slz396
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Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:22 am

on Jan 1st 2007, the former Yugoslav republic of Slovenia has become the 13th country to introduce the euro as its official currency.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/31/news...pdate.reut/?postversion=2006123121
 
pelican
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:48 am

Welcome...




pelican
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 1):
Welcome...

Misery loves company...  duck   Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
pelican
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency T

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 2):
Misery loves company...

So where is your company?

pelican

[Edited 2007-01-01 21:04:57]
 
Klaus
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 2):
Misery loves company...  

What "misery", outside of your wishful thinking? Big grin
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
What "misery", outside of your wishful thinking?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2524244,00.html

Loads of articles like this one around, lest you point it up as just one newspaper.
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Klaus
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:27 am

The € is stable (which does actually bother some, as evidenced by the Time article), it is by now the #1 cash currency worldwide and is continually gaining ground as a reserve currency while the € zone is remarkably stable and solid under difficult circumstances.

Yeah. Doom and Gloom all around for sure! Big grin
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
Yeah. Doom and Gloom all around for sure!

Absolutely. It's only people who are unhappy, and who gives a stuff about them?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
pelican
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 7):

Absolutely. It's only people who are unhappy,

And French and Italian politicians...


pelican
 
Matt27
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting Slz396 (Thread starter):
Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Good for them.  Smile

I wish the Swedish people had chosen to introduce the Euro as well...
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:54 am

Hey, we're the biggest fans, with 75% of the population believing that it has been "advantageous overall", and 90% think in euro.
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency T

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:34 am

Happy we still have the good ol' Swiss Franc  bigthumbsup 
 
rammstein
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency T

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 7):
Absolutely. It's only people who are unhappy, and who gives a stuff about them?

People are always unhappy about anything. Not a big news that people are particularly uneducated about economics (and I'm talking about macroeconomics, not the daily grocery shopping). Fortunately economists are ruling the European Central Bank, not the common people.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 8):
And French and Italian politicians...

Unfortunately a lot of Italian politicians who like to blame someone else for their own faults are completely uneducated, if not idiots.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
The € is stable (which does actually bother some, as evidenced by the Time article), it is by now the #1 cash currency worldwide and is continually gaining ground as a reserve currency while the € zone is remarkably stable and solid under difficult circumstances.

True, these are the facts but, again, "normal people" would not be able to understand the involvement of this.

Edit: P.S: Welcome to Slovenia

[Edited 2007-01-01 22:40:16]

[Edited 2007-01-01 22:40:58]
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Klaus
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 12):
P.S: Welcome to Slovenia

Indeed: You're very much welcome!  wave 
 
NoUFO
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency T

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 7):
Absolutely. It's only people who are unhappy, and who gives a stuff about them?

I'm only unhappy with the design and wish they had accepted Roger Pfund's proposal. Here's the €100 bill:


Source: http://www.admirabledesign.com/Serie-No39

No pun intended, btw. The guy's name is indeed Pfund (German for Pound). Big grin

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 12):
Welcome to Slovenia

But I'm still in Berlin.  Confused
Oh well ... never mind ...
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aloges
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
Loads of articles like this one around, lest you point it up as just one newspaper.

First time I hear about €urophobia in a long time... well, actually I do know someone who still refers to the German Mark all the time, but he's 87 and my grandfather. I don't think he's representative.  Wink

Quoting Pelican (Reply 1):
Welcome

 checkmark 
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
andaman
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:44 am

The new Slovenian Euro coins were mint in Finland, the Mint of Finland -company didn't want to tell how 234 million coins were transfered to Slovenia,
have there been heavy gargo traffic lately from HEL to LJU?  Smile

By the way, have you noticed how the figure of Finland and Sweden on 2 Euro coin look like a male body part.. or is it just me?  Silly



...in future that will change though, the next generation Euro coins will have a improved map of Europe, with Norway too.
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aloges
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 16):
the next generation Euro coins will have a improved map of Europe, with Norway too.

Alas, not if the Norwegians have a say in it.  duck 
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
andaman
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 17):

Alas, not if the Norwegians have a say in it.

The map of Europe on the future Euro coins will show the whole Europe, also outside the Euro zone.
The new Slovenian coins show Norway already.

[Edited 2007-01-02 01:21:09]
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aloges
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 18):
The map of Europe on the future Euro coins will show the whole Europe, also outside the Euro zone.

Interesting, I didn't know that. It makes sense, though - there's no need to depict an amputated version of the continent.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency T

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 18):
The map of Europe on the future Euro coins will show the whole Europe

Not interily, there'll still be that little hole in the heart of the continent Big grin
 
andaman
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 19):

Interesting, I didn't know that. It makes sense, though - there's no need to depict an amputated version of the continent.

Yes that amputated map looks bit odd.
Malta will be the next Euro-country 2008, after that there will be a few years break it seems.

Unfortunately only two countries, Finland and Netherlands, have chosen not use the smallest 1 & 2 cent coins. Finland have never had those and Netherlands made the same decision 2004. I don't know why they have to exist at all, they are simply annoying.
Small coins have never been popular in Finland and Finns use more cards than others in Europe - like taxi drivers prefer cards here.
Of course the 1 & 2 cent coins from other Euro countries are accepted in Finland - if you just have atleast 5 cents.

[Edited 2007-01-02 02:00:12]
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andaman
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 20):

Not interily, there'll still be that little hole in the heart of the continent

What is the general attitude in Switzerland, can you see your country joining the EU and Euro system?

By the way, can't thank Switzerland enough for Fazer-chokolate, which arrived Finland some 150y ago with the Fazer family  Smile Once again, that chokolate made my Xmas very sweet. Worth of every Euro!

Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
NoUFO
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:29 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 18):
The map of Europe on the future Euro coins will show the whole Europe, also outside the Euro zone.

Why did they always show Great Britain then?
I support the right to arm bears
 
aloges
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 22):
What is the general attitude in Switzerland, can you see your country joining the EU and Euro system?

I second that question! Swiss national pride has always appeared very strong to me, is there a sentiment to combine that with the advantages of full integration in the EU?

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 23):
Why did they always show Great Britain then?

Being EU members, that kind of thing.  Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
andaman
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 23):

Why did they always show Great Britain then?

Actually the original map on Euro coins shows the EU members that time, I used the wrong term.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 22):

What is the general attitude in Switzerland, can you see your country joining the EU and Euro system?



Quoting Aloges (Reply 24):
I second that question! Swiss national pride has always appeared very strong to me, is there a sentiment to combine that with the advantages of full integration in the EU?

Not for now or the foreseeable future. With the latest bilaterals and the soon to come Schengen entry, we'll be well off without joining the EU. And when it comes down to the population's attitude towards the EU, I'd say it is even more contra-EU than it was when the votings wether to join the EU or not happened. People realise that, if we join the EU in our current situation, the advantages to us Swiss citizens will be limited, and wouldn't justify all the money (primarely) and other goods, which will be "given" to the EU.

Quoting Andaman (Reply 22):

By the way, can't thank Switzerland enough for Fazer-chokolate, which arrived Finland some 150y ago with the Fazer family Smile Once again, that chokolate made my Xmas very sweet. Worth of every Euro!

Yeah, aint Fazer chocolate lovely? I actually think it's far superior to any Chocolate produced by any Swiss Chocolate factories  Silly
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:14 pm

Meanwhile, any idea on when the rest of the EU members will switch to the Euro? I guess we can rule the UK and Sweden out for now. But how about the others?

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
traveler_7
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:07 pm

Most probably Estonia will introduce €in 2008 or 2009
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency T

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:29 pm

Welcome Slovenia.  Smile

For the collectors here, the new Slovanian euro coins:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenian_euro_coins

The design of some of the other coming euro countries are also shown there.
E.g. Estonia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_euro_coins


Axel

[Edited 2007-01-02 10:46:40]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
slz396
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:33 pm

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 27):
any idea on when the rest of the EU members will switch to the Euro? I guess we can rule the UK and Sweden out for now. But how about the others?

The EU treathy from 1992 governing membership is quite clear on this matter: ALL EU members (*) MUST adopt the euro is their currency as soon as they meet all economic criteria.

(*) only two members at that time, the UK and Denmark, negotiated an opt out clause and has the choice NOT to introduce the euro.

The people in Sweden have rejected the introduction of the euro in a referendum with a narrow margin too, but according to the letter of the Maastricht treathy, Sweden is in full violation of the EU treathy and could be punished or at worst even excluded from the EU for not sticking to the pre-set rules. Obviously this is not going to happen, but it was a stupid thing from the Swedish government to hold a referendum on this matter, since the Swedes knew that upon accepting EU membership in 1995 they were supposed to automatically also give up their own currency in 2002 as set in the accession rules.

Anyhow, I do not expect any of the newly jointed members to be as reluctant nor their governments so reckless as to hold a popular vote on this and depending on how soon they meet all criteria for accession, the euro will the the official currency on the entire continent, but for some small isolated and remote places (a bit like that Asterix' village really)  

[Edited 2007-01-02 10:39:04]
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 30):
The EU treathy from 1992 governing membership is quite clear on this matter: ALL EU members (*) MUST adopt the euro is their currency as soon as they meet all economic criteria.



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 30):
Anyhow, I do not expect any of the newly jointed members to be as reluctant

On the contrary, there's open hostility to the idea of the Euro in many of the new entrant states. I'm not sure where this will go, because switching to the Euro is going to be politically impossible in many nations for the forseeable future, despite being bound by treaty.

As for Britain, the main pro-Euro pressure group folded recently, which says it all. The non-Euro nations have got this desperately unfortunate habit of doing rather well outside of it. Shame on them.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:39 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
Loads of articles like this one around,

Lots of emotion, usually out of the nostalgia about the "old" currencies which were part of the "national identity". Even many Italians, whose Lira until its end was the worst currency of Western Europe and which was REAL misery, have nostalgia-feelings about that rubbish. In Switzerland, people fear for their Franc as if this had been a national thing for centuries while it in fact only became full federal currency as late a 1874 . But I well remember when making a one-day excursion either to the Alsace-Baden region or to the Lake Constance region you had to be equipped with two other currencies while it now is one currency, and you can keep it and use it next time in a different place. And when going to Italy you no longer had to forget the last 3 digits and read through astronomic figures but you can use money you did use before in Germany. No, the Euro is a good thing, but wherever the change takes place, people need a decade to get used to it. In parts of France, older people until a few years ago still calculated in Vieux Francs, so that a glass of wine costed 900 Francs normally, and 1200 Francs in an expensive place.
-

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 11):
still have the good ol' Swiss Franc
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:54 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 32):
Lots of emotion, usually out of the nostalgia about the "old" currencies which were part of the "national identity".

Mmm, yes, true. But then the Euro itself was built on emotion more than anything. The economic arguments for it have always been a bit flimsy, it was a desire for a political gesture. One of the reasons that frustration builds up is when objections are simply dismissed as "emotional" rather than looking at their causes. The fact that the non-Euro states have outperformed the Euro states isn't going to make people jump for joy, is it?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:06 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 11):
have the good ol' Swiss Franc

-
which will get dropped a few minutes after the top-gnomes in the Bahnhofstrasse see some more profits with the Euro ! While they at present make lots of money out of the "old" currency . .
-

Quoting Andaman (Reply 16):
the next generation Euro coins will have a improved map of Europe,

interesting is that Great Britain already is shown on the "old" Euro-coins !
-

Quoting Andaman (Reply 22):
What is the general attitude in Switzerland, can you see your country joining the EU and Euro system?

the attitude in Switzerland towards the Euro still is rather negative, so that any vote would be lost by at least 55%, presumably rather 60 to 65% . The Swiss Franc, whenever a concept and name taken over from France in the 19th century, is very much a national symbol. As more and more Swiss enjoy the practical side of the Euro which can be used in all neighbouring countries and in some tourist destination countries like Spain, Portugal and Greece, this may gradually change to the better. But that is a matter of at least 5 but rather 10 to 20 years !
-

Quoting Aloges (Reply 24):
to combine that with the advantages of full integration in the EU?

at present, all emphasis is placed upon implementing the "Bilateral Treaties" which mean nothing less than a full defacto-integration into the E.U. . The "full entry" is something for the future, and intelligent "pro-EU-ers" avoid that discussion at present, in order not to whip up emotions. You see, Switzerland is a Schengen-member and fully integrated in most matters
-
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 34):
interesting is that Great Britain already is shown on the "old" Euro-coins !

It's an EU member, that's why. No hidden agenda or drama there. Although the EU have missed Wales off the map before now... Big grin

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3715512.stm
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Klaus
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 33):
But then the Euro itself was built on emotion more than anything.

Yeah, sure. Economists are such an emotional bunch!  rotfl 
 
Klaus
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 34):
at present, all emphasis is placed upon implementing the "Bilateral Treaties" which mean nothing less than a full defacto-integration into the E.U.

...just without a vote at present - Switzerland is following most EU regulations but still has no say about them. Which is a pretty good reason for wanting to change that.
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 36):
Yeah, sure. Economists are such an emotional bunch!

It wasn't economists who created the Euro, it was politicians. Economists would never in a million years have allowed Greece or Italy to join in the first place, and economists have hardly been pre-eminent in the Stability Pact that gets routinely ignored. Fascinating how you claim the economic argument, yet reject it as emotionalism when it applies to the UK, when virtually all economists think it a bad thing for us.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Klaus
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:30 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 38):
Fascinating how you claim the economic argument, yet reject it as emotionalism when it applies to the UK, when virtually all economists think it a bad thing for us.

The advantages of a single consolidated and stable currency couldn't be more obvious. And stable it is.

Regarding Britain, I've repeatedly stated that I do in fact prefer Britain to join the Euro only after the current real estate bubble and the dependent imbalances have been deflated. I may be wrong, but it would not make sense for the rest of us to buffer that fall at this point.

What I'm actively objecting, however, is the aggressive and invariably pejorative anti-european campaign which is being waged in Britain.

Discussing the issues is fine and there are enough of those worthy of criticism, but the british discourse is usually conducted on such a viscerally xenophobic level that it rarely manages to rise to the level of an actual discussion.
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):

Yes. I notice that you completely ignored the point about the economists not having the remotest say in the accession of Greece, Italy (and Germany, funnily enough) nor the GSP.  Yeah sure
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Klaus
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:58 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 40):
I notice that you completely ignored the point about the economists not having the remotest say in the accession of Greece, Italy (and Germany, funnily enough) nor the GSP.

Of course they did - the risks were generally well-known for the most part as were the obvious advantages, but the decision to take the plunge will always have to be a political one in the end.

If Britain would decide to forgo any future-oriented decision for fear that anything might go wrong on the way, you wouldn't have made it as far as you did.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:58 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 37):
...just without a vote at present - Switzerland is following most EU regulations but still has no say about them. Which is a pretty good reason for wanting to change that.

-
isn't that strange ? This country here adopts E.U.-regulations and E.U.-laws, pays all relevant bills, adapts procedures, but just out of national emotions and isolationist instincts does NOT want to get the right to vote about the whole stuff.
-

Quoting Banco (Reply 38):
It wasn't economists who created the Euro, it was politicians. Economists would never in a million years have allowed Greece or Italy to join in the first place, and economists have hardly been pre-eminent in the Stability Pact that gets routinely ignored.

-
the two politicians in question were Valery Giscard d'Estaing and Helmut Schmidt, two leaders whose economic understanding was/is second to none, and who both are not exactly known as emotional people. Italy btw was one of the founder-nations of the Montan-Union which later became EEC and EU .
-

Quoting Banco (Reply 40):
the economists not having the remotest say in the accession of Greece, Italy

-
the Italian economists were in favour of the Euro, while the politicians in Rome who in the end lost some say were against. And the Italians were WITH the party right from the beginning.
-
and I don't know how it is in Britain, but in Switzerland, the economy in reality profits from the Euro as calculations for the foreign trade on which the Swiss economy depends have become much easier and much safer. Retail-companies in most of Switzerland, and also many restaurants and hotels ACCEPT payment in Euro, and parking-meters in many places do as well, so that Switzerland as a NON-Euro-country in reality profits from the Euro already. As the things above help Swiss inbound-tourism.
-
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:11 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
Of course they did - the risks were generally well-known for the most part as were the obvious advantages, but the decision to take the plunge will always have to be a political one in the end.

The whole decision was political from start to finish. There are so many things that wouldn't be done on an economic level that were. Now, you might argue (and I suspect you'd be right) that a project like this could only be done politically rather than economically. However, please don't pretend that this was an economic imperative, because it wasn't. The Euro has been far from an economic success, and I always find it fascinating how proponents of it go on about "obvious" economic advantages without really saying what they are. There are advantages to it (disadvantages too) but no-one ever talks about the economic basis, simply rabbiting on about historical imperatives, a united Europe and all the other political guff.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 41):
If Britain would decide to forgo any future-oriented decision for fear that anything might go wrong on the way, you wouldn't have made it as far as you did.

It's not a question of "going wrong" it's a question of being wrong, for us, now and for the forseeable future. I know this is something you hate to admit, but the Euro, as the UK is currently structured, is a stunningly bad idea. Moreover, it would be bad for you if we were to join, since interest rates would rise by about half a point, the very last thing you need, and such a cut being the very last thing we need. The subject is a completely dead one in the UK right now. That might change in 5 or 10 years time, but for now? No.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 42):
the two politicians in question were Valery Giscard d'Estaing and Helmut Schmidt, two leaders whose economic understanding was/is second to none,

Two politicians who have a grand idea of a United Europe.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 42):
the Italian economists were in favour of the Euro, while the politicians in Rome who in the end lost some say were against. And the Italians were WITH the party right from the beginning.

You've misunderstood me here, I fear. The Italian economists absolutely were in favour of the Euro, as were the Greeks and any other country whose currency was a disaster. For them, an undoubted improvement, for the rest of Europe, allowing them in is an unmitigated disaster. For a nation like Germany, the result is a less stable currency, not a more stable one.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 42):
and I don't know how it is in Britain, but in Switzerland, the economy in reality profits from the Euro as calculations for the foreign trade on which the Swiss economy depends have become much easier and much safer. Retail-companies in most of Switzerland, and also many restaurants and hotels ACCEPT payment in Euro, and parking-meters in many places do as well, so that Switzerland as a NON-Euro-country in reality profits from the Euro already. As the things above help Swiss inbound-tourism.

London is the world's biggest currency market. The Euro simply added another one (and took others away) to the pot. Economic stability whether using Euro, pound or groat is the key. And incidentally, accepting Euros alongside another currency is neither here nor there. It's happened throughout history, whether it be Roman, Spanish, British, American or European currency. It's irrelevant as to whether adoption is a good idea or not, I simply don't care whether shops accept Euros or not, it isn't material.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 43):
The Italian economists absolutely were in favour of the Euro, as were the Greeks and any other country whose currency was a disaster. For them, an undoubted improvement, for the rest of Europe, allowing them in is an unmitigated disaster. For a nation like Germany, the result is a less stable currency, not a more stable one.

-
I regard this consideration as wrong, BECAUSE a union just of the strong currencies would push the "union-currency" upwards which would ruin the export economy. The balance is exactly the result of dominating large and currency-wise stable countries combined with countries with weaker currencies.
-

Quoting Banco (Reply 43):
don't care whether shops accept Euros or not, it isn't material.

-
alright, this simply proves that my idea was correct. It in Switzerland IS material, for instance in regard to tourism, as the neighbouring regions ARE in the Euro-zone. But of course, GreaterLondon has as many inhabitants as Austria and Switzerland combined ! , so that the situations of course differ.
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Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 44):
I regard this consideration as wrong, BECAUSE a union just of the strong currencies would push the "union-currency" upwards which would ruin the export economy. The balance is exactly the result of dominating large and currency-wise stable countries combined with countries with weaker currencies.

Um. No, that's not how it works. It isn't a question of whether a currency is appreciating or depreciating, because countries cope with that. Germany is an excellent case in point of a nation who remained successful despite a currency going through the roof over the decades. Currencies appreciate over long periods because the markets like the fundamentals behind the economy. Competitive devaluation is a mug's game.

By adding weaker economies where the basics aren't right, it creates instability and that's when you start getting fluctuations in the exchange rate, which causes greater damage still. The Euro, despite Klaus' protestations to the contrary, hasn't been the benchmark currency because the markets are suspicious of the fundamentals behind it, and because differing financial pressures in the constituent countries are pulling in different directions.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 44):
It in Switzerland IS material, for instance in regard to tourism, as the neighbouring regions ARE in the Euro-zone. But of course, GreaterLondon has as many inhabitants as Austria and Switzerland combined ! , so that the situations of course differ.

It does on a local level, but the difference in macro-economic terms isn't particularly great. Tourism is affected by a vast variety of factors, and the currency being accepted isn't going to make a massive difference to whether people come or not. It'll make some difference, which is why people go to the trouble of accepting it, no doubt at a highly advantageous exchange rate, and that's fine. But it isn't the same as replacing the Swiss franc, because that fundamentally alters the economy for good or ill.
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NoUFO
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:40 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 43):
The Euro has been far from an economic success

I wonder how you're going to substantiate your claim.

Quoting Banco (Reply 40):
Yes. I notice that you completely ignored the point about the economists not having the remotest say in the accession of Greece, Italy (and Germany, funnily enough) nor the GSP.

If I recall correctly, most British economist urged Britain to join the Euro after the currency was introduced.

Quoting Banco (Reply 31):
As for Britain, the main pro-Euro pressure group folded recently, which says it all.

Does it? Couldn't it be that they are holding back now for the mere reason that
- the introduction of the Euro against the will of the majority of Britons is unlikely and because
- the Pound Sterling more or less behaves like the Euro. Because Britain is strongly tied to the European economy, its currency mimics all the up and downs of the Euro.
Since the Pound Sterling turned into a shadow currency of the Euro, there is no immediate need to introduce the European currency on your island.
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Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 46):
I wonder how you're going to substantiate your claim

Others have claimed it is a success, yet you've not asked them to sunstantiate that.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 46):
If I recall correctly, most British economist urged Britain to join the Euro after the currency was introduced.

Um, no, I don't think so. I can't guarantee that, but I recall a lot of hesitation from the economists, not enthusiasm, far from it.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 46):
Couldn't it be that they are holding back now

Um, no they aren't holding back, they folded. Big difference.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 46):
against the will of the majority of Britons

Correct.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 46):
the Pound Sterling more or less behaves like the Euro.
-

No, it doesn't. Far from it. It behaves quite differently to the Euro, or it would be static against the Euro itself. I've no idea where you get that from, but there's not a serious economist on the planet who'd argue that one.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 46):
Because Britain is strongly tied to the European economy, its currency mimics all the up and downs of the Euro.

That's complete cobblers, I'm afraid. The British economy is out of synch with the Eurozone, which is exactly why there is a problem. Britain is strongly tied to the European economy, but even more strongly tied to the global one. Britain's largest single trading partner is the US, not a European nation, and that's why the currency ISN'T shadowing the Euro. To say it is, is frankly economic illiteracy. Britain's global trading position is unique within Europe, where intra-Eurozone trade is markedly higher as a proportion than British-European trade.
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Joni
Posts: 2613
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
The € is stable (which does actually bother some, as evidenced by the Time article), it is by now the #1 cash currency worldwide and is continually gaining ground as a reserve currency while the € zone is remarkably stable and solid under difficult circumstances.

Personally I've benefited from the Euro most via lower interest rates I pay on my mortgage. Increased cross-country competition also helps keep inflation in check, and that's already close to what you can reasonably expect a currency to do for you.

The UK press is derisive of everything European, so the Times article above, and others like it, isn't/aren't in any way surprising. Have you guys ever read the Economist's "Charlemagne" column? That guy's really never found anything positive in the EU at all.
 
Banco
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RE: Slovenia Introduced The Euro As Its Currency Today

Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 48):
The UK press is derisive of everything European, so the Times article above, and others like it, isn't/aren't in any way surprising.

 Yeah sure

Yes, which is why I said there are loads of articles from all over reflecting the same. Go and look for them.

And once again, I'll just nail this oft-repeated myth about Europhobia in the British press:

Of the five main broadsheets, Times, Telegraph, Financial Times, Guardian and Independent, two are pro-Europe and instinctively pro-Euro, one is moderately opposed (FT) and two are trenchantly opposed. Of the two biggest selling tabloids, one is pro-Euro, one anti-Euro.

But it doesn't seem to matter how often this is pointed out, people still insist on saying how Europhobic the media is.
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