Falcon84
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Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:37 pm

I just got done reading the President's speech on redefining our mission and strategy in Iraq.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/10/bush.transcript/index.html

After reading it carefully, I've come to the conclusion that this nation must give it's support to this strategy that the President has outlined.

I do not know if it will work-I am skeptical, that, at this late date, almost 4 years after we invaded Iraq, that it may be "too little, too late", but, for the sake of the Iraqi people, the region-and for our nation, I see no other choice but to go forward.

The costs of staying may be very high. We'll see more violence, more Americans and Iraqi's killed by the senseless rampages, and it'll cost this nation billions more, that's true.

But to pull out, would be to condemn the Iraqi people to a civil war that would kill numbers that would be staggering; it would ruin what chance Iraq has to make it in a world without Saddam Hussein; and it would inviate Iran and Syria to come in, partition the nation up, put in a radical Islamic government, and make Iraq a safe haven for worldwide Islamic terrorism.

That is a cost that I don't think we should be willing to pay. We cannot pull out now-we owe it to the Iraqi people, and we owe it to those men and women in uniform who have given their lives to give Iraq a chance.

I was against the war. It never should have been fought; but I also think I'm a realist-and I think many Americans are. I think we have no real alternative right now, then to give Mr. Bush the go-ahead with this strategy.

God help us if it doesn't work. I hope most Americans back the President on this one.
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TedTAce
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:44 pm

And so parroting the media begins.

I say give him 4 months, if the Iraqis aren't goosestepping like good little civilians by then get out like a guy gettng sucked into and A-6 engine.

The Iraqi's have been warned we will not be there forever, we need to be people of our word too. If they choose to fuck it up oh well. I'd rather have our troops at home guarding our borders then over there playing sniper bait.
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Falcon84
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:46 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
And so parroting the media begins.

How can I parrot the media, Ted, when I haven't even watched, read or listened to what anyone in the media is thinking on this. I'm giving you MY thoughts, not the media's, OK?
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AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:53 pm

The increased troop levels are to hold positions that have been cleared, where previously insurgents were allowed to return as troops moved on. This is the hard sell. Where in the president's plan does he outline where the Iraqis will be able to secure their homeland themselves? Right here:

"Our troops will have a well-defined mission: to help Iraqis clear and secure neighborhoods, to help them protect the local population, and to help ensure that the Iraqi forces left behind are capable of providing the security that Baghdad needs."

Okay, good start. Then we find:

"Succeeding in Iraq also requires defending its territorial integrity - and stabilizing the region in the face of the extremist challenge. This begins with addressing Iran and Syria. These two regimes are allowing terrorists and insurgents to use their territory to move in and out of Iraq. Iran is providing material support for attacks on American troops. We will disrupt the attacks on our forces. We will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria. And we will seek out and destroy the networks providing advanced weaponry and training to our enemies in Iraq."

I'd like to know more about this part. It sounds like going up directly against Iran and Syria, which is yet again another change in the reason for conducting the war in Iraq. Not handled properly can bring about the entire region becoming destabilized.

The Iraqis need to seal their borders and provide safety for their own sovereignty, not us.
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Falcon84
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
The Iraqis need to seal their borders and provide safety for their own sovereignty, not us.

They don't have the capacity to do that yet. In that regard, they still need us. If we leave now, the death toll will be unimaginable, and Iran and Syria have a home base to launch new attacks on Israel, the rest of the Arab world, and on the West.
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AirCop
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Stra

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
After reading it carefully, I've come to the conclusion that this nation must give it's support to this strategy that the President has outlined.

I came to the opposite conclusion, the president has lied to the American people time after time regarding Iraq, why start believing him now?

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
We will interrupt the flow of support from Iran and Syria.

Naval ship off the coast of Iran, is the US going to be involved in warfare with Iran and Syria also?
The US freed Iraq of Sadam, helped establshed a new government, now is the time to develop an exit plan.
Besides what are you going to tell the troops that will have their tours extended to reach the increase troop level? You did your time, but why don't you stay awhile longer.
Time for the Iraq government to put up or shut up.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
They don't have the capacity to do that yet. In that regard, they still need us. If we leave now, the death toll will be unimaginable

I realize that, and I'm not saying for us to leave. I'm asking whether we should be up against Iran and Syria, and whether 20K troops is enough to do what the president has outlined. With the buffet he's spread out, it doesn't seem so when you look at everything he has planned.

I could be wrong, but I hope for everyone's sake I'm not. I've heard today that conservative think tanks are saying to impliment everything would need closer to 40K troops.

Where/when do we have the troops with a defined mission that's workable? Our involvement on the Iranian and Syrian borders doesn't sound right.
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TedTAce
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 2):
How can I parrot the media, Ted, when I haven't even watched, read or listened to what anyone in the media is thinking on this. I'm giving you MY thoughts, not the media's, OK?

I'm sorry, but your statment sounded errily close to something I heard on the news.


Speaking of the lying media whores...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

I must of missed it because I did NOT hear him admit to making a mistake. MAYBE he said 'we', but he didn't admit to a personal mistake as the graphic intimates.

For Bush to be anything other then a puppet he needs to stand tall and say 'I'm sorry' and 'I made a mistake'. Not hide behind this 'we' shit.
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Falcon84
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 7):
must of missed it because I did NOT hear him admit to making a mistake.

Here's a paragraph from the speech:

"The situation in Iraq is unacceptable to the American people - and it is unacceptable to me. Our troops in Iraq have fought bravely. They have done everything we have asked them to do. Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me."

The admission is about 18 months too late, but to hear this president EVER admit he did anything wrong is astounding.

And AirCop, I realize what you say about Bush lying about Iraq-the very falsehoods were used to get us into this mess, but I don't think we have a choice, for the reasons I outlined. We OWE it to the Iraqi people. We have to make the continued attempt to make it something that can work, or it we will have lost thousands of Americans for nothing.

[Edited 2007-01-11 05:15:20]
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AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 7):
I must of missed it because I did NOT hear him admit to making a mistake. MAYBE he said 'we', but he didn't admit to a personal mistake as the graphic intimates.

From the speech:

"Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me."
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GuitrThree
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
I don't think we have a choice, for the reasons I outlined. We OWE it to the Iraqi people. We have to make the continued attempt to make it something that can work, or it we will have lost thousands of Americans for nothing.

 checkmark 

But not only that, the Iraqi people OWE it to us to work to stand on their own.
Winning in Iraq could move the world in the right way.
Losing in Iraq WILL move the world in the wrong way.

I'm not sure if the Democrats winning in November was the reason why Bush admitted mistakes. Maybe, maybe not, but can we all agree that pulling out right now WILL ensure a loss, which ENSURES the middle east will be that much more dangerous?
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
I've come to the conclusion that this nation must give it's support to this strategy that the President has outlined.

I would concur, however, it's a couple years too late.

But, PotUS will get the votes (despite kennedy) and the support. As was mentioned on CNN, this is "Double or Nothing".

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
But to pull out, would be to condemn the Iraqi people to a civil war that would kill numbers that would be staggering; it would ruin what chance Iraq has to make it in a world without Saddam Hussein; and it would inviate Iran and Syria to come in, partition the nation up, put in a radical Islamic government, and make Iraq a safe haven for worldwide Islamic terrorism.

That is a cost that I don't think we should be willing to pay. We cannot pull out now-we owe it to the Iraqi people, and we owe it to those men and women in uniform who have given their lives to give Iraq a chance.

Well said my friend. What is the cost of either option. We can pay a little now, or we can pay dearly - on all sides - for a very very long time to come.

Iran won't screw the pooch overtly, Israel will nuke their ass . . . but Syria already is most likely. As I've maintained from Day 1, wanna find any iraqi WMD, we're looking in the wrong place. ***

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
The Iraqi's have been warned we will not be there forever, we need to be people of our word too.

Spot on Ted T . . . it's time for the Iraqi's - wait . . . PAST time for the Iraqi's to put up or shut up. We handed them an opportunity, they can squander it or profit by it. Not our call any longer.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
I'd like to know more about this part. It sounds like going up directly against Iran and Syria,

Rhetoric at the moment I believe. Why? Several schools of thought here:

First. IF - IF - IF we decided to strike either of them, with what Army, Air Force, Marine Corps do you (not you, but you generically) think we oughta use against them. Thanks to Bush1 and Clinton we're stretched beyond capacity. Unless you can suddenly pull a Str Wars Clone Army outta your ass, we're rather stuck at the moment. I'm even curious what 21,500 troops we're gonna send back that have had appropriate rest and refit time.

Second. What equipment are we going to use. The Abrams tanks are worn to failure, Our Hummers suck. There aren't enough Strykers. Airplanes need parts and pieces. We can't get enough 5 ton fuelers into the combat theater. On and on.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
The Iraqis need to seal their borders and provide safety for their own sovereignty, not us.

Should have done that a VERY long time ago. If it moves, shoot it.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
I came to the opposite conclusion, the president has lied to the American people time after time regarding Iraq, why start believing him now?

I'm discounting the word lie - for the sake of my point to be made here - because I don't believe it.

The PotUS has finally done something that members here have been harping on him to do for at least as long as I've been a member here . . . and now, even when he does that, it's not enough, or he's still lying, or no one believes him? Now, I don't say I can't blame you . . . . crying wolf long enough make disbelievers out of a lot of folk. But let me ask this, how do you know he finally doesn't have his head on right about this. Afterall, his primary military man is gone - RUMMY - replaced by a man that made no bones about a need for a change in tack and direction in Iraq during his confirmation hearings?

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 7):
I must of missed it because I did NOT hear him admit to making a mistake

Yes, he did. And his quote was something along the lines of "For those mistakes the responsibility lies with me".



** Yeah Yeah, I've been told before Assad and Saddam didn't get along worth a hoot, however . . . . when the crap hits the fam and it's a muslim country against the west - like all all things human, other Muslim countries come running. Ditto for anyone. US and UK for instance.
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Falcon84
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 10):
But not only that, the Iraqi people OWE it to us to work to stand on their own.

I disagree. They owe it to THEMSELVES, and no one else, GT. They don't owe squat to us, far as I am concerned. WE invaded THEIR country, and basically dictated what they would become.

They have a debt of honor not to us, but to all the thousands of Iraqi's who died under Saddam's boot, and who have died in this sectarian violence.

I did read where one lawmaker called this Mr. Bush's "Hail Mary" play. I laughed it off at first, but on second consideration, I think he's right. The entire four years we've spent in Iraq now, probably for better or worse, hinges on this strategy, and this course of action.

If it works, then Iraq COULD become the standard for a new course in the region. If it fails, it could lead to even a bloodier future for the region, what with the likes of Syria, Iran, al Qaeda, Hezbollah and Hamas in the region.

Let's all pray-no matter what our view on it-that the former, in some form, is the outcome.

[Edited 2007-01-11 05:31:51]

[Edited 2007-01-11 05:34:25]
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:35 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 10):
I'm not sure if the Democrats winning in November was the reason why Bush admitted mistakes. Maybe, maybe not,

I'm sure it had something to do with it. I'm also sure that his new SecDef has something to do with it. HONEST answers, rather than Rumsfeld's arrogant bullshit.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
They have a debt of honor not to us, but to all the thousands of Iraqi's who died under Saddam's boot, and who have died in this sectarian violence.

 checkmark 
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GuitrThree
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
I disagree. They owe it to THEMSELVES, and no one else, GT. They don't owe squat to us, far as I am concerned. WE invaded THEIR country, and basically dictated what they would become.

I'm not sure.. I look at it us giving them the opportunity to have, as close as they can, a democracy free of threats of Saddam Hussein.

A few short years ago if they spoke out they could get their hands cut off, or even worse, death.
A few short years ago, thousands of people were being thrown into mass graves.
A few short years ago, millions were living in poverty with no hope of getting out, while Saddam lived in palaces.

Today, all of those are gone. Is it bad there today? Sure, but at least they have hope, if they all get to work and build their country like our ancestors did here. I see it as them needing to work to help us get out in return for freeing them.
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TedTAce
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me."

Furter evidence he's a jack ass. Instead of saying something SIMPLE like 'I made mistakes' Or heaven effing forbid 'I made mistakes and am sorry' He just said there were mistakes and 1/2 heartedly admitted they were ultimately his responsibility.

That's like saying 'I didn't DIRECTLY oder those troops to abuse prisioners at the prison, but I guess that as they acted under my watch I'll take the blame.'
 redflag   redflag   redflag   redflag 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
They owe it to THEMSELVES

ABSOLUTELY!!
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andessmf
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
It sounds like going up directly against Iran and Syria

According to UH60, this has been happening for YEARS already. We weren't just fighting insurgents, we were fighting Syrian and Iranian assistance as well. IIRC, there are satellite pictures of truck convoys from Iraq to Syria from before the invasion.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
But to pull out, would be to condemn the Iraqi people to a civil war that would kill numbers that would be staggering

Pulling out can not only cause plenty of death in Iraq, but in the entire area.

One example I gave was that if the Kurds decide to declare independence, the Turkish and Iranian armies would be in their doorsteps very quickly.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:03 pm

What was President Shit-for-brains like as governor of Texas? Was he as stupid as he is now? And what the hell were the Texans thinking?

Mark
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
But let me ask this, how do you know he finally doesn't have his head on right about this. Afterall, his primary military man is gone - RUMMY - replaced by a man that made no bones about a need for a change in tack and direction in Iraq during his confirmation hearings?

That's a good question. What disturbs me is when I start thinking about what caused President Bush to 'find a new way forward.' Had the Republicans won control over the Senate and House, I cannot say with confidence that President Bush would have changed his approach to the war. If he 'changed the course,' so to speak, because he was afraid of ramifications from the newly elected Senate and House, then how dedicated is he to resolve the conflict?

Also what we've been hearing from President Bush is that he and his Administration are listening to the Generals, whom told thim the amount of troops was adequate to achieve objectives in Iraq. (Which we know is not the case). So President Bush sending more troops to Iraq is a good sign because you know his top advisors aren't feeding him only what he wants to hear.

My main concern about this new plan is it is based on the Iraqi government, specifically PM Maliki, to take responsibility of a stable Iraq. In his speech, President Bush said:

"I have made it clear to the prime minister and Iraq's other leaders that America's commitment is not open-ended. If the Iraqi government does not follow through on its promises, it will lose the support of the American people - and it will lose the support of the Iraqi people. Now is the time to act. The prime minister understands this."

He may understand it, but what if he does nothing about it? What do you do then? I don't see President Bush pulling troops out of Iraq. So that leaves us back at square one. I hope this isn't the case, however.

Anyway, I'm with you Falcon on all your posts, well done. I am praying this new strategy will work.

All the best to the 20,000 troops going to Iraq, and those already there and all around the world. Stay safe, God speed.

Dave
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:54 pm

Dave, if he Republicans were still in control of the House and Senate that assmonkey Rumsfeld would STILL be running the DoD. Of that I'm certain. Therein lies PotUS failings. He relies too heavily on his staff. Some have served him well . . . Gen Powell . . . some have shat all over him . . .Rumsfeld.

Your concerns about the Iraqi gov't are quite justified.

Time to tell them to put up or shut up . . .

Like I said a year or so ago . . . okay, boyz and girlz of the Iraqi Congress . . . you have XXX amount of time to get our heads out of rectal defilade and make this happen . . . cause, ummmmm, the US is outta here!!!

Have a nice day,
Love the United States Military
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AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
Like I said a year or so ago . . . okay, boyz and girlz of the Iraqi Congress . . . you have XXX amount of time to get our heads out of rectal defilade and make this happen . . . cause, ummmmm, the US is outta here!!!

Have a nice day,
Love the United States Military

If I toss you 4 bits, would you print it out, stick it in an envelope and mail that off to them?  thumbsup 
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:05 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
If I toss you 4 bits, would you print it out, stick it in an envelope and mail that off to them?

Hell I don't know, what International Mail First Class Rate to Iraq???

 rotfl 









Of course it's going F, ANC goes F so does his mail dangit.
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Aaron747
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Stra

Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:06 pm

An interesting point is the commentary about Iran and Syria. If we are to believe that Al-Maliki is actually capable of bringing the bulls to the gate with regard to the militias, it's hard to say where the power play will go. Assistance and interference are coming from both Syria and Iran, but the former is Sunni and the latter Shia. Apparently the Administration believes that it's possible to both put off interference from the above-mentioned and maintain a cooperative union in post-civil war Iraq.

It's a staggering contradiction with a resolution beyond the capability of either military planning and/or political assistance to the fledgling Iraqi democracy any way you look at it.

Senator Warner said earlier that these assumptions are incredibly risky to make. He said he hopes he's wrong and that the Bush is right. Nothing could be more true, and for the sake of our bravest who find themselves in the middle, the White House had better have a backup plan for when the quicksand shows its depth.

[Edited 2007-01-11 07:07:10]
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:18 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
Time to tell them to put up or shut up . . .

Like I said a year or so ago . . . okay, boyz and girlz of the Iraqi Congress . . . you have XXX amount of time to get our heads out of rectal defilade and make this happen . . . cause, ummmmm, the US is outta here!!!

Have a nice day,
Love the United States Military

 laughing  Sounds funny, but it is actually true.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
If I toss you 4 bits, would you print it out, stick it in an envelope and mail that off to them?

Why is ANC upgrading his computer? HA, get it, bits, like computer......sigh, nevermind.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Of course it's going F, ANC goes F so does his mail dangit.

With a "US MAIL, RETIRED" hat?? Big grin

Dave
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AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:21 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 23):
Why is ANC upgrading his computer? HA, get it, bits, like computer......sigh, nevermind.

Oh dang, you've caught us showing our age! Two bits is a quarter, four bits is 50 cents. Big grin
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 22):
Apparently the Administration believes that it's possible to both put off interference from the above-mentioned and maintain a cooperative union in post-civil war Iraq.

I'm not prepared to believe that yet. Given a thousand years of history, I think it's prudent to wait and see.

Afterall, had it not been for Saddam and his heavy handedness, such infighting amongst the Sunni and Shia would have continued unabated . . . the mass graves are a testament to that.
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Aaron747
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Stra

Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:55 pm

Any reasonable person with an understanding of the region should have trouble believing that, given the history as you say. So then, on what basis does the Administration believe it? More ideologically bent tomfoolery?

Or wait, perhaps yet again, they have failed to listen to people who know what they're talking about.

On another note, anyone watching CNN earlier who caught the after-interviews would have been thoroughly amused by John Edwards posturing himself as some blithe country know-it-all again. I didn't disagree with the general position he shared that Iraq must take full responsibility for its own governance and security, but his hypocrisy was showstopping. In the example supporting his statement, he insisted that people only take responsibility for things when nobody else is there to prop them up. His voting record would suggest otherwise

More proof that at the end of the day, the good folks in Washington are time and again overshadowed by the empty rhetoric of talking heads.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2007-01-11 07:59:30]
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AirCop
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:37 pm

After a night of reflection on the president's speech there is still many questions not answered. He didn't talk about disbanding Shilte militas, he remains vague about his accountability for the mess in Iraq, he set no timetable for our involvement (is this going to continue on until he leaves office), still no long-term vision for US strategy in Iraq, didn't address the strong anti-war feelings among Americans and quite frankly, I don't think he changed anyone minds.
 
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
The Iraqis need to seal their borders and provide safety for their own sovereignty, not us.

We can't do that ourselves with our own borders, to expect the Iraqis to do it is pretty wishful thinking.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
Besides what are you going to tell the troops that will have their tours extended to reach the increase troop level? You did your time, but why don't you stay awhile longer.

During previous wars you stayed on until your enlistment ran out, you were shot captured or killed, or were one of the very few lucky ones rotated home. Rotating troops in and out of the war zone has only happened in the past 50 years or so, so they should consider themselves fortunate.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
What was President Shit-for-brains like as governor of Texas? Was he as stupid as he is now? And what the hell were the Texans thinking?

He was considered a good governor after the state put up with the late Ma Richards. He was able to get the democrat and republicans in the legislature to work together. Unfortunately he found out in Washington you have 535 wannabe Presidents so working together doesn't happen. He's no more stupid than Russ "please let me restrict your speech" and "let us cut and run in Iraq" Feingold. He'll be in the Senate for a while now since he was succesfull along with McCain in passing a bill that essentially silences his opponents within 60 or 90 days of an election. All he has to do is sweetheart the media.

I'd mention a President from Wisconsin, but so far no cheesehead has made it that far.

It is still up to the Democrats to go along with this plan since it calls for an additional 5.6 billion to fund it. So far it looks like they will attach a lot of strings to any additional funding so as to become 535 defacto Commanders in Chief.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/01/11/D8MJ4ID80.html
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bushpilot
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:18 am

As most of you know, I am not a fan of this war. I sat and watched the speech last night with an open mind. There is nothing I want more than to come from this situation than a viable Iraq, which is peaceful, democratic and fruitful in the world community.

I have blasted the reasons we went to war, the progress made so far, and the way in which this whole thing has operated.

Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. He can have the troops, and I dont criticize him for that. I am glad he finally took some personal responsibility in this endeavour publicly.

This all being said, he still needs to be held accountable for his actions and his decisions, just as the rest of us are in our jobs, but I would say even more so.

It is now time for the Iraqis to step up to the plate, and it has been for a long time. They have been given an opportunity that many of us in America thought they would embrace and make thier lives better. So far that hasnt happened. If they dont shape up and fly right, we pack our bags and head home simple as that. This whole situation shouldnt have happened in the first place from starting the war, to not securing the country.

If this works, I will give due credit to where it belongs. If it doesnt I will villify our President for as long as I am alive.
 
jaysit
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:54 am

The Bush girls should be sent to Iraq to entertain the troops and keep up their "morale." Among other things. There's no reason why a bunch of randy Argentines shouls enjoy what our poor troops can't.

President Dung-for-brains finally got it right. About 4 years too late. If you plan on invading a country that contrary to what his flunkies said is not about to welcome you with rose petals and dancing maidens, you can't go in for invasion-lite.

This Iraqi invasion was a dumb idea based on rubbish and lies, but now that we broke it, we gotta fix it. Disposing of a paper tiger dictator whose glory days of murder and mayhem were at least 12 years behind him, with a bunch of bloodthirsty Mullahs who enjoy homemade beheading videos will go down as one of the most ludicrous moments in history.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
andessmf
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 29):
This whole situation shouldnt have happened in the first place from starting the war, to not securing the country.

As an additional thought, has the rise in oil prices since the invasion not given Iran more money to create the havoc they had?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 28):
We can't do that ourselves with our own borders, to expect the Iraqis to do it is pretty wishful thinking.

Then how do we expect to do it in Iraq?
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jaysit
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 29):
It is now time for the Iraqis to step up to the plate, and it has been for a long time. They have been given an opportunity that many of us in America thought they would embrace and make thier lives better.

Give me a break. You're totally buying into the propaganda we were fed.

This isn't some reality TV show where some fat girl is told that she was given a chance to lose 100 lbs, but she didn't workout hard enough, and so she should be brought out and shamed by stick-insect model-hosts.

We have a rudderless nation-state which is essentially 3 separate countries held together for decades by pan-Arab nationalism, then Baathism and brutality, followed by a 10 year trade embargo devastating it financially and an invasion that decimated its social and administrative fabric. A hostile neighbor next door, a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy just south of the border with billions to spare in covert funding, and a bumbling foreign invader doesn't a model democracy make in 3 years.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
bushpilot
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 31):
As an additional thought, has the rise in oil prices since the invasion not given Iran more money to create the havoc they had?

I generally try to stay out of that debate because when Iran makes money on high oil prices, so does the state of Alaska. Despite that, we pay 4.60 for a gallon of gas here.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 33):
Give me a break. You're totally buying into the propaganda we were fed.

Your right I did. Not something I am proud of but will admit it. I believed it when I was told Saddam was sitting on a vast stockpile of WMDs. When I realised that was made up somewhere, and then the situation on the ground has only declined and I realised the war was being ineptly run, it lost my support. But we find ourselves collectively as a country in a bad situation. We cannot simply pull our troops out. That would be the dumbest possible thing to do at this point with the violence raging out of control. So what are our options? We make one last push, and if these additional troops arent able to stop the bloodshed then we get the hell out. There is to much on the line for to many people not to give this ONE last shot.
 
dvk
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Thanks to Bush1 and Clinton we're stretched beyond capacity.

...AND Rumsfeld, who was obstinately opposed to increasing the size of the military for the past six years
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
AGM100
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:16 am

This war has had one very important achievement IMO. It has defined who the enemies of the civilized world are. Their is no doubt that the religious extremist have been exposed as the enemy of civility and freedom. The effects of this are being under estimated by the lack of a military victory.But the quite ideological effects of this are being slowly realized. Like I have said before , it will come to a choice by the Iraqi people ... Democracy or some form of it and coexistence ..or Islamic law and the same old thing. We have no way to force this choice other giving them a chance to choose it . Thats what our brothers and sisters ,sons and daughters are doing thier.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
God help us if it doesn't work. I hope most Americans back the President on this one.

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Falcon84
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:18 am

I read again what Mr. Bush said on Wednesday night. And it's pretty sobering, the import behind what he said.

We are, for better or worse, at the true turning point on where Iraq will go-towards a free, independent nation, or towards utter chaos, and truely controlled by foreign powers, namely Syria and Iran.

This goes beyond American politics now-it passed beyond that a long time ago. This is now the life and death struggle of a nation.
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jaysit
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
We are, for better or worse, at the true turning point on where Iraq will go-towards a free, independent nation, or towards utter chaos, and truely controlled by foreign powers, namely Syria and Iran.

Frankly, I think that's a lot of pablum and hooey trotted out by the perpetually campaigning White House. The only chance in hell that Iraq has is to be a de facto vassal state of the United States under full US protection for the foreseeable future - 5, 10, 20 years, or more. Even then, I doubt if Maliki or his puppet government will survive an assassination attempt, and any country under the rule of a bunch of democracy hating Mullahs is anything but free.

And as far as Syria goes, at least they don't go about allowing their Christians to be rabidly murdered like present day Iraq does. The exodus of Christians out of Iraq and into Damascus over the past 3 years has been relentless.
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Falcon84
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 38):
Frankly, I think that's a lot of pablum and hooey trotted out by the perpetually campaigning White House.

You can keep thinking that, Jaysit, but I think we're at the final turning point where either the mission succeeds, or it fails, and the result of failure is something that could be quite unimaginable, and end up with Iran and Syria controlling Iraq, and using it as a launching pad against Israel, against other nations' in the region, and against the U.S.

Maybe it's hooey to you, but I think it's the defining time in this conflict.
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speedbird747BA
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thatll be Pres. Bush.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
RJdxer
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
Then how do we expect to do it in Iraq?

That's not the question, the question is how do we expect the Iraqis to?

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 38):
Frankly, I think that's a lot of pablum and hooey trotted out by the perpetually campaigning White House.

Campaigning for what? They have no more elections to win.

I'm not surprised by what I have read on this thread. Ted T Ace, if the President came out and said he was completely responsible then you would cry that he should resign. No apology or any kind of remorse would be enough to satisfy you. Jaysit, it's a shame you can't understand that we fight them there or here, take your pick, they are not going away no matter what we do. Would you prefer that we lose soldiers that are trained to fight and survive, or just watch helpless civilians get slaughtered by bombs and hijackings here in this country. Take your pick because that is the future for the next half century just as cold war was our lot for the last half of the 20th century. We could walk away tomorrow in Iraq but that would not stop those that don't like us from working their way over here. You can choose not to believe that if you wish but 9/11 and the millienium attack are proof that it will happen if we don't stop them over there.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
LH423
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Stra

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 14):
Sure, but at least they have hope

Hope?! Sure, life sucked under Saddam but at least with Saddam as long as they kept quiet and lived their lives there was little chance that any harm would come to them or their families. Yeah, they have hope alright. They HOPE that they, or a member of their family, won't be killed by a carbomb. They HOPE that they won't get caught in the crossfire between US troops and insurgents. They HOPE not to have to have a leg or arm amputated or suffer 3rd degree burns or have shrapnel pulled from their body. They HOPE to just live to see another day, and for what. To see their country in complete shambles. To see their lives completely torn apart from what it used to be.

I am not saying that life under Saddam was good. As much as I was against the invasion I can't say I miss Saddam. However, to speak on behalf of the Iraqi people and to say that they have hope is so removed from reality.

The only thing they can hope is that someday this will all be a distant memory. But the way things are going now all they can do is hope, because there's now certainty in their lives anymore.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 41):
That's not the question, the question is how do we expect the Iraqis to?

Okay, great, let's go with that. How DO we expect the Iraqis to do so, so we may leave?
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Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 40):
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Thatll be Pres. Bush.

What was that about?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
jaysit
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 41):
Jaysit, it's a shame you can't understand that we fight them there or here, take your pick, they are not going away no matter what we do.

Duh.

Do you understand what I'm saying here? I'm saying that we broke it, so now we fix it. And that means sticking around for the foreseeable future. Iraq will be a tinderbox for the next 50 years, and will implode if a US presence is not guaranteed. Its only chance is to be a vassal state of the United States with full US protection. For however long it takes.

Sending in an additional 20,000 troops isn't going to cut it. Even the Pentagon said that it needed at least 37,000. What will cut it, is acknowledging our long term presence in Iraq and providing the long term funding for it. Everyone in Congress and the White House knows that. They just can't say it for fear of losing, say, 20 million votes in the next election.

I say, why 20,000 troops? Bring on as many as we need. While we're at it, we may as well get rid of Sadr and his band of thugs too. Nancy Pelosi may cluck her disapproval and while cringing may burst into a botox bomb, but there's precious little she can do about it.

At this point, we can't afford another Vietnam, especially in a world where power centers are shifting. If that were to happen, the future of an activist US foreign policy would be dead in the water.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):

What was that about?

It appears he was saying you were disrespectful for calling the president Mr. Bush.
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Falcon84
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 46):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):

What was that about?

It appears he was saying you were disrespectful for calling the president Mr. Bush.

 Yeah sure

I've always called him either "Mr. Bush", or "The President", or "President Bush". All, as far as I'm concerned, signify respect for him and the office he holds.

Jeez Louise.
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jaysit
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 43):
Quoting RJdxer (Reply 41):
That's not the question, the question is how do we expect the Iraqis to?

Okay, great, let's go with that. How DO we expect the Iraqis to do so, so we may leave?

Carpet bomb the country with copies of Playboy featuring hot, naked middle eastern babes.

They'll be too distracted to fight.

(I'm sure Lebanese women will do their bit to promote peace in the Middle East. Maybe even a hot Israeli or two)
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Throwing Tepid Support To Mr. Bush's Iraq Strategy

Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 48):
Carpet bomb the country with copies of Playboy featuring hot, naked middle eastern babes.

 rotfl   thumbsup 

I'm so glad you're back.
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