While there are Americans who suffer from the symptom of "ours is always better than yours", this system, as well as many of the free systems in this world, particularly in Europe and in Canada, are where people are better off.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
tsaord
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:46 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8):
Yup, absolutely agree. The USA should take the opportunity to BUTT THE HECK OUT of other countries affairs. That would be a good first start

I agree. Whatever Direction Cuba goes should Fidel fall should be up to its people and government. Why does the US government feel that anything other than a democracy is evil?
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:16 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 20):

And Miamians as well.

Yeah...poor repressed Miamians! Those Cubans that the U.S. government allows to stay in Miami are really degrading their quality of life...

This thread is just bristling with brilliance...
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:21 pm

Quoting N174UA (Reply 11):
we'll just ask the almight powerful Canadian military to step in and solve the problem.

As we're currently doing in Southern Afghanistan while other NATO allies stand on the sidelines.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:36 pm

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 32):
Why does the US government feel that anything other than a democracy is evil?

Is is not just the US, nor the Western World, there are plenty of people who have lived in other political systems who feel that any other political system is inherently evil.

Here is a better question? Why does it take Westerners WHO HAVE NEVER LIVED UNDER COMMUNISM OR IN A THIRD WOLRLD COUNTRY to defend 'other' systems? Why do you think there are plenty of people flocking to the US, including Cubans?

You can question all you want and wonder aloud, but the overwhelming evidence points to the fact that democracy is considered by many to be a far superior system.
 
bhmbaglock
Posts: 2489
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:51 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 28):
Why are US citezens so mortally afraid of any system of government that is not their own. Don't say because it's evil. I'm looking for a calm and factual statement, because I don't get it. If someone could explain you're views logicly I'd be much obliged. Here or PM. ( please back it up with facts, "Better" is a matter of opinion)

Have you ever sat down and really talked with somebody who lived under a communist regime? I've done this many times with people from a number of different countries and it's an eye opener. I have a good friend who was in the Soviet Army and had to actually steal food to survive because their economy was so bad they couldn't even feed their military. I'd call that evil. The environmental problems left by various communist Eastern European regimes is also inherently "evil" in my book. However, the true "evil" of these regimes was the one party despotism they impose on their people. With no checks and balances in government extreme and horribly unjust actions up to and including genocide are enabled.

We're not really afraid of communism, it will fail of its own accord in due time if alternates are freely available. It's repressive totalitarian regimes we don't want to see.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 30):
I assume nothing. I am coming at this from an academic point of view. Just saying it is a good reason is not a reason. I want to know why. I've studied some pretty dark times in US history, (as in the senate committee on unamerican activites), and want to know where and why this fear came from. Things are never black and white.[/quot

There is no doubt that McCarthy and company were horrible and that this was not the US' most proud time. However, if the Cuban government could come down to that level of "repression" then I don't think most people would be as worked up about them as they are now. Remember, as bad as Joe and his pals were, they were elected in free elections and the people were truly free to run them out in the next election as well. This is a key difference.

[quote=Tsaord,reply=32]I agree. Whatever Direction Cuba goes should Fidel fall should be up to its people and government. Why does the US government feel that anything other than a democracy is evil?

Largely because they are elected by people who believe this. The empirical evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of this conclusion as well. My personal opinion though is that if Cuba opened up the political process to multiple parties and truly removed all reprisals/pressure against the opposition then they could elect a communist government if they really wanted it. Care to lay odds on the result? There's a reason communist governments(with a few exceptions, i.e. Nicaragua under the Sandinistas - although the recent warpage of the presidential election laws there shows they have learned and won't make that mistake again) don't allow a free political process.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 33):
This thread is just bristling with brilliance...

It was doing pretty good til you came and crapped on it. I think you're missing the point that Cubans in Miami are not repressed. That's the basic reason they risk their lives in great numbers to get there.

If you really think Castro and company are doing so good, I would suggest you go give it a try for a year or two.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 21):
While I also would love to see Fidel go for good, we have to see the big picture. If Fidel dies, his brother Raúl will likely still be in power. If it is true that Raúl is worse than Fidel, then things will take a turn for the worse, unless Raúl decides to keep things the same like his brother did. But if Raúl falls, who will become the leader? Will then the US sanctions be dropped or will a new revolution happen, perhaps even a US backed one to convert Cuba into a democratic state? What will be of their health and education system (remember that Cuba has one of the, if not the lowest illiteracy percentage in the region) and also of their economy in general?

Bottom line, if Fidel dies, there will be even more question marks than now. Make no mistake, if Fidel dies, I'll certainly not cry over his death because he was a brutal dictator, but as I said, we need to look at the big picture. Changes in a country are always easier said than done, and Cuba is certainly no exception. It's just not that easy.

Raul has been the head of the Military, the Police, and 2nd to Fidel in the Party. He has also been in charge of the treatment of political prisioners and other repressive political policies. That includes the murder of 1000's, torture, and repression of the entirety of Cuba. That has to change. There are some people in line after Raul, so I suspect a easy transition. Once Fidel and Raul are gone, the cult of personality there will die. One of the first things a new ruler will have to do is to release non-violent political prisoners.
The USA as to a post-Castros Cuba will be difficult situation. Cuba was a territory of the USA as a result of the Spanish American War in the late 1890's to the mid-1920's. Until the Cuban Revolution led by Castro in the late 1950's, the USA and it's companies controlled the economy in Cuba as well as supporting a series of horrible and corrupt dictators that triggered the Revolution. You have over a Century of hate for the USA Government and companies, made worse under Castro. While exiles or their descendants will want to take over Cuba, that will have to be carefully controlled. The USA government will want a government that will be friendly to it, but it must also be one that will be good for it's people in the long run, not just be exploited. Let us hope that the Castro brothers pass away soon and a new and better Cuba for all will develop.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 1):
he put his brother in control who is worse then he is.

Raul Castro apparently has lead the country for some time now. And looks like being competent and up to the job. Bad is that he is a staunch communist. But also many of the present day leaders of Eastern Europe / ex Soviet Union were staunch communists in the past
-

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 5):
bastard doesn't deserve the dirt he walks on.

this is a bit of rethoric demagoguery. He did and had his mistakes. But he did a lot for education and healthcare and other such things. And he ended the years of corruption and oppression and feudalism of the Battista dictatorship. OK the communist rule which followed was not democratic either, but in comparison to the Battista times a step UP nevertheless.
-

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 17):
Since Cuban health system is supposed to be so great, how come it is not good enough for Fidel?

In case of ailing dictators, those in charge always start roaming the planet for even more advanced gears ! I doubt that this Spanish "health system" stuff will really help
-

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 13):
when talking to a friend from Puerto Rico that the people in PR are very apprehensive about a free Cuba. According to him, there is a fear that it would be terrible for their economy. Personally, I think it would be the exact opposite but who knows?

-
I don't know, but I think the Puerto Ricans expect a capitalist Cuba (whether free or not) to attract US investments and thereby reducing US investments on Puerto Rico. And the air-traffic position taken up to now by San Juan / Puerto Rico may well be taken over by Havanna fairly swiflty. So that I have some understanding for their fears.
-

[Edited 2006-12-26 16:16:20]
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 29):
immigration

-
Alright, but I hardly have to tell you that a considerable part of all emigration/immigration in the world is NOT due to politics but due to economic realities
-

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 35):
Why do you think there are plenty of people flocking to the US, including Cubans?

-
well, let's twist your question a bit. Is it really US democracy which leads so many people "flocking" to the USA ? or rather the economic and academic opportunities ?
-

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 37):
Raul has been the head of the Military, the Police, and 2nd to Fidel in the Party. He has also been in charge of the treatment of political prisioners and other repressive political policies. That includes the murder of 1000's, torture, and repression of the entirety of Cuba. That has to change. There are some people in line after Raul, so I suspect a easy transition.

-
while the first part of your statement unfortunately is correct, the second is doubtful. I do NOT expect the transition to be easy. The "Nomenklatura", in Communist regimes even stronger than in "classic" dictatorships, will try to stay on and to save their power. The so-called "liberals" know exactly well that they will lose power as soon as democracy is put in place. The "apparatchiks" will mobilize all their force to maintain their rule.
-
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 39):
Alright, but I hardly have to tell you that a considerable part of all emigration/immigration in the world is NOT due to politics but due to economic realities

They go well together, don't they? It is interesting to note that the freer the country becomes, a better economy soon follows.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 33):
Those Cubans that the U.S. government allows to stay in Miami are really degrading their quality of life...

This thread is just bristling with brilliance...

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Says the BOY from Washington state. If you had so much as a clue you'd REALIZE that I was talking about the people like me who lived in Miami before it was invaded.

"brilliance"  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
This space intentionally left blank
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:42 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 40):
They go well together, don't they? It is interesting to note that the freer the country becomes, a better economy soon follows.

YES on both counts. At least generally. I in the Pinochet years discussed things with a businessman active in Santiago, who insisted that the economy under Pinochet made big advances, even attracting foreigners into Chile. And democracy in many places unfortunately did NOT result in a better economy.
-

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 41):
who lived in Miami before it was invaded.

ohhh! "invaded" sounds harsh. But true, on visit in Miami some years ago, I felt I should have learnt a bit more Spanish before visiting the place. But don't you think that in reality, the Cuban population in Miami will GROW after the fall of the Castro/post-Fidel regime ?
-
 
Jalto27R
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Is This It For Castro?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:57 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 8):
Do you have any very close Cuban friends living in Cuba?

Does Miami count? Those people must love Cuba so much they wanted to spread it's wonderful culture to America, right?!  Silly

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 28):
Why are US citezens so mortally afraid of any system of government that is not their own. Don't say because it's evil. I'm looking for a calm and factual statement, because I don't get it. If someone could explain you're views logicly I'd be much obliged. Here or PM. ( please back it up with facts, "Better" is a matter of opinion)

Wanting to get this question settled, once and for all:
~YYZ

Well..not all US "citezens" do. It's the beauty of democracy.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], kngkyle, N867DA and 44 guests