bushpilot
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Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:45 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070103/ap_on_go_co/ellison_quran
Well Rep. Goode should eat crow after the shit he raised over Ellison swearing into congress using a Quran. Because he will be using a copy formerly owned by Thomas Jefferson. An interesting turn of events. I didnt think this would become the issue it has, but hopefully this will put an end to it.
WASHINGTON - Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, will use a Quran once owned by Thomas Jefferson during his ceremonial swearing-in Thursday.

The chief of the Library of Congress' rare book and special collections division, Mark Dimunation, will walk the Quran across the street to the Capitol and then walk it back after the ceremony.

Ellison, D-Minn., contacted the library about the book last month, Dimunation said.
 
Pope
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:34 am

Brilliant move by Rep Ellison.

[Edited 2007-01-04 02:34:42]
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aloges
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 1):
Brilliant move by Rep Ellison.

 checkmark  that and an intesresting bit of news

However, I'd love to see what a spin doctor could fabricate against Ellison. Big grin
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:30 am

Old news. We've known about the Quran thing in the Twin Cities for nearly two months.

Mark

[Edited 2007-01-04 03:33:32]
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Yellowstone
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:49 am

So what do you suppose an atheist would be sworn in on? I'm a Christian myself, but if I were elected to Congress I think I might make a statement by placing my hand on a copy of the Constitution. After all, that is the document they are sworn to uphold!
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aloges
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
We've known about this in the Twin Cities for nearly two months.

And now, someone in Europe knows about it, too. Rejoice!
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 4):
So what do you suppose an atheist would be sworn in on?

I have a friend, who is an Anglican Minister, who talked of putting the religious symbol for all of the worlds common religions on his woodshop building in South St. Louis. He would include a an empty space, of equal size, for atheists, but he figured they would still be upset.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 4):
I might make a statement by placing my hand on a copy of the Constitution. After all, that is the document they are sworn to uphold!

That makes a lot of sense. Politicians should swear on the Constitution.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
yhmfan
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 4):
So what do you suppose an atheist would be sworn in on?

Good question. I checked the website for the Congress and it states that Article 6 of the US constitution requires the following Oath:

"I, (name of Member), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

The bigger question is can an atheist be officially elected? After all, he will not be able to take the oath?!!
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ltbewr
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting Yhmfan (Reply 7):
The bigger question is can an atheist be officially elected? After all, he will not be able to take the oath?!!

Yes. One can do an affirmation and exclude references to 'God' and not use a holy book, yet still be legal. I am quite sure this issue comes up many 1000's of times a year in court proceedings and the like by those not faith believers.
I do love the twist of using a Koran from Thomas Jefferson's library, actually a mid-1700's english translation publication for Rep. Ellison's swearing in, a book owned by the main author of the Declaration of Independence. There has been a number of officials who have taken their oaths with bibles owned by George Washington, and similar important historical figures so this fits right in.
 
melpax
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:50 pm

When I was on Jury duty a few years ago, we were given the option of swearing an oath on the bible, or taking an affirmation.
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
Falcon84
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
Old news. We've known about the Quran thing in the Twin Cities for nearly two months.

Mark

That's not this issue, as most of us here have known about Mr. Ellison's desire to use the Koran for his swearing-in.

What is a brilliant move is Mr. Ellison using a Koran owned by one of our Founding Fathers, after Rep. Goode said that Ellison was somehow un-American for taking the oath on the Islamic Holy Book.

It is, as Pope said, a brilliant, if simply symbolic mood, and should shut up some of these right-wing zealots in the Congress who only want to sow division and hatred towards a duly elected Congressman.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
yhmfan
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 8):
I am quite sure this issue comes up many 1000's of times a year in court proceedi

I agree with you. What I was refering to, however, was the fact that Article 6 in particular does not seem to allow this exception. It does give you the option of saying "I affirm" but then at the end it states "sp help me God"
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Ellison To Use A Jefferson Quran For Swearing In

Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting Yhmfan (Reply 7):
The bigger question is can an atheist be officially elected? After all, he will not be able to take the oath?!!

First up, I doubt atheists are going to be elected en masse in America. This is the land of hyperventilating christianity we're talking about. I'm sure just as people in other countries who do not believe in certain aspects of the oathes they are taking, US atheist politicians would simply preface the oath with a "While I object to the congress' insistance that I employ the services of god to assist me in fulfilling my duties as US congressman...I do solemly swear....."

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