f.pier
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Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:45 am

I'd like to buy a Toyota Yaris 1.3.
I've never had automatic cars until now, but I would like to try this one. Automatic transmission only costs € 600,00 but I'm not sure about its reliability.
I never resell cars, I use them until they work and then I withdraw them from service. This means I use them for 13-14 years and 150-180.000 Kms.

Do you think Yaris 1.3 M-MT transmission will work for 15 years???

This is the only reason why I'm in doubt.

Prices:

1.3 5 doors € 12.700,00
1.3 5 doors M-MT € 13.300,00
 
Go3Team
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:12 am

With proper care and maintenance, there is no reason why an automatic would not last as long as a manual. Toyota has had pretty good reliability with their automatics, compared to Honda, which has shit the bed with their automatics. My sister got over 130,000 miles with an automatic with her "inferior" Ford product. I as well have got plenty of mileage with automatics, in my 1.3 million mile driving experience.
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aa757first
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:18 am

Is there any reason that you are thinking that an automatic is less reliable? I was never aware of that being the case. It is a Toyota and they are usually bullet proof.

I would be concerned about the car's performance. Did you test drive an automatic? Usually acceleration decreases. And considering I have a lawn mower roughly the size of that car, I don't think I would want to put further strain on the engine.  Wink

Good luck,
AAndrew
 
HT
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:27 am

Apart from the test drive mentioned by Aa757first, have you also compared the fuel consumption ? The difference in fuel consumption may make a bigger difference in Euros when calculated to 150.000 km driven.
-HT
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LeonB1985
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:54 am

As far as I'm aware, the MMT transmission isn't a 'real' automatic gearbox, but has some sort of 'computer controlled' clutch. I'm not an expert on these matters, but remember reading something about the MMT setup somewhere when I was looking to buy a car. Will post the link if I find it.
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f.pier
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:11 am

Yes, it isn't a true "automatic", but it's "robotized".

Fuel consumptions are lower than in the manual version.
 
trvyyz
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:30 am

Reliablity is a different issue but to repair a manual costs less and a rebuilt automatic tranny is more prone to failure.

But for toyos you needn't worry about auto trannies for 300k's.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:52 am

I like a manual shift because it makes driving more fun, but in most of the cars I have owned, new and used, and manual was not offered. The small cars I have had were manuals, but all the larger models were autos. Some automatics have a better reputation than others. Some of the best automatics ever made were GM TH-350 and TH-400, Chrysler 727, and Ford C-4 and C-6. Some of the worst were GM TH-2004R and Ford AOD, and anything Chrysler that was front wheel drive in the 80s and early 90s. Toyota autos are generally very good. Asin makes some great transmissions/transaxles that appear in a variety of Japanese cars.

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 1):
With proper care and maintenance, there is no reason why an automatic would not last as long as a manual.

That is the big key. Follow the manufacturers instructions about service and you shouldn't have any trouble. Heat is a problem for automatics. For every 20 degrees F the temperature increases, past normal you cut the service life of the fluid in half. That is why the trans cooler is so important. When I see a dead automatic I usually see three things. Overloaded vehicile (usually a minivan), high miles and never serviced the trans, and wrong fluid. Back in the good old days there was just was two types of ATF, Type F which Ford used prior to 1977 along with many Japanese manufacturers and Type A, which eventually became Dexron III/Mercon. Now there are several brand specific fluids that you must use. For example if you use Dexron III/Mercon in a newer Ford you will have chatter and slippage under load. You need to use Mercon V. Don't put Mercon V in your Honda. Follow the manufacturer's instructions and you will have no problem.

Many people have some sort of superstition about changing trans fluid. They think it will screw things up. I think that comes from most people wait until they have a problem to change the fluid and by then it is too late. Also dropping the pan and changing the filter only gets half of the fluid (maybe even less on some models). You need to do a complete trans flush. You can take it to a shop and they charge you a bunch of money or you can do it in your driveway with a hose, a bucket, a case of ATF, and a funnel.

Manuals are not immune from fluid issues too. For years manuals always used some sort of gear lube like 85w90 or something similar. Today many use autotrans fluid. Always read the manual before putting fluid in a car you are unfamiliar with. The info is usually printed in the owners manual and on the dip stick. Many newer cars do not have a trans dip stick, there is a spot for it, but you will have to go to the dealer and buy it.

I could go on about auto service all day...
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BA787
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:11 am

The Yaris autos are sadi to be sluggish, and they affect the performance. Unless youre desperate, save a bit of money and go for a manual, or use the money to go for the 1.5
 
f.pier
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 8):
The Yaris autos are sadi to be sluggish, and they affect the performance. Unless youre desperate, save a bit of money and go for a manual, or use the money to go for the 1.5

1.5?

Here we only have 1,0 - 1,3 and 1,4 diesel.
No 1.5 available at the moment
 
BA787
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:46 am

Oh are we talking about the new one Big grin
 
N1120A
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
Do you think Yaris 1.3 M-MT transmission will work for 15 years???

Not without at least 1-2 rebuilds or replacements of the transmission, particularly if you are doing mostly city driving.

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 1):
With proper care and maintenance, there is no reason why an automatic would not last as long as a manual.

Incorrect. Automatics are inherently less reliable than manuals because of their design. This is particularly true of front wheel drive automatics that have to bear the weight of and engine and axle.

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 1):
Toyota has had pretty good reliability with their automatics

Better than just about anyone, but a going over 100,000 miles on any FWD automatic is a dicey proposition.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 2):
Is there any reason that you are thinking that an automatic is less reliable? I was never aware of that being the case. It is a Toyota and they are usually bullet proof.

Automatics are pretty much always less reliable, and they cost a hell of a lot more to fix.

Quoting F.pier (Reply 5):
Fuel consumptions are lower than in the manual version.

That is unlikely true in real world driving.
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Jetsgo
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:55 pm

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 1):
compared to Honda, which has shit the bed with their automatics.

Wow that reeks of quality. Care to provide numerous examples of Honda's and failing automatic transmissions? Recalls? Honda builds a damn good product as does Toyota.

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 1):
My sister got over 130,000 miles with an automatic with her "inferior" Ford product.

My mother has roughly 100,000 miles with an automatic on her superior Honda Pilot. What's your point? Like it or not, Ford has a history, both long and short, of building junk compared to that of the Japanese.


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falstaff
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:58 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 12):
My mother has roughly 100,000 miles with an automatic on her superior Honda Pilot. What's your point? Like it or not, Ford has a history, both long and short, of building junk compared to that of the Japanese.

I have 240,000 miles on my Mercedes Diesel with an automatic. 172,000 miles on my Honda Accord Automatic
I have had a dozen US cars with over 100,000 with autos. Like I said before it is all in how you take care of it. Hint, for older Chrysler minivans. When under heavy load, put in third gear, instead of overdrive. 3rd is direct drive and sure mileage will suffer, but costly repairs are less likely.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 12):
Ford has a history, both long and short, of building junk compared to that of the Japanese.

Their AXOD and AX4S automatics were never that good. The AXOD was starved for fluid from the day it was made. There are tricks in the rebuilding world to solve that problem.
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MD-90
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
I never resell cars, I use them until they work and then I withdraw them from service. This means I use them for 13-14 years and 150-180.000 Kms.

Withdraw from service? What? Any car that runs is worth money. My parents sold the old 1985 Toyota Cressida (then 17 years old with 212,000 miles on it) for $950. Not bad.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 13):
Like I said before it is all in how you take care of it. Hint, for older Chrysler minivans. When under heavy load, put in third gear, instead of overdrive. 3rd is direct drive and sure mileage will suffer, but costly repairs are less likely.

A new transmission for a Grand Caravan is at 130,000 miles is unacceptable, in my book. And then replacing it twice more due to problems is incredible. Our van has 177,000 miles on it and it's on its fourth transmission.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 14):
A new transmission for a Grand Caravan is at 130,000 miles is unacceptable, in my book. And then replacing it twice more due to problems is incredible. Our van has 177,000 miles on it and it's on its fourth transmission

You are right that isn't acceptable, in today's world, but 30 years ago you would likely have never made it to 130,000 miles. Most front wheel drive minivans of all manufacturers have trans problems. Part of the issue is weight. Consumers want something that handles and drives like a car. Also they want to put in 7 people and a load of stuff. I used to do warranty analysis for Ford and most trans problems in minivans were associated with overloading. This is party because many manufacturers are cheap and do not develop transmissions that are specific for minivans. Ford and GM both had rear drive minivans that rarely had trans issues, but customers shunned those because they were too much like trucks.

Also we expect a lot from our cars today. In 1977 the average car on the US roads lasted 97,000 miles. Today it is 150,000. The demands for cost reduction, fuel economy, and emission control have forced manufacturers to use more expensive lighter weight materials that can have quality issues. Mercedes-Benz is a great example of a manufacturer who's products were once bullet proof, but today rank behind most everything else in terms of quality.

You would be amazed how many people complain when their Honda or Toyota break down. I once had a lady tell me that her Toyota couldn't need a heater core because Japanese cars never broke. I told her that the Toyota dealer has a service department for a reason. I have a good friend who is a service writer at a Honda dealer. He has to deal with customers daily who can't under stand why their Honda is in the shop. A man recently told him that if he knew that his Honda would need a timing belt at 103,000 miles he would have bought a Ford. I have never had a major engine/transmission problem with any vehicle I ever had, except those that were like that when I got them. I fix more American cars than Japanese cars, but that is only because there are so many American cars where I live. My buddy, Marty, has worked at foreign shops since 1977 and has never been short of work.

50 years ago you had to service a vehicle constantly. People remember everything that was great about classic cars and nothing that was bad.
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VonRichtofen
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:28 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 12):
Like it or not, Ford has a history, both long and short, of building junk compared to that of the Japanese.

Every American car company does, not just Ford. In fact, Ford is probably the best of the US auto makers, especially with their European models. GM is garbage.
 
N1120A
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 14):
Withdraw from service? What? Any car that runs is worth money. My parents sold the old 1985 Toyota Cressida (then 17 years old with 212,000 miles on it) for $950. Not bad.

Things don't really work that way in europe.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 12):
Care to provide numerous examples of Honda's and failing automatic transmissions? Recalls?

I guess you missed the Acura TL/CL recall a few years ago.
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MD-90
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Things don't really work that way in europe.

How does it differ?
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:26 am

F.pier, you COULD buy an automatic car but then you'd have to change your flag. No red blooded Italian male would be seen dead driving a car with an auto gearbox. And if you did, you'd be the only person in Italy with one, so it's resale value would be zero... next question...
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f.pier
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Wed Jan 10, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 19):
F.pier, you COULD buy an automatic car but then you'd have to change your flag. No red blooded Italian male would be seen dead driving a car with an auto gearbox. And if you did, you'd be the only person in Italy with one, so it's resale value would be zero... next question...

I'm really not interested in ehat other Italians do. I can choose the transmission I prefer.
Above all (even before Italian) I'm European, so there's no problem buying automatic.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 18):
How does it differ?

Cars have to pass strict safety checks every couple of years (maybe every year?) in most European countries. Many of the beaters you see on North American roads would simply not be allowed in most of western Europe.

Kris
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:13 pm

To be honest I don't see much sense in buying automatic for a small car, unless you are some "dumb blonde" incapable to use a stick. If you intend to keep the car for such a long time I'd probably think about paying more for the 1.4 D4-D diesel instead of wasting money on automatic.
Looking on technical specs. the automatic transmission basically kills any advantage in performance the 1.3 has over the 1.0.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 16):
Every American car company does, not just Ford. In fact, Ford is probably the best of the US auto makers, especially with their European models. GM is garbage.

Just because it is a Japanese car doesn't mean it is great. 87-89 Mazda 626 had loads of tranny trouble. Toyota recently had a PCV issue, which caused lots of sludge and resulted in dead engines and lots of angry customers. Ford used Yamaha engines in its Taurus SHO models and that engine loved to throw timing chain sprockets. I am not saying US cars are the best. But everyone builds a stinker every now and then. I have a Honda, Dodge, Mercedes, and a Chevrolet. 172,000, 21,000, 241,000, and ??? miles for those cars. Everyone can and does build a good car. Some are just better than others. If we went back in time an looked at 1950s cars in a modern perspective we would find they were very unreliable and VERY unsafe.
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f.pier
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
To be honest I don't see much sense in buying automatic for a small car, unless you are some "dumb blonde" incapable to use a stick. If you intend to keep the car for such a long time I'd probably think about paying more for the 1.4 D4-D diesel instead of wasting money on automatic.
Looking on technical specs. the automatic transmission basically kills any advantage in performance the 1.3 has over the 1.0.

I don't think environmental rules will allow diesel car to be used for more than 10 years...

And I don't like the sound of diesel
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:54 am

Quoting F.pier (Reply 24):

I don't think environmental rules will allow diesel car to be used for more than 10 years...

I don't know how it works in Italy.
 
A332
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 16):
Every American car company does, not just Ford. In fact, Ford is probably the best of the US auto makers, especially with their European models. GM is garbage.

Not true at all... I have owned 3 GM vehicles (I still have 2 of them) in the last several years and all of them were perfect.. not one single issue other than the standard oil change and regular maintenance.

The only bad and extemely expensive experience I have ever had was with an import... I'll never own one again.

American cars might have a reputation for some poor quality issues here and there (which I believe today is often exaggerated), but at least they are fixed easily and for a fraction of the cost.
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falstaff
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:58 pm

Quoting F.pier (Reply 24):
And I don't like the sound of diesel

That is the best part.

I love when I drive my Mercedes-Benz Diesel somewhere and somebody says. "Your car sounds like it is about ready to throw a rod" or what is wrong with your car?". I love to say. " if it wasn't that noisy I would be concerned".

Quoting F.pier (Reply 24):
don't think environmental rules will allow diesel car to be used for more than 10 years...

My Benz is 27 years old and it runs great. The new low sulphur and ultra low sulphur diesel fuel are not good for the injector pump so I pour in a quart of automatic transmission fluid with each tank. Sure that is bad for the environment, but the car runs great. I don't need to do that if I use pump bio-diesel. We brew the stuff at work, but I don't pour it in my car (I had issues). My coworkers do and they have extra maintenance issues, I drive my car on long trips so I don't need the headaches.
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CPDC10-30
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 18):
How does it differ?

Because of much higher fuel taxes and road tax (vehicle licensing), many older cars become uneconomical and can't be sold at any price in Europe. For example, a 1999 Toyota Camry 3.0 V6 with about 70,000 miles can be had in the UK for about £1800, which is less than half of what the same car would go for in Canada. A 1993 model of the same would be lucky to get £300 no matter what condition it was in, but in North America you could probably still get about two or three times that. However the 4-cyl version would be quite a bit more expensive as it is more desirable with fuel being roughly $6.38 USD per US gallon.

I think that part of it is that in the UK you have the silliness of the vehicle's age being displayed on its license plate (unless you get a vanity plate), I think that generally people don't keep their cars nearly as long as in North America.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Yaris 1.3. Would You Buy Automatic Transmission?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 28):
I think that generally people don't keep their cars nearly as long as in North America.

I think the average car on a US road is 8 years old. It takes 15 years for 90% of the us auto feet to turnover. However it is not uncommon to see 20 year old cars still on the road in daily use in the US. In parts of the country where the cars hold up better the time on the road can be longer. I drove a 22 year old car to work today and my 2 year old car is home in the garage.
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