L410Turbolet
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Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:32 am

 
airbusA346
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:33 am

I thought they had reach a deal on the 1st Jan.

Tom.
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RichardPrice
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 1):
I thought they had reach a deal on the 1st Jan.

They did, but Belarus imposed a new oil transit tax on the Russian pipeline straight after - thereby making the extra money back.

So Russia has gone ahead and cut it anyway.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:53 am

The irony is delicious.

The last dictatorship of Europe vs. the Oil Oligarch. And Poland and Germany STILL get a screw job out of it.

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pelican
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 3):
And Poland and Germany STILL get a screw job out of it.

What are you talking about?

pelican
 
OlegShv
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 3):
The irony is delicious.

The last dictatorship of Europe vs. the Oil Oligarch. And Poland and Germany STILL get a screw job out of it.

So, is Russia supposed to subsidize Europe's last dictator?
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:11 am

Time for Canada to ramp up production Big grin
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Thread starter):
...anyone surprised?

Nope. Simple as that.

Aeroflot777
 
pelican
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 5):
So, is Russia supposed to subsidize Europe's last dictator?

No, but Russia is supposed to serve its contracts with other European countries.

pelican
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 4):
What are you talking about?

The supply cuts affect Poland, Germany, and Ukraine...neither of which have a current dispute with Russia or Belarus.

This case demonstrates the need for a switch to alternative energy, as suppliers are becoming more and more unreliable. Outside of that, prices will only continue to rise.

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 5):
So, is Russia supposed to subsidize Europe's last dictator?

No, see above.

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pelican
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 9):
This case demonstrates the need for a switch to alternative energy, as suppliers are becoming more and more unreliable. Outside of that, prices will only continue to rise.

I see and fully agree.
Sorry, I didn't understand what you meant by screw job. Sometimes I can't apply my humble English knowledge fast enough.

pelican
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 9):
as suppliers are becoming more and more unreliable. Outside of that, prices will only continue to rise.

It's more the supply line and not the actual supplier. If Belarus is cyphering off oil from the pipeline, then both Russia and the countries it is supplying in Europe are losing out. It's only obvious to shut the supply off until Belarus is made, or "promises", not to take the oil any more, or to make unreasonable charges for it's passage.

Dan Smile
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Boeing4ever
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 10):
I see and fully agree.
Sorry, I didn't understand what you meant by screw job. Sometimes I can't apply my humble English knowledge fast enough.

Don't worry about, with the amount of English slang thrown around I figured you might have mistook me as saying Poland and Germany were getting some sort of international deviant pleasure out of this...  Smile

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11):
It's more the supply line and not the actual supplier. If Belarus is cyphering off oil from the pipeline, then both Russia and the countries it is supplying in Europe are losing out. It's only obvious to shut the supply off until Belarus is made, or "promises", not to take the oil any more, or to make unreasonable charges for it's passage.

Problem is you're not going to get such promises. And of course, prices will go up as a result. Staying out of the whole CIS would be ideal in terms of energy independence for Europe.

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Aeroflot777
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11):

It's more the supply line and not the actual supplier. If Belarus is cyphering off oil from the pipeline, then both Russia and the countries it is supplying in Europe are losing out. It's only obvious to shut the supply off until Belarus is made, or "promises", not to take the oil any more, or to make unreasonable charges for it's passage.

Exactly!

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
Problem is you're not going to get such promises. And of course, prices will go up as a result. Staying out of the whole CIS would be ideal in terms of energy independence for Europe.

Unfortunately, that's not Russia's problem to deal with either. Some sort of agreement should be reached, and Belarus isn't totally cooperating.
 
pelican
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
I figured you might have mistook me as saying Poland and Germany were getting some sort of international deviant pleasure out of this...

Indeed, and it wouldn't surprise me (knowing the German-Polish relationship)...  Wink

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 11):
It's more the supply line and not the actual supplier

This time you're right. But we all know that monopolies aren't good for customers and Russia has demonstrated on several occasions that they are using their power.

pelican
 
OlegShv
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 9):
This case demonstrates the need for a switch to alternative energy, as suppliers are becoming more and more unreliable.

Yes, but in the near to mid-term perspective this switch is hardly possible.
 
pelican
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 15):
Yes, but in the near to mid-term perspective this switch is hardly possible.

Not completly, although Sweden is exactly doing this. They become completly independent of oil by 2020 (?).

pelican
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 14):
This time you're right.

What do you mean, this time, lol  silly 

Also, I presume that Germany and Poland all have a fairly substantial stocks of oil in storage, so they are not going to be running short straight away, so Russia can do this safe in the knowledge that their customer will not be left dry immediately whilst issuing a wake-up call to Belarus.

Dan Smile
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OlegShv
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:13 am

Regarding Sweden's oil-independence from wikipedia:

    In their report, the Commission proposed the following targets for 2020:

  • Consumption of oil in road transport to be reduced by 40% to 50%

  • Consumption of oil in industry to be cut by 25% to 40%

  • Heating buildings with oil, a practice already cut by 70% since the 1973 oil crisis, should be phased out

  • Overall, energy should be used 20% more efficiently


So, while they will substantially reduce their dependence, they won't totally phase it out. Also, keep in mind that Sweden is relatively small nation of roughly 9 million people - about half population of a large city, say like New-York.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 13):
Unfortunately, that's not Russia's problem to deal with either. Some sort of agreement should be reached, and Belarus isn't totally cooperating.

Understood, but if something isn't done, business relationships can be soured.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 14):
Indeed, and it wouldn't surprise me (knowing the German-Polish relationship)...

Speaking as a Polish person, what Warsaw and Berlin do with each other nowadays behind closed doors is their business. Frankly, I don't want to know. Kaczynski and Merkel...*shudder*. At least it ain't Lepper, madam Chancellor hopefully has some class.  

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 15):
Yes, but in the near to mid-term perspective this switch is hardly possible.

Yes, but at the same time, the US and some European countries are still dragging their feet. When oil goes below 55 bucks a barrel, the incentive seems to disappear...until another wake up call hits. I do believe peak oil is coming. Time to get to work.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 16):
Not completly, although Sweden is exactly doing this. They become completly independent of oil by 2020 (?).

As pointed out, their smaller population helps them out wheras Deutschland und/i Polska are a wee bit more cumbersome. Poland is still in the midst of major infrastructure overhaul which has to be completed before any serious attempt can be made to curb oil consumption.

That said, certainly, Sweden has set the standard, and it wouldn't hurt for Central Europe, nay the whole rest of Europe to follow suit.

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[Edited 2007-01-09 03:03:48]
 
bushpilot
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:20 am

While I think it important for us to explore and develop clean alternative sources of energy the products made from oil is more than 10W40 and gasoline. We can start with plastics being one product we will still need oil for its manufacture. What we need to do is stop creating the bad bedfellows in our need for it. A perfect example is this.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
Time for Canada to ramp up production

Amen to that. Canada has tons and tons of oil, I would much rather use Canadian and Alaskan oil than Venezualan or middle eastern oil. Seems to create political problems when we go that route.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 5):
So, is Russia supposed to subsidize Europe's last dictator?

I thought he was Putin's best friend?

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 7):
Nope. Simple as that.

Exactly. Russia proving itself to be completely unreable and impossible to be trusted as a business partner once again. No surprise here.
 
pelican
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 18):
So, while they will substantially reduce their dependence, they won't totally phase it out. Also, keep in mind that Sweden is relatively small nation of roughly 9 million people - about half population of a large city, say like New-York.

Sure, Germany has a much bigger population than Sweden and it is therefore much more difficult to become oil independent. But to become complete independence is not necessary in the short/mid-term. All those measures you have posted are on the first sight not size dependent. It becomes size dependent not until you look on the alternative sources. Some of those are others aren't. Efficiency should have nothing to do with country size.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 21):
I thought he was Putin's best friend?

Not really, didn't a Russian diplomat say "He (Lukashenko) is a bastard, but at least he is our bastard."

pelican
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:54 am

From what I've heard in the news today, the Belorus government has been tapping te pipeline.
The only way Lukashenko can keep control of his country is by subsidising e.g. energy soviet style, so he needs access to cheap gas and oil. The Russians are not willing to subsidise him anymore.

Jan
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Boeing4ever
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RE: Russia Cuts Oil Supplies To Europe

Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:43 am

Ref posts gone. delete this.

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[Edited 2007-01-10 00:44:48]

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