flyingnanook
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:41 pm

Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:22 pm

I need to rant, so apologies in advance.

I went to Fred Meyer (supermarket + everything store for those not in the Pacific NW) today to buy some pseudoephedrine (Sudafed). It used to be that I would have to go to customer service and show my ID to get some. Now, I have to go to the pharmacy to get it. That's all fine and dandy, but the pharmacy closed just before I got there, and even though the pharmacists were still in there, they refused to help me.

I understand that pseudoephedrine is used to make crystal meth, and it has to be regulated. Now my question is what good does making it only available through the pharmacy do? Do the pharmacists do anything besides check ID, which is what the customer service people did? And even then, what good does checking ID do? It's not like they have a record of how much pseudoephedrine you've bought in the past.

Why can't they make small packages of pseudoephedrine available? Something like 24 packs (12 doses if I'm not mistaken), and have your ID checked when you buy it, much like alcohol or cigarettes. I don't really know how much you need when making crystal meth, but I would think that it has to be more than 24 pills.

And besides, since they've made pseudoephedrine harder to get, I haven't noticed any difference in the meth problems that we have up here. So the only thing that they've done is make it harder for sick people to get the medecine that they need.

I'm sorry to go on my rant, but I really needed to vent. I've been badly congested with a post nasal drip for days now and the over the counter Sudafed (phenylephrine) hasn't done a damn thing, and I really want my pseudoephedrine, since I haven't been able to talk for 3 days due to mucous clogging my vocal cords, or something like that. Now I won't be able to get any until I get off of work tomorrow, since the pharmacies open at 9 or later up here.

And one more question, why did they replace the decongestant in Dayquil, but not in Nyquil? I know that it's just phenylephrine and that doesn't do a damn thing for me, but still, why isn't that in Nyquil, only in Dayquil?
Semper ubi sub ubi.
 
andz
Posts: 7624
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:24 pm

Pretty much every product like Sudafed that is available here has pseudoephedrine in and you just buy it over the counter, no questions asked.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:24 pm

Quoting FlyingNanook (Thread starter):
So the only thing that they've done is make it harder for sick people to get the medecine that they need.

That is a specialty of Con Bunde.

Screwing up people lives while claiming to solve social problems.

No wonder he is one of law enforcements favorites.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ArmitageShanks
Posts: 3736
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:30 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:25 pm

As far as I can remember they don't sell it in the pharmacy down here, but they do have all of those stimulant pills locked up in every store.

I asked about them a few weeks ago and they are required to take your name, address, and license info when you buy them so they can make sure you're not buying too many. That stuff is practically pure ephedrine though.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting FlyingNanook (Thread starter):
It's not like they have a record of how much pseudoephedrine you've bought in the past.

About a month ago or so I bought a pack of Allegra-D and had to fill out a mini-form. Now CVS has a record of how much and when I bought it.

Can't remember exactly what was on the form but it was a bit of paper work. Name/date /product and quantity for sure, and I think the name of the pharmacist too.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:34 pm

Quoting Andz (Reply 1):

Pretty much every product like Sudafed that is available here has pseudoephedrine in and you just buy it over the counter, no questions asked.

Up untill a couple years ago, it was the same in the US. Short sighted, freedom curbing laws stopped that.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
About a month ago or so I bought a pack of Allegra-D and had to fill out a mini-form. Now CVS has a record of how much and when I bought it.

And they say this country isn't a police state.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Short sighted, freedom curbing laws stopped that.

Yup, most of the good quality meth is comming over the border from Mexico now.

They can get the core ingredents much easier and in greater quantities.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:40 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
They can get the core ingredents much easier and in greater quantities.

I wonder if people are bringing pseudo and ephedrine over the border?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
Yup, most of the good quality meth is comming over the border from Mexico now.

Well, there goes the economy of the Midwest. I wonder if the Minutemen will try to spin this?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I wonder if people are bringing pseudo and ephedrine over the border?

Both and the finished product also, which apparently is very high quality since the makers can set up much more "professional" labs.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:18 pm

Quoting FlyingNanook (Thread starter):
It's not like they have a record of how much pseudoephedrine you've bought in the past.

They do more than you think. We've had pharmacies call us several times on people who buy a lot of pseudo. When you get calls from all the pharmacies in town, about the same people buying, you know something is up.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Short sighted, freedom curbing laws stopped that

Yeah, much better to have meth labs tainting houses and blowing up randomly. After the law was passed in Minnesota, the number of meth lab busts have dropped significantly.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:29 pm

Quoting FlyingNanook (Thread starter):
It's not like they have a record of how much pseudoephedrine you've bought in the past.

They do everytime I hit the pharmacy. There's a maximum weight you're allowed to purchase in a month and that weight is pretty low.

My wife and I both take Claritin-D 24 daily. To get enough for a month, we have to go to several different pharmacies and each purchase the maximum.

One pharmacist told us the manufacturers of Claritin are considering asking to have their product available by presecription only again. God, I wish they would. I could go back to getting three months' worth in one order online.
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:35 pm

I was in Oregon this past summer, and IIRC they have a law that getting pseudoephedrine requires a prescription (most states just put it behind the counter). Of course, all that happened when they passed the law was that addicts stopped getting their dope from local labs and started buying the really strong stuff from Mexico. Didn't do much of anything to lower meth usage.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:36 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 10):
God, I wish they would.

I don't. I, for one, suffer from hayfever in the spring and summer. I only buy it as I need it, which is usually one pack (24 methinks...I don't remember) every 2 months. If this indeed did go back to Rx...I would have to pay...what is it...something like $50 to go see a doctor who will then tell me "Oh, you just have allergies...go get some Claritin." Yes, that copay seems steep, but when you're on Student Insurance through the University...that's not too bad. It's a crappy insurance, since it's HMO-based, and of course, there doesn't happen to be a prefered provider in BIL, so I'm screwed. Now, Montana State University Billings has promised to work on this, but as with all state institutions, it will take time. The only good thing I can say so far for this insurance, is that they picked up the rest of my kidney stone surgery tab that my parent's insurance didn't cover when they booted me off the policy in August. Supposedly the policy expired on me when I turned 22 in July, yet they payed $16,000 of the $21,000 bill I created in August. Gee, that's just too bad on their part... Big grin
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:52 pm

My pharmacist told me that they have to fax their record sheets in to the FDA (or similar government entity) daily, and the data is collected and cross checked to make sure nobody's buying it at a bunch of different pharmacies.

It is a bit of a pain in the arse, but living out in the boonies around Seattle and seeing the HazMat team cleaning up a crashed van a mile from my house one day - with a bunch of Sudafed boxes spilled over the road next to it - I don't mind the crackdown.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
flyingnanook
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:41 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:06 pm

At least it makes me feel better that at least the pharmacies are keeping record of pseudoephedrine buyers. My friend said that when he bought some iat the pharmacy, they just checked his ID and handed over the medicine, so I just assumed that they just look at the ID and nothing more.

I still think it's a stupid law, because in my experience, the meth labs in the Fairbanks area haven't decreased at all, not that I go out looking for meth labs, this is just what I heard. I mean, there are tons of other items that are used to make illegal stuff. Why is fertilizer so easily available when people make bombs out of it? Yes, I know that's taking it to extremes, but I'm trying to make a point.

Well, let's just hope that my non-decongestant Nyquil knocks me out enough that I don't care if I'm congested. And yes, I do have a cough and headache, so I am making use of a couple of the drugs in there, not just the one that knocks you out (the antihistamine?). Now, if I could only get some cough medicine with codeine, then I'd be a happy camper, but that's a whole 'nother topic.
Semper ubi sub ubi.
 
oly720man
Posts: 5740
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:16 pm

Not being a recreational chemist, how many kg/lbs of Sudafed, or equivalent, would you need to make a reasonable amount of crystal meth? Certainly a load more than the average person with a blocked nose would need.

Incidentally the only "regulation" we seem to have over here for over-the- counter drugs is for paracetamol - too many overdoses. So you can only buy a small packet or 2.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
andz
Posts: 7624
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 6:48 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 15):
Incidentally the only "regulation" we seem to have over here for over-the- counter drugs is for paracetamol - too many overdoses. So you can only buy a small packet or 2.

Here we have a funny situation with paracetamol, the brand that I use, Panado, is available in packs of 24, 50 and 100 tablets (500mg each). The pack of 24 you can buy in the supermarket, but the bigger packs are marked Schedule 1 and can only be bought at pharmacies. However, you can buy as many 24 packs as you like at the supermarket or if you go to Makro (wholesaler) you can buy the bulk pack of 24s with no questions asked, so what's the point of restricting the sale of the bigger packs?
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:24 pm

Another reason for removing Pseudoephedrine products from open shelves was to reduce the exploding theft of such products. With the expanding demand for 'meth' and many users-makers with limited financial resources, they were not buying the product, rather they would steal it, shoplifting many packets at a time. A store, even a small family owned phamacy, could lose $100's a day in product being stolen by skilled and even unskilled shoplifters.
Yes, it is inconvenient and perhaps an invasion of one's privacy, but blame the a-holes that use and make 'meth' as well as the politicians looking for easy, cheap and public ways to control a serious health and drug problem.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 13):
I don't mind the crackdown.

Technically I think it is more of a crankdown.
A crackdown would refer to rock cocaine.

[Edited 2007-01-08 13:36:19]
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
willo
Posts: 1331
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:21 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 15):
Incidentally the only "regulation" we seem to have over here for over-the- counter drugs is for paracetamol - too many overdoses. So you can only buy a small packet or 2.

I tried to buy 2 packs of Paracetamol and 2 packs of Ibuprofen in Tesco last weeks. It wasn't allowed; I could have one of each or 2 of one. I had to laugh - I've just finished 4 months of chemotherapy involving some of the most toxic chemicals known to medicine. Big grin
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:46 pm

Quoting FlyingNanook (Thread starter):
Why can't they make small packages of pseudoephedrine available? Something like 24 packs (12 doses if I'm not mistaken), and have your ID checked when you buy it, much like alcohol or cigarettes. I don't really know how much you need when making crystal meth, but I would think that it has to be more than 24 pills

That used to be the way it was handled, and the meth cooks were showing their false ID's in a number of stores, and purchasing all the pseudo they wanted.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
Yup, most of the good quality meth is comming over the border from Mexico now.

They can get the core ingredents much easier and in greater quantities.

We are taking steps to stop that as well. It will be harder, because corruption is rampant in Mexico.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 11):
I was in Oregon this past summer, and IIRC they have a law that getting pseudoephedrine requires a prescription (most states just put it behind the counter). Of course, all that happened when they passed the law was that addicts stopped getting their dope from local labs and started buying the really strong stuff from Mexico. Didn't do much of anything to lower meth usage.

Actually, your last statement is not correct. Meth usage has gone down.

Quote:
The study also shows that while marijuana continues to be the most commonly used illicit drug among teens, current use of marijuana has dropped by 25 percent over the past five years. And for the single year from 2005 to 2006, current marijuana use dropped by seven percent among all three grades combined. Teen use of amphetamines, particularly methamphetamine, dropped significantly. The prevalence rates for meth use in all categories, for all three grades, is either the lowest or among the lowest recorded since the question was first included in the MTF survey. Past-month use of methamphetamine among youth plummeted by 50 percent since 2001, with less than one percent (.7%) of students using meth at least once in the last 30 days before the interview.



Quoting FlyingNanook (Reply 14):
I still think it's a stupid law, because in my experience, the meth labs in the Fairbanks area haven't decreased at all, not that I go out looking for meth labs, this is just what I heard.

Ah yes, that old reliable measure, "I heard that....."

In 2004, DEA recorded over 17,000 meth lab incidents in the US. In 2005, that number had dropped to 12,484. But don't let the facts get in the way of your preconceived notions.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 18):
Technically I think it is more of a crankdown.
A crackdown would refer to rock cocaine.

 rotfl 
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
About a month ago or so I bought a pack of Allegra-D and had to fill out a mini-form. Now CVS has a record of how much and when I bought it.

And they say this country isn't a police state.

Well technnically it's under CVS's control. I doubt they would be passing that info along. And if I try to buy "too much" in a short period of time, they won't let me. They could call the police but I don't think they would, either.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
They do more than you think. We've had pharmacies call us several times on people who buy a lot of pseudo. When you get calls from all the pharmacies in town, about the same people buying, you know something is up.



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
Occupation: Police Reserve Officer



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 22):
They could call the police but I don't think they would, either.

Nevermind. I guess they do call the police.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:30 pm

What amazed me was the last time I was in the Netherlands I got a really bad cold. I was stuffed up beyond belief. I was staying at the Westin in Rotterdam and I went down stairs to a small shopping plaza next door. I found a pharmacy and started looking for sudafed or equivalent. After about 20 min I couldn't find anything. I asked the pharmacist who told me that I needed a prescription for it.

Amazing. I can buy marijuana freely throughout the country but Sudafed needs a prescription! What's this world coming to?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3644
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 17):
Another reason for removing Pseudoephedrine products from open shelves was to reduce the exploding theft of such products. With the expanding demand for 'meth' and many users-makers with limited financial resources, they were not buying the product, rather they would steal it, shoplifting many packets at a time. A store, even a small family owned phamacy, could lose $100's a day in product being stolen by skilled and even unskilled shoplifters.
Yes, it is inconvenient and perhaps an invasion of one's privacy, but blame the a-holes that use and make 'meth' as well as the politicians looking for easy, cheap and public ways to control a serious health and drug problem.

If they suddenly put it back on the shelves, the store would be swamped with crackheads. I really enjoyed going to the store late at night, and saw the guy with sunglasses on in the cough and cold section in August.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
That is a specialty of Con Bunde.

Screwing up people lives while claiming to solve social problems.

No wonder he is one of law enforcements favorites.

 sarcastic 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Short sighted, freedom curbing laws stopped that.

Ditto  sarcastic 

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
Yup, most of the good quality meth is comming over the border from Mexico now.

Incorrect.

Most meth is home made, right here at home.

And because of these "freedom curbing laws" (again  sarcastic  ) meth use and manufacture is dropping - about 25% if my memory serves - over previous years records.

The number one drug of choice in the Mat-Su valley in Alaska is Meth. Why? Because until the "freedom curbing laws" (still  sarcastic  ), all of the precursors were easy to get. And the recipes are available (and still are) over the internet.

I don't know about you I find it rather bizarre that anyone would want to take a potload of chemicals - including Drano and some other bizarre elements - and ingest it?  crazy  (Sorry there's no emoticon for STUPID on A-Net).

The law is a good one, have the stores track your purchase of the stuff.

It goes back to several topics and points I've made in the past. If you're not a criminal asshole, don't sweat it. And this law is only protecting you and your children.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
Actually, your last statement is not correct. Meth usage has gone down.



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 20):
In 2004, DEA recorded over 17,000 meth lab incidents in the US. In 2005, that number had dropped to 12,484. But don't let the facts get in the way of your preconceived notions.



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
Most meth is home made, right here at home.



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
And because of these "freedom curbing laws" (again sarcastic ) meth use and manufacture is dropping - about 25% if my memory serves - over previous years records.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark  checkmark !!!!!!
Thank you Halls and ANC for injecting some reality into this thread. As a person with chronic sinus problems, yes, the laws are a pain in the neck, but as a former user, I know all too well how much damage this crap causes. As Halls and ANC have pointed out, these laws have helped contribute to the reduction in the number of meth houses and an overall reduction in the abuse of the drug. Yes high quality shit is coming over the border and yes there are still ways to get around the laws, but overall this is one of the true success stories in the fight on illiegal drugs. BTW - thanks to you both for all you do in fighting this scourge.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
JeffSFO
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:48 am

Last year Frontline broadcast a very informative episode on the Meth epidemic in the United States. To get a better idea of why those laws went into effect, you can watch the broadcast here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/view/
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
Yeah, much better to have meth labs tainting houses and blowing up randomly. After the law was passed in Minnesota, the number of meth lab busts have dropped significantly.

Then you get serious about crime, not OTC medication

Quoting Willo (Reply 19):
I tried to buy 2 packs of Paracetamol and 2 packs of Ibuprofen in Tesco last weeks. It wasn't allowed; I could have one of each or 2 of one.

That makes absolutely no sense at all, given that APAP and Ibuprofen are simple analgesics

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
It goes back to several topics and points I've made in the past. If you're not a criminal asshole, don't sweat it. And this law is only protecting you and your children.

It still means a police state.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
The number one drug of choice in the Mat-Su valley in Alaska is Meth. Why? Because until the "freedom curbing laws" (still ), all of the precursors were easy to get. And the recipes are available (and still are) over the internet.

Before meth it was MDMA before MDMA it was GHB (which should still be legal) before GHB it was crack and before crack it was pot (which should be legal). It will be something else next.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
Before meth it was MDMA before MDMA it was GHB (which should still be legal) before GHB it was crack and before crack it was pot (which should be legal).

One simple question for this sentence- Why?
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
It still means a police state.

Bullshit. Over-reaction on your part my friend.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
Before meth it was MDMA before MDMA it was GHB (which should still be legal) before GHB it was crack and before crack it was pot (which should be legal). It will be something else next.

You're right, after Meth it'll be something else, manufactured from various and sundry chemicals inhaled, ingested or whatever by someone . . . it won't stop.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
pot (which should be legal).



I love you anyway you know.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 30):

One simple question for this sentence- Why?

Why what? Why should GHB still be sold in your local GNC? Because when it was, it was sold in metered quantities that didn't cause projectile vomiting and potential death. Why should marijuana be legal? Ever look at the lack of crime in the Netherlands and Denmark? Or is the why about the sentence generally, where I point out that some other cheap high is going to get out and we will be pouring money into that as well?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:49 am

There's a lack of crime in the Netherlands and Denmark all because marijuana is legal, eh?  Yeah sure How about a judicial system that actually punishes it's citizens for breaking the law? I'd go with that one first. Second, GHB...that's really playing with fire. Who is going to monitor it? How is it going to be controlled? Oh, wait, that's right, the same government who you claim is running a police state. Third, and I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet, is "medical marijuana". In 2004, Montana had this on the ballot. I voted against it, then got my arse chewed at work because "it can do wonders medically". Oh what a bunch of Bovine Manure. They have synthetic drugs, even synthetic marijuana, use it. If you legalize mary j, things will spin out of control, mark my words.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 33):
How about a judicial system that actually punishes it's citizens for breaking the law?

Excuse me? We have more of our population in jail here in the US than any other country in the world. Those countries have no death penalty and softer penalties for other crimes that we have draining our state budgets. Perhaps if we reformed our justice system to be a bit less corrupt and a bit more based on a sense of justice AND rehabilitation, then things would work better.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 33):
Second, GHB...that's really playing with fire. Who is going to monitor it? How is it going to be controlled?

It was controlled just fine when it was sold as a dietary supplement. It wasn't until they realized that people felt good when they took it that it became a problem.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 33):
If you legalize mary j, things will spin out of control, mark my words.

I had no idea Amsterdam and Denver had gone to hell.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 33):
They have synthetic drugs, even synthetic marijuana, use it

Marinol doesn't work nearly as well as actual marijuana
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
I don't know about you I find it rather bizarre that anyone would want to take a potload of chemicals - including Drano and some other bizarre elements - and ingest it? (Sorry there's no emoticon for STUPID on A-Net).

Don't forget formaldehyde. W(ho)TF decided embalming fluid was a great high?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
GHB (which should still be legal)

I agree. Losers are having much too difficult a time getting women to sleep with them without it. Just a pain in the ass, I think.  Yeah sure

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
We have more of our population in jail here in the US than any other country in the world.

Per capita, maybe. But I do agree that our prisons are uneccessarily overpopulated. We need to step up the executions and make more offenses capital. Jessica's Law is a step in the right direction.  yes 
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting FlyingNanook (Thread starter):
I understand that pseudoephedrine is used to make crystal meth, and it has to be regulated. Now my question is what good does making it only available through the pharmacy do?



Quote:

A retrievable record of all purchases identifying the name and address of each party to be kept for two years.

Required verification of proof of identity of all purchasers

Required protection and disclosure methods in the collection of personal information

Reports to the Attorney General of any suspicious payments or disappearances of the regulated products

Non-liquid dose form of regulated product may only be sold in unit dose blister packs

Regulated products are to be sold behind the counter or in a locked cabinet in such a way as to restrict access

Daily sales of regulated products not to exceed 3.6 grams without regard to the number of transactions

Monthly sales not to exceed 9 grams of pseudoephedrine base in regulated products

From Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine#United_States_Federal_Law

My best guess is that making it available only at the pharmacy is a store policy. They could sell it in the general area, but they just don't consider it worth it.

Quoting FlyingNanook (Thread starter):
Do the pharmacists do anything besides check ID, which is what the customer service people did? And even then, what good does checking ID do? It's not like they have a record of how much pseudoephedrine you've bought in the past.

Like you can see above, they write it down in a log.

Quoting FlyingNanook (Thread starter):

Why can't they make small packages of pseudoephedrine available? Something like 24 packs (12 doses if I'm not mistaken), and have your ID checked when you buy it, much like alcohol or cigarettes. I don't really know how much you need when making crystal meth, but I would think that it has to be more than 24 pills.

If you watch that PBS documentary, it was common for the criminals to pay people to go into the store and by Sudafed. So if there are fifteen pharmacies in town and you find five people to buy Sudafed from each every week, that's 1,800 tablets a week.

I would not mind if my state made pseudoephedrine a drug that has to be prescribed by a pharmacist. A pharmacist is quick and easy to get to and they would notice signs of a methamphetamine abuser.

Just to point out an interesting fact highlighted in the PBS documentary, 85% of all crime in Oregon is committed by a person on methamphetamine. That is an amazing number.

AAndrew
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
It was controlled just fine when it was sold as a dietary supplement. It wasn't until they realized that people felt good when they took it that it became a problem.

And as soon as it went back to being readily available the exact same problems would reoccur. The whole point of controlling things like ephedra, GHB & pseudoephedrine is that while they are fine when taken as as suggested, for the purpose originally planned, they are in fact dangerous when abused. Now you can argue the whole rational of the countries drug control policy, but at least in the case of pseudoephedrine, the abuse is so wide spread, the social & economic impacts so significant and the personal danger so high, that controlling it is in fact one of the smarter things the government has done on its war on drugs.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3644
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:56 pm

While we are on the drug subject, is it true that the germans used to give their soldiers cocaine in WWII?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 38):
s it true that the germans used to give their soldiers cocaine in WWII?

I don't know about cocaine, but they did give them a form of meth to help with fatigue and alertness. The rediscovery 'Nazi method' of cooking meth is actually part of what fueled the boom in home based labs in the late 80s and into the 90s.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
CaptainJon
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:21 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:27 pm

I agree the pseudoephedrine is redicilious in the United States. Here you can pretty much get pseudoephedrine rather easily. Same with ephedrine based products. Last time I had a really bad headache I had no problem getting Paracetamol with Codeine!
 
Nancy
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 1:54 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:44 pm

Meth is a terrible drug and if something is helping to curb its production, I'm all for it. I get pretty bad sinus problems too and I find that antihistamines work well if you can't get the pseudoephedrine - actually better if you have time to sleep.
 
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
(Sorry there's no emoticon for STUPID on A-Net).

I think yours did the job just fine  Smile

Quoting N1120A (Reply 29):
Then you get serious about crime, not OTC medication

By having precursor laws, it dropped dramatically.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 36):
They could sell it in the general area, but they just don't consider it worth it.

Tweakers will shoplift so much it's not worth it.

Quoting CaptainJon (Reply 40):
I agree the pseudoephedrine is redicilious in the United States

Meth is not NEARLY as much a problem in Europe as it is here, hence our laws need to be stricter. Like others have said though, some things can't even be found in Europe unless you have a prescription.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 36):
Just to point out an interesting fact highlighted in the PBS documentary, 85% of all crime in Oregon is committed by a person on methamphetamine. That is an amazing number.

And a number that is absolutely false.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 35):
I agree. Losers are having much too difficult a time getting women to sleep with them without it. Just a pain in the ass, I think.

Excellent response there  sarcastic  GHB pre-ban was not available in concentrations needed to knock someone out.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 35):
We need to step up the executions and make more offenses capital.

No, we need to get real about a system of Justice and Rehabilitation and stop pissing tax dollars down the drain on junkies and shoplifters.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 37):
And as soon as it went back to being readily available the exact same problems would reoccur.

The major problems didn't occur with GHB until it was made illegal.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 37):
The whole point of controlling things like ephedra, GHB & pseudoephedrine is that while they are fine when taken as as suggested, for the purpose originally planned, they are in fact dangerous when abused

Wait a second, allow me to borrow one from the good ol' Republican playbook. Let's talk about personal responsibility here a bit. If a chubby, out of shape pitcher with pre-existing health problems wants to rubber suit, run his a$$ off and pop 4 times the recommended dose of something, we should ban it to protect the next guy? Give me a break.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 37):
the abuse is so wide spread, the social & economic impacts so significant and the personal danger so high,

I really don't know whether to laugh or cry here. The abuse wide spread? Ephedrine/Ephedra products were very rarely abused and the death and sickness rate extremely low. So was that using GHB until production and use went underground and you were getting mega concentrated doses. Further, legitimate pseudoephedrine is completely undermined now, not to mention that you don't get at the source of the problem in the first place.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting CaptainJon (Reply 40):
I agree the pseudoephedrine is redicilious in the United States. Here you can pretty much get pseudoephedrine rather easily. Same with ephedrine based products. Last time I had a really bad headache I had no problem getting Paracetamol with Codeine!

What works in one place doesn't work everywhere.

Up here in the Mid-Atlantic region, the restrictions probably aren't necessary. In the South and the West, they are very necessary.

Israel, fortunately, probably doesn't have a methamphetamine problem, thus there is no need for restrictions like those in the United States.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
And a number that is absolutely false.

You're right. 85% of all property and identity theft crimes are committed by a methamphetamine user.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...s/mi_qa4440/is_200411/ai_n16062143

The governor said meth contributes to 85 percent of the state's property and identity-theft crimes and is the leading cause for placing children in foster homes.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 42):

Tweakers will shoplift so much it's not worth it.

Good point, I didn't even think of that.

AAndrew
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
The major problems didn't occur with GHB until it was made illegal.

Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary, I'll hold to my understanding that it was specifically because of the rapidly increasing incidence of GHB abuse that it first came under scrutiny, then was banned.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
I really don't know whether to laugh or cry here.

When you finally decide and then get done, why don't you try reading and NOT taking my quote out of context? I specifically said

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 37):
but at least in the case of pseudoephedrine, the abuse is so wide spread, the social & economic impacts so significant and the personal danger so high, that controlling it is in fact one of the smarter things the government has done on its war on drugs.

I don't argue that our whole approach to illegal drugs needs a rethink, and in fact GHB & Ephedra/Ephedrine probably don't deserve their fate, but in the case of pseudoephedrine, I don't have a qualm with the current restrictions. Yes, its a pain, and yes, its a shame that such a beneficial drug is part of the recipe for such a malicious drug, but it is, and the impact from meth is significant enough that controlling the source drugs is just as important as battling the drug itself.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:05 am

Folks, from my days as a prosecutor in a small Iowa county, there are two ways that I know of to make bootleg methamphetamine. The red phosphorus method is more popular in the southwest and in Mexico because the industrial precursors are more readily available in quantity. Occasionally someone around here tries to use the Red P method and spends a lot of time harvesting the red P from matchbook strikers...

The most popular method hereabouts is the lithium reduction method, a/k/a the "Nazi cook". It's more suited to small scale production, and the users prefer the home cookin' to the factory made stuff, perhaps because of the impurities. Somebody asked about the yield from pseudoephedrine-it's about 50 per cent by weight using the lithium reduction method. Each tab of pseudoephedrine is 30 mg which means if the cook does the job well, the yield is about 15 mg, which means 1,000 tabs would yield about 15 grams of product-quite a haul. People were crushing tabs by the thousands and extracting the stuff.

Main problem here in the midwest is that the precursor processing materials-battery acid (pool cleaner), ether or Coleman fuel, lithium metal. amd anhydrous ammonia-are commonly available and the anhydrous gets stolen out of nurse tanks out on the farm.

Of course, there's the problem of people shoplifting large quantities of pseudoephedrine and lithium batteries. That's pretty much finished now, so some people are bringing the stuff in from out of state. The number of labs and dumps is way down this last year. The guy from the local hardware store would routinely call the sheriff when someone bought a bottle of pool cleaner. That identified the local cooks pretty easy.

Of course, there's also what it does to people and their kids when a meth lab blows up.....there was a guy here a couple years ago was stealing anhydrous when he spilled it in his lap and froze his johnson solid. After he got out of the hospital he was arrested a couple weeks later for the same stunt....the process is frightfully dangerous....you can tell meth cooks because they smell like Bayonne New Jersey...very industrial.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
WellHung
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:27 am

There is no shortage of precedent when it comes to restricting the sale of ordinary products that can be misused for dangerous or illegal activity. Try sending a 13 year-old kid into a grocery store to buy 5 dozen eggs and 8 cans of shaving cream the day before Halloween. Or send some punk into a hardware store to buy a case of spray paint. If I want products containing pseudoephidrine, they are easy to buy, as pointed out above. Just ask the pharmacist for whatever you want and show ID. Nothing different than buying alcohol, tobacco or many other products.

It's not like they banned it altogether. You folks need to stop crying.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 46):

Good info.
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
we need to get real about a system of Justice and Rehabilitation

From where I stand, "rehabilitation" is a joke. Sure, it works for a few, but the world is full of felons who exit the prison gate on parole day saying, "I shall sin no more!" then go right back to their old ways. A leopard can't change its spots.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Why Can't I Get Pseudoephedrine Anymore?

Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting WellHung (Reply 47):
There is no shortage of precedent when it comes to restricting the sale of ordinary products that can be misused for dangerous or illegal activity. Try sending a 13 year-old kid into a grocery store to buy 5 dozen eggs and 8 cans of shaving cream the day before Halloween. Or send some punk into a hardware store to buy a case of spray paint. If I want products containing pseudoephidrine, they are easy to buy, as pointed out above. Just ask the pharmacist for whatever you want and show ID. Nothing different than buying alcohol, tobacco or many other products.

It's not like they banned it altogether. You folks need to stop crying.

Concur completely. If there is still any doubt that restricting the sale of psuedo over the counter was effective, I offer the following from the recently released National Methamphetamine Threat Assessment 2007

Quote:
Since April 2004, 44 states have restricted retail sales of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine products to varying degrees, complementing already strong federal controls over wholesale precursor chemical sales. Retail sales restrictions--supported by sustained law enforcement pressure--have limited the amount of pseudoephedrine available to small-scale methamphetamine producers, resulting in a sharp decrease in the prevalence of small methamphetamine laboratories nationally. In fact, El Paso Intelligence Center (EPIC) National Clandestine Laboratory Seizure System (NCLSS) data show that the overall number of reported methamphetamine laboratory seizures nationwide decreased 43 percent from 10,212 in 2003 to 5,846 in 2005 (see Figure 1). Preliminary data indicate that this trend has continued in 2006, and the number of laboratory seizures will quite likely decrease further as more states implement similar restrictions--six more states and the District of Columbia are considering retail sales restrictions.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, bmacleod, flyguy89, jetwet1, lewis, Pihero, speedbored, Yahoo [Bot] and 40 guests